It's not fair women don't like boring losers

[sweetjasmine]

You never answered the question.

 

Anyone would feel down in that situation.

 

But when I feel down and ask people for advice, I don't attack them for actually giving me advice and I don't go into an insane defensive mode where I pretend there's absolutely nothing wrong with me and it's everyone else on planet earth who has a problem. I think it's just as nasty to insult someone when they give you the advice you sought out yourself just because you don't want to hear that you have to fix yourself.

[sweetjasmine]

I would never do that but it says a alot about women's taste in men when he actually became a sex symbol.

 

Yes, Wogs, that must be why every woman I know lines up outside the state penitentiary just waiting to catch a glimpse of a murderer during his daily 30 minutes of outside time.

[Rorschach]

Yes, Wogs, that must be why every woman I know lines up outside the state penitentiary just waiting to catch a glimpse of a murderer during his daily 30 minutes of outside time.

 

To be fair those guys do work out alot, it's basically all they do! well, work out and get ass raped.

[Ross PK]

Anyone would feel down in that situation.

 

But when I feel down and ask people for advice, I don't attack them for actually giving me advice and I don't go into an insane defensive mode where I pretend there's absolutely nothing wrong with me and it's everyone else on planet earth who has a problem. I think it's just as nasty to insult someone when they give you the advice you sought out yourself just because you don't want to hear that you have to fix yourself.

 

Well obviously if someone attacks you when you give them advise it's right to attack them back, but I'm talking about people who don't attack you when you give them advise. It seems like it those people which this thread is aimed at.

[Woggle]

Yes, Wogs, that must be why every woman I know lines up outside the state penitentiary just waiting to catch a glimpse of a murderer during his daily 30 minutes of outside time.

 

He had a bunch of groupies show up at his trial.

[donnamaybe]

Well obviously if someone attacks you when you give them advise it's right to attack them back, .

 

And this thread was a rather PA way of doing just that.

[Rorschach]

Well obviously if someone attacks you when you give them advise it's right to attack them back, but I'm talking about people who don't attack you when you give them advise. It seems like it those people which this thread is aimed at.

 

See you're doing it again, your seeing this thread as an attack rather than an attempt to help. The people this thread is aimed at are people that have a problem they can't see, a problem they don't really even WANT to see, but a problem they need to see none the less.

 

If gentle persuasion is us shining a flashlight on your problem this thread is somebody turning on the flood lights, it's violent, its shocking, but its the next step in the progression.

[donnamaybe]

If gentle persuasion is us shining a flashlight on your problem this thread is somebody turning on the flood lights, it's violent, its shocking, but its the next step in the progression.

 

AND it was done in this way because the OTHER way did NOT work.

[Ross PK]

See you're doing it again, your seeing this thread as an attack rather than an attempt to help. The people this thread is aimed at are people that have a problem they can't see, a problem they don't really even WANT to see, but a problem they need to see none the less.

 

If gentle persuasion is us shining a flashlight on your problem this thread is somebody turning on the flood lights, it's violent, its shocking, but its the next step in the progression.

 

Well, you guys have a strange way of helping. *Shrug*

 

I'm wondering if you guys really believe that or whether it is just an excuse for bullying.

[donnamaybe]

Well, you guys have a strange way of helping. *Shrug*

 

I'm wondering if you guys really believe that or whether it is just an excuse for bullying.

 

Read for yourself how people TRIED to help and got verbally smacked down and ridiculed for it.

[Rorschach]

Well, you guys have a strange way of helping. *Shrug*

 

I'm wondering if you guys really believe that or whether it is just an excuse for bullying.

 

Like donnamaybe said, read one of the other threads where we try to help gently and politely, it doesn't work then either. I'm surprised you've never heard of 'tough love'.

 

If you had a friend, and you asked your friend 'Am I a nice person' because you really WANTED to be a nice person, but you didn't know if you were or not, would you want your friend to say 'oh yeah your nice' even if you weren't or would you want your friend to say 'well you can be a bit of a jerk sometimes when you do <example>'?

 

The second response is not nearly as nice, but if your a good person you'll listen to what he says and fix it, if your friend just tells you 'oh yeah you're great' then the problem will NEVER get fixed.

[Cracker Jack]

I understand why they're going about it this way. It's very similiar to "tough love" when you think about it. It may seem harsh, but the purpose behind it is pure. I'm pretty sure they just want you to succeed if you're struggling.

 

However, I really have a question: I know many have said if a guy sucks at dating, he's the problem--but what if the guy is in top-form and still rejected?

 

Basically, if he's down to earth, has himself settled pretty well, has a good personality, high level of confidence, no pushover, never holds-back his feelings, and has no glaring flaws, yet still fails to win the heart of a female, how can he conceivably catch on to what his issues really are?

 

I know the "person must have problems" is the general POV, but isn't it possible that some men just aren't good enough to win over a woman, no matter what? I've seen some of the best just get sent to the friend zone, as well as myself, and while there certainly is more fish in the sea, one can only wonder if they really can change their predicament once it happens quite a few times. I've often heard female's peg a guy as the "Perfect friend", but simply not good enough to be in a relationship.

[Ross PK]

Like donnamaybe said, read one of the other threads where we try to help gently and politely, it doesn't work then either. I'm surprised you've never heard of 'tough love'.

 

If you had a friend, and you asked your friend 'Am I a nice person' because you really WANTED to be a nice person, but you didn't know if you were or not, would you want your friend to say 'oh yeah your nice' even if you weren't or would you want your friend to say 'well you can be a bit of a jerk sometimes when you do <example>'?

 

The second response is not nearly as nice, but if your a good person you'll listen to what he says and fix it, if your friend just tells you 'oh yeah you're great' then the problem will NEVER get fixed.

 

There wouldn't be anything wrong with telling him the truth. But you guys are NOT doing the same thing as the situation you're explaining.

 

I've heard of tough love, and I don't agree with it. It may work on some people, but it doesn't work on others and certainly not on me. Again, I think 'tough love' really could be an excuse for people who can't admit they're bullies.

 

A therapist tried some tough love on me once. I went in there feeling like crap in desperate need of help, instead I came out feeling 100 times worse and was suicidal.

 

Anyway, I'm done, I've said what I've wanted to say. This is obviously something we wont agree with each other on.

[sweetjasmine]

I understand why they're going about it this way. It's very similiar to "tough love" when you think about it. It may seem harsh, but the purpose behind it is pure. I'm pretty sure they just want you to succeed if you're struggling.

 

However, I really have a question: I know many have said if a guy sucks at dating, he's the problem--but what if the guy is in top-form and still rejected?

 

Basically, if he's down to earth, has himself settled pretty well, has a good personality, high level of confidence, no pushover, never holds-back his feelings, and has no glaring flaws, yet still fails to win the heart of a female, how can he conceivably catch on to what his issues really are?

 

I know the "person must have problems" is the general POV, but isn't it possible that some men just aren't good enough to win over a woman, no matter what? I've seen some of the best just get sent to the friend zone, as well as myself, and while there certainly is more fish in the sea, one can only wonder if they really can change their predicament once it happens quite a few times. I've often heard female's peg a guy as the "Perfect friend", but simply not good enough to be in a relationship.

 

What women are they trying to win over?

 

Why are they trying to find a woman?

 

How do they feel about the fact that they're not with a woman?

 

I'm friends with some men I consider wonderful but I wouldn't want to date them because we're incompatible. I adore my guy friend R but if we dated, we'd end up wanting to strangle each other because we have totally different needs and expectations. If he spent all his time going after incompatible women like me, he'd be single forever.

[marsle85]

This thread lacks a target topic, and as a response: "the masses are asses".

[Cracker Jack]

What women are they trying to win over?

 

Normal women, for the most part. I'm going off of experiences from people I know, as well as myself. So yeah, the women aren't supermodels or anything, so we're not reaching beyond our realm.

 

Why are they trying to find a woman?

 

Companionship, mainly. We know it'll never happen if you sit and play the sidelines, so it's basically just a matter of attacking the opportunity when it presents itself. In the few situations I actually met someone and "appeared" to have chemistry with, it went no further than friendship, simply because they didn't see me in that way.

 

Now granted, this happened about 6 times in all, and most of these were spread out in my life (I'm 22) so it wasn't consecutive or anything.

 

How do they feel about the fact that they're not with a woman?

 

Well, most of them are easygoing, while others just feel lonely. I honestly feel lonely, but I hold no resentment towards the women I was unable to be successful or anything like that. Basically, my attitude has remained hopeful that I will succeed, but to no avail. I don't think I need a woman to live, but I desire a woman because I want to show her love while receiving love as well. The closest thing I ever had to that was the semi-relationship I had with my best (Girl) friend.

 

Of course, that went to hell completely.

 

I'm friends with some men I consider wonderful but I wouldn't want to date them because we're incompatible. I adore my guy friend R but if we dated, we'd end up wanting to strangle each other because we have totally different needs and expectations. If he spent all his time going after incompatible women like me, he'd be single forever.

 

But that's the thing, though. What if women all across the board see you as simply a "genuine nice guy" and nothing more? I know that "Every" single woman cannot share the same viewpoint--but if every woman you bother to pursue ends with the same results, even when you've done your best to prep for the situation, one can only feel like he's down on luck because none of them have him pegged as anything other than a "nice guy who any woman would be lucky to have", as that line alone is painful.

 

I understand your POV, honestly; it makes sense. I'm just questioning if it really is possible that a guy can simply not have what it takes? I dislike the defeated attitude that brings, but it is possible.

[marsle85]

Friends have lost relationships over this. You can laugh but it's no joke.

 

 

There is a CLEAR differences in the meaning of "nice" to men and women. Men see "nice" guys as their best friends, average joe, etc. Women see "nice" guys as overcompensating, too much-too soon, overwhelming but not offensive. So, they're just that "nice guy" who you don't want to date, but sure- we can be friends.

 

For example,

 

my friend was seeing a "nice guy".

-average looking, no issue there.

-BORING conversationalist

-interested in her, great

-unoffensive

-sweet guy

-texted DAILY

 

 

but that's ALL he brought to the table. The demise of "nice guys" is hugely due to other factors.

[Rorschach]

Tough love usually fails to be accepted as a form of help and instead rejected as a threat by those not ready to see the truth

 

As they say on the more immature video game related forums I frequent...

 

Fix'd

[Woggle]

My friends pretty much have the same issues. They are either nice guys who get no play or players who use and abuse women who just come back for more. I know very few men who can have a successful and healthy relationship with a woman.

[sweetjasmine]

Normal women, for the most part. I'm going off of experiences from people I know, as well as myself. So yeah, the women aren't supermodels or anything, so we're not reaching beyond our realm.

 

No, I don't mean in terms of attractiveness. It was a more general question. There are men in my "league" (I don't really buy into the whole "leagues" thing) who would never want to date me and who I wouldn't want to date because we don't really get along.

 

Companionship, mainly. We know it'll never happen if you sit and play the sidelines, so it's basically just a matter of attacking the opportunity when it presents itself. In the few situations I actually met someone and "appeared" to have chemistry with, it went no further than friendship, simply because they didn't see me in that way.

 

Now granted, this happened about 6 times in all, and most of these were spread out in my life (I'm 22) so it wasn't consecutive or anything.

 

And that happens. It just means they weren't the right person for you and you weren't the right person for them.

 

I don't think I need a woman to live, but I desire a woman because I want to show her love while receiving love as well.

 

That's a good attitude, IMO.

 

but if every woman you bother to pursue ends with the same results,

 

What are the women you're approaching like? What do they have in common?

 

I understand your POV, honestly; it makes sense. I'm just questioning if it really is possible that a guy can simply not have what it takes? I dislike the defeated attitude that brings, but it is possible.

 

What do you mean by "what it takes"? "What it takes" is going to be different for every situation and every person.

[PJKino]

Yes because only guys with positive attitudes get women

 

I guess all you need to get women is a positive attitude so says loveshacks Tony Robbins.. Green

 

Doesnt matter if shes not physically attrcted to you or anyhting else if you think positive women will just flock to you:rolleyes:

[Rorschach]

Yes because only guys with positive attitudes get women

 

I guess all you need to get women is a psotive attitude so says loveshacks Tony Robbins.. Green

 

Doesnt matetrr if shes not physically attrcted to you or anyhting nelse if you think positive women will just flock to you:rolleyes:

 

-------> point

 

. o

./|\

. /\ You

 

The point here is that if you aren't getting women it's because YOU are doing something wrong, maybe whats wrong is that your fat and unattractive, that was my problem, but thats still YOU doing something wrong. Namely over eating and under exercising, and it's a fixable problem. If you feel your too short, too red headed, too whatever to get girls I guarantee thats not really the problem as none of those things are repulsive to everybody.

[sweetjasmine]

Yes because only guys with positive attitudes get women

 

I guess all you need to get women is a psotive attitude so says loveshacks Tony Robbins.. Green

 

Doesnt matetrr if shes not physically attrcted to you or anyhting nelse if you think positive women will just flock to you:rolleyes:

 

Yeah, because guys who hate women and hate themselves and are angry at the entire world are incredibly sexy and attractive. I would totally want to bring a man into my life when all he has to offer is "I hate myself". There's nothing sexier than trying to fix the self-esteem of a self-pitying child who needs a second mom to take care of him.

[Cracker Jack]

No, I don't mean in terms of attractiveness. It was a more general question. There are men in my "league" (I don't really buy into the whole "leagues" thing) who would never want to date me and who I wouldn't want to date because we don't really get along.

 

Well, basically just normal women. Women who love to go out, laugh, and stuff like that.

 

And that happens. It just means they weren't the right person for you and you weren't the right person for them.

 

True. Thing is, if this stretch extends to, say, through a span of 20-40 women (That's alot) how can someone remain confident that the next time will be different? Basically, if a guy hasn't had much success with women in his entire life, how is it really possible to believe the next chance will be any different if it's happened countless times?

 

That's a good attitude, IMO.

 

Thanks.

 

What are the women you're approaching like? What do they have in common?

 

Well, the women I approached were mainly in school. We shared classes (Just speaking for the majority of them), enjoying going bowling, to the movies, pets, and things of that sort. Most of the times I honestly can say I felt like I would get somewhere, and a few of these (Rare) times I actually made it clear that I would love to get to know them more.

 

As you can probably guess, it was either "I just got out of a long-relationship and I can't get into one now," or "Any woman would be lucky to have you, but I'd rather just stay friends", and the infamous "Don't worry. It's not you, it's me."

 

Most of these women I'm still good friends with till this day, and I'm glad for the friendship. I just can't pinpoint what my "problem" is as to why I can't be more than a friend.

 

This topic really got me to thinking, and I'm trying to find out if I really am the problem, since most think if you aren't successful, you're doing something wrong. I don't know how to fix a problem I can't detect, basically.

 

What do you mean by "what it takes"? "What it takes" is going to be different for every situation and every person.

 

Correct. I worded that wrong. What I meant to say is basically what I just said above: If a guy is very comfortable with what he brings (Or can potentially bring) to the table, yet is still declined a good bit by women, how can he pinpoint what this problem is, if there is one to begin with? Like, me for example: I'm willing to take any piece of advice I can get on the matter, simply because I want to improve.

[Woggle]

Someone I know yelled at girls and treated them badly. He had a good body and the girls flocked to him.

 

I have a friend who once threw a woman's clothes outside to get her to leave after they had sex and the next day she wrote him a love note apologizing for making him mad.