wheelwright Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 ... their love for their WS is triggered by DDay and really in their actions and hearts it wasn't there before? My BH has. Is this kind of 'loss love' something to base a future on? Is it real? Is it an awakening or just possessiveness? Is it the same as falling in love again? I am wondering because I thought love was generous, and thinking your loved one loved another meant you should 'set them free'. But many BSs think that the new love is a delusion. Is it you they love, or is it fear of change motivating them? If they could go many years without loving you apart from kind of being around and having sex, why does the fear of loss make them want you so bad? Is this a good thing; a) if we want love to be the most important value? b) if we think M and commitment is?
Author wheelwright Posted May 22, 2010 Author Posted May 22, 2010 Blameshifting anyone? No, sincerely interested. I was reading recently about 'loss love' not being real, and I wondered what people thought.
califnan Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 No, sincerely interested. I was reading recently about 'loss love' not being real, and I wondered what people thought. ------------------ I posted in your other thread in reference to my thoughts on this (#161).. If you wish me to repost here, I will .. or perhaps my other post was more than enough ...
Author wheelwright Posted May 23, 2010 Author Posted May 23, 2010 ------------------ I posted in your other thread in reference to my thoughts on this (#161).. If you wish me to repost here, I will .. or perhaps my other post was more than enough ... Yes I read other reply, and I get your stance. I totally get it. And people often have the same response through values, whether they believe in God or not. I get it.
califnan Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 Yes I read other reply, and I get your stance. I totally get it. And people often have the same response through values, whether they believe in God or not. I get it. --------------------- I'm trying to illustrate that the "institution of marriage" is reverenced - and what you and your husband had - as a result of marriage - is of the utmost of importance - before all other.. The world is a world of new beginnings.. Also, with those new beginnings - there are new problems..
Author wheelwright Posted May 23, 2010 Author Posted May 23, 2010 --------------------- I'm trying to illustrate that the "institution of marriage" is reverenced - and what you and your husband had - as a result of marriage - is of the utmost of importance - before all other.. The world is a world of new beginnings.. Also, with those new beginnings - there are new problems.. When I married the prime directives in me were; I loved him, I didn't want to hurt him, I wanted kids. But the latter two were the stronger instincts. When I searched for love poems for the ceremony I couldn't find a single one that didn't ring false. But I had already agreed to marry him at this point, and saw it as a quirk of our relationship. I now see it as a reflection of the love being non-romantic. It was appreciative, compassionate etc. (We had been together 8 years by then already). A friend recently told me her 8 year old daughter was asking about the morality about promises. This mother told her daughter that yes, you should keep your promises. And we all agree I'm sure. But there is the special case when we shouldn't have made the promise in the first place. Like if I promise to kill someone. It's a promise I may later rescind without feeling too bad, except that I made a bad promise. Certainly I should not keep that covenant. So if staying married to someone means your own emotional death, it really isn't clear how you should behave. But it is clear that some promises shouldn't be kept. You have to evaluate the value of the promise, very fully.
reboot Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 My love for my WS wasn't triggered by anything, it had never left. My WS never loved the OP, but I would have set her free if she had. I'm not entirely sure what your point is.
Author wheelwright Posted May 23, 2010 Author Posted May 23, 2010 My love for my WS wasn't triggered by anything, it had never left. My WS never loved the OP, but I would have set her free if she had. I'm not entirely sure what your point is. OK I'll die a quiet death. No but, in some Rs, the A, possible loss, rather famously makes people rededicate with enthusiasm. Still. I totally get the gist of you post, if you were being subtle.
DadofTwoGirls Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 what does WS,BH..stand for..and does BS mean what I think it means?.
jennie-jennie Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 I think when something is taken away from someone, they recognize what it meant to them and do not want to lose it. It becomes valuable, because they do not want less than they had. My exSO never really figured out if he wanted to commit to me or not during the 25 years we were together. Once MM pulled me away from him, he was suddenly sure. My needs were not met in my relationship with my exSO. That is why my MM could pull me away. I had throughout the years tried to make my SO understand this, but he was satisfied with what we had. This is the key here: He was satisfied with what we had! When he lost this, he wanted it back. Suddenly he went from total satisfaction to having lost what he suddenly realized he valued. He had felt so secure that what he had he would never lose, so he had not realized that by not meeting my needs he was eventually prone to lose me. It is 3 years since I ended it with him, and I understood in a discussion just recently that he would take me back at any given moment. And what would happen then? How quickly would he be back in his old security and his old comfortableness? How long would it take for my needs not to be met again?
Woggle Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 Love was the last thing I felt when my ex wandered. It was the catalyst for me to finally leave which I was thinking about before. People who try to make it work with cheaters have no self respect.
jennie-jennie Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 what does WS,BH..stand for..and does BS mean what I think it means?. Check the thread "LS Terminology" at the top of the Other Woman/Other Man forum.
whichwayisup Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 what does WS,BH..stand for..and does BS mean what I think it means?. BS betrayed spouse, WS/CS wandering spouse/cheating spouse. BH betrayed husband, BW betrayed wife.
dreamingoftigers Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 Love was the last thing I felt when my ex wandered. It was the catalyst for me to finally leave which I was thinking about before. People who try to make it work with cheaters have no self respect. I feel that I could not respect myself if I do not do all that I can to save my marriage even if I go through pain for awhile over it. I cannot just drop having a healthy family for my daughter. I need to be able to look in the mirror at the end of this road and say that I did all that I could.
bentnotbroken Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 Love was the last thing I felt when my ex wandered. It was the catalyst for me to finally leave which I was thinking about before. People who try to make it work with cheaters have no self respect. I too chose to leave, but I am not sure those who wish to recover lack self respect. I think maybe they see something that I did not in WS. It is a tough row to hoe either way.
bentnotbroken Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 I feel that I could not respect myself if I do not do all that I can to save my marriage even if I go through pain for awhile over it. I cannot just drop having a healthy family for my daughter. I need to be able to look in the mirror at the end of this road and say that I did all that I could. I think that no matter what path you choose, you need be able to say this when you look in the mirror.
Chrome Barracuda Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 ...this whole thread is a bunch of crap. WS's have a choice. it is a choice to cheat. Whether the marriage is good or bad. You make the choices in life!!! no one pushes you to do anything. no one forces a gun in your mouth to have sex with someone else. in the end your choices is what you have chosen for yourself and the situations your in. Ws's need to understand that even if the BS's is not meeting certain needs it rests upon your to let them know! also remember no one can read your mind. So if you cheat it was your own choice. dont blame others for you screwing someone else. the OM/OW didnt put a gun to your head! it was all your decision. OWN IT!
2sunny Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 stop it wheel. just stop. you are holding on to the past so tight you could never possibly move forward. your poor H. HE is the victim. he is because YOU keep bringing up the past - living in it - wallowing in it all. stop. or let your H walk away from the past that you keep stirring up. note to you - people cannot heal if they continue to think about the past this much. look at the future - live in today. forget about the past. act like it... either embrace your H and be happy by moving forward - or be by yourself in your own isolation and misery.
crazycatlady Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 ... their love for their WS is triggered by DDay and really in their actions and hearts it wasn't there before? My BH has. Is this kind of 'loss love' something to base a future on? Is it real? Is it an awakening or just possessiveness? Is it the same as falling in love again? I am wondering because I thought love was generous, and thinking your loved one loved another meant you should 'set them free'. But many BSs think that the new love is a delusion. Is it you they love, or is it fear of change motivating them? If they could go many years without loving you apart from kind of being around and having sex, why does the fear of loss make them want you so bad? Is this a good thing; a) if we want love to be the most important value? b) if we think M and commitment is? I think this is a very interesting question. And it was something I did ponder a great deal. Not this past time - because my feelings and emotions had not changed, my behavior had not changed. But a few years ago we went through a very bad period and he came close to having a ONS, he only stopped because he couldn't bring himself to have sex in our bed with another person, he couldn't do that to me and he knew then we had to talk that it got to that point. When we talked, and seperation was talked about, and how we would handle kids etc, I was shocked to realize we had gotten to that point. Kids made it so easy to take things for granted between the two of us. We were both guilty of it, but I was more guilty then he was then. I let life overwhelm US. I didn't nurture us. And I'm embaressed to admit this, but I was also rather shrewish too. He doesn't get a walk either. He stopped even trying in bed to please me, instead it became he got off and then I got off with my own hand and sometimes he would play with a boob to help. Which didn't help our sex life at all. But when it hit us that we weren't happy, which is what his almost ONS showed him, and then me....And during our seperation talk which was done very calmly actually, we both realized that we did still love each other. It took us about two years to really get things back on track. Sometimes I do think it is a possessiveness. A lot of the times I think it is. And even this time, I questioned myself a lot about it. My behavior before the affair was fine this time, but during the affair his behavior changed which caused my behavior to change and by the time I found out, truly found out not just had a gut feeling, things weren't very good again. So I question myself long and hard about it. Way before I came here. And I know for myself, that it was not possessiveness but love. I'm not afraid to be alone. I like being alone and sometimes feel selfish and wish I had more alone time and just me to look out for and not everyone else and man my life would sure be easier.....but it would be awful grey without him to color it up. I was willing to let him go if that was what he wanted. I was willing to try other things as well. Because love to me does mean you want their happiness and their happiness expands your happiness. WW - I hope this answers your question. Which I do feel was honestly meant because it was one I asked myself a few times. CCL
PhoenixRise Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 ... their love for their WS is triggered by DDay and really in their actions and hearts it wasn't there before? My BH has. Is this kind of 'loss love' something to base a future on? Is it real? Is it an awakening or just possessiveness? Is it the same as falling in love again? I am wondering because I thought love was generous, and thinking your loved one loved another meant you should 'set them free'. But many BSs think that the new love is a delusion. Is it you they love, or is it fear of change motivating them? If they could go many years without loving you apart from kind of being around and having sex, why does the fear of loss make them want you so bad? Is this a good thing; a) if we want love to be the most important value? b) if we think M and commitment is? I don't understand this. I really don't. If the WS believes the new love is NOT a delusion and they want to move on either to be with the new love or just because the marriage is no longer enough....they are free....they can move on, divorce, leave anytime they want. Are you suggesting the BS should be happy about the new love? Are you suggesting the BS should do the heavy lifting to facilitate the new love by filing for a divorce so the WS doesn't have to? IMO it doesn't matter much whether the M and commitment is valued or if love is more valued by the BS....If the WS has decided that M and commitment and love can not exist in the same space, then THEY have to decide what is more important to them and live their life accordingly.
seren Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 (edited) I don't know how OW/OM think most D Days go down, I have never been one, but I imagine they are in pain, as the BS's are if the MP leaves to be with the one they love. D Day in my house saw me asking H if he loved MW and that if he did, then he should leave - I would and could not ever knowingly share my H, or my relationship with another person. I want the person whom I choose to share my life with to love me and be with me exclusively. Had he wanted OW, I would have been unspeakably hurt, but understood. To see my H after D Day and beyond and the remorse he has shown for his actions, hurts me beyond belief. if I thought, even for a nano second it was because he was pining for 'true love' then I would rather he left. This is not so. I understand the reasons our M was going through a rocky patch, we both do. I don't understand him choosing to try and fill the void with OW, and neither does he. I would rather he had chosen to have an A OW for love, I get and understand love (it's why I don't hold ill feelings for OW), I don't get or understand hurting another, deceit or betraying our marriage. It's why I get people like Jennie (sorry jennie) because she loves the MM, I don't get him or his stance, but it's not my fight. I didn't need his money (I earn more substantially more than H), our child is grown, I don't need my H to validate me as a human being, I don't gave a toss what other people think/thought, I just want to be happy with the man I love, and I am. I most, absolutely am not weak, neither are people who choose to work through what is possibly the most fundemental betrayal of trust and love that another can inflict upon another person. I did this because I never left our M, I never chose to fix our problems by running into someone else and leaving all the crap at home. These are my experiences and of course all M's are different, all A's are different. I don't think OW/OM consider that usually D Days just aren't about them, true they are about the A's, but have more to do with the truth finally being out and both MP and BS finally being honest, looking at what went wrong and either agreeing it is not salvageble or that what was sought had been there all along and the realisation it could be lost the kick up the arse that the MP and to some extents the BS needed to break out of the destructive treadmill that a lot of M's go through and work on it - together. For MP that are in love with OP, then they leave. Choosing to work on the M, is a time for establishing boundaries, making new ones, fixing what went wrong, rediscovering each other with the blinkers off, lots and lots of making up, screaming, shouting, making up, clinging like limpets to each other - not for fear they will leave, but to reassure each other that it is OK to cling. It is rarely said that when MP leave M's for A's that they are weak, rather they are coming through with promises made to the OP, same goes for R after D day (acronym heaven this post). I feel for the pain people go through on D Day and the seeking of answers to why not me? But it is futile, the fault, if any does not lie with them, it is with the person who chose to fix problems with a lie. Just MHO, but MY reality. Edited May 23, 2010 by seren Typos (it's 5 in the morning in UK)
pureinheart Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 WW ((((hugs)))) You must be one heck of a lady to have a H that would back you the way he has...men aren't stupid and it says a lot for you. Men have an understanding about things that I don't think some women do. Coming from one who is FAR from perfect, one who screws up ALL of the time, there were many things I had to "come clean" with in many R's. There was only one time in a R that I came clean with something and was called everything but human (it wasn't cheating BTW). With the exception of this one bad R, all of the others met me with understanding and compassion...which is more than I can say I'd give them at times. This also said a lot for me, I was worth it even with ALL of my faults...so are you WW....
pureinheart Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 Love was the last thing I felt when my ex wandered. It was the catalyst for me to finally leave which I was thinking about before. People who try to make it work with cheaters have no self respect.[/quote] Every sitch is different Woggle. Now to word this...it was my choice not to stay..but to generalise, no. I believe if a M can be saved...go for it.
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