This week's counseling session......

[Samantha0905]

I don't think so, dude. Let's see ... using your analogy with food / hunger, a person with a big appetite for food but who was a diabetic would still eat a platter of cupcakes and risk death if no appropriate food was available. Or, less dramatic, a person with a big appetite who, by choice, is on a low carb diet will eat a loaf of bread if no appropriate food is available. Or the hungry vegetarian will eat a chicken. No. We humans have a lot of things playing upon our appetites at all times. Some of them we are conscious of, and some we are not.

 

Regarding sex, using your logic, a high libido person will have sex with some random stranger who comes onto him / her if their spouse is away. No. In fact, plenty of "high libido" people don't have sex with available people just because of different forces at play upon their sexuality, such as ethics, expectations of "love," etc.

 

There are many reasons NOT to have sex with an individual person, regardless of one's own libido. And most of them have NOTHING to do with the one who's not having sex having an extramarital affair.

 

Samantha, I completely understand where you are and my heart goes out to you.

 

Thank you! I appreciate it.

[Samantha0905]

So the disconnect occurred after you met OM?

 

No, not really. I felt disconnected from the lack of intimacy in the marriage. Obviously, the affair did not help things but the affair would not have happened had I felt connected and intimate with my husband. The affair was a symptom, not the cause of the problems in the marriage. They were already there.

[Owl]

Sam, I have to say that if you're truly feeling the way you've described about your husband, I cannot fathom why you haven't long since filed for divorce?

 

I don't get it.

 

If you're truly that unattracted to him, and it's clearly such an important thing to him...what the heck?

 

If you've never had "it" for him for all these years, then you're never going to have "it" for him.

 

Point blank...I believe that you can "re-kindle" desire when it's been lost...but what you describe here indicates it was never there at all to begin with.

 

Why drag this out any further?

 

It's giving him false hope, and leaving you miserable.

 

Pull the plug already.

 

And this is coming from a very 'pro-marriage' guy.

[Samantha0905]

Sam, I have to say that if you're truly feeling the way you've described about your husband, I cannot fathom why you haven't long since filed for divorce?

 

I don't get it.

 

If you're truly that unattracted to him, and it's clearly such an important thing to him...what the heck?

 

If you've never had "it" for him for all these years, then you're never going to have "it" for him.

 

Point blank...I believe that you can "re-kindle" desire when it's been lost...but what you describe here indicates it was never there at all to begin with.

 

Why drag this out any further?

 

It's giving him false hope, and leaving you miserable.

 

Pull the plug already.

 

And this is coming from a very 'pro-marriage' guy.

 

I'm a pro-marriage kind of person also even though I screwed up and had an affair. It may be difficult for some to believe, but I am. That's probably a large part of it. I feel like a marriage is supposed to last forever. My parents' marriage did.

 

I guess I feel like I'm the one doing the bad thing here if I leave my marriage. Plus, my children really are very close to us.

 

On the other hand, I appreciate what you've said Owl because I wonder if that sexual attraction is ever going to be there -- and highly doubt that it will. I don't know what to do with it all.

 

Do I just announce (?), "Hey, I can't be married anymore. I need to live on my own and I don't want to go into all the details. I'm simply not happy and have not been for a long time."

 

I suppose there's no way to deal with it all without someone being hurt -- well, without both of us feeling a great loss -- but since I'm not wanting to or feeling like I can go along with the sex thing anymore -- perhaps it has to end.

 

This is not a very nice place to be.

[turnera]

No, not really. I felt disconnected from the lack of intimacy in the marriage. Obviously, the affair did not help things but the affair would not have happened had I felt connected and intimate with my husband. The affair was a symptom, not the cause of the problems in the marriage. They were already there.

And what happened in the past, before you met OM, when you discussed the disconnect with your husband?

[Samantha0905]

And what happened in the past, before you met OM, when you discussed the disconnect with your husband?

 

It's a long story. We went to marriage counseling after 10 years -- there were good times in the marriage -- bad times in the marriage -- also a bit of a sexual and communication disconnect throughout the marriage. We raised our children. We got along. I don't feel like getting bogged down in the past. I'm working on the now and the future.

[mem11363]

Sam,

I don't think he is any more capable of enjoying true "close friend" type interaction with you than you are of enjoying sexual interaction with him.

 

In computers we have a term for this - deadlock.

 

 

 

I'm a pro-marriage kind of person also even though I screwed up and had an affair. It may be difficult for some to believe, but I am. That's probably a large part of it. I feel like a marriage is supposed to last forever. My parents' marriage did.

 

I guess I feel like I'm the one doing the bad thing here if I leave my marriage. Plus, my children really are very close to us.

 

On the other hand, I appreciate what you've said Owl because I wonder if that sexual attraction is ever going to be there -- and highly doubt that it will. I don't know what to do with it all.

 

Do I just announce (?), "Hey, I can't be married anymore. I need to live on my own and I don't want to go into all the details. I'm simply not happy and have not been for a long time."

 

I suppose there's no way to deal with it all without someone being hurt -- well, without both of us feeling a great loss -- but since I'm not wanting to or feeling like I can go along with the sex thing anymore -- perhaps it has to end.

 

This is not a very nice place to be.

[Just a stone's throw]

I'm a pro-marriage kind of person also even though I screwed up and had an affair. It may be difficult for some to believe, but I am. That's probably a large part of it. I feel like a marriage is supposed to last forever. My parents' marriage did.

 

I guess I feel like I'm the one doing the bad thing here if I leave my marriage. Plus, my children really are very close to us.

 

On the other hand, I appreciate what you've said Owl because I wonder if that sexual attraction is ever going to be there -- and highly doubt that it will. I don't know what to do with it all.

 

Do I just announce (?), "Hey, I can't be married anymore. I need to live on my own and I don't want to go into all the details. I'm simply not happy and have not been for a long time."

 

I suppose there's no way to deal with it all without someone being hurt -- well, without both of us feeling a great loss -- but since I'm not wanting to or feeling like I can go along with the sex thing anymore -- perhaps it has to end.

 

This is not a very nice place to be.

 

 

Sam, you'd probably be surprised that not many people would ask why. It may be apparent to most. Some things you just can't hide. I would have a hard time believing that he could be disrespectful to you in some of the ways you mentioned and NO ONE noticed?

[Dexter Morgan]

Sam' date=' you'd probably be surprised that not many people would ask why. It may be apparent to most. Some things you just can't hide. I would have a hard time believing that he could be disrespectful to you in some of the ways you mentioned and NO ONE noticed?[/quote']

 

I'm sure almost everyone noticed. Disrespect often begates disrespect.

Its not that nobody noticed, just that his anger is understandable.

 

His being drunk didn't help. Its going to take time for him to come to a point where he doesn't have these outbursts....and even after time, he still might bring it up once in a blue moon. Just hope, for his own sake, that it becomes few and far between.

[rewe4reel]

I don't think so, dude. Let's see ... using your analogy with food / hunger, a person with a big appetite for food but who was a diabetic would still eat a platter of cupcakes and risk death if no appropriate food was available.

 

In the absence of any other food, obviously a diabetic would have to eat sugary food, or else they would starve to death. Most likely they could try to roughly titrate their blood sugar level by nibbling very small quantities at a time rather than gobble down huge quantities of sugary foods. But, they would have to eat. Or they would die.

 

By the way, are you contending that if OP were to have sex with her h, she would become ill or die? I don't think analogizing one's spouse to a potentially fatal disease is a very appropriate analogy. YMMV. No, there would be absolutely no negative physical health effects on OP were she to have sex with her h.

 

 

Or, less dramatic, a person with a big appetite who, by choice, is on a low carb diet will eat a loaf of bread if no appropriate food is available.

 

Yes, of course they would. Otherwise they would starve to death. People who are starving to death don't need to worry about low cal or low carb diets.

 

 

 

Or the hungry vegetarian will eat a chicken. No.

 

I have no problem having a discussion with you about this but you have to at least try to be realistic when making an analogy. Yes most vegetarians would eat meat rather than starve to death. Why do you think that would not be the case?

 

 

 

We humans have a lot of things playing upon our appetites at all times. Some of them we are conscious of, and some we are not.

 

I agree with this, and this is precisely why measuring someone's libido only by their verbalizations rather than actually observing their actions can be very misleading.

 

 

Regarding sex, using your logic, a high libido person will have sex with some random stranger who comes onto him / her if their spouse is away.

 

Possibly. Again why would this surprise you?

 

 

 

No. In fact, plenty of "high libido" people don't have sex with available people just because of different forces at play upon their sexuality, such as ethics, expectations of "love," etc.

 

If they don't have sex with anyone, for months at a time, why would you even categorize them as having "high libido" in the first place? Because they say they want to have a lot of sex, but do nothing to make it happen?

 

 

 

There are many reasons NOT to have sex with an individual person, regardless of one's own libido.

 

Yes there are many reasons not to have sex with an individual person, but having a high libido is not one of those reasons. Not wanting to have sex with one's spouse is not an indication of high libido. It's an indication of the opposite. This is simple logic.

 

 

 

And most of them have NOTHING to do with the one who's not having sex having an extramarital affair.

 

I'm having a little difficult following you here. What's your point? It simply seems to be that we should measure libido based on what people say rather than on how they actually behave.

 

That's interesting since we don't judge people as having other characteristics merely on what they say, but rather, how they act. We don't call a person "honest" because they say "I'm honest"; we judge them as "honest" because they behave honestly. We don't regard a person as athletic because they say they like to participate in sports; we regard them as athletic if they actually do participate in sports.

[Samantha0905]

Sam,

I don't think he is any more capable of enjoying true "close friend" type interaction with you than you are of enjoying sexual interaction with him.

 

In computers we have a term for this - deadlock.

 

That term seems to fit the situation well.

[Samantha0905]

Sam' date=' you'd probably be surprised that not many people would ask why. It may be apparent to most. Some things you just can't hide. I would have a hard time believing that he could be disrespectful to you in some of the ways you mentioned and NO ONE noticed?[/quote']

 

People have noticed at events -- like my daughter's wedding reception -- my sister's dinner/country club event they invited us to -- things like that. It really is about a once a year thing, but when it happens it isn't pretty.

 

For what it's worth both of those times it was BEFORE any affair. I think it's a control thing and he loses it when things don't go the way he's demanding them to go.

[Samantha0905]

I'm sure almost everyone noticed. Disrespect often begates disrespect.

Its not that nobody noticed, just that his anger is understandable.

 

His being drunk didn't help. Its going to take time for him to come to a point where he doesn't have these outbursts....and even after time, he still might bring it up once in a blue moon. Just hope, for his own sake, that it becomes few and far between.

 

As I said, the outbursts have happened way before the affair or the separation -- even when we were having sex on his schedule.

[2sunny]

 

Do I just announce (?), "Hey, I can't be married anymore. I need to live on my own and I don't want to go into all the details. I'm simply not happy and have not been for a long time."

 

I suppose there's no way to deal with it all without someone being hurt -- well, without both of us feeling a great loss -- but since I'm not wanting to or feeling like I can go along with the sex thing anymore -- perhaps it has to end.

 

This is not a very nice place to be.

 

i don't see a reason not to give this a try... see what life on your own looks like - for you.

 

any change could provoke a firm decision from you whether or not you want that to be permanent or not. if you don't start changing things - they will just stay the same - so i say at least see what it's like.

[JustJoe]

The one thing , Sam, is to be damn sure that being alone is what you want, and also IF you decide to D you need to tell him the real reason why, because it's his future too.

[rewe4reel]

The one thing , Sam, is to be damn sure that being alone is what you want, and also IF you decide to D you need to tell him the real reason why, because it's his future too.

 

She is alone already.

[Samantha0905]

The one thing , Sam, is to be damn sure that being alone is what you want, and also IF you decide to D you need to tell him the real reason why, because it's his future too.

 

If I'm heading out the door anyway, I'm certainly not going out of my way to tell him I'm not sexually attracted. I don't see the purpose.

 

And yes, RU4R -- in some ways I do feel alone -- in other ways not.

[ladydesigner]

(((Samantha))) I think you probably know what you want deep down inside. I also know what I want. I no longer have that feeling when I look into my H's eyes that I am deeply in love with him. It is a lonely feeling. I want to love my H like I used to, but he did a lot of things to destroy that.

 

I hope you continue with your IC. Maybe a trial separation would be best so everyone gets used to the fact that you are separating. Maybe you need time and space to think and figure things out. Being pressured to be attracted and have sex with him when it is not there is a HORRIFIC feeling. I know.

 

My M is only 50% there. My H has given me space and I have been coming back to him. I don't think I will ever have that feeling like I did before his A's...ever.

[Owl]

I'm a pro-marriage kind of person also even though I screwed up and had an affair. It may be difficult for some to believe, but I am. That's probably a large part of it. I feel like a marriage is supposed to last forever. My parents' marriage did.

 

I guess I feel like I'm the one doing the bad thing here if I leave my marriage. Plus, my children really are very close to us.

 

On the other hand, I appreciate what you've said Owl because I wonder if that sexual attraction is ever going to be there -- and highly doubt that it will. I don't know what to do with it all.

 

Do I just announce (?), "Hey, I can't be married anymore. I need to live on my own and I don't want to go into all the details. I'm simply not happy and have not been for a long time."

 

I suppose there's no way to deal with it all without someone being hurt -- well, without both of us feeling a great loss -- but since I'm not wanting to or feeling like I can go along with the sex thing anymore -- perhaps it has to end.

 

This is not a very nice place to be.

 

My wife and I went through a horrible period of about a month right after her EA.

 

She was totally up in the air about what she wanted to do...work on the marriage, or end it and explore 'other' options. I was the one who helped break that deadlock, but that's not the point of my response here.

 

The thing is...one day during this time she went shopping, and I walked to the store she was at after I got off work. While shopping alone, she came across an artsy little sign that had a quote on it (Confuscious, I think).

 

It said "Wherever you go, go with all of your heart".

 

She made a point of showing me that sign, and that night we talked about it in detail.

 

You see, she felt that the reason she didn't leave to go live with OM was because she didn't feel that she could have "gone there with all of her heart". Whereas she did end up deciding that she stayed here with all of her heart.

 

My point is this...right now, you're not doing anything "with all of your heart".

 

Your heart isn't in rebuilding your marriage, for a number of reasons. The lack of compatibility, residual feelings from the affair...you name it.

 

And at the moment, you don't seem to feel like you can LEAVE "with all of your heart".

 

So here's the thing...you need to make a choice....soon...very soon. You need to decide where it is that you CAN go...'with all of your heart'.

 

You need to either put all of your heart into TRULY working to rebuild your marriage, or making it a brand new one that both of you can love.

 

Or you need to put all of your heart into ending your marriage and finding a way for both you and your H to be happy...seperately.

 

But you need to STOP doing things 'half-heartedly'...which is really where you've been at this whole time.

[Mme. Chaucer]

In the absence of any other food, obviously a diabetic would have to eat sugary food, or else they would starve to death. Most likely they could try to roughly titrate their blood sugar level by nibbling very small quantities at a time rather than gobble down huge quantities of sugary foods. But, they would have to eat. Or they would die.

 

Right. But your original, poorly presented analogy was based upon "hunger" and "appetite," not "starvation." It's no fun debating with people who conveniently change their course to "win."

 

A person who is very very hungry has a pressing need to eat. It's a basic drive. Just because the preferred food is steak doesn't mean the very hungry person won't eat hamburger if no steak is available.

 

A person who is not very hungry will turn up their nose at the hamburger, will only eat prime steak, and if not very hungry, will not even bother to seek out the prime steak.

 

Um ... it seems that you are contending, now, that a person with a high libido (per your skewed definition of that) will die if they don't get to have sex, like a vegetarian would die if they didn't eat a chicken. Right?

 

Yes most vegetarians would eat meat rather than starve to death. Why do you think that would not be the case?

 

By the way, are you contending that if OP were to have sex with her h, she would become ill or die?

 

No. I do believe that there is a high emotional and even spiritual cost to using handy people to relieve ones libidinous needs when one feels, for whatever reason, repelled by their potential "receptacle." It could be a lot more unhealthy than just going horny for a time.

 

this is precisely why measuring someone's libido only by their verbalizations rather than actually observing their actions can be very misleading.

 

So, the only truly "high libido" people would be those who can be observed by one and all copulating with anything with the requisite appendage or orifice that they can wrangle into a doable position? Haha.

 

The bottom line to my position on this is that libido is indeed analogous to appetite; some have a big one and some have a small one. Where I completely diverge from your perspective (which I find alarming) is that I am certain that human beings have many factors that come into play upon which they will CHOOSE how to act or not act upon their appetites and desires.

 

Argue all you like, but I assure you that there are people reading this right now who are languishing with unrequited lust but who are not willing to have sex with the handy, willing person in the other room because of any number of reasons.

[turnera]

If I'm heading out the door anyway, I'm certainly not going out of my way to tell him I'm not sexually attracted. I don't see the purpose.

 

That's easy.

 

To finally NOT be selfish about this, and set your husband free to find the happiness he deserves. With someone else. If you tell him the truth, he will be able to clear his head from the fallacies he's lived under all these years, that you have propagated for your own benefit.

[rewe4reel]

Argue all you like, but I assure you that there are people reading this right now who are languishing with unrequited lust but who are not willing to have sex with the handy, willing person in the other room because of any number of reasons.

 

You're pretending that the person in the other room is a stranger or something. It's not, it's the person that was selected as spouse or significant other.

 

You seem to believe that talking the talk is more important than walking the walk.

 

If you claim to be an honest person but lie all the time, are you an honest person? No. You're a liar. If you claim to be an athletic person but watch TV all day and never exercise, are you athletic? No, you're a couch potato.

 

If you claim to be a highly libidinous person but never or only rarely have sex with an available partner whom you selected, who you have chosen to live with; and when you do have sex it is only grudgingly; do you have a high libido, merely because you say you do?

 

Of course not.

[Dexter Morgan]

As I said, the outbursts have happened way before the affair or the separation -- even when we were having sex on his schedule.

 

So you are saying he had outbursts of the kind you witnessed just recently where he'd get drunk and completely bitch you out?

 

Or outbursts where he conveys his displeasure about how things are going in the marriage?

 

Because to me, simply reporting his dissappointment, maybe even with a little tantrum, is a far cry from his drunken blitzkrieg. Was it the same kind of outburst in the past as this recent one?

[Samantha0905]

i don't see a reason not to give this a try... see what life on your own looks like - for you.

 

any change could provoke a firm decision from you whether or not you want that to be permanent or not. if you don't start changing things - they will just stay the same - so i say at least see what it's like.

 

Thanks sunny. You're more than likely right. Honestly, I wish I had stayed in my apartment another six months to give myself time to think.

 

Samantha,

Have you thought about why you are so reluctant to go to MC when it could break this deadlock?

 

Yes, I have. I think I'm dreading MC because (a) I certainly don't want to tell my husband I'm not sexually attracted to him because I think that would be a very hurtful and demeaning thing to have to hear, (b) I don't think any amount of marriage counseling is going to make me feel sexually attracted to or enjoy sex with him, © I fear the marriage breaking up -- it's hard to change something that has been the norm for the last 27 years and I hate to think of what it will do to my children and everything we all do together -- family stuff, holidays, etc., and (d) I think all of this may just be prolonging the inevitable and two more years spent married in marriage counseling is just two more years of not making things better.

 

I'm sure there are other things I could think of, but I'm rushing and that's what I have for now.

 

(((Samantha))) I think you probably know what you want deep down inside. I also know what I want. I no longer have that feeling when I look into my H's eyes that I am deeply in love with him. It is a lonely feeling. I want to love my H like I used to, but he did a lot of things to destroy that.

 

I want to have that feeling period for my husband -- I don't think it was ever there. Plus, I feel extremely guilty as he has NOT done anything to destroy our marriage.

 

I hope you continue with your IC. Maybe a trial separation would be best so everyone gets used to the fact that you are separating. Maybe you need time and space to think and figure things out. Being pressured to be attracted and have sex with him when it is not there is a HORRIFIC feeling. I know.

 

Yes, it is. I should have just stayed in my apartment.

 

My M is only 50% there. My H has given me space and I have been coming back to him. I don't think I will ever have that feeling like I did before his A's...ever.

 

I'm so sorry. I'm glad things are somewhat better. Do you think it will last?

 

My wife and I went through a horrible period of about a month right after her EA.

 

She was totally up in the air about what she wanted to do...work on the marriage, or end it and explore 'other' options. I was the one who helped break that deadlock, but that's not the point of my response here.

 

Sometimes I wish my husband would put his foot down and be more adamant about something having to change. It's very difficult to express myself to someone who is being constantly nice to me regardless of what I do -- moving out, no sex, etc. I know that sounds crazy -- but it is.

 

The thing is...one day during this time she went shopping, and I walked to the store she was at after I got off work. While shopping alone, she came across an artsy little sign that had a quote on it (Confuscious, I think).

 

It said "Wherever you go, go with all of your heart".

 

She made a point of showing me that sign, and that night we talked about it in detail.

 

You see, she felt that the reason she didn't leave to go live with OM was because she didn't feel that she could have "gone there with all of her heart". Whereas she did end up deciding that she stayed here with all of her heart.

 

My point is this...right now, you're not doing anything "with all of your heart".

 

Your heart isn't in rebuilding your marriage, for a number of reasons. The lack of compatibility, residual feelings from the affair...you name it.

 

And at the moment, you don't seem to feel like you can LEAVE "with all of your heart".

 

So here's the thing...you need to make a choice....soon...very soon. You need to decide where it is that you CAN go...'with all of your heart'.

 

You need to either put all of your heart into TRULY working to rebuild your marriage, or making it a brand new one that both of you can love.

 

Or you need to put all of your heart into ending your marriage and finding a way for both you and your H to be happy...seperately.

 

But you need to STOP doing things 'half-heartedly'...which is really where you've been at this whole time.

 

Thank you Owl. I definitely know I'm doing things half-heartedly and it is where I've been this entire time. Thanks for taking the time to type that out. I don't know if I can put my heart into TRULY working to rebuild my marriage. I don't know how to do that if I do not truly want to have sex with him at all. Perhaps that's my answer.

 

Right. But your original, poorly presented analogy was based upon "hunger" and "appetite," not "starvation." It's no fun debating with people who conveniently change their course to "win."

 

................

 

No. I do believe that there is a high emotional and even spiritual cost to using handy people to relieve ones libidinous needs when one feels, for whatever reason, repelled by their potential "receptacle." It could be a lot more unhealthy than just going horny for a time.

 

So, the only truly "high libido" people would be those who can be observed by one and all copulating with anything with the requisite appendage or orifice that they can wrangle into a doable position? Haha.

 

....................

 

Argue all you like, but I assure you that there are people reading this right now who are languishing with unrequited lust but who are not willing to have sex with the handy, willing person in the other room because of any number of reasons.

 

 

Thank you so much for responding to RU4R. What you've said makes perfect sense to me.

 

So you are saying he had outbursts of the kind you witnessed just recently where he'd get drunk and completely bitch you out?

 

Or outbursts where he conveys his displeasure about how things are going in the marriage?

 

Because to me, simply reporting his disappointment, maybe even with a little tantrum, is a far cry from his drunken blitzkrieg. Was it the same kind of outburst in the past as this recent one?

 

Yes. The worst I ever remember was after my daughter's wedding reception.

 

Sam,

 

Help me understand these outbursts with:

 

Their frequency

Their content

Their context

 

Anything precipitate them?

 

He's done it about once a year or year and a half throughout our marriage over different things. I honestly think he holds in his emotions and then finally explodes. The explosion times are generally when he feels out of control of a situation dealing with me.

 

The content is usually very unreasonable, irrational yelling or fits (stomping feet, pacing, yelling, etc.) You'd have to see him to understand the intensity level. My sister has seen him do it a few times and she tells me he seems absolutely crazy. I've also seen him crazy mad a couple of times for things other than me -- weird stuff like getting mad at another fan at a football game or just mad at someone who has been rude or overstepped their boundaries. Again, you'd have to see it -- it's not that I don't understand sometimes people get angry -- but when he loses it, he really loses it. A good friend of mine saw him in rare form at a football game once and she looked at me and whispered, "He's crazy." I've told him before if he got things out as life went along he wouldn't have all that pent up anger.

 

I think I've described the scene after my daughter's wedding reception before. In any event, the reception was over at 11:00 and he wanted to go home. My daughter wanted some of her friends, us, my sister and a few other people to go downtown to a restaurant/bar to continue the celebration. She had a lovely wedding and was just honestly having a fun time. My husband didn't want to go and wanted me to not go. I told him it was fine if he didn't, but I wanted to go. It was my daughter's wedding! I only have one daughter and, hopefully, she'll only have one wedding.

 

He even tried to get my friends who had offered me a ride to just go on and leave me. When my good girlfriend said she couldn't do that because she had already promised me I could ride with her, he decided he would go.

 

Later at the place, within 30 minutes he wanted us to leave. I was not doing anything. I was sitting on a bar stool at a table with my daughter and about five of her girlfriends. I wasn't dancing with anyone or anything, I'm not a loud person, I wasn't being lewed, etc. I was laughing with my daughter and her friends.

 

Well, he proceeds to tell me we are leaving and to get up now. He really caused a scene in that restaurant and it was embarrassing. To this day, it's a bad memory associated with a beautiful occasion. Even my sister came to my side that night and told me I wasn't doing anything wrong and to stick to my guns -- which I did. I think we finally all left around 1:30 a.m. and he was livid -- more yelling and screaming. It's just too much craziness. He could have just gone home.

 

Oh -- and come to think of it -- one time he had one of these angry fits a year after my father died because I was crying over his death. I wasn't crying all the time, but it did make me sad for a while. I honestly thought he was angry because he couldn't "fit" it and so my tears frustrated him. It's strange.

[ladydesigner]

I'm so sorry. I'm glad things are somewhat better. Do you think it will last?

 

I certainly hope so. Times have been getting better. Day by day as they say. I'm not looking at my M as a forever type of thing anymore as anything can happen and feelings can change.

 

My true test will be after the kids have left our home, they are still very young. Sometimes I wonder if I am just staying because of the kids or because I really want our M to work out, it is very confusing. If my H cheats again, it's over. I have come to that conclusion. I know I would be fine on my own, that my kids would adjust. I have no more fears. I want our M to either recover or end.