New posters on the OW/OM forum and the Infidelity forum

May 23, 2010

Are you saying that your opinion is that if you have not at all times been able to live up to your ideals you should give up on them?

The way I've read this is if a person knows what they've done is wrong (against their beliefs), yet they do it anyway, why should they have the expectation of coming here and being treated with kid gloves.

This of course, is accepting the premise that an affair is wrong, disrespectful, etc.

May 23, 2010

Still reads to me as if in your OP you are stating that BS should keep out of the OW forum even if just for new threads as the OW/OM can look after new posters good enough without help from others.

So as a former WS, where am I allowed to post Jennie? Seeing as you see that the OW/OM forum is for OW/OM to post and Infidelity is for BS.

Everybody is allowed to post everywhere. My OP was a suggestion of selfregulation, not of exclusion.

I do know that WS rarely post on LS, especially WS currently in affairs. They are of course like everybody else welcome to post on all forums on LS, and I do believe they feel at home on both the OM/OW forum and the Infidelity forum - those which feel LS is a place for them at all that is.

While it was difficult for me as an OW to find a forum where I felt at home and could receive support even as an OW still in an affair, I believe this is so much harder for a WS to find. This is a real problem for them. I think this contributes to the long duration of limbo the WS experiences. There is nowhere for them to go for support unless they are ready to give up the affair.

Think of someone like White Flower's MM. Can we see him posting here without getting jumped on? Posting about going to IC while living with his wife and still talking to White Flower? He IS doing something about his situation, and still I believe it would take incredible strength on his side to dare to post on LS.

And what about my MM? Who is planning to go to IC but never gets there? Who does not want to end his relationship with me neither does he want to end his marriage, at least not while his many kids are still so young? Would he be welcome here? If he had someone to talk to, perhaps he would finally take that step to go to IC.

We are all in need of support whether in or out of the affair, whether WS, BS or OW/OM. It is my hope that LS will provide help and support to all people in the love triangle.

Edited May 23, 2010 by jennie-jennie

May 23, 2010

The way I've read this is if a person knows what they've done is wrong (against their beliefs), yet they do it anyway, why should they have the expectation of coming here and being treated with kid gloves.

This of course, is accepting the premise that an affair is wrong, disrespectful, etc.

No. My interpretation of what Fieldofgolds was saying is, if you have not honored your ideals then you should not expect anybody else to either.

May 23, 2010

One word (or two): Moral relativism. To me this is not a problem.

I personally would believe that Moral Relativism in this case is more about denial of the consequences of ones actions rather that actually having different moral beliefs of another..

JMO though..

I post sometimes on threads dealing with infidelity more for a voice for the children in the relationships.. As that is what I was growing up with a serial cheater as a father.

It seems the children are never considered in affairs and from my perspective Moral Relativism doesn't wash when kids are involved

May 23, 2010

I'll drink the tea or the wine which ever you prefer with you any day WW and discuss emotions until the pot or bottle is empty.

Until then, I'll keep writing my posts and then erasing them without posting when it comes to a poster/topic that is personal that I can't be kind in. I don't always manage to bit my tongue/fingers in time, but I do try with the personal topics of at least the new posters...and sometimes those I preceive as more fragile I try to be gentle with as well. I don't always manage it, but I at least try.

CCL

CCL,

You are a lovely and kind soul as far as I have been able to tell by the way you post to any and all who come here seeking support.

The board would not be the same without you and I for one am grateful for your presence here.

May 23, 2010

The way I've read this is if a person knows what they've done is wrong (against their beliefs), yet they do it anyway, why should they have the expectation of coming here and being treated with kid gloves.

This of course, is accepting the premise that an affair is wrong, disrespectful, etc.

I agree. I outgrew kids gloves when I became an adult. It has been suggested that some posts aren't sensitive enough, supportive enough or empathic enough. I'm just a little curious how it is someone would know what the level of compassion/support/empathy is coming from each individual person. I mean as JJ likes to point out about relativism, how is it possible to know the level of all those things being complained about? How does one actually decide that.....is there a meter?

May 23, 2010

I personally find this whole concept of some posters keeping out of threads to allow regulars within a particular forum to "welcome" a new poster ridiculous and offensive. This to me is censorship and suggests that the opinions of some outweigh the opinions of others. We ALL have the right to post anywhere throughout LS and we ALL have valid opinions regardless of our personal history and experiences. If discussing affairs, whether as a BS, WS or OW/OM, we all have something to contribute which may be relevant to the poster's situation. Tough love is quite often needed just as much as, if not more than, sympathy and support.

What is a suggestion of self-regulation to one is obviously censorship to another.

If I am to be accused of a strawman argument then go ahead. I would rather that than be accused of trying to police this site and telling posters to back off because they do not agree with what you want to say/hear/believe.

It is not about agreeing with what I want to say/hear/believe. In that case I would have excluded the reformed OW in my OP, which I clearly did not. It is not about what is being said at all but about how it is said.

My suggestion of letting the OW/OM do the welcoming on a newcomer's first thread was just a suggestion of how to go about the problem of newcomers being scared off LS on their very first thread. Perhaps there are other ways to handle it. I am open for suggestions. That is why I started this thread, for us to discuss this problem.

May 23, 2010

CCL,

You are a lovely and kind soul as far as I have been able to tell by the way you post to any and all who come here seeking support.

The board would not be the same without you and I for one am grateful for your presence here.

Me too. :bunny:

If everybody did what CCL suggests here, then this thread would be abundant.

May 23, 2010

When I read your post about WF and your MM, I kept thinking why shouldn't they be jumped on? What they are doing it wrong, according to most of the population. So realistically, why should they even expect to come here and have their actions condoned?

When I came here, I fully expected to get jumped.

I think this goes back to jwi's post- if a poster can't handle the criticism, then they weren't looking for help in the first place. They were looking for validation.

May 23, 2010

That is why I started this thread, for us to discuss this problem.

A problem to one doesn't mean it is a problem to all..

IMO I don't think it is a problem..

I do understand what you are trying to do though..

Sometimes the tone of a thread or a couple of pages can be set by the very first post after the OP..

and sometimes an OP gets the pile on mentality at that point and it goes down hill from there.. but that doesn't mean the first poster after the OP needed to wait..

I think when a topic goes off topic it is up to the posters on that thread to bring it back on topic..

May 23, 2010

A problem to one doesn't mean it is a problem to all..

IMO I don't think it is a problem..

I do understand what you are trying to do though..
Sometimes the tone of a thread or a couple of pages can be set by the very first post after the OP..
and sometimes an OP gets the pile on mentality at that point and it goes down hill from there.. but that doesn't mean the first poster after the OP needed to wait..

I think when a topic goes off topic it is up to the posters on that thread to bring it back on topic..

I don't see a problem either. If anyone doesn't want to post, then don't. Easy enough.

May 23, 2010

When I read your post about WF and your MM, I kept thinking why shouldn't they be jumped on? What they are doing it wrong, according to most of the population. So realistically, why should they even expect to come here and have their actions condoned?

When I came here, I fully expected to get jumped.

I think this goes back to jwi's post- if a poster can't handle the criticism, then they weren't looking for help in the first place. They were looking for validation.

Can you see the AA meeting where all the alcoholics jump on the newly arrived alcoholic? Can you see the counselor jumping on his new patient? What purpose does this serve? Do you think the WS do not know what they are doing is considered wrong? Do you think anyone needs to tell them that? What it does is exclude them from the board. It excludes them of support. It excludes them of a possibility to try to come to terms with their situation.

It is not about condoning the WS' actions, it is about accepting that right now it is what it is, let's see what we can do about it.

May 23, 2010

I've been reading LoveShack for awhile, but never registered. This thread however, inspired me to do so. I don't really fit in any group. But I find myself reading here when I have time. I started reading here in '08 after an affair came to light and shattered one of my dearest friends.

I have no idea where I'd post. I'm not a BS. I was an unwitting OW many years ago, though it was VERY short-lived. I am an adult who still has issues to this day because of my father's infidelities and what it did to my mother. I am a military member who has watched grown men collapse when discovering their wives indiscretions. I am a woman who became a fill-in mom for my best friend's children when she discovered her military husband was having an affair while deployed. I have so many hats that I wear.

Perhaps someone could tell me where I should post?

You should post anywhere that you feel comfortable posting. Anywhere that you feel you have something of value to offer. Anywhere where you have at least constructive criticism to add to the discussion.

The purpose of these boards is to offer support. If you have support to offer you should. Support varies for each individual seeking it. If you can post without attacking or name calling you should do it, however if your motivation for posting is to hurt the person who is here seeking help, then you should refrain from posting.

I, for one, sometimes am angry when I read posts here. Before I post I ask myself if I am posting for the person who wrote the OP, or if I am posting because of how it affected me. If I find that I am posting because I am angry and want to lash out, I simply close that thread without posting at all and move on.

May 23, 2010

A problem to one doesn't mean it is a problem to all..

IMO I don't think it is a problem..

I do understand what you are trying to do though..
Sometimes the tone of a thread or a couple of pages can be set by the very first post after the OP..
and sometimes an OP gets the pile on mentality at that point and it goes down hill from there.. but that doesn't mean the first poster after the OP needed to wait..

I think when a topic goes off topic it is up to the posters on that thread to bring it back on topic..

Thanks for trying to understand where I am coming from.

May 23, 2010

And as someone who came to LS as a WS, I can honestly say that I knew I would get bashed and that I had to deal with that if I was going to gain any help from LS. In fact the flak I got was all part of the recovery process for me. If I had just got sympathy when I first came here, I may not be in the place where I am now and very much want to be.

May 23, 2010

You should post anywhere that you feel comfortable posting. Anywhere that you feel you have something of value to offer. Anywhere where you have at least constructive criticism to add to the discussion.

The purpose of these boards is to offer support. If you have support to offer you should. Support varies for each individual seeking it. If you can post without attacking or name calling you should do it, however if your motivation for posting is to hurt the person who is here seeking help, then you should refrain from posting.

I, for one, sometimes am angry when I read posts here. Before I post I ask myself if I am posting for the person who wrote the OP, or if I am posting because of how it affected me. If I find that I am posting because I am angry and want to lash out, I simply close that thread without posting at all and move on.[/QUOTE]

Selfregulation at its best.

May 23, 2010

Can you see the AA meeting where all the alcoholics jump on the newly arrived alcoholic? Can you see the counselor jumping on his new patient? What purpose does this serve? Do you think the WS do not know what they are doing is considered wrong? Do you think anyone needs to tell them that? What it does is exclude them from the board. It excludes them of support. It excludes them of a possibility to try to come to terms with their situation.

It is not about condoning the WS' actions, it is about accepting that right now it is what it is, let's see what we can do about it.

You're making two different points in this thread. One I agree with. Yes, we should be nicer to each other. Not just to new posters either. And "tough love" can be given without being mean and hateful. It isn't always though.

And if everyone (and I include myself, I've had my moments) followed this, your second point would be unnecessary.

May 23, 2010

And as someone who came to LS as a WS, I can honestly say that I knew I would get bashed and that I had to deal with that if I was going to gain any help from LS. In fact the flak I got was all part of the recovery process for me. If I had just got sympathy when I first came here, I may not be in the place where I am now and very much want to be.

I am glad that it worked for you, Anne. But the very fact that there are so few WS posting on LS tells us that it is not working for everyone.

My MM has said to me with sorrow in his voice: There is nowhere for someone like me to go to seek help with my dilemma.

May 23, 2010

You're making two different points in this thread. One I agree with. Yes, we should be nicer to each other. Not just to new posters either. And "tough love" can be given without being mean and hateful. It isn't always though.

And if everyone (and I include myself, I've had my moments) followed this, your second point would be unnecessary.

I am happy we agree on this.

May 23, 2010

I am glad that it worked for you, Anne. But the very fact that there are so few WS posting on LS tells us that it is not working for everyone.

My MM has said to me with sorrow in his voice: There is nowhere for someone like me to go to seek help with my dilemma.

But how much of that is because he is not yet prepared to face the consequences of his actions or make a choice. Is he not seeking help because he does not really want help? If he really wanted the help as much as he SAYS he does, then he would go out and get it (e.g. IC)

This to me is why if you come to LS for help, you should be prepared to take the rough with the smooth.

May 23, 2010

I for one live by those standards in real life. The fact that my SO/MM has chosen to remain married although he is in an exclusive relationship with me does not change that fact.

I also live by those standards in my "real life". (This may be an internet forum board, but hate to break it to people it is also real life. There are real people with real issues using these boards as just another means to work through their real life issues.)

I do not tell lies. (generally speaking of course since everyone is guilty of a "truth flub" now and then)

I do not cheat. (Yeah, yeah I can already imagine the eye rolls that I will get... however I personally do not cheat. My sweetheart's wife is well aware of my relationship with him. I am not some dirty little secret hidden in the shadows of the back alleys and seedy motel rooms that people attempt to make me out to be.)

I try my best everyday to live my life in a fair and compassionate way.

The fact that so many of my "real life" friends are BWs that come to me for advice and compassion when dealing with the fallout in their own relationships despite their full knowledge of my relationship is an indication of the fact that I am not the evil, lying, horrible, twisted value having person that this board often personifies as the emotional make-up of a typical OW.

I honestly can look at myself in the mirror each night and be proud of the human being that I am. I wish more people would learn to live like that to be honest. (You are right when you said if people did there would not be near as much heartache in the world.)

May 23, 2010

But how much of that is because he is not yet prepared to face the consequences of his actions or make a choice. Is he not seeking help because he does not really want help? If he really wanted the help as much as he SAYS he does, then he would go out and get it (e.g. IC)

This to me is why if you come to LS for help, you should be prepared to take the rough with the smooth.

IC is not done in one session. Why do we expect the decision process to be quicker here on LS when we are not even professionals?

Perhaps my MM is not yet ready to make a choice. What we do know is that there is no forum out there where he can get help becoming ready either.

I came to LS not wanting to end my relationship with my MM, but wanting to learn how to deal better with being an OW, wanting to understand better how a good person can be a WS. Am I not worthy of support then, because I choose to live my life according to my own morals instead of the majority's?

May 23, 2010

Can you see the AA meeting where all the alcoholics jump on the newly arrived alcoholic? Can you see the counselor jumping on his new patient? What purpose does this serve? Do you think the WS do not know what they are doing is considered wrong? Do you think anyone needs to tell them that? What it does is exclude them from the board. It excludes them of support. It excludes them of a possibility to try to come to terms with their situation.

It is not about condoning the WS' actions, it is about accepting that right now it is what it is, let's see what we can do about it.

An alcoholic goes to AA for assistance in STOPPING his actions.

All I can say is this- before WF's thread was pulled, OWoman joked about loading her AK47 (or some automatic weapon) in reference to WF's MM.

If OWoman doesn't feel the need to be terribly compassionate, that says a lot.

May 23, 2010

two wrongs don't make it right..... I think that's relavant to what F.O.G. is suggesting by my post but it popped into my head.

But if you're in the boat of once a cheater, always a cheater and everyone else is perfect then go ahead and cast the first stone....

I agree that Field's post was very provacative and thought provoking, especially for me. But I effed up and came here for support. I appreciate what I have received and hope that others can continue to benefit from all POV.

May 23, 2010

IC is not done in one session. Why do we expect the decision process to be quicker here on LS when we are not even professionals?

I know IC is not done in one session. I also never suggested that the decision process is quicker on LS.

Perhaps my MM is not yet ready to make a choice. What we do know is that there is no forum out there where he can get help becoming ready either.

Or he could man up (just as I did when I came here) and post on a forum like LS and deal with the flak just as I did. There are many on LS who post in a supportive and non-judgemental who would try to help your MM if he came here.

I came to LS not wanting to end my relationship with my MM, but wanting to learn how to deal better with being an OW, wanting to understand better how a good person can be a WS. Am I not worthy of support then, because I choose to live my life according to my own morals instead of the majority's?

And I never suggested you are not worthy of support or should end your relationship! We all need help and support at times - hence why we come to LS.

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