I really need help .

[witsend]

I've read posts for several weeks, I really am at wits end. My problem is a familiar one. Almost twenty years my ago wife revealed she had an affair. No details, just told me she cheated. In short I stayed because I love her and we had three beautiful daughters. I almost had a nervous breakdown (nausea, dizziness, weight loss) constantly imagining her with another man. I asked and asked her about the affair and she always refused to answer. Periodically I would go through bouts of anger and frustration begging her to talk to me and after much weeping whaling and knashing of teeth she would blurt out some detail. I figured out who the other man was several years ago and he is a scum bag, a sorry excuse for a human being. And my wife had sex with him for six months, a fact she blurted out during one of my episodes. Several times a year I go through times when it literally jumps all over me and I experience anger, frustration and hurt. I don't believe time heals all wounds. Mine are better, but not healed. When I do asked her why or tell her I would have done anything to save our marriage if she had only told me, she states that there is nothing I could have done. I have been non-disruptive as much as I could, my daughters and our friends are unaware of the affair and it will remain so. I need to resolve it, I am tired of the periodic way I feel. I sometimes get angry when I hear her cast judgment on anyone else who has committed adultery. I still want answers and resolution, she has told me she would give her right arm if it never came up again. I know nobody should be reminded of their inappropriate and selfish behavior forever ( I don't believe anyone should call an affair or infidelity a mistake, a mistake is made when in light of all the information a person has the outcome is incorrect. Like choosing the wrong tool for a job. Affairs in my opinion are selfish acts with a devastating effect on the other spouse.) and I would like some peace of mind. We have a good marriage but I still struggle and I am at my wits end asking for help and advice.

 

My Issues

I want to know where, when, what and why? Should I still feel that way after all this time?

 

I wrestle with whether I am over reacting and should be over it. Again should I still feel this way after all this time?

 

I don't believe we were ever truly reconciled. Without all the details I feel like I could never make a real informed decision as to whether I would have stayed or not.

 

I wonder if she ever really felt how devastated I was and how much it hurt me. I think her behavior is selfish, in the past when I pressed her for answers she also stated she was protecting herself, but what about me?

 

I am open to any advice, any advice. Thanks in advance for any help and hope.

Edited May 23, 2010 by witsend

[DadofTwoGirls]

Say she came clean and told you all the 'details'...what good would that do?..you'd have just as many questions as you do now..she admitted it when she should have took it to her grave..that was her biggest mistake..but she told you...it is you who has refused to 'get over it' after all these years..what a waste of time...in 20 yrs from now..I hope you aren't asking the same questions...go get professional help...yes a PA might be a selfish act for some...but for others it is a MISTAKE!!

[Iconoclast]

My Issues

I want to know where, when, what and why? Should I still feel that way after all this time?

 

Yes you should. Because even the smallest problems lead you right back to thinnking about this. It's no way to live.

 

 

I wrestle with whether I am over reacting and should be over it. Again should I still feel this way after all this time?

 

You will never get over it, but if she respected you, it is her responsibility to do anything necessary to help you get better. She broke you.

 

 

I don't believe we were ever truly reconciled. Without all the details I feel like I could never make a real informed decision as to whether I would have stayed or not.

 

Yup

 

I wonder if she ever really felt how devastated I was and how much it hurt me. I think her behavior is selfish, in the past when I pressed her for answers she also stated she was protecting herself, but what about me?

 

Yup again

 

 

Some answers above in bold.

 

You have every right to feel the way you do. What you are feeling is normal.

It's probably time to seize power, be strong. Perhaps it's time to gently and unemotionally (important) inform her of the hurt she has caused, and you are not willing to go on like this anymore. Tell the truth, or it's over. Don't know your situation that well, but it may be the only leverage you have.

 

That said.

This happened 20 years ago, when did you find out?

How did you find out?

How old are your children now?

Could you be ok without her?

[Spark1111]

Many counselors disagree on whether the details should be disclosed or not.

 

But to the extent that you need to know them, then she should have divulged all that you needed to heal from her affair.

 

Many times, the WS feels shame or remorse and does want to sweep it all under the rug and go forward.

 

That too is a normal WS reaction. It is also somewhat selfish too.

 

So is having an affair.

 

You may never get what you need from your spouse. She may never divulge the details. She may not remember too many of them after this length of time has passed.

 

Does she reassure you when you are in pain? Show compassion? Say something promising or apologetic?

 

Or is she rigid, defensive and somewhat angry when asked?

 

What I do not like in your post, is the unfair power dynamic that is still playing out all these years later.

 

By withholding information that you so desperately need, she is exercising some power and control over you, your decisions and your choices.

 

You have two choices: Let it go, or not.

 

Try to find a GOOD Marriage Counselor. Maybe that will help the both of you.

 

Good luck.

[witsend]

Some answers above in bold.

 

You have every right to feel the way you do. What you are feeling is normal.

It's probably time to seize power, be strong. Perhaps it's time to gently and unemotionally (important) inform her of the hurt she has caused, and you are not willing to go on like this anymore. Tell the truth, or it's over. Don't know your situation that well, but it may be the only leverage you have.

 

That said.

This happened 20 years ago, when did you find out?

How did you find out?

How old are your children now?

Could you be ok without her?

 

She told me about 18 years ago

Again She told me.

30, 27, 25

I love her, it would be hard to think of life without her.

[witsend]

Does she reassure you when you are in pain? Show compassion? Say something promising or apologetic?

 

Or is she rigid, defensive and somewhat angry when asked?

Good luck.

Rigid, defensive and angry. I can't recall compassion. What would you call promising?

[Iconoclast]

Well, are you ready to make some waves? Chances are good you'll hurt more than you have become used to. Are you prepared to invoke the nuclear option?

 

Can you forgive her, let it go and move forward with happiness?

-or -

Do you HAVE to know?

 

Cause if that's the case, there's a possibility you will not be together anymore.

 

Worth thinking about.

 

Prepare yourself.

[samsungxoxo]

She told you about it 18 years ago (assuming it's been worked-out) and you're still asking the same questions today? The simple solution was to file for divorce at the time but you chose to stay with her and go through all those migraines.... your call.

 

She made a terrible choice having an affair but you also decided to slowly consume your youth with jealousy, anger, bitterness and depression. I don't quite understand how anyone can live like that for 18 years.

 

I think IC (individual counseling) would benefit you before this further festers within you.

[Cinnamon2000]

Rigid, defensive and angry. I can't recall compassion. What would you call promising?

 

IF she is still rigid, defensive and angy, it means that she is not truly sorry. Which also means that she has had more than that one affair and just didn't tell you about it. It also could mean that since she is not rependent and not truly remorseful, she could do it again if the right "man" comes along at the right time and mood.

[jnj express]

Here is the deal, IMHO in your case YOU WILL NEVER HEAL, till you have ALL the info. about her A. down to the tiniest detail, from beginning to end. All you are getting is the trickle truth she allows you to have. You must still be imagining things, and you don't want anything left to the imagination.

 

You handled the whole situation wrong in the beginning, and it keeps haunting you.

 

You let her stay in control---you were cheated on, and you forgave her immediately, and obviously implemented no boundaries, so basically you slid the A. under the rug.

 

You needed to play hardball, lay out strict boundaries, and have some sort of closure for yourself----none of that has happened.

 

I know it is years late in coming---but have your long awaited confrontation----tell her you want all the details--let her know she has hurt you deeply, let her know even now, you want her showing proper remorse, not her "gloss it over attitude"----Just do it---she won't like it, but so what, she isn't gonna leave you, she isn't gonna start over with someone else. You need to get it all out, so you can heal and satisfy yourself that nothing more exists, and you have handled the situation to YOUR satisfaction.

 

This may not be the end of it for you----for some it never ever really goes away, unless you leave the cheater---but at least you should try to clear the air for your own sanity.

[Iconoclast]

I didn't mean to imply that she WOULD leave you. But a confrontation with someone who has been this difficult.. it's a possibility. You must logically explore all the potential outcomes, all her potential responses, and have a strategy to counter each. It's like chess, play a few moves ahead for all the potential paths.

[whichwayisup]

she has told me she would give her right arm if it never came up again.

 

She has never really owned up to it, taken responsibility and been completely honest with you..That's why you feel the way you feel. Her dismissing your feelings isn't helping either, even now she's still doing it. Hoping you'll forget and leave her alone so she doesn't have know about your pain.

 

She's selfish and what she's done all those years, even now, is gaslighting you.

 

Marriage counselling is the way to go. I hope she'll go with you.

 

Sorry you're hurting.

[You Go Girl]

Gotta disagree with most of the posters here. Usually I would agree with what they said, when the A was in the recent past, but NOT 20 years ago.

She gets angry when questioned because she feels frustrated that you never let it go.

She doesn't want this person, doesn't want a divorce, doesn't want an affair. She realized that she made the wrong choice years ago, and she doesn't understand why you don't let it go.

You do need IC. Not MC. You need to understand why you don't let it go. What you will probably come to realize is that you haven't accepted that past, that you haven't accepted that there was a point in your marriage when she was able to hide something so significant from you, and that you couldn't read the signs.

Talk to the counselor about that. That you can't believe that you couldnt' read the signs. That it makes you afraid that no one can be trusted.

The truth is that 20 years ago, your wife was considering leaving you. She found a man, screwed around, and then found that not only was the grass not greener on the other side of the fence, but that that grass was crab grass.

Your wife chose YOU.

Now you need to chose HER, not the details of some long ago stupid thing she did.

Ask her this, for your reassurance--ask her if she loves you more or less than 20 years ago. Don't bring it up.

The details will do nothing but give you images for your head to go crazy over, images that you will focus on, yet she doesn't focus on at all anymore, and I bet she never wants to remember the details anymore. So what good is it going to do putting those images in your head? Then you'll be thinking about them all the time, when she would prefer to never think about them again! Why doesn't she want to think about those images? Because she realized that they were shyte, utter bs, a pretend romance, and crap, and worth NOTHING.

Now it's time for you to realize that that's what it was too.

[Mombot]

If you need counseling for insecurities, go. I do not see what good details about an affair will do you. If you can't see yourself without her, you already have your answer and don't need help. Treasure the day you're in. At least she was honest with you about her A.

[michaelhopes]

This is a very rare situation

If this was 20 years ago and youre pretty sure NOTHING like this has happened since I would let it go......

If NOTHING has happened since, she is loyal to you and wised up......

That 6 month duration is the kick in the ass......

I'm guessing this happened during your teens and early 20's

The reality is most people in their teens and early twenties are sluts and douche bags......It seems she grew out of that "stupid period" in her life and did not continue the stupid behavior.

I wont respond or even read posts from the younger crowd because theyre neck deep in stupid and if you expect love or loyalty youre fooling yourself.

[JAGeezer]

Your wife needs to come to terms with the fact that this isn't a "you problem". It's an "us problem"...but it's an "us problem" that she created with the A, and exacerbated with her cowardice on the issue of disclosure. Of course you can't let the d**n thing go. She never gave you any information beyond bare bones that would allow you closure and a chance to heal. God, what a gutless wonder. And she castigates others for her own failing to boot? She gets bonus points for hypocrisy.

 

Okay, a couple of questions. Did you promise to forgive her? I mean, did she say "I'm sorry"? And did you explicitly state your forgiveness? If so, you're ethically screwed. Because, lack of information or no, you've surrendered your right to keep badgering her about it. How you may feel about it is irrelevant to the A's impact on your relationship. You've surrendered your rights in the matter. You either have to let it go, live with it, or let her go.

 

However, from what information you've given us, it sounds like she blew you off and simply expected you to ignore what she'd done, which is a load of crap. No wonder you're still a mess.

 

My friend, where you're at is no way to live. It's masochistic on your part and borders on depraved indifference on your W's part.

 

So you're going to have to make some choices.

 

Either you're going to have to accept the status quo, and with the help of some IC learn to live with it better than you currently are.

 

Or you're going to have to sit your W down for a Come to Jesus meeting and the two of you will have to get into MC like you should have done 20 years ago.

 

OR you're going to have to bite the bullet and retain a lawyer. In fact you may have to do that anyway to get your W's attention on the problem.

 

Like I said, where you're at now is no way to live.

 

*****************************************

 

For the record, calling an A a "mistake" is blame-shifting nonsense. The ultimate in moral cowardice. It's trying to duck some or all of the responsibility for a reasoned choice. It's labeling it an "oops". A minor deviation that could happen to anybody. Phooey. An A is ALWAYS an informed choice on the part of both parties involved. They are not there at gunpoint. They are not under duress. They have the right to say no at any point in the process. They simply choose not to. There's no mistake when you do something deliberately. If there's a mistake made, it lies in thinking that you'll get away with it when the statistics make it almost certain that, sooner or later, you'll get caught.

 

JAG

Edited May 25, 2010 by JAGeezer

[You Go Girl]

This is a very rare situation

If this was 20 years ago and youre pretty sure NOTHING like this has happened since I would let it go......

If NOTHING has happened since, she is loyal to you and wised up......

That 6 month duration is the kick in the ass......

I'm guessing this happened during your teens and early 20's

The reality is most people in their teens and early twenties are sluts and douche bags......It seems she grew out of that "stupid period" in her life and did not continue the stupid behavior.

I wont respond or even read posts from the younger crowd because theyre neck deep in stupid and if you expect love or loyalty youre fooling yourself.

 

Exactly. Even if she was near 30 years old.

Think of it this way OP--what if your mom came up to you and was still upset over something you did as a child? Yeah, I know, she wasn't a child. But it was that long ago, she's not that person anymore.

[JustJoe]

Witsend, normally I wouldn't advise this but your case is extreme. Either you find some way to let the images and questions go, or have a revenge affair of your own, and tell her . More than the questions you have, is her unyielding sense of empowerment over you by not ever providing any answers. You are late at the post, but you need to take that power away from her, and show her you aren't the weakling she now thinks you are.

[jnj express]

Hey YouGoGirl-----It isn't quite as simple as you wanna make it out to be-----You can't walk in his shoes------

 

You don't live with his torment and visions---I don't know what your story is, but it is not his exact story, so to tell him that it was a long time ago, and to forget it doesn't work.

 

In his case something is triggering him, every so often, and yes he needs to deal with the cause of the trigger, but he also lives with the situation that everytime he sees his wife, he sees the other guy with her, and he can't handle it.

 

Some get over an A., others do not---nothing is cut and dry.

[TaraMaiden]

Actually, it really is simple.

you either put the cr*p down, or you insist on continuing to carry it.

 

I'm completely with YouGoGirl.

Hell, this is a lifetime ago.

If he hasn't let go of this, it's been transformed from an "us" problem into an "OP" problem.

He's raised a whole family, lived a full and varied life, held a job and maintained a household - and he's still not past this?

 

He needs serious help - and fast.

"This isn't healthy" doesn't cover it.

This is abnormal, and I'm astonished the OP hasn't acted on it before now.

 

You see, if a person has an affair, and it all comes out and the couple decide to build on it and continue functioning together - it takes work on both sides to re-establish a balance.

She's had three children with him, and they've stayed together.

If he's still stuck 18 years back, then not moving on is entirely HIS responsibility, not hers.

[JustJoe]

Tara, the kids happened before the A, and this OP isn't sure that it hasn't happened again. Also his wife hasn't completely come clean about the A ever. I agree that it's been a long time, I don't agree that it's all his fault, that this issue isn't behind them. If his wife was more understanding and forth coming, instead of controlling, this likely wouldn't be happening now.

[JRoy]

I am in a very similar situation. It has bothered me for years. I stumbled into this web site and was surprised by what I found here. I will post more as I get more comfortable with the idea of sharing.

I am posting this mostly to let witsend know that there is a least one other person out here who has 'some' understanding of how he feels.

[Church Bells]

Put me down as a BH that insisted on knowing ALL of the details ... I understand that others view this differently ... but I simply refused to allow my W and OM to share any secret memories between just the two of them.

 

Personally, the length of time is irrelevant. The OP's W is keeping pertinent information from her H, and continues to disregard and dismiss his feelings/wishes on the matter.

 

However, at this late date, there is a good chance that his WW is prepared to take this information to her grave, and the OP needs to simply look deep within himself to see if this is the hill he is willing to die on with regard to his M. It's up to him at this point, but I couldn't fault him for drawing a line in the dirt and insisting on all details or be willing to take her refusal as a sign of her continued disrespect and move on with my life now that his daughters are grown.

[lonestar190]

I wanted the details because I was so focused on the 'why' of when my gf cheated.

 

I had to understand why so I could start believing that it would not happen again. The details themselves can help answer this question.

 

If you are struggling with the why still, I would not see it going away.

[rewe4reel]

I've read posts for several weeks, I really am at wits end. My problem is a familiar one. Almost twenty years my ago wife revealed she had an affair. No details, just told me she cheated.

 

No details = not acceptable because she is keeping secrets from you.

 

 

 

 

In short I stayed because I love her and we had three beautiful daughters. I almost had a nervous breakdown (nausea, dizziness, weight loss) constantly imagining her with another man.

 

Even "after" the affair--assuming you could really know it was over with--your wife willfully continued to emotionally injure you by keeping her affair secrets from you. You almost had a nervous breakdown yet she ignored your needs to keep her dirty little secrets. Pure selfishness on her part.

 

 

 

I asked and asked her about the affair and she always refused to answer.

 

She disrespected you and emotionally abused you. "Always."

 

 

 

Periodically I would go through bouts of anger and frustration begging her to talk to me and after much weeping whaling and knashing of teeth she would blurt out some detail.

 

She tortured you with trickle truth down through the years. Each new revelation is like a new "d day." Your recovery clock starts from "zero" with each new revelation.

 

 

 

I figured out who the other man was several years ago and he is a scum bag, a sorry excuse for a human being.

 

Wow! Just wow!!!! She actually refused to identify the guy to you for what--10, 15 years???? During all that time she was protecting this guy. At your expense. OF COURSE you could not even START TO HEAL if she WAS PROTECTING THE OTHER MAN at YOUR EXPENSE. She didn't want the OM to suffer any consequences of the affair. SHE DIDN'T TELL YOU WHO HE WAS ALL THIS TIME, BECAUSE IN HER MIND AND IN HER HEART, HE WAS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOU. So the pain she inflicted by the actual affair was continued and multiplied all these years.

 

IGNORE those who are telling you to "forget it," it's "old news," "history."

 

It's not any of those things. Your wife has severely emotionally abused you throughout this entire time period. It didn't "end" 20 years ago when the affair itself ended (you hope). The end of the affair was just the beginning of her emotional abuse of you.

 

 

 

And my wife had sex with him for six months, a fact she blurted out during one of my episodes.

 

Most likely a lie/minimization by your wife. For all you know she could have had this affair going on for years. Since she kept his identity a secret from you until relatively recently the affair could have been continuing for all that time. Even if not physically, then emotionally, through periodic personal and telecommunications contact.

 

I would definitely suspect that the affair did NOT end 20 years ago. (Sorry bro I know it hurts bad.) The ONLY reason not to divulge his identity to you was so she could maintain contact where and when she wanted to.

 

 

 

Several times a year I go through times when it literally jumps all over me and I experience anger, frustration and hurt. I don't believe time heals all wounds. Mine are better, but not healed.

 

Frankly I would be amazed that anyone subjected to what your wife has done to you, would have been able to do any healing at all.

 

 

When I do asked her why or tell her I would have done anything to save our marriage if she had only told me, she states that there is nothing I could have done.

 

Wow. She's completely remorseless. No doubt at all in my mind you only know a fraction of what she's done affair-wise, the minimum she thought she could confess to you. There is much much more that she hasn't told you.

 

 

I have been non-disruptive as much as I could, my daughters and our friends are unaware of the affair and it will remain so.

 

Expose it. Take your life back and take your power back. Expose it. Your daughters are adults. You are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome my friend. Afraid to do what needs to be done because you fear public humiliation. Your wife has taken full advantage of your fear.

 

 

 

I need to resolve it, I am tired of the periodic way I feel. I sometimes get angry when I hear her cast judgment on anyone else who has committed adultery.

 

The only way to resolve it is to put your foot down. First you expose it. To your daughters; your friends; your families; the OM's wife/family; to everyone. You gave your wife more than enough chance to make things right, 20 years, and she's never even tried.

 

Then you tell your wife she must disclose ALL of it. ALL of it. Once and for all. All the love letters; all the emails; all the records; all the dirty little keepsakes that she probably has saved in a shoebox in the closet somewhere. EVERYTHING. She must write it down.

 

And to ensure you are finally getting the truth, you insist on a polygraph test. A thorough one. And to put the cherry on top of the cake, you see a divorce attorney, and have a divorce complaint drafted. And you take the power in your relationship and tell that wife of yours if she does NOT do everything you demand, you will file for divorce. And then go ahead and do it.

 

Call this b*tch's bluff. After all this time, call it. If she wants you, really wants you, then she has to respect you. And the ONLY way she will have a possibility of respecting you is by you showing her that you actually mean business this time. No crying, no shouting, no nervous breakdowns. DIVORCE.

 

And don't be afraid of her wanting a divorce. Because if she'll divorce you rather than tell you the truth, you don't want to be married to her. She's been cheating you one way or another for at least the past 20 years anyway.

 

Give her a chance to be a wife to you, after 20 years. And if not, set yourself (and her) free.

 

 

 

 

 

I still want answers and resolution, she has told me she would give her right arm if it never came up again.

 

She is DEFINITELY holding back on you, big time, with respect to "affair stuff" that's she's managed to conceal from you all this time. She knows that everytime she talks about it she risks blurting out something new that she's never told you before.

 

THAT'S why you CAN'T HEAL.

 

 

 

I know nobody should be reminded of their inappropriate and selfish behavior forever ( I don't believe anyone should call an affair or infidelity a mistake, a mistake is made when in light of all the information a person has the outcome is incorrect.

 

Dude, she protected her OM at your expense until only a few years ago. She wouldn't even disclose his identity!!! WTF. You have to assume she was still having sex with him, or at least still in contact with him, all that time. And that's a best case scenario.

 

 

 

Like choosing the wrong tool for a job. Affairs in my opinion are selfish acts with a devastating effect on the other spouse.) and I would like some peace of mind. We have a good marriage but I still struggle and I am at my wits end asking for help and advice.

 

You are a victim in an emotionally abusive relationship and you have been taking this abuse for 20 years and continue to be abused at the present time, by your wife.

 

 

 

My Issues

I want to know where, when, what and why? Should I still feel that way after all this time?

 

Yes absolutely. Your wife has got you so turned around that you're not even asking the right question, which should be: "Should my wife be entitled to keep secrets about her affair from me for 20 years?" You can "feel" anyway you like about it, and so can she. But you are ENTITLED to the INFORMATION about her affair, the full information, so YOU CAN MAKE an INFORMED DECISION about the future state of your marriage. Such as whether it should end.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wrestle with whether I am over reacting and should be over it. Again should I still feel this way after all this time?

 

Again my brother, where ever did you get the idea that you are not entitled to your own feelings? From your wife. From your emotionally abusive, remorseless, cheating, unrepentant wife. She has kept you down for 20 years.

 

 

 

I don't believe we were ever truly reconciled.

 

That's because your wife has never stopped lying to you including lying by omission/concealing info from you. She's been lying/concealing to you for the entire past 20 years. How can you reconcile when she hasn't ever stopped lying to you?

 

 

 

Without all the details I feel like I could never make a real informed decision as to whether I would have stayed or not.

 

Now you've got it. SHE knows that too. That's why she's been keeping you in the dark. It might be much much MUCH worse than you have imagined. (It usually is in these cases.) Most likely she continued cheating with the OM at least until she identified him to you, but maybe they just took the affair underground.

 

 

 

I wonder if she ever really felt how devastated I was and how much it hurt me.

 

She knew, but she simply didn't care. She still doesn't care. She's a cheater. A liar. A user.

 

 

 

I think her behavior is selfish, in the past when I pressed her for answers she also stated she was protecting herself, but what about me?

 

 

Right. She was protecting herself. From the consequences of her actions. As in, divorce. Since she is afraid of getting divorced, that's how you get what you want/need from her. Simply tell her if she doesn't tell ALL, backed up by a polygraph, she will DEFINITELY be a divorced woman come this time next year. CALL THE BLUFF. And if it's not a bluff, you don't want to be married to her, anyway. Dude it's eating you alive, but that's not because there's anything "wrong" with you. You're married to a harpy.

 

I am open to any advice, any advice. Thanks in advance for any help and hope.

 

I hope you meant you are open to any advice and don't get all defensive/in denial. You're in a deep hole here because 20 years have passed.

 

But every journey starts with the first step. Hopefully yours will be to a real reconciliation, but if not, that will totally be within your wife's hands--whether or not she actually finally wants to be a real wife to you. Her choice. You just have to establish what the consequences will be if she continues her 20-year pattern of remorseless emotional abuse towards you.

 

Good luck.