2sunny Posted May 21, 2010 Posted May 21, 2010 ss1, FWIW, I don't see a drinking problem here ... just like my W didn't have a drinking problem ... they have/had a maturity problem where they like/liked to party with their co-workers when they were away on business. That doesn't excuse it, just puts it in perspective. What it does do, is give you an opportunity to address it and establish some strong boundaries going forward. However, that is for a time in the future. Give us an update on your confrontation when she returned and we'll help as much as possible with the current issue. i disagree... in theory - she indicated that the fact that he MAY have a mini bar took preference over the priority of their relationship. either the mini bar is top priority or the relationship is low priority - which is it? either way it really sucks as she is messed up with either priority.
Church Bells Posted May 21, 2010 Posted May 21, 2010 i disagree... in theory - she indicated that the fact that he MAY have a mini bar took preference over the priority of their relationship. either the mini bar is top priority or the relationship is low priority - which is it? either way it really sucks as she is messed up with either priority. I think you are putting too much value in what his W "says" ... from my perspective, the mini-bar portion of her story was just an excuse to "minimize" her involvement. If Blindsided (and others) are correct ... there was likely NO mini-bar ... there were likely NO female co-workers present ... she likely did NOT sleep on the sofa bed. These were just concocted out of her imagination to "minimize" what she was REALLY doing.
lonestar190 Posted May 21, 2010 Posted May 21, 2010 I think people are ovverreacting to this situation, which is not out of place given the consistent topic of these forums. Honestly OP, given what you have said in your multiple threads, I don't think she cheated on you at all.
Mimolicious Posted May 21, 2010 Posted May 21, 2010 Why did your W tell you anything in the first place? She could have just keep her mouth shut and say nothing about her trip! I dont get it... 1. Either the guilt is killing her and yes, she wanted to give the skinny version of things. 2. She has a serious lack of good judgement along with a drinking problem. Blindsideagainalive- You are such a riot! I you!
Author ss1 Posted May 22, 2010 Author Posted May 22, 2010 Update for you all. She and I had a good discussion the evening she returned. She was remorseful for the stupid and complete lack of judgement she used. In fact she disclosed to me all the individuals involved including the male that was involved. I know him very well and his wife very well and he also said it was a complete lack of good judgement. Even with that all said she completely agrees with how I would feel as she would feel the same in reverse. We have agree mutually that no matter the situation that you return to your hotel room or bed by yourself. That the amount of drinking consuming while out on business will be removed as it was just so inappropriate and put her career at risk and her family and marriage at risk. She also stated that no text messages anymore and an open call to the other is appropriate to settle the feelings that she has put in me because of the situation, understanding that it is only human to feel concern. So for now we are good and we will continue forward. Thank you to all that gave me different points of view; extreme, not to worry, and remain cautious.
2sunny Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 Update for you all. She and I had a good discussion the evening she returned. She was remorseful for the stupid and complete lack of judgement she used. In fact she disclosed to me all the individuals involved including the male that was involved. I know him very well and his wife very well and he also said it was a complete lack of good judgement. Even with that all said she completely agrees with how I would feel as she would feel the same in reverse. We have agree mutually that no matter the situation that you return to your hotel room or bed by yourself. That the amount of drinking consuming while out on business will be removed as it was just so inappropriate and put her career at risk and her family and marriage at risk. She also stated that no text messages anymore and an open call to the other is appropriate to settle the feelings that she has put in me because of the situation, understanding that it is only human to feel concern. So for now we are good and we will continue forward. Thank you to all that gave me different points of view; extreme, not to worry, and remain cautious. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: oh brother... she gave you lip service to make you go away - and YOU believed her without checking on her alibis? man, you are one EASY dude aren't you? she's got you right where she wants you - did she blow you too - when she got home, or better yet, mind blowing sex to make you happy and quiet? yep, that's what usually happens when a gal is guilty... i'd bet money she came home and made you all"happy" to see her so you would forgive more easily... it's really called "manipulation" which is a blatant form of lying - AGAIN.
Church Bells Posted May 22, 2010 Posted May 22, 2010 In fact she disclosed to me all the individuals involved including the male that was involved. I know him very well and his wife very well and he also said it was a complete lack of good judgement. If it were me ... and it was ... so I understand the whilwind of emotions and thoughts you are experiencing ... I believe it would be prudent to have TWO chats with this guy's W. The 1st chat should be unknown to the parties involved to inform her of her H's and your W's behavior, with a follow up conversation with her after she confronts her H about his "complete lack of good judgement". This would serve two purposes ... it should help flesh out any remaining "truths" that may be left to trickle out later ... and most importantly, YOU take a strong stand as a potential BH by having his W watch his future behavior as I'm sure you will be watching your W's. All parties will know that you no longer trust blindly ... and ... will take action if threatened. Also, after those two conversations ... assuming nothing further continues or comes out ... I believe I would establish a personal boundary for you and your W that NEITHER of you will have any further contact FOR LIFE with this guy or his W going forward. Your W needs to understand that there are consequences for a "complete lack of good judgment". Good Luck!!!
Author ss1 Posted May 23, 2010 Author Posted May 23, 2010 2sunny & Church Bells; Just to fill in information. 2sunny non of those actions happened upon her return. I took a very straight forward and straight on discussion. I broke the entire story down into small granular details. I as well work for the same company she does and work in a different group but at a higher level. I know the gentlemen, the co-workers she was with and their general attitudes. I have been at the company longer than many of them. After hearing it all out, how she approach is afterward. I that she hasn't done anything like this in the past to create a doubt of her trust this round. She also openly and willing agreed to my suggestions to assure each other next time she is on travel, next time she is with co-workers. Gentlemen yes you can be burned and yes she could have done something completely outside what she has communicated. I will know for a fact even more so in only a few hours when I go to the office and sit down with the individuals, whom I know. If more ever comes of this situation you will see this thread return to the top.
2sunny Posted May 23, 2010 Posted May 23, 2010 2sunny & Church Bells; Just to fill in information. 2sunny non of those actions happened upon her return. I took a very straight forward and straight on discussion. I broke the entire story down into small granular details. I as well work for the same company she does and work in a different group but at a higher level. I know the gentlemen, the co-workers she was with and their general attitudes. I have been at the company longer than many of them. After hearing it all out, how she approach is afterward. I that she hasn't done anything like this in the past to create a doubt of her trust this round. She also openly and willing agreed to my suggestions to assure each other next time she is on travel, next time she is with co-workers. Gentlemen yes you can be burned and yes she could have done something completely outside what she has communicated. I will know for a fact even more so in only a few hours when I go to the office and sit down with the individuals, whom I know. If more ever comes of this situation you will see this thread return to the top. i think you're being naive... she had a lot of time to compose her position. you believe her and that is good enough for you - i wish you well... i still don't think you have all the story - or even half the real story.
jnj express Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 Your wife has a major problem with alcohol---she got drunk, in a bar, and then went to another man's room looking for more alcohol. Why did they sleep there--why didn't they get a taxi to their own hotel. Other point which you will never know is how do you really know what went on in that room---You will never know if there was sex or not. You don't even know for sure how many men were there!!!!!!! Maybe if she can't keep out of bars, she shouldn't be going out on her own. To the poster who referred back to 1958---what are you talking about---this is a married woman, who took VOWS, that MEANS she doesn't go off messing around in bars----nobody forced her to get married, but when she agreed to get married--she AGREED to live by certain standards----one of them is not to put the mge., in jeopardy---by going to bars--she is putting herself, and her family in harms way---and don't try to spin it any other way----IF YOU WANNA PLAY, AND GO TO BARS STAY SINGLE!!!!!!!!
Samantha0905 Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 It depends. Does this happen a lot, or is it the first time? This was a good question and apparently the answer was frequently. Not good. Married women shouldn't be out drinking without their husbands. At least not more than one drink as needed for business gatherings/meetings. That's pretty archaic. Wow. Welcome to 1958. Indeed. She has been out and ended up spending time at the toilet; if you get my drift, but again assumed she returned to the her room. That sounds like a drinking problem. I haven't thrown up from drinking since teenage years/early 20s. In any event, I didn't get the feeling your wife had been doing anything with the male fellow employee. It does sound like she wants to be out and about partying more often than at home. I see no problem with a girls' night out, but if she's sleeping in the hotel room of a man -- not good at all. That's very poor judgment on her part. Sorry when I am drunk as a skunk I know what I am doing, going, and attempting to accomplish. And if you are aware you aren't doing anything and sleeping on a sofabed and sending a text you have enough know how to know it was wrong at so many levels. Get a cab. right? Yes. Right. Get a cab or go back to your room. For that matter, don't hang out in hotel rooms with fellow male employees.
Church Bells Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 Gentlemen yes you can be burned and yes she could have done something completely outside what she has communicated. I will know for a fact even more so in only a few hours when I go to the office and sit down with the individuals, whom I know. I really hope that your situation turns out to be the "exception" to the normal rules. Good Luck on your office confrontations. She also openly and willing agreed to my suggestions to assure each other next time she is on travel, next time she is with co-workers. I hope the above means that you are at least going to insist on some "extraordinary precautions" ... like I posted earlier ... for her on upcoming overnight business travel. I know you want to believe her version of the story ... WE ALL DID ... and maybe yours is the exception ... but PLEASE understand that you may have dodged a bullet this time and need to view your W's behaviors differently going forward. Her behavior raises HUGE WAVING RED FLAGS ... and while there may be acceptable explanations ... you need to be on high alert to insure this doesn't become a pattern. Two last thoughts ... regardless of how you feel about your W's behavior, I think it would be prudent to share the events of the night in question with this guys wife ... AND ... I would make it perfectly clear to your W that there will not be any more socializing with this particular guy EVER again. Regardless of whether or not anything physical happened ... BOTH still exhibited very poor judgment ... and these minimal disclosures and restrictions are simply the consequences of their poor judgment.
Mimolicious Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 Sadly but truly... the topic at hand stays the same. "Am I getting the whole story?" is still the question of the hour.
lonestar190 Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: oh brother... she gave you lip service to make you go away - and YOU believed her without checking on her alibis? man, you are one EASY dude aren't you? she's got you right where she wants you - did she blow you too - when she got home, or better yet, mind blowing sex to make you happy and quiet? yep, that's what usually happens when a gal is guilty... i'd bet money she came home and made you all"happy" to see her so you would forgive more easily... it's really called "manipulation" which is a blatant form of lying - AGAIN. Actually, its not what usually happens al all when a gal is guilty. She wasn't defensive, didn't argue, agreed to change her behaviour, and understood her Husband's point of view. In addition, she disclosed the names of all the individuals involved, a huge no-no to someone trying to hide something. Sorry, but this is the type of thinking that creates as many problems in relationships as does actual cheating. Her story is consistent, open, and sounds pretty honest. Yet you continue to talk as if she already is guilty of having sex despite most of the evidence indicating the opposite. And for all the people going on about the taxi, an intoxicated woman at 2:30 a.m. in a foreign city should NOT get a taxi alone. Most women know this. Staying with friends is much safer and preferrable. OP, way to go staying calm and rational rather than jumping on the bandwagon of many of the posters that decided she was already guilty of cheating.
lonestar190 Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 To the poster who referred back to 1958---what are you talking about---this is a married woman, who took VOWS, that MEANS she doesn't go off messing around in bars----nobody forced her to get married, but when she agreed to get married--she AGREED to live by certain standards----one of them is not to put the mge., in jeopardy---by going to bars--she is putting herself, and her family in harms way---and don't try to spin it any other way----IF YOU WANNA PLAY, AND GO TO BARS STAY SINGLE!!!!!!!! What are you talking about? There are no wedding vows saying I won't go to bars. I am in a long term relationship and I go to bars with friends of both sexes. When I travel home to see old friends, I go out with them. I will continue to do it after I get married. Going to bars does not automatically put a marriage in jeapordy.
Owl Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 Going to bars does not automatically put a marriage in jeapordy. I think here's where you'll see a number of BS's who have been through the pain of finding out about their spouse's infidelity will disagree with you somewhat. Going to bars with members of the opposite sex, and without your spouse absolutely poses a potential risk to your marriage. It creates a situation where drinking can impair your inhibitions and judgement, and cause you to not maintain appropriate boundaries to protect your marriage. Especially if this occurs during one of the inevitable 'down times' that occur in any long term relationship. I would say that going to bars doesn't automatically mean you'll cheat on your spouse...don't take me wrong. But it DOES increase the risk of it happening.
lonestar190 Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 I think here's where you'll see a number of BS's who have been through the pain of finding out about their spouse's infidelity will disagree with you somewhat. Going to bars with members of the opposite sex, and without your spouse absolutely poses a potential risk to your marriage. It creates a situation where drinking can impair your inhibitions and judgement, and cause you to not maintain appropriate boundaries to protect your marriage. Especially if this occurs during one of the inevitable 'down times' that occur in any long term relationship. I would say that going to bars doesn't automatically mean you'll cheat on your spouse...don't take me wrong. But it DOES increase the risk of it happening. Definitely agree, but the post I quoted (and several others here) are blowing it a little out of proportion. All I was trying to point out is that the broad statements of her definitely cheating, have a drinking problem, and being a bad wife are really not supported by the evidence. Going out to bars increases the chance of cheating, sure. But going out with a couple of girlfriends and meeting up with a good guy friend is not making it a sure thing by any means. Her story adds up, makes sense, and her actions have been that of a person with nothing to really hide. I feel like some of the posters here are so attuned to cheating (and/or hurt by it) that they are quick to jump on any uncomfortable situation as a sure sign of cheating. This can actually hurt the posters ability to reasonably deal with the situation. Example - see the post talking about the sexual acts his wife "must" have done with the other guy. Not helpful in any way.
Owl Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 I tend to agree with you for the most part, Lonestar. There's not enough info at this point to truly say that she was cheating...and I would agree with you that she may well not have done so. It may have gone down exactly as she described. If I were the original poster...I wouldn't take any ACTION based on what he's written so far...but I most certainly would be paying much closer attention to what she says/does for a good while going forward. Any OTHER signs would cause me to seriously investigate more.
Mimolicious Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 And can we all agree that there is a drinking issue at hand? This can be the huge crack in their foundation. She may be getting a bit too drunk and not know what she is doing, while out alone.
Owl Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 I agree, and I believe that the OP did as well, since he stated: That the amount of drinking consuming while out on business will be removed as it was just so inappropriate and put her career at risk and her family and marriage at risk. Hence, they're going to try to nip that issue in the bud as well.
lonestar190 Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 And can we all agree that there is a drinking issue at hand? This can be the huge crack in their foundation. She may be getting a bit too drunk and not know what she is doing, while out alone. Again, there really isn't enough evidence to say so. And she wasn't out alone. She got drunk. Thats all we know. She was cognitive enough to let her husband know where she was and what she was doing. We know she has been drunk in the past. But so have I. Looking at what the OP has actually said about her drinking: She has no past history of doing something so stupid that I am aware, but I am hurt, and concerned for her and it hurts that this damages the ultimate trust I have in her. This pushed me to question her state of mind when she goes drinking.. No past history of doing something so stupud I have gone out with co-workers and had a good time drinking and taken to the limit, but I have always made it back to my bed hell or high water. They both go out drinking with co-workers. Taken to the limit is how the OP describes his own drinking. She has been out before drinking heavily with co-workers getting sloshed but never told me anything like this before. I have always assumed she return to her room and called it a night. She has been out and ended up spending time at the toilet; if you get my drift, but again assumed she returned to the her room. She has been out drinking before and it was not an issue then. She got sick. Some people get sick from drinking easier than others. There is no indication here how often it happens or that the OP had any issues with it in the past. No indication she was hiding it either. I think it important that we express to each other what our expectations are as it relates to drinking with co-worker, friends, etc. and set some general boundaries we can both agree to. If she is willing to go along with that then we will see where it goes. Never been discussed as an issue. That the amount of drinking consuming while out on business will be removed as it was just so inappropriate and put her career at risk and her family and marriage at risk. Complete willingness to remove the drinking if it is a problem in the relationship. Sorry, the story points to a couple that, up to this point, were okay with the other spouse going out and drinking. When it became an issue, the W agreed to stop and admitted it might not be the best choice. Further, there is no indication that it is happening on a weekly basis. Just that it has happened before. I can remember several times that my current gf was sick from drinking, once without me. But it wasn't every weekend. As a poster said earlier, probably not so much a drinking problem but instead just immaturity. I play softball 2-3 times a week, but I don't have a softball problem, and it if started to effect my relationship, I could give it up. A drinking problem generally involves hiding, inability to control, denial of an issue, and resistance to changing of behavior. None of that is present here.
2sunny Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 Again, there really isn't enough evidence to say so. And she wasn't out alone. She got drunk. Thats all we know. She was cognitive enough to let her husband know where she was and what she was doing. We know she has been drunk in the past. But so have I. Looking at what the OP has actually said about her drinking: No past history of doing something so stupud They both go out drinking with co-workers. Taken to the limit is how the OP describes his own drinking. She has been out drinking before and it was not an issue then. She got sick. Some people get sick from drinking easier than others. There is no indication here how often it happens or that the OP had any issues with it in the past. No indication she was hiding it either. Never been discussed as an issue. Complete willingness to remove the drinking if it is a problem in the relationship. Sorry, the story points to a couple that, up to this point, were okay with the other spouse going out and drinking. When it became an issue, the W agreed to stop and admitted it might not be the best choice. Further, there is no indication that it is happening on a weekly basis. Just that it has happened before. I can remember several times that my current gf was sick from drinking, once without me. But it wasn't every weekend. As a poster said earlier, probably not so much a drinking problem but instead just immaturity. I play softball 2-3 times a week, but I don't have a softball problem, and it if started to effect my relationship, I could give it up. A drinking problem generally involves hiding, inability to control, denial of an issue, and resistance to changing of behavior. None of that is present here. lonestar - i am confused as to why you are so adamantly supportive of her bad behavior. she may or may not have cheated - but the behavior alone raises a number of red flags that you have overlooked. the fact remains that the behavior sends out the wrong message to the guy she was with that night - and makes it appear that she's willing to be disrespectful and disregarding of the OP's relationship for the evening... just to be with the guy she went out with. this is not a situation that should be encouraged by discounting what she did - why are you so willing to defend such behavior when it only causes hurt, pain and questions to the OP?
lonestar190 Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 (edited) lonestar - i am confused as to why you are so adamantly supportive of her bad behavior. she may or may not have cheated - but the behavior alone raises a number of red flags that you have overlooked. the fact remains that the behavior sends out the wrong message to the guy she was with that night - and makes it appear that she's willing to be disrespectful and disregarding of the OP's relationship for the evening... just to be with the guy she went out with. this is not a situation that should be encouraged by discounting what she did - why are you so willing to defend such behavior when it only causes hurt, pain and questions to the OP? What red flags? Really. Looking at the facts and not extrapolating more everything can be explained, is believable, and her behavior confirms this. She goes out drinking with coworkers as she has done in the past and to which her husband as not objected or said anything about in the past. He does it as well. She goes with 2 girls and meets a guy from work, of whom she knows well and the husband knows well (and they all work together). The bars close around 1:45-2, at which point they probably want to continue hanging out, and he suggests his hotel room which is close and probably has a mini bar. My gf and I live downtown in our city and at the end of an evening invite people back to our place to continue hanging out and we open a bottle of wine. I guess everyone who comes to our place cheats. News to me - OR her female friends wanted to go hang out and she wasn't comfortable trying to get home alone in a strange city by taking a cab at 2 a.m. alone while intoxicated - OR one of her female friends was trying to hook up with the guy but didn't want to go to his room alone (common situation for women) She texts that she is going to sleep at 2:41 a.m. Consistent with the bars closing at 1:45 - 2. Again, women don't like taking cabs alone at 2:30 a.m. in foreign cities. She crashes with her friends. People do this at our apartment. Guess I know a lot of cheaters. Unprovoked, she tells her husband the next day what happened. Upon return, she tells her husband who she was with, knowing her husband can easily find the truth if it is otherwise. She agrees it was a poor decision and, after their first talk regarding drinking and boundaries, agrees to change her behavior. She could cheat, but I suppose my gf could be cheating when she doesn’t answer her phone at the office. But the easiest answer, and the one that makes the most sense, is that she did not. Your earlier posts about how she was blowing the other guy shows that your mind is already made up despite no really good evidence. FYI: I don’t support her behavior nor am I against it. That is for her relationship to decide. You putting your values on a relationship that up till now had other values is what clouds your judgment. You decided that her bahaviour was 'bad', but thats not your decision to make. Up till now her husband was okay with it. As soon as he is not, she stops. Seems fine to me. And what message did she send out to the guy? You said "makes it appear that she's willing to be disrespectful and disregarding of the OP's relationship for the evening... just to be with the guy she went out with." - These are your words, not hers. There are a great many ways that the events could occur without this ever being indicated. In fact, quite the opposite could easily happen. Don't decide what was said or indicated from a few bare facts. Edited May 24, 2010 by lonestar190
Author ss1 Posted May 25, 2010 Author Posted May 25, 2010 lonestar190 - thank you for your support in my approach and thinking. I think it fair to clarify my thinking method and actions. 1.) Avoiding to jump to conclusion is safe for you and your relationships 2.) Have clear and undeniable proof when confronting 3.) It is important to express your feelings about a situation and how you mind wants to interpret the situation; have your partner share in the feelings/pain you are experience and that you want their help to calm their feelings. If they don't want to help own the results of their actions on your feelings then you need counseling period just to address that issue. 4.) Make sure they put themselves in your shoes with discussing and ask how they would react, and what assurances they would want. 5.) Come to agreement to adjust each others (together not a one way street) how you'll support your commitment to each other. My wife has agreed to help in every area as I stated. She came clean with everyone involved, and I know where each is. They know me very well and know that I can make their life difficult if I felt was necessary. She was remorseful for the situation and knows it was really stupid on her part, and had no issue with me discussing the issue around any of the parties involved. I would agree that there are many on this forum that seem to jump to the worst conclusion, but I appreciate their candid feedback and ensure that I look at the situation from every possible angle. This ensuring that I don't hide and dismiss any feelings I will carry. Take care,
Church Bells Posted May 25, 2010 Posted May 25, 2010 She came clean with everyone involved, and I know where each is. They know me very well and know that I can make their life difficult if I felt was necessary. She was remorseful for the situation and knows it was really stupid on her part, and had no issue with me discussing the issue around any of the parties involved. So what was the substance of your discussions with the sales guy and two female subordinates?
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