This week's counseling session......

May 26, 2010

I meant he couldn't "fix" it and "lewd."

May 26, 2010

Sam, did you ever consider that maybe YOUR thinking is what is causing your problems? Every time any poster even suggests that you open up to your husband, you find reasons not to , and reasons to evade. If you aren't attracted to him, for Godssake tell him so. Why do you hide everything? I sometimes even feel that you are lying to us posters, about trying to re-connect with your H, and that deep down, you want the marriage to fail.. You SAY you want a relationship with communication, but the truly important issues, you keep from him. There is a pattern of deceit here that is really frustrating to try and help you through. Your H , now thinks that he is trying and making progress, but if he knew your real thoughts, would he even bother?

May 26, 2010

Sam, did you ever consider that maybe YOUR thinking is what is causing your problems? Every time any poster even suggests that you open up to your husband, you find reasons not to , and reasons to evade. If you aren't attracted to him, for Godssake tell him so. Why do you hide everything? I sometimes even feel that you are lying to us posters, about trying to re-connect with your H, and that deep down, you want the marriage to fail.. You SAY you want a relationship with communication, but the truly important issues, you keep from him. There is a pattern of deceit here that is really frustrating to try and help you through. Your H , now thinks that he is trying and making progress, but if he knew your real thoughts, would he even bother?

Why should she open up to a man with such crazy behaviour. He will never change because he will never realize that he has a problem. And that councellor of his is just telling him all the time that Samantha is wrong, giving him assignments for her. ??? What kind of councellor is that?

Also, he is member of a golf club who discriminates on gender and race, what woman wants anno 2010 be married to a man like that?

Samantha's H has a lot of personal work to do and as long as he does not do that, she will not feel good in her marriage.

May 26, 2010

Sam, did you ever consider that maybe YOUR thinking is what is causing your problems? Every time any poster even suggests that you open up to your husband, you find reasons not to , and reasons to evade. If you aren't attracted to him, for Godssake tell him so. Why do you hide everything? I sometimes even feel that you are lying to us posters, about trying to re-connect with your H, and that deep down, you want the marriage to fail.. You SAY you want a relationship with communication, but the truly important issues, you keep from him. There is a pattern of deceit here that is really frustrating to try and help you through. Your H , now thinks that he is trying and making progress, but if he knew your real thoughts, would he even bother?

What OP has "left out" are all the important details about the "backstory" to this marriage. She has referenced it but she did not really go into any details.

Ten years into the marriage--I guess about 15 years ago--her husband walked out on her. She also said at that time, they worked on some things to liven up their sex lives, and he came back to her. But nothing much changed.

She has never really said why he walked out on her.

The way she describes her husband makes it seem very likely that he is the type of man who would feel "entitled" to have affairs with other women. Maybe not now, but perhaps in the past. Everything in its place--boring sex-withholding wifey at home, and a hot girlfriend on the side (probably just like all his drinking buddies at the racist golf club).

Ten years into the marriage would have been a likely time for the husband to have felt that kind of "itch" and scratched it--especially given that she claims never to have loved her husband or been sexually attracted to him, just going through the motions. Her lack of respect for her husband translates into her belief that he is some kind of unintelligent fool, that he doesn't "realize" her lack of deep feelings for him. That somehow her dissatisfaction with the marriage was not/is not shared by her husband. This would also tie into OP's lack of ability to empathize/lack of insight to how her husband might actually feel about all this, her ability to justify a double standard of demanding "communication" from him while keeping secrets from him.

The husband may be putting up with all this stuff from OP right now because of guilt over walking out on her all those years ago. Esp. if it was for an OW of his own. It's funny that OP probably does not even contemplate this as a real possibility. She just doesn't perceive him as sexually attractive, but admits that other women find him attractive. It's a simple matter of putting 2 and 2 together.

The explosive anger? Well if he's been sexually frustrated for the entire marriage I can easily see that being expressed at inappropriate times, as when he's tired and has had too much to drink. Such as at the daughter's wedding reception. OP doesn't "understand" why her husband gets explosively angry. There's no apparent reason for it.

But, there's always a reason. (I wonder if OP ever bothered to ask her husband why he gets angry like this from time to time?)

The only possible reason I could see that a man like this would not divorce his wife after she leaves him and has an affair with another man, then comes back but denies sex to him in what to him would be perceived as a punitive manner, is that he did it to her first.

It's his "payback" for walking out on his wife, and the school age kids, 15 years ago to be with his hot young OW. He's a conservative Christian and when you have sinned you better be prepared to take your punishment "like a man."

May 26, 2010

Sam, did you ever consider that maybe YOUR thinking is what is causing your problems? Every time any poster even suggests that you open up to your husband, you find reasons not to , and reasons to evade. If you aren't attracted to him, for Godssake tell him so. Why do you hide everything? I sometimes even feel that you are lying to us posters, about trying to re-connect with your H, and that deep down, you want the marriage to fail.. You SAY you want a relationship with communication, but the truly important issues, you keep from him. There is a pattern of deceit here that is really frustrating to try and help you through. Your H , now thinks that he is trying and making progress, but if he knew your real thoughts, would he even bother?

I agree. If she doesn't want to work on the marriage then get out.

May 26, 2010

Sam, did you ever consider that maybe YOUR thinking is what is causing your problems? Every time any poster even suggests that you open up to your husband, you find reasons not to , and reasons to evade. If you aren't attracted to him, for Godssake tell him so. Why do you hide everything? I sometimes even feel that you are lying to us posters, about trying to re-connect with your H, and that deep down, you want the marriage to fail.. You SAY you want a relationship with communication, but the truly important issues, you keep from him. There is a pattern of deceit here that is really frustrating to try and help you through. Your H , now thinks that he is trying and making progress, but if he knew your real thoughts, would he even bother?

QFT

The considerate thing to do would be to let him go, so BOTH of them could find the right person.

May 26, 2010

Sometimes I wish my husband would put his foot down and be more adamant about something having to change. It's very difficult to express myself to someone who is being constantly nice to me regardless of what I do -- moving out, no sex, etc. I know that sounds crazy -- but it is.

Actually, this doesn't sound crazy. People don't take the time to realize this, but here's something to consider. A woman can't respect a man who DOESN'T put his foot down when he should. He seems weak, wishy-washy.

And a woman can't fall in love with a man she doesn't respect in that fashion. It's the way that they're built. A woman typically falls in love with a man who creates that respect.

You're not seeing your husband put his foot down...so you lose respect for him. The more you lose respect, the less love you feel.

Harsh...but probably what's happening.

Thank you Owl. I definitely know I'm doing things half-heartedly and it is where I've been this entire time. Thanks for taking the time to type that out. I don't know if I can put my heart into TRULY working to rebuild my marriage. I don't know how to do that if I do not truly want to have sex with him at all. Perhaps that's my answer.

I think there are a few more indicators for you. JustJoe commented:

Sam, did you ever consider that maybe YOUR thinking is what is causing your problems? Every time any poster even suggests that you open up to your husband, you find reasons not to , and reasons to evade. If you aren't attracted to him, for Godssake tell him so. Why do you hide everything? I sometimes even feel that you are lying to us posters, about trying to re-connect with your H, and that deep down, you want the marriage to fail.. You SAY you want a relationship with communication, but the truly important issues, you keep from him. There is a pattern of deceit here that is really frustrating to try and help you through. Your H , now thinks that he is trying and making progress, but if he knew your real thoughts, would he even bother?

I think he's right. I believe that you simply don't want to try to rebuild your marriage...but you're trying to go through the steps so that you can say that you did later. (that's not an attack, I'm not saying it's deliberate, but it does appear to be what's happening)

The advice that all of us have given about improving communication, about being honest and telling the truth...has all been summarily dismissed. The problem is...you expect your H to be honest with you...when you can't/won't be honest with him.

Not gonna work, my friend. That's a surefire way to sabotage any efforts at reconciliation here.

You're defeating your own 'attempts' at trying to rebuild your marriage.

This is why I keep suggesting to you that you stop...simply stop trying to rebuild/repair your marriage.

Because your efforts are half-hearted at best, and self-defeating in the way that you're executing.

Again, this isn't a personal attack...I'm just telling you what your actions are accomplishing.

Your REAL decision here is to decide if you're actually going to put the effort into REALLY trying to rebuild...which means doing all these things we've urged and you've avoided...or are you going to admit to yourself what you're doing and why, and stop wasting the time and effort going into 'faking it'?

Again, I'm not saying you're doing this out of any kind of malicious intent...I think you're doing it without even thinking about it.

May 26, 2010

Sam, did you ever consider that maybe YOUR thinking is what is causing your problems? Every time any poster even suggests that you open up to your husband, you find reasons not to , and reasons to evade. If you aren't attracted to him, for Godssake tell him so. Why do you hide everything? I sometimes even feel that you are lying to us posters, about trying to re-connect with your H, and that deep down, you want the marriage to fail.. You SAY you want a relationship with communication, but the truly important issues, you keep from him. There is a pattern of deceit here that is really frustrating to try and help you through. Your H , now thinks that he is trying and making progress, but if he knew your real thoughts, would he even bother?

Of course I know my thinking contributes to the problem. I'm certainly convinced I don't enjoy the sex. I've often thought -- or wondered -- if there is a way to change my thinking on it or if it is just what it is. I don't know if it's possible. I even asked a friend if she thought hypnotherapy would help.

I like how everyone says just announce to him I'm not attracted to him. How will that help our marriage? It seems to me that would just be a blow to him. And please -- I've heard the tell him the truth so he can decide to stay or go argument. I told him about the affair after everyone urged me to do so and I'm still convinced I shouldn't have told him. It really doesn't serve a purpose.

And as for my husband feeling he is making progress -- trust me -- neither of us thinks progress is being made here.

May 26, 2010

It probably will not help the marriage but it might put it out of it's misery.

May 26, 2010

It probably will not help the marriage but it might put it out of it's misery.

Well, Woggle -- that may be your focus -- but it's not mine. I'm not interested in all the negativity.

And Joe, I meant to add in my reply to you above:

If I could push the magic button and make myself "think" whatever I think would be best in a situation, that would be wonderful. I don't think many people are able to accomplish that feat. I understand there is cognitive behavioral therapy to help people with faulty thinking patterns, but I don't think they use it to help someone be attracted to another person. I believe that's caused "Love Potion #9" -- .

May 26, 2010

Why should she open up to a man with such crazy behaviour. He will never change because he will never realize that he has a problem. And that councellor of his is just telling him all the time that Samantha is wrong, giving him assignments for her. ??? What kind of councellor is that?
Also, he is member of a golf club who discriminates on gender and race, what woman wants anno 2010 be married to a man like that?

Samantha's H has a lot of personal work to do and as long as he does not do that, she will not feel good in her marriage.

I agree about the assignments and have told my counselor I resent being sent assignments.

May 26, 2010

What OP has "left out" are all the important details about the "backstory" to this marriage. She has referenced it but she did not really go into any details.

Ten years into the marriage--I guess about 15 years ago--her husband walked out on her. She also said at that time, they worked on some things to liven up their sex lives, and he came back to her. But nothing much changed.

I can only respond to you in brief due to the nature of your posts (you make stuff up) -- but he did not walk out on me 15 years ago. I asked him to move out.

She has never really said why he walked out on her.

Craziness -- telling me I couldn't drink wine, had to go to church, etc. And he didnt walk out.

The way she describes her husband makes it seem very likely that he is the type of man who would feel "entitled" to have affairs with other women. Maybe not now, but perhaps in the past. Everything in its place--boring sex-withholding wifey at home, and a hot girlfriend on the side (probably just like all his drinking buddies at the racist golf club).

Way off base.

Ten years into the marriage would have been a likely time for the husband to have felt that kind of "itch" and scratched it--especially given that she claims never to have loved her husband or been sexually attracted to him, just going through the motions. Her lack of respect for her husband translates into her belief that he is some kind of unintelligent fool, that he doesn't "realize" her lack of deep feelings for him. That somehow her dissatisfaction with the marriage was not/is not shared by her husband. This would also tie into OP's lack of ability to empathize/lack of insight to how her husband might actually feel about all this, her ability to justify a double standard of demanding "communication" from him while keeping secrets from him.

I actually do empathize with his feelings here and feel guilty about making him unhappy.

The husband may be putting up with all this stuff from OP right now because of guilt over walking out on her all those years ago. Esp. if it was for an OW of his own.

LOL -- he didn't walk out. You are such a silly man.

It's funny that OP probably does not even contemplate this as a real possibility. She just doesn't perceive him as sexually attractive, but admits that other women find him attractive. It's a simple matter of putting 2 and 2 together.

Doy. I know other women are attracted to him. As of yet, he has not had an affair. I seriously don't think he would. He'd leave first.

The explosive anger? Well if he's been sexually frustrated for the entire marriage I can easily see that being expressed at inappropriate times, as when he's tired and has had too much to drink. Such as at the daughter's wedding reception. OP doesn't "understand" why her husband gets explosively angry. There's no apparent reason for it.

You're goofy.

But, there's always a reason. (I wonder if OP ever bothered to ask her husband why he gets angry like this from time to time?)

Definitely have. He's non-communicative and says he's sorry and doesn't mean to do it.

The only possible reason I could see that a man like this would not divorce his wife after she leaves him and has an affair with another man, then comes back but denies sex to him in what to him would be perceived as a punitive manner, is that he did it to her first.

*sigh* He didn't even bring up sex until a couple of weeks ago. I haven't been constantly denying him sex.

It's his "payback" for walking out on his wife, and the school age kids, 15 years ago to be with his hot young OW. He's a conservative Christian and when you have sinned you better be prepared to take your punishment "like a man."

Note to others: Another entirely made up post about my life from a poster who doesn't even know the real story. It amazes me how you make things up and then make comments about the story you just made up. Really?

Tp alert.

May 26, 2010

If you resent assignments that are ultimately intended to rebuild your marriage and potentially restore your marital 'intimate' relationship...what does that tell you?

Again...either choose to REALLY work on the marriage...or choose to take steps to end it.

You're keep saying you're not ready to end it....but you're also insisting on not taking the actions needed to fix it.

What you're really doing is nothing. Nothing to fix the marriage, nothing to end the marriage.

You're hoping that this whole thing will resolve itself without any action from you.

What exactly are you hoping to hear from posters here on LS?

May 26, 2010

Actually, this doesn't sound crazy. People don't take the time to realize this, but here's something to consider. A woman can't respect a man who DOESN'T put his foot down when he should. He seems weak, wishy-washy.

And a woman can't fall in love with a man she doesn't respect in that fashion. It's the way that they're built. A woman typically falls in love with a man who creates that respect.

You're not seeing your husband put his foot down...so you lose respect for him. The more you lose respect, the less love you feel.

Harsh...but probably what's happening.

I think there are a few more indicators for you. JustJoe commented:

I think he's right. I believe that you simply don't want to try to rebuild your marriage...but you're trying to go through the steps so that you can say that you did later. (that's not an attack, I'm not saying it's deliberate, but it does appear to be what's happening)

The advice that all of us have given about improving communication, about being honest and telling the truth...has all been summarily dismissed. The problem is...you expect your H to be honest with you...when you can't/won't be honest with him.

Not gonna work, my friend. That's a surefire way to sabotage any efforts at reconciliation here.

You're defeating your own 'attempts' at trying to rebuild your marriage.

This is why I keep suggesting to you that you stop...simply stop trying to rebuild/repair your marriage.

Because your efforts are half-hearted at best, and self-defeating in the way that you're executing.

Again, this isn't a personal attack...I'm just telling you what your actions are accomplishing.

Your REAL decision here is to decide if you're actually going to put the effort into REALLY trying to rebuild...which means doing all these things we've urged and you've avoided...or are you going to admit to yourself what you're doing and why, and stop wasting the time and effort going into 'faking it'?

Again, I'm not saying you're doing this out of any kind of malicious intent...I think you're doing it without even thinking about it.

i agree with this. respect is such a big factor in attraction.

i think to move out and consider the future on your own might give you clarity. to be honest with your H may not be possible until you have more clarity by being on your own. it's hard to be honest with another if we truly aren't sure how we feel - so this may bring you some growth.

either way - to do nothing out of fear of change will certainly do nothing except keep you and your H stuck in a cycle of confusion and anger. a move would allow the distance mentally to process changes and approaching life in the future with or without being married. see how it goes - for you and for him. give it enough time to instill changes and what that looks like for you and for him - time to see what you want and what he may want... then take action on being honest with him once you are out.

if it feels good to be away - tell him. if it feels scary, or uncomfortable to be away - tell him that too. by being honest - you would be forcing the relationship to grow to its' next phase of development 0 whatever that is supposed to be when you stop the pretending.

May 26, 2010

Why should she open up to a man with such crazy behaviour. He will never change because he will never realize that he has a problem. And that councellor of his is just telling him all the time that Samantha is wrong, giving him assignments for her. ??? What kind of councellor is that?
Also, he is member of a golf club who discriminates on gender and race, what woman wants anno 2010 be married to a man like that?

Samantha's H has a lot of personal work to do and as long as he does not do that, she will not feel good in her marriage.

---------------------

The crazy behaviour dosn't happen that often and is not abusive, it is venting.. The church counselor wishes for Samantha to disclose what would make the two of them closer. The husband is there to help his marriage.. He's a successful man, why would he care about what is wrong with himself.

At another time I will get into woman's role / man's role.

May 26, 2010

A woman can't respect a man who DOESN'T put his foot down when he should. He seems weak, wishy-washy.

And a woman can't fall in love with a man she doesn't respect in that fashion. It's the way that they're built. A woman typically falls in love with a man who creates that respect.

You're not seeing your husband put his foot down...so you lose respect for him. The more you lose respect, the less love you feel.

QUOTE]

--------------------

This is the women's lib version.. Does not line up with God's intent for marriage.

May 26, 2010

Note to others: Another entirely made up post about my life from a poster who doesn't even know the real story. It amazes me how you make things up and then make comments about the story you just made up. Really?

QUOTE]

----------------------

I think people should ask questions about things they do not know or remember .. But should not adlib or asume things.

May 26, 2010

Sam,First off, I have no dog in this hunt. What you do is what you do. But, if you will look at your last few responses, to me, and other posters, you seem to automatically disagree with anyone , who counsels open-ness with your H. It's almost a knee-jerk reaction with you. Right now, you are being secretive , evasive, and un-responsive with your H. Have you had any positive results from this course of action? Examples are your unwillingness to share information from your IC sessions with him, your refusal to talk to him about the lack of attraction, and your continuing contact with the MM (which H doesn't know about). When you told H about the A, what happened? He began counselling. Every time you have been open with him, he has responded in a positive manner. What this should tell you is that openess works far better than continued deceit. I believe that if you would talk to him, like you talk to us, in a straight-forward, honest manner, pretty much all of your issues CAN be solved. Even the attraction issue. Your H is only human, he can't even try to help fix a problem that he doesn't know about.

May 26, 2010

BTW, I don't think that you are intentionally being evasive. It seems to be almost an unconscious thing. Maybe at your next session, you can discuss your motives with your counselor, maybe she will have some insight, I hope so.

May 26, 2010

This is the women's lib version.. Does not line up with God's intent for marriage.

I disagree. The Bible says that the man should be the "head" of the body of the marriage. That he should provide the leadership and guidance in the relationship. And the woman should respect him.

If he DOESN'T provide that leadership, she's not going to respect him.

(And this is exactly what we're seeing here)

He's not providing leadership, as a result she has no respect for him...and so her loves dwindles.

Had he followed the biblical roadmap for marriage...she would respect him, and her love for him could/would grow.

I don't see why you feel this doesn't fit?

May 26, 2010

...I think if samantha told him how she felt about him from since the begining of her marriage, then it would seriously cause her H to re-evaluate the whole marriage. maybe he would even leave her.

I mean why stay with a woman who's constantly fighting uphill, to not better herself with telling the truth.

You need to stop being defensive sam. Stop being smug, stop being sarcastic.

You dont seem to realize even now, your marriage is on the line!!!

IT'll all come to a head one day...you'll see.

May 26, 2010

..............question answered in another post

Edited May 26, 2010 by Dexter Morgan

May 26, 2010

I think I've described the scene after my daughter's wedding reception before. In any event, the reception was over at 11:00 and he wanted to go home. My daughter wanted some of her friends, us, my sister and a few other people to go downtown to a restaurant/bar to continue the celebration. She had a lovely wedding and was just honestly having a fun time. My husband didn't want to go and wanted me to not go. I told him it was fine if he didn't, but I wanted to go. It was my daughter's wedding! I only have one daughter and, hopefully, she'll only have one wedding.

He even tried to get my friends who had offered me a ride to just go on and leave me. When my good girlfriend said she couldn't do that because she had already promised me I could ride with her, he decided he would go.

Later at the place, within 30 minutes he wanted us to leave. I was not doing anything. I was sitting on a bar stool at a table with my daughter and about five of her girlfriends. I wasn't dancing with anyone or anything, I'm not a loud person, I wasn't being lewed, etc. I was laughing with my daughter and her friends.

Well, he proceeds to tell me we are leaving and to get up now. He really caused a scene in that restaurant and it was embarrassing. To this day, it's a bad memory associated with a beautiful occasion. Even my sister came to my side that night and told me I wasn't doing anything wrong and to stick to my guns -- which I did. I think we finally all left around 1:30 a.m. and he was livid -- more yelling and screaming. It's just too much craziness. He could have just gone home.

ok, you have said you weren't doing anything and described the things you were NOT doing.

So have there been problems with your behavior, or flirting, etc. at bars before? He seems to have a problem, by your description, with you at a bar or club. Is there a reason for this?

And you say he only gets like this maybe once every year and a half or so. So it doesn't sound like he has a problem. This would lead me to believe something happened in the past and he isn't comfortable with you at the bar.....again, by your description of things.

Oh -- and come to think of it -- one time he had one of these angry fits a year after my father died because I was crying over his death. I wasn't crying all the time, but it did make me sad for a while. I honestly thought he was angry because he couldn't "fit" it and so my tears frustrated him. It's strange.

now THAT one is unreasonable and strange.

May 26, 2010

Actually, this doesn't sound crazy. People don't take the time to realize this, but here's something to consider. A woman can't respect a man who DOESN'T put his foot down when he should. He seems weak, wishy-washy.

And a woman can't fall in love with a man she doesn't respect in that fashion. It's the way that they're built. A woman typically falls in love with a man who creates that respect.

You're not seeing your husband put his foot down...so you lose respect for him. The more you lose respect, the less love you feel.

Harsh...but probably what's happening.

I think there are a few more indicators for you. JustJoe commented:

I think he's right. I believe that you simply don't want to try to rebuild your marriage...but you're trying to go through the steps so that you can say that you did later. (that's not an attack, I'm not saying it's deliberate, but it does appear to be what's happening)

The advice that all of us have given about improving communication, about being honest and telling the truth...has all been summarily dismissed. The problem is...you expect your H to be honest with you...when you can't/won't be honest with him.

Not gonna work, my friend. That's a surefire way to sabotage any efforts at reconciliation here.

You're defeating your own 'attempts' at trying to rebuild your marriage.

This is why I keep suggesting to you that you stop...simply stop trying to rebuild/repair your marriage.

Because your efforts are half-hearted at best, and self-defeating in the way that you're executing.

Again, this isn't a personal attack...I'm just telling you what your actions are accomplishing.

Your REAL decision here is to decide if you're actually going to put the effort into REALLY trying to rebuild...which means doing all these things we've urged and you've avoided...or are you going to admit to yourself what you're doing and why, and stop wasting the time and effort going into 'faking it'?

Again, I'm not saying you're doing this out of any kind of malicious intent...I think you're doing it without even thinking about it.

I didn't take any of that as a personal attack. I simply don't see where announcing I'm not sexually attracted is going to help the marriage in any way.

May 26, 2010

I certainly hope so. Times have been getting better. Day by day as they say. I'm not looking at my M as a forever type of thing anymore as anything can happen and feelings can change.

My true test will be after the kids have left our home, they are still very young. Sometimes I wonder if I am just staying because of the kids or because I really want our M to work out, it is very confusing. If my H cheats again, it's over. I have come to that conclusion. I know I would be fine on my own, that my kids would adjust. I have no more fears. I want our M to either recover or end.

That's a long time to wait for your true test. Trust me, I know. I am glad things are getting better. I hope the two of you are able to work it out.

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