Poss WW becoming "totally dependent" on H?

[sruben]

I have a new question I'd like to explore.

 

My poss WW is an educated and accomplished project manager with a higher earning power than I (and until last October, did earn more). She quit in October due to a "toxic environment" (so she said -- said other mgrs didn't like her, underlings didn't like her, etc). Although she never loved that job in the two+ years she had it (was always telling me she felt out of her league, but had a successful 20 month project complete on time and under budget), after June of last year (when I suspect she had an EA which I suspect was what she was mourning the loss of on June 29), her desire to leave her job quickly became desperation, followed by panic attacks (one of which landed her in the ER) and finally came to the point of her sobbing uncontrollably at home one night, telling me that she'd do ANYthing if I "let" her quit her job. First off, I wasn't forcing her to work at all, let alone there, but because of our high CC debt which she helped rack up, I can see why she might have felt the need to ask. I told her the stress wasn't worth what they were paying and sacrificing her health for, so go for it.

 

Last week we got into a fight over having separate finances which she wanted to do when she just got this new job (about 1/5 the pay, barely minimum wage, but MUCH less stress). She dropped the separate finances demand, told me she was going to change it back.

 

Here's the thing: She said at that time that she doesn't know what else to do to gain my trust, that she's done everything she can think of -- that this was the reason she quit her job to stay home: To make herself COMPLETELY dependent on me.

 

Does that make sense? Do women do that? Especially ones with her career history?

 

The historical revisionism concerns me. I actually think that she believes that. But that's not what she said back in October when she quit!

 

Can any women give me any insight into this reasoning and behavior?

[michaelhopes]

Wow.......just wow.......

I'm not a woman but here goes.........

I shoot straight from the hip and I dont miss......

Your wife is a mess......

You cannot fix your wife.....

Your wife is one of those women that lie so much that they begin to believe those continuous lies. "historical revisionism" is spot on.

Trying to reason with her will not work........

The real question is why are you questioning your own common sense?

Are you afraid of the fallout from straight out telling your wife that she is full of it......that she is a manipulative liar?

Are you afraid of losing time with your daughter?

I'm telling you right now that what you need to fear most is your daughter watching your wife pull this krap. You need to fear teaching your daughter that this krap works, You need to fear forever losing the respect of your daughter.

You need to fear forever losing your own self respect.

Start laying the foundation now.

Trust yourself Sruben

Not saying go postal or anything like that.....

Just trust what you know is true.....

[sruben]

Wow.......just wow.......

 

I remember reading other people's posts and having the same reaction you just wrote above. Wow is right...

 

I'm not a woman but here goes......... I shoot straight from the hip and I dont miss...... Your wife is a mess...... You cannot fix your wife.....

 

I think I realized that before, but good to hear it again. After three prior divorces and a lot of the baggage I've seen, I know this is right. I guess what I've been questioning the last year is if I were going crazy. No, but all the gaslighting has made me think so...but I've been listening to her and watching very closely in the last few discussions and fights. Things she says make absolutely no sense at times.

 

When I was single, and for the first year or two of our M (we're now at year 8), I used to manage the household finances out of a little box where I kept the envelopes of the various accounts. Then she gave me a small filing cabinet which fits well under my workstation desktop (and in fact there was an option to have bought one when I bought that workstation). The filing cabinet has hanging folders in it, I used all of them right away and asked her to buy me more, and she did. I also showed her where things were, especially her CC records. I also showed her where the spreadsheet is that I keep that info and gave her access to it.

 

During this last fight which started over the separate finances thing, she kept trying to equate "I told you that when I start working again, I want to be more involved with the finances, knowing where the money is going" (which I'm perfectly all right with, and want that, too -- so she'll stop spending more than we make!) to "I told you that I wanted my money going to my own account." Her justification was "Well, I don't know where you keep the financial information! I have no idea where you keep that little box..." This was late in the fight but before she decided to change her DD back to the joint account! She knows d.mn well where I keep that, she sees it every time she reaches in that drawer to get the checkbook out! She's definitely reaching. She also likes to play the victim, in case anyone's missed that conclusion from some of my previous postings.

 

Your wife is one of those women that lie so much that they begin to believe those continuous lies. "historical revisionism" is spot on.

 

I've been working under the assumption that she wasn't deliberately lying to me all this time. I now believe otherwise (unless she's just nuts and doesn't know she's lying). Question is, what to do about it? If she's deliberately lying to cover up a lifestyle of serial cheating, I will definitely divorce her. If she's nuts and truly believes she's never done anything wrong...what do I do with that? I know my dad's first wife (not my mom) was nuts, and he hung in there for many years of heartache before he finally divorced her. As a Christian, I don't know how that situation fits in with my world view. I know it destroyed his faith.

 

Trying to reason with her will not work........

 

That appears to be the case.

 

The real question is why are you questioning your own common sense?

 

Because I'm not arrogant enough to think that I have the corner market on truth, and there are still a number of things I don't know. But, I have been making efforts to fill in those gaps. I have a couple of ideas. If she finds out I'm doing them, she'll probably leave, but I'll take that as an admission of guilt in this case...

 

Are you afraid of the fallout from straight out telling your wife that she is full of it......that she is a manipulative liar?

 

Not any more. The next time we fight I'm going for that one.

 

I thought it would be this weekend, but she ended up being too tired and pretty much avoiding talking to me about anything deeper than the weather. Always seemed to have something else to do until she was exhausted and collapsed in bed. Also, she said she was still feeling sick to her stomach, which she stayed home from work for on Friday. Because of my current level of suspicion, I started using GPS on her car again. I haven't retrieved it, yet (had it there all weekend).

 

Are you afraid of losing time with your daughter?

 

Yes. However, I am slowly reconciling myself with the possibility.

 

I'm telling you right now that what you need to fear most is your daughter watching your wife pull this krap. You need to fear teaching your daughter that this krap works, You need to fear forever losing the respect of your daughter. You need to fear forever losing your own self respect.

 

I hear you. I think my biggest hangup to action to this point is not knowing what I'm dealing with. She says things, then later denies she ever said them. Then later says something else (like why she quit her job), and says I made up whatever it was I reminded her she said earlier. The incident I wrote about was not isolated.

 

Start laying the foundation now.

 

I am. I told my pastor that I've been feeling lately like I need to get an initial consultation from a lawyer, that although it's not my intention to file for divorce, I recognize that she may at any point, especially after I confront her with what I know.

 

Trust yourself Sruben Not saying go postal or anything like that..... Just trust what you know is true.....

 

I've said before that I'm not a rash man, and I am patient. I will do so.

 

I plan to see IC sometime this week (need to call their office today). I also plan to tell her I'm doing so as well...that will probably lead to the fight where I tell her that I'm not accepting the manipulation any more (like she did last time to get me to cancel IC).

 

This is all so sad. I really don't want a divorce, but I won't stay married to someone who is cheating and has no boundaries. I recently realized that she has violated one boundary we DID discuss when we got married -- that if we ever had to have lunch with a member of the opposite sex, we'd tell each other beforehand (and I always have. I think it's been necessary only three times in our 8 years of marriage -- and this despite the fact that she gave me blanket permission (which she later denied or doesn't remember) to have lunch with one particular female friend I've known for 20 year, she has come to know her too, and at one point trusted me with her. I've never taken her up on this, though, because I want to "avoid even the appearance of evil").

 

But back in Feb '09, she told me she had HAD lunch with an out of town vendor that day, that her ex-boss and boss had seen her, and then said "WE HAVE lunch maybe once a week while he's here" and he'd been here the previous week -- and she hadn't said a word. She never mentioned him again until I started asking about him sometime after our big fight last June. She also said something weird a couple of Sat's ago when our DD15 was driving us home from church. Somehow, this high-end hotel was mentioned, DD15 said something about there being a pool on the top floor, and W seemed to know about it. I asked her how she knew, and she immediately got defensive (!) and told me she'd been there several times...that she and H#2 spent their honeymoon there (okay...) and that a certain coworker from two jobs back had a membership there and she'd been up there WITH HIM! She has NEVER mentioned that before. What else hasn't she mentioned?

 

Man, if I were to go to a private pool with some OW, my W would be at the attorney's office that day! I'm sure when I ask her more questions about that (I didn't at the time because DD15 is just learning to drive and a loud argument in the car would not be conducive to her doing so safely), she'll tell me something like "but I didn't get in" or didn't have a swimsuit or whatever. Sheesh...

[sruben]

It sounds to me like when she quit the job, she didn't want to go back to work. The fact that she did go back was probably because she felt guilty about racking up the CC debt and not contributing to paying it off. The fact that she got an easier job tells me she wants to contribute, but only to the point that she's not too inconvenienced/stressed.

 

I don't see it as a dependence issue at all, but that's just me. Actually, I see it as more of a laziness issue. But this is coming from a hard working self employed business owner, so take it as you will.

 

I think you're right that she's lazy (or maybe just unmotivated) and doesn't in general want to work. However, when she IS working, she has a good work ethic, works hard, gives more than 100% and gets the job done. More dichotomy in her nature, which is weird. Well, if I could get paid to stay home somehow, I probably would, too...

 

BTW, she doesn't seem to really like this job, either. Yesterday, she was checking her monster.com account again and told me she JUST missed the deadline to apply for this one job she'd have been a good candidate for. Evidently, she'd taken 2 or 3 weeks off of following her account searches, but is now looking again, since it is now the end of the school year and people are asking if she's coming back next year. When she took this more physically demanding but mentally unchallenging job, I gave it a year at the most. Right now, I'd be surprised if she lasts the summer. Might be good for her to earn at her capability again, though. Maybe before she divorces me, she'll help me pay off all that CC debt we rolled up into the home equity loan.

 

Bwa-ha-ha! Who's nuts now? ;-)

 

Okay, calming back down, now...

[sruben]

So, does anyone else have any insights into what my wife may mean by "amking herlself completely dependent on me"? Or is this topic too boring for any thoughtful responses (208 views and only 2 responses? Come on, really want some women's perspectives on this! Is my W trying to blow smoke up my azz or am I "making things up" as she accuses?)

[Owl]

I've already given you my opinion on what your wife is doing and provided my advice on what you should do from here...as I think many of the other posters on this site have. That's probably why you've not seen much of a response here...they've already given their advice/opinions on your 'main' thread.

[2sure]

So, does anyone else have any insights into what my wife may mean by "amking herlself completely dependent on me"?

 

I feel like I know exactly what she means.

 

It is her way of if not outright punishing you , then at the very least -

Not accepting the consequences of her behavior. She just will not. She is saying: YOU got your way. I wont have a life outside of being your dutiful wife , so you now have to pay.

 

She doesnt get it. She may have changed her behavior but not because she wanted to.

[sruben]

I've already given you my opinion on what your wife is doing and provided my advice on what you should do from here...as I think many of the other posters on this site have. That's probably why you've not seen much of a response here...they've already given their advice/opinions on your 'main' thread.

 

Well, that's all fine and appreciated, but I am still interested in trying to understand things that still confuse me.

 

I have taken a lot of the advice and acted on it, but I still don't know what I feel the need to know and understand to "pull the trigger" on the relationship, so to speak.

 

So please forgive me if I'm still exploring aspects of this relationship. If this isn't a good forum for such discussions, can you suggest a better one?

[Church Bells]

Or is this topic too boring for any thoughtful responses (208 views and only 2 responses? Come on, really want some women's perspectives on this! Is my W trying to blow smoke up my azz or am I "making things up" as she accuses?)

 

Have you considered that possibly people are tired of wasting their time offering advice ... that you IGNORE???

 

Most BH's who have been through this either knew instinctively to take ACTION or they learned the hard way by not taking ACTION ... continued hand-wringing and self-doubt are NOT the way to EFFECTIVELY engage a WW.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Well,

 

I just took a skimming tour of your previous posts and I got the picture that you might be a very insecure and jealous person. Your main focus seems to be looking for proof that your wife has, or has not has some kind of affair. If I missed the part where your suspicions have been confirmed, I apologize.

 

I have been in terrible relationships with controlling, jealous, insecure men in my past. Sometimes it seemed that the only thing I could do was to demonstrate as completely as possible that I had NO life outside of the man. Of course this never worked.

 

You've been divorced 3 times already, is that correct? What role did you play in them?

 

Again, I acknowledge that I just skimmed your posts for backstory and I'm thinking I MUST have missed a great deal, especially after reading the post from "michaelhopes" completely vilifying your wife.

[Owl]

Well, that's all fine and appreciated, but I am still interested in trying to understand things that still confuse me.

 

I have taken a lot of the advice and acted on it, but I still don't know what I feel the need to know and understand to "pull the trigger" on the relationship, so to speak.

 

So please forgive me if I'm still exploring aspects of this relationship. If this isn't a good forum for such discussions, can you suggest a better one?

 

Once again...I get jumped replying to you. No problem...I won't respond to your threads again. My apologies.

[sruben]

Well,

 

I just took a skimming tour of your previous posts and I got the picture that you might be a very insecure and jealous person. Your main focus seems to be looking for proof that your wife has, or has not has some kind of affair. If I missed the part where your suspicions have been confirmed, I apologize.

 

I have been in terrible relationships with controlling, jealous, insecure men in my past. Sometimes it seemed that the only thing I could do was to demonstrate as completely as possible that I had NO life outside of the man. Of course this never worked.

 

You've been divorced 3 times already, is that correct? What role did you play in them?

 

Again, I acknowledge that I just skimmed your posts for backstory and I'm thinking I MUST have missed a great deal, especially after reading the post from "michaelhopes" completely vilifying your wife.

 

Sorry, your skim has given you incomplete information -- my W has been divorced 3 times, this M is my first. I had no suspicions or jealousy of any kind the first 7 years of our M. As of last June, I am certain she had an A at that time, but I didn't get wise to it until it was over (and she came home in mourning over something she didn't want to talk about and later gave me excuses for).

 

As for me, I am in torment over the fact that she will not confess what happened. I'm not saying she had sex with the guy, it may have only been an EA, but any attempt to get nearer the truth by me results in gaslighting, crying and all sorts of other emotional manipulation by her to get me to drop it. She's against me getting IC for "my" problem, too, which seems kind of weird. If I'm a raging jealous nutcase, you'd think an IC would tell me so and help me work to stop being that way.

 

Not sure what you saw that convinced you I was like your ex's...

[sruben]

Once again...I get jumped replying to you. No problem...I won't respond to your threads again. My apologies.

 

You think I jumped on you? Not at all, and I'm sorry if you took it that way.

 

I guess tone really doesn't come across very well in a written forum... :-(

[sruben]

Have you considered that possibly people are tired of wasting their time offering advice ... that you IGNORE???

 

Most BH's who have been through this either knew instinctively to take ACTION or they learned the hard way by not taking ACTION ... continued hand-wringing and self-doubt are NOT the way to EFFECTIVELY engage a WW.

 

I still don't have the "smoking penis" described in this forum and don't know for certain that she is WW. That's why I'm examing what I DO know and trying to get comments on it before I take action that may be final.

 

I haven't ignored anything. People have said I should snoop, I'm snooping. People have said I should talk to her, I've talked to her...and gotten gaslighted for the effort. People have said I need to see an IC, I'm doing that (have a second appt on Thur). People have said I should tell her that I am (and I will, just not out of the blue). People have suggested talking to a lawyer. I'm working on that (I told my pastor that, he thought that was a good idea, given what has happened in the recent past and her divorce record).

 

People have recommended a couple of good books, one of which I read in a single sitting and the other I'm almost done with (NMMNG).

 

The only thing I haven't done is "kick the b.tch to the curb, man!" which, by the way, seems to have been the opinion of the majority who have bothered to respond.

 

You all say that MB and SI (the latter of which I've never visited) have a cult-like culture, but LS seems to have one, too. At least, the majority of the most vocal peolple seem to be in the "kick..to the curb" camp.

 

I've had one or two posters who've actually said that they know I'll do what I need to do in my own time, and I've appreciated the space those posters have given me.

 

I'm sorry if you feel that you've personally given me any advice I've ignored...

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

Not sure what you saw that convinced you I was like your ex's...

 

Mostly the hj thread. In any case, I readily admit that I did not read everything carefully and sorry that I got it wrong.

[dazzle22]

I would imagine other posters feel like I do, that if you read a post, that has a long back story, and is complicated, you just can't think of anything that would be helpful to the OP , so you don't comment on that thread.

 

That being said, your wife sounds like she might have borderline personality disorder. Flighty, work is a 'toxic' environment - not taking much responsibility in her part in creating it, one minute being independent, and then the next wanting to be totally dependent. Possible?

[Church Bells]

I had no suspicions or jealousy of any kind the first 7 years of our M. As of last June, I am certain she had an A at that time, but I didn't get wise to it until it was over (and she came home in mourning over something she didn't want to talk about and later gave me excuses for).

 

So why are you still referring to your W as a ... "Poss WW" (I'm assuming that "Poss" stands for "possible")?

 

The only thing I haven't done is "kick the b.tch to the curb, man!" which, by the way, seems to have been the opinion of the majority who have bothered to respond.

 

When you seek out advice and the MAJORITY of those sought out send a clear message ... why are you arguing with them?

 

You all say that MB and SI (the latter of which I've never visited) have a cult-like culture, but LS seems to have one, too.

 

Then, by all means ... go on over to Marriage Builders ... they love guys who are afraid to act and would rather buy books, counselling, etc. Maybe they'll even SELL you one of those MB weekends ... THAT is the big ticket item.

 

BTW ... consensus DOES NOT equal cult. The term CULT is used to describe an organized group that show more loyalty to a person (Dr. Harley in this case) and his methods than they do to the actual PEOPLE in need of help.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Well, I just made another stab at reading your posts to gain an understanding of your situation. I still don't have one. You were looking for ways to use what you "had" on your wife to get her to admit her affair, but read as I might, I couldn't get to the place where you clearly state what you "have" on her. What DO you "have"?

 

What is the pertinence of that HJ thread?

 

What did she SAY when you asked her how she spent 24K? People with shopping "issues" can go through money without having that much to show for it ... or she could be stashing money to help her establish on her own. Not "honorable" but also not indicative of cheating.

 

Your pastor recommended that you get IC because you are "obsessing"? Is that right? That is meaningful.

 

It sure sounds like you have a sick relationship with your wife. If you are so certain of her cheating that it is the defining aspect of your marriage, then you need to do something about it other than skulking around, secretly contacting PI's and such. Can you live with it or can't you? If you can, you need to find a way (through the counseling) to move on and towards a healthy marriage.

 

All of your behavior is based upon your suspicions. I can see very well, whether she's had an EA, a PA or nothing at all that she might be feeling cornered and that by staying in the house and doing nothing, might be able to alleviate your suspicions and to regain some positive aspects to your marriage.

 

You said at one point that you had a great "bonding" weekend, but I would be surprised. How good and "bonding" could any time be with a husband who is trying as hard as he can to discover his wife's cheating? Again, whether she cheated or not ... I imagine that she is trying to appease you and make the bad stuff stop.

 

This is where I see similarities between your marriage and my past relationships with controlling and insecure men. They were terrible relationships.

[sruben]

Well, I just made another stab at reading your posts to gain an understanding of your situation. I still don't have one. You were looking for ways to use what you "had" on your wife to get her to admit her affair, but read as I might, I couldn't get to the place where you clearly state what you "have" on her. What DO you "have"?

 

Not a lot, but I have: Evidence of increased spending on clothes and makeup last June when OM was here last, evidence that she never told me but once about having lunch with him (just him), her statement (and practice) of not wearing the wedding ring around the house (and I believe at her job at that time, too, but I have not verified), her statement that she doesn't think there's anything "immoral" or "wrong" about giving a man she's not M'd to a HJ, her statement that she started dating H#2 before divorced from H#1, her constant use of half-truth language, her body language when telling verifiable lies, the fact that she's lying about a lot of seemingly insignificant things, her defensiveness before I'd even asked about an affair, her volatility and gaslighting to convince me things happened at times or in ways that I know they did not, her denying things she's clearly said, the missing $24K. Oh, and I tested positive for HSV1 and 2 last fall. I don't think I mentioned that anywhere previously.

 

What is the pertinence of that HJ thread?

 

Understandable question, but answered above.

 

What did she SAY when you asked her how she spent 24K? People with shopping "issues" can go through money without having that much to show for it ... or she could be stashing money to help her establish on her own. Not "honorable" but also not indicative of cheating.

 

That's another strange part -- she initially tried to gaslight me with a bunch of random spending to explain it, but most of that $24K was spent as cash, in $400 - $1200/month portions (depending on the month). But she tried to tell me things like spending it at Target (she NEVER spends cash there, she ALWAYS uses her Target or other credit card when shopping there). She does spend cash on her hair and nails (usually $120 for the hair every 5 weeks, $60-90 for the nails as often as she does it, which last summer was every couple of weeks!). But one thing she said was, "You mean I can't get someone a gift without you knowing about it?" Seemed like a strange thing to say. Who's getting the gift and for what occasion? She had no answer.

 

Your pastor recommended that you get IC because you are "obsessing"? Is that right? That is meaningful.

 

Sure. I have an analytical mind, usually thrives on solving puzzles, and she's given me a big one.

 

It sure sounds like you have a sick relationship with your wife.

 

So it's all my fault? You sound like her, now.

 

If you are so certain of her cheating that it is the defining aspect of your marriage, then you need to do something about it other than skulking around, secretly contacting PI's and such. Can you live with it or can't you? If you can, you need to find a way (through the counseling) to move on and towards a healthy marriage.

 

If she cheated and doesn't come clean, no, I can't really abide that.

 

All of your behavior is based upon your suspicions. I can see very well, whether she's had an EA, a PA or nothing at all that she might be feeling cornered and that by staying in the house and doing nothing, might be able to alleviate your suspicions and to regain some positive aspects to your marriage.

 

That's a possibility, but then why set up separate finances -- which makes it seem like we're moving toward separation and dissolving the marriage, rather than working to create more unity?

 

You said at one point that you had a great "bonding" weekend, but I would be surprised. How good and "bonding" could any time be with a husband who is trying as hard as he can to discover his wife's cheating? Again, whether she cheated or not ... I imagine that she is trying to appease you and make the bad stuff stop.

 

Especially if she created the bad stuff. Her behavior in June was very different than the 7 years we've been married. No one "put" the idea in my head that she might have been cheating in June...her behavior was solely responsible (although she blamed a friend I had lunch with around that time, whose ex-wife was definitely cheating before they divorced).

 

This is where I see similarities between your marriage and my past relationships with controlling and insecure men. They were terrible relationships.

 

Sounds like you're kind of sensitive about that topic. If being completely in control is important to you, why enter into a relationship at all?

 

And w.r.t "relationship" vs. marriage, you realize there is a difference, right? I have a right to expect her NOT to go get her emotional needs that she should be getting from me, outside the marriage. Does that statement bother you? She has the same reasonable expectation of me, btw.

 

I had no reason to be suspicious prior to last June, after 7 years of marriage, although I've since seen signs that something may have been going on much earlier than I noticed before...

[Fight4Me]

So, does anyone else have any insights into what my wife may mean by "amking herlself completely dependent on me"? Or is this topic too boring for any thoughtful responses (208 views and only 2 responses? Come on, really want some women's perspectives on this! Is my W trying to blow smoke up my azz or am I "making things up" as she accuses?)

 

 

I did not respond sooner because I didn't have enough time to go through your history to give what I thought was an adequate response. I still haven't, but will at least throw out what first popped into my head when I read it, and you can weigh it against your gut.

 

Her thinking may have been that if she felt dependent on you, she would be less likely to act out in destructive ways. Maybe she's trying to figure out why she's so messed up, and thought that was a viable option.

 

She keeps running from her problems, going from one relationship to the next, from one job to the next, from one thing to another, looking for the magic fix. Perhaps she is hoping that if she lies enough, she can continue to evade whatever it is she is running from and maybe she doesn't even know what that is.

 

Someone mentioned Borderline Personality Disorder. It's possible that something mentally is going on with her, and all these other issues are symptoms of that. Again, I haven't had a chance to go over everything you've been dealing with, but can clearly see you love your wife and want to save your marriage. I hope and pray she comes to her senses long enough to admit she needs some serious help and agrees to IC. You'll need to get tough. Not mean, but tough. By the way, of all the books recommended to you, has Love Must Be Tough, by Dr. James Dobson been one of them? If not, you may want to give that one a shot.

 

Praying for you!!

[sruben]

I did not respond sooner because I didn't have enough time to go through your history to give what I thought was an adequate response. I still haven't, but will at least throw out what first popped into my head when I read it, and you can weigh it against your gut.

 

Her thinking may have been that if she felt dependent on you, she would be less likely to act out in destructive ways. Maybe she's trying to figure out why she's so messed up, and thought that was a viable option.

 

That thought hadn't occurred to me, so thank you for jumping in here with that.

 

I really am getting the idea that she is messed up more than I can possibly know. Some friends have asked if she were sexually abused as a child. I don't know, she's never mentioned it. There is a strange tension between her and her dad. I'd hate to think that's why!

 

She keeps running from her problems, going from one relationship to the next, from one job to the next, from one thing to another, looking for the magic fix. Perhaps she is hoping that if she lies enough, she can continue to evade whatever it is she is running from and maybe she doesn't even know what that is.

 

That's true -- and she's very good at playing the victim. I don't know why, if she just hated her job, she just didn't start looking and get another one.

 

Someone mentioned Borderline Personality Disorder. It's possible that something mentally is going on with her, and all these other issues are symptoms of that. Again, I haven't had a chance to go over everything you've been dealing with, but can clearly see you love your wife and want to save your marriage. I hope and pray she comes to her senses long enough to admit she needs some serious help and agrees to IC. You'll need to get tough. Not mean, but tough. By the way, of all the books recommended to you, has Love Must Be Tough, by Dr. James Dobson been one of them? If not, you may want to give that one a shot.

 

You may be right about BPD. She has a book called "Beyond Prozac", told me at one time it was because of H#2 who was a VV with addictions, but I thought another time she told me her fBFF had given it to her. She has told me fBFF was on Prozac and several other things. I've always heard that "birds of a feather flock together", I wonder if this were true between her and fBFF.

 

As for LMBT, yes, a friend loaned me a copy last summer. It's sitting her at my desk, and is the ONLY thing I was given or bought on this topic that I haven't read, yet (except Love Busters, which I just bought last week). I was just thinking about that this morning when something on the radio made me think of it. I need to get into that one.

 

Praying for you!!

 

Thank you very much! And thank you for responding. Your post is both insightful and helpful to me, and thank you for the encouragement.

 

I do love my wife, and I don't want to end our marriage if I can help it. But she's got to want to fight for it, too -- I believe she wants to keep it, but I think she's scared sh.tless that I'll leave her if I find out certain things. I've tried to reassure her that there is love and forgiveness available, but she's got to come clean. She has yet to do so, and hence, my pain...

[Fight4Me]

You know, something else that I thought of was bipolar disorder. I have a close family member with it, and it can manifest in ways other than what most people assume about it. The excessive shopping comes to mind, and the completely unreasonableness of her thinking, becoming unpredictable in her moods, etc. My family member will become angry over the most innocuous things, but have periods of relative normalcy. She tends to be more on the depressive side, but there are many types of this illness that it can be difficult to diagnose. Some act out sexually, too, btw.

 

I'm not trying to excuse away her behavior at all, and I believe mental illness is often used as a convenient way to escape responsibility, but if there's a chance that there is a physiological component to this, then it's at least worth looking into.

 

You mentioned having an analytical mind. I can identify with that, and the absolute need to know what, how, when, and why and connecting the dots. It can sometimes cause us to try to find the fix and implement a plan to get going on a solution. Just remember, whatever it is you're dealing with, it's going to take time, so try to remember that you're not under a deadline right now. Keep up the detective work, but don't let it consume you. Quietly observe and know that the full scope of the truth will eventually come to light.

 

Hang in there and don't neglect your own mental or spiritual well being. Sometimes easier said than done, I know.

[The River Ouse]

 

Oh, and I tested positive for HSV1 and 2 last fall. I don't think I mentioned that anywhere previously.

 

When was the last time you were tested for this previously?

 

So it's all my fault? You sound like her, now.

 

I didn't say anything about whose fault it was / is; I said it sounds like you have a sick relationship.

 

You are reacting to something that did or did not happen ONE YEAR AGO. You cannot go on like this. It is self destructive, and destructive to your marriage. I can't imagine the environment for the kids.

 

 

Sounds like you're kind of sensitive about that topic. If being completely in control is important to you, why enter into a relationship at all?

 

Well, I am sensitive to unhealthy, controlling behavior when I perceive it. (For the record, I realize that I may be off base perceiving it here with you ... all I have to go on is what you've written). I have no desire to be "completely in control." And I CERTAINLY would loathe being involved with an unconfident, jealous, controlling man ever again.

 

And w.r.t "relationship" vs. marriage, you realize there is a difference, right? I have a right to expect her NOT to go get her emotional needs that she should be getting from me, outside the marriage. Does that statement bother you?

 

No. Actually, I know that "marriage" and "relationship" are not necessarily synonyms. I'm just smart that way! And no, it doesn't bother me that one should expect the emotional needs of ones partner to be met within a monogamous committed relationship.

 

I have no idea whether your suspicions are founded or not, but since you are very righteous about them, you owe it to yourself to free yourself for a relationship that can involve trust.

[sruben]

When was the last time you were tested for this previously?

 

Um, a year or two before. I had some strange non-sexually related symptoms that they were thinking might be Lyme disease or something, but the first thing they checked me for was HIV. Although I didn't think I had any risk factors, they wanted to rule it out. I don't know if they specifically checked for HSV1 AND 2 or just HSV in general at that time. I've heard it's a separate test for 1 and for 2.

 

I didn't say anything about whose fault it was / is; I said it sounds like you have a sick relationship.

 

At this point I need to ask: Who are you, really? I was responding to one "Mme. Chaucer" and you're replying as "The River Ouse". Do you change monikers in this forum regularly?

 

Yes, there is definitely something broken in our relationship, no doubt about that. And even if the EA/PA issue gets resolved or turns out to be a non-starter, we definitely have conflict avoidance issues (which I am addressing on my part) and boundary issues.

 

You are reacting to something that did or did not happen ONE YEAR AGO. You cannot go on like this. It is self destructive, and destructive to your marriage. I can't imagine the environment for the kids.

 

With the exception of the fight a couple of weeks ago, they haven't seen any of it. We do try to keep it out of their sight as much as possible, although the youngest seems especially aware of it (not being a child of divorce like her sisters).

 

Well, I am sensitive to unhealthy, controlling behavior when I perceive it. (For the record, I realize that I may be off base perceiving it here with you ... all I have to go on is what you've written). I have no desire to be "completely in control." And I CERTAINLY would loathe being involved with an unconfident, jealous, controlling man ever again.

 

Well, it's not my intention to be one, either. That's why I offered her separate finances last year when she accused me of being a control freak. But she was mad then. Later she recanted, said that SHE was the control freak.

 

No. Actually, I know that "marriage" and "relationship" are not necessarily synonyms. I'm just smart that way! And no, it doesn't bother me that one should expect the emotional needs of ones partner to be met within a monogamous committed relationship.

 

I have no idea whether your suspicions are founded or not, but since you are very righteous about them, you owe it to yourself to free yourself for a relationship that can involve trust.

 

That may yet happen. Although in this culture, and with all the divorces and affairs I see just in people I know or am acquainted with, I'm not real hopeful, especially at my age...

[michaelhopes]

Sruben you're alright.....You are not a jealous, insecure and controlling man. You are here bouncing questions off of everybody because you are trying to fix something that is broken and nobody has the blueprints. I think what you are doing however will end up in analysis paralysis. Been there done that.I still say trust your God given common sense.

As far as the "kick her to the curb" cult, I think these people (myself included) have been there done that so many times and seen this play out so many times that we want to chop down the learning curve for you. Your posts dont only raise red flags, they set off sirens, set off car alarms,church bells start clanging, fish jump out of their aquariums and the Goodyear blimp just exploded. Its like telling someone their hair is on fire and they wont listen.

So forgive those that seem to be a little bent out of shape with you....

People just dont want to see you hurt anymore, but you seem to be getting a grip on that.

Its all good

Edited May 25, 2010 by michaelhopes