jennie-jennie Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 The one thing my counselor said to me today which really rang true (for me) was that if I go ahead and have sex with my husband when I still do not feel an attraction or do not want to do so, I will be giving up a part of myself that he really feels I should not give up. Samantha, I don't know what you are still doing in your marriage, whipping a horse that not only is dead but never was alive in the first place. I would have been gone and out oh so long ago. Sexual attraction is what makes the relationship between a couple different from all other relationships. Without sexual attraction it is just like any other relationship and not significant enough to be defined as marriage. Get a divorce, have some fun sex with your OM until you meet someone who can provide you with both sexual satisfaction and security. :bunny: That is my advice to you.
Author Samantha0905 Posted May 20, 2010 Author Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) I miss Samantha's troggleputty .. analyzing the analysis .. I DO NOT!!! (I'm only 1/3 the way through) .. Samantha I just wanted to tell you what a good writer you are - and you paint such a picture ... ok back to the story .. Thank you cali. Tune out the XAP .. He doesn't matter. Block him .. He had nothing to offer you but his penis. You can find them in the malls. Which store??!! This does beg an interesting question -- and before I ask it, I will state XAP and I are completely over now. I don't think he will contact me again after that last exchange and if he did I would not respond. That being said, why does everyone insist XAP is not worth consideration or "doesn't matter?" Well, I guess what I'm asking are you just saying that about my XAP because of things I've said about him? Or is it the fact that it was an affair in general? I think sometimes affair partners actually have genuine deep feelings for one another as people, friends, etc. I know people say it's a fog or not a "real" relationship and although I know it's a relationship which started in deceit, sometimes I think love does develop. It's difficult to be dismissive with someone you've loved. Just my two cents. Ask your counselor what your reaction should have been when your husband asked what was discussed at the counseling session.. Somehow I think it would be easier to tell your husband some of the things that are discussed (such as the sex part) .. Rather than having a MC pry it out of you .. I did ask him and he said I had already responded. He said when I said I wanted more communication and intimacy that was my list. I had told my husband that and also that I think a lot of the problem was rooted in the fact he did the father/daughter thing for so long with me. I also said perhaps if we spend time communicating more, being friends, touching more without sex being expected, etc. it would help. It wouldn't have mattered what you would have said to him - or about what was going on at the club .. With the beer and the scotch .. He was going to bring up his repressions no matter what.. Jeesh! I think I'm going to hide his scotch!! Your husband needs to get enraged enough to take you and make madd passionate love to you .. ... At least the next time you notice him filling up .. you'll know what to expect .. Fun times, right? I can tell you one thing -- that absolutely did NOT make me feel like having sex with him. Your husband needs to get enraged enough to take you and make madd passionate love to you .. ... At least the next time you notice him filling up .. you'll know what to expect .. blek..... I concur! Oh my!!!!!! No wonder your husband is hitting the single malt. He doesn't know it....BUT HE CAN FEEL IT. Regarding the lack of attraction.......YOU MARRIED HIM. SO....what now....hmmm.....what now........ You need to answer that. Yeah, I did. As I've said before, I'm not going to flog myself all my life for making the poor decision to get married at 21 when I was not ready to be married. It's just too young. "Now what?" has been the question for a while and I do feel like I'm getting much closer to answering that. --------------- You don't think he needs to get enraged (or frustrated) enough to make a move - Stone's throw.. Not all jacked up on beer and scotch.... that makes me nauseous. Nothing says a turn on like a slobbering, angry drunk. I think they've got a lot of work to do before going there with their relationship. I've stated that in her last thread. There is faking it until you make it but not in this case. I think it would do more damage than good. Yes, it was definitely a turn off. And you're right -- I absolutely cannot fake it until I make it. Samantha I think you missed an opportunity when you shut your husband down after he asked about your counselling. Hey Phoenix. I simply do not want to share what I say to my counselor. I'm going to IC to figure myself out and I'm sharing things with him in confidence -- many things I don't even say here -- and I am not willing to give up that privacy. You have been complaining about his lack of communication and the general lack of intimacy in the relationship. Intimacy requires sharing. Your H was asking you to share. Maybe he wanted insight about what was going on inside you.We talk a lot when we go on walks, etc. I've certainly told him how I feel over the years -- except for the lack of attraction thing -- to the point of nausea. I even told him the other night that I'm not even sure what can be done about it and I would rather just go away and be by myself. He was adamant he did not want that to happen again. Not saying you should have told him every detail, but maybe you could have shared some broad strokes with him. AND does your H know you still communicate with OM?No, my husband doesn't know and he hasn't asked a thing about the affair or mentioned it since I told him. That's bizarre to me. I know I shouldn't be contacting the OM or him me. I don't think that's going to be an issue anymore. Sam, I agree that sex in the current context will be emotionally subtractive to you. Mainly it seems like your H does things TO you, not WITH you. And that is all about a failure to listen. And I don't just mean "listen" in the passive sense. I mean pay attention to you, read you, and sometimes ask questions. And I don't mean "what specific steps do I need to get you to have sex with me?" That question is more along the lines of, "what needs to happen for me to get laid?" Hi mem. Hope you're doing well. When my husband was having his screaming fit I said to him that not only did I think he would prefer me to stay quiet when people say things I disagree with, but I also think he doesn't "like" me as a person. He said that wasn't true. I then said it seemed he didn't like my opinions or how I felt about things and that was a large part of who I am. He said he just doesn't like me saying things when it is something that is not going to change for a long time. He was referring to the policies at the country club. I asked him what would have happened if Rosa Parks felt that way? (Not comparing me to Rosa Parks, by the way -- but hopefully, making a point. ) I just don't have that gene that tells me I can't speak up respectfully when there are policies I think are blatantly discriminatory. And Hell -- I should certainly be able to discuss these things with my life partner!! At some level that would make most folks in your shoes angry because he has never once asked the question "What has to happen for you Sam to be happy?" Which is a variant of "What has to happen for you to not be unhappy?" Which is the generalized version of a very specific and achingly obvious question "Why Sam were you so unhappy that you moved out of our home?" Yes, it does make me angry. It makes me feel ignored which is how I have felt in many ways in my marriage. I don't mean ignored in the service sense -- he does so many things for me as you've pointed out above. I think he just does not know me. Thing is, sex is just another type of communication. Or well - good sex is. Because in good sex, verbally/non verbally you are reading your partner before, during and after to decide what you are going to do, and when you are going to do it. What you described though, he was doing stuff to you, not with you. With you implies a high level of focus on and awareness of what you want/like. Awareness gained from listening to your body, and also asking you questions. You have every reason to expect that if you sleep with him now you will get the exact same treatment you have in the past. I know. I don't think I can do that anymore. If you want to give him a chance to actually show he is capable of doing something with you, see if you can teach him how to give you a great massage. Because a great massage is the result of focus, effort, patience and excellent communication. If he is not able or willing to learn your body well enough to give you a great massage, he isn't going to be much of a lover. Then again, maybe you aren't all that crazy about the idea of having him touch you in an extended manner until he gets out of his own way sufficiently to ask why you left.Yes, I do have a problem now with it all. He kissed me some last night -- the first of any kind of sexually related stuff we've done in such a long time. It made me feel sad. That can't be a good sign. At a glance your H seems quite focused on how you behave. You know, whether or not you say controversial things, or deny him sex. Maybe even what you are saying to your IC. But he does not seem at all interested in how you feel.I know. I feel the same way. Thank you for your insight. Your H tells you about his counseling sessions, you refuse to tell him about yours, and yet you complain that he isn't communicating, WTF? If you REALLY want communication, NOW, then you need to be upfront with him, NOW. What happened in the past is exactly that, in the past. You are the one , who is being uncommunicative, not your H. For example, does he know that you are still in contact with the AP? WTF Joe? LOL Well WTF is going on is that I don't want to tell him what is going on in my counseling sessions. They are private. That's why I'm going to a counselor. I'll share what I want to share and I will not be pressured into telling him things I do not want to tell him. And no again about the XAP. He's not really the focus here anyway. I like you, Sam, I really do. You can be very insightful and sympathetic, but you can also be very stubborn , and dissembling. You seem to be putting the ox before the cart here. Concentrate on both of your communication and honesty skills, you and your H, then worry about the sex. I also am one who believes that you can get aroused by your H, if you truly want to. But now isn't the time. Thank you Joe! I like you too. I think the beings stubborn part comes out of fear of getting myself back into the situation where I'm having sex when I really don't want to be there. It was absolutely awful psychologically for me over time. Now definitely is not the time for us to be having sex. Okay, you and I don't see eye to eye on just about...well...anything. So I'm not going to jump up and down on you, and you aren't going to ignore my sage advice. But there is a niggling worry. The yelling H, I can understand. It's scary, but understandable. That wound needed to be lanced (and may need to be several more times), to get the poison out, before it can heal, with or without you in his life. At this point I'm leaning towards without, because from what I can see, right now emotionally speaking you're all take and no give. (Okay, so a little jumping up and down.) I draw the line at physical violence though. If he so much as lays a single finger on you, promise us you're gone. A hole in the air. There is no justification for getting physical with a woman. Anyway, the real worry is the yelling xAP. Were any threats made, or even implied? That you know of, does he have even the slightest history of untoward behavior when he's jilted? JAG Hi Jag. I enjoying varying opinions and people who don't think like me or agree with me. It's what makes the world go 'round. As to what you said, I suppose after all the years of acquiescing -- and yes, I know it was a choice(s) I made and am responsible for -- I don't have as much emotional give in me right now. I don't know. I don't think my husband would ever hit me. Hope not anyway. I used to volunteer for an abused women's shelter and one hit is all it would take for me to say sayonara. I think the XAP called to make himself feel like he was jilting me. As for his history as far as violence is concerned, I don't think he has had any. He does have several guns, a weird obsession with law enforcement and was diagnosed as hypervigilant. All strange and worrisome. In any event, we aren't talking anymore. C'mon - there's got to be an app for that! Didn't even think of apps, although I have quite a few on my iPhone. I'm not real technologically savvy. Thank you! Actually, another opportunity was when he asked if you were mad (twice) and you just answered, effectively, "Yes" and left it at that. Doesn't that seem like exactly the opportunity to start communicating intimately about what is going on in the relationship? It sounds like you are each shutting the other one out. It's a standoff. Ouch - indeed...The last time he asked, I said to him straight out, "Honey, it's not normal to just leave without discussing it when I've told you I'm angry and when you've had such an angry drunken moment the night before." He then walked over and sat on the edge of the bed and said he was sorry, he was frustrated and he knew he behaved badly the night before. And then he left. I think that was his version of a discussion. Samantha, I don't know what you are still doing in your marriage, whipping a horse that not only is dead but never was alive in the first place. I would have been gone and out oh so long ago. Sexual attraction is what makes the relationship between a couple different from all other relationships. Without sexual attraction it is just like any other relationship and not significant enough to be defined as marriage. Get a divorce, have some fun sex with your OM until you meet someone who can provide you with both sexual satisfaction and security. :bunny: That is my advice to you. Thanks jennie! I almost didn't recognize you. I'm starting to feel like you are right. If I decide to leave my marriage -- I think I will just not see anyone for a year or so. Maybe the best thing would be to take some time out for myself and figure out what I want out of life. Thanks for all the advice everyone. Edited May 20, 2010 by Samantha0905
turnera Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) Samantha I think you missed an opportunity when you shut your husband down after he asked about your counselling. You have been complaining about his lack of communication and the general lack of intimacy in the relationship. Intimacy requires sharing. Your H was asking you to share. Maybe he wanted insight about what was going on inside you. Not saying you should have told him every detail, but maybe you could have shared some broad strokes with him. Exactly what I was thinking. He is extending a hand to you, you say you want communication, yet when you have the chance to tell him just how you feel about him (after all, that IS what you talked about in therapy), you don't reciprocate. You only want communication when it's helping you? If you want that, you have to make it a viable choice for him, too. You don't have to tell him your exact conversations, but if you want a relationship with your husband, you both need to know and understand how and what the other is thinking. It goes both ways. Edited May 20, 2010 by turnera
califnan Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 That being said, why does everyone insist XAP is not worth consideration or "doesn't matter?" Well, I guess what I'm asking are you just saying that about my XAP because of things I've said about him? Or is it the fact that it was an affair in general? QUOTE] -------------------------- Because when I think of you, I think of a lifetime partner for you - not Rabbits. And as for his age and job situation, as I said: you can find them sitting around or standing about in the malls.
Dexter Morgan Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 A club that doesn't allow blacks or Jewish people in and discriminates against women is wrong Dexter. He knows I had the affair. I've acknowledged that was wrong. It doesn't make me a hypocrite to say I think policies are discriminatory. You're reaching. well maybe you need to clarify or tell your stories better. It made it sound like you were appalled that she went into the men's locker room. I don't really feel the need to follow your advice, but thank you. I will be appalled when I feel like it. I represent your husband. I know what is going through his mind. If you don't want to know what he is thinking, or more accurately don't care, then maybe its time to set him free from you. I am telling you what he is more than likely feeling...if you don't care....well....? I don't accept blame here. I've accepted blame for my affair, but if I want to speak up against discriminatory practices I will and not feel I don't have the right to do so. Those people are in the dark ages. again, it looked like you were speaking up against her going into the locker room. thanks for the clarification. Still, it may have looked, no matter how sh###y it is this club's practices, that you were sticking up for a woman that had no business in the men's locker room. that probably triggered him no matter how irrelevant to his situation it may have been. don't know, how do you explain his outburst? Something else happen that night you are telling us? It has to be something that triggered it like that. Excellent idea. How do you block someone from calling an iPhone? dunno, google it. I'm sure there is a way. If all else fails, change your number. If I was your husband and was considering giving you a 2nd chance, this would be one of the stipulations listed in the "least you could do" category.
Dexter Morgan Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 A club that doesn't allow blacks or Jewish people in and discriminates against women is wrong Dexter. side question, then why do you go there?
Dexter Morgan Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 blek..... --------------- You don't think he needs to get enraged (or frustrated) enough to make a move I do, but not the way you suggested, but the way of getting papers drawn up by a good attorney.
jwi71 Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 A club that doesn't allow blacks or Jewish people in and discriminates against women is wrong Dexter. He knows I had the affair. I've acknowledged that was wrong. It doesn't make me a hypocrite to say I think policies are discriminatory. The hypocrisy is not calling them discriminatory - the hypocrisy is in saying so and going anyway. Now, as for your M. Dead and buried. You haven't loved your H for a long, long time now. File and move on but continue the IC. You'll be happy. And you haven't been for a long, long time.
Dexter Morgan Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 Now, as for your M. Dead and buried. You haven't loved your H for a long, long time now. File and move on but continue the IC. You'll be happy. And you haven't been for a long, long time. I completely agree. Come on Sam, you never liked sex with your husband. You want to have sex with someone other than your husband....admit it, you know it..we know it. So why keep torturing your husband. The only way he is going to heal is to be away from a woman that would rather have someone else. He'll take it hard, but in the long run, he'll see its the best thing for him. He can find someone that is attracted to him and someone he can trust.
califnan Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 Blindsided, Samantha is the type of person who doesn't wish to hurt anyone's feelings .. That is why I believe she hasn't told the OM to not contact her .. Thus she has continued to put herself between her husband and the OM. To my way of thinking, this makes the counseling less meaninful, in trying to discover why she isn't attracted to her husband..
Trimmer Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 Blindsided, Samantha is the type of person who doesn't wish to hurt anyone's feelings .. That is why I believe she hasn't told the OM to not contact her .. Thus she has continued to put herself between her husband and the OM. To my way of thinking, this makes the counseling less meaninful, in trying to discover why she isn't attracted to her husband.. I agree that it makes the counseling less meaningful, but I think it happens because she is putting the OM between herself and her husband...
JustJoe Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 Blindsided, Samantha is the type of person who doesn't wish to hurt anyone's feelings .. That is why I believe she hasn't told the OM to not contact her .. Thus she has continued to put herself between her husband and the OM. To my way of thinking, this makes the counseling less meaninful, in trying to discover why she isn't attracted to her husband..This is really good. If Sam is interested in trying to make a good sex-life with her H, why is she still dissing him by contacting the OM?........Sam , if you want to, you must start something completely new with your H, something that will enhance him as a Man, not as your husband. To create any sexual energy, you must start to look at him in a new light, without the distraction of the MM. Ask your therapist about this.
Dexter Morgan Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 Blindsided, Samantha is the type of person who doesn't wish to hurt anyone's feelings .. That is why I believe she hasn't told the OM to not contact her doesn't want to hurt the OM, so better to keep hurting the husband? sorry, she is suppose to have allegiance to her husbands feelings first and foremost, not some interloper.
califnan Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 She posts on here to wind people up. There can be not other reason for this illogic. ----------------- Don't say Samantha's a "troll" just because I guessed the reason that I think she is allowing the OM to contact her .. I could be wrong .. But after viewing most of her writings, I think she is the type who doesn't wish to affend others .. that's all ..
califnan Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 ----------------- Don't say Samantha's a "troll" just because I guessed the reason that I think she is allowing the OM to contact her .. I could be wrong .. But after viewing most of her writings, I think she is the type who doesn't wish to affend others .. that's all .. -------------- I meant offend.
rewe4reel Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 She posts on here to wind people up. There can be not other reason for this illogic. What I find fascinating is that in her last communication with her "ex"* affair partner, she actually managed to get him as enraged as her husband. What do the affair partner and the husband have in common? Her. *I don't think he actually qualifies as a true ex affair partner because no contact has never been maintained. As long as the contact continues the affair lives on. Apparently there is no compunction about breaking no contact and pretending to be trying to reconcile. There can be no effective effort at reconciliation as long as contact with the affair partner continues. Needless to say, failing to disclose the continuing contact with the affair partner to the betrayed husband is simply an exacerbation. I agree with her that the affair partner's feelings matter too, and would question why she seems to be manipulating the affair partner's emotional state just as intensively as she is her husband's--but then pretending that she is not doing that, she does not know where the intense emotions are coming from on the part of either the affair partner or the husband. She is the cause of the anger being expressed both by her husband and by her affair partner. Or maybe the way she interacts with them is what causes them to be angered. She must accept responsibility for what she is doing to both of them rather than continue the blame-shifting. I actually have sympathy for her affair partner which from my perspective should seemingly be impossible. Fancy that.
ladydesigner Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 Hi Samantha I certainly hope you are doing well today. I love following your threads! I just wanted to respond to some of the ideas some of the posters have been dishing out. I know for one that if I were still in contact with my XOM even as "email buddies" my marriage would still be in the dumps because I would still be thinking about my XOM. Like you I was no longer attracted to my husband. I was in the beginning and am now finding it again, but I think a HUGE part of that was by severing everything with my XOM, contact, thoughts (althought they still creep in once in a while). I no longer look back fondly at my XOM. I look at him as "why did he continue to want to pursue a married woman with kids" *sick* Something has kept you in this marriage this long, there has to be something there because people get divorced everyday and you have no kids living at home right? Are there attractive qualities about your husband that you can start focusing on again? The feeling of having sex with a husband you are no longer attracted to is one of the worst feelings I have ever gone through. It almost killed me. Hell it drove me right into XOM's arms. If you don't think there is anything left maybe you should separate. Maybe when you left your H the first time was the right decision. What was it that brought you back to him? Just curious. I know where you are at and it is miserable. Luckily I have rekindled my love for my H and my M and hope to never lose that again. One thing I need to remember is not to harbor any resentment towards him. Now if he cheats again that's a different story. I hope you are doing well Sam.
califnan Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 Cobalt.. I think it's been a year or two since he (a married man) has had sex.. Of course he has the potential of being an alcoholic ..
BB07 Posted May 20, 2010 Posted May 20, 2010 Samantha......I don't think it should be THIS hard. I think you are trying to get a feeling back that was never there to start with. I don't think your h can ever change into the man you need and want him to be. It's not a criticism of your husband nor is it a criticism of you or your wants and needs. I think you know in your heart and soul that to stay is not what you want......but you are afraid to go. Your life as you have known would be completely different and even though you have sometimes resented the parent/child aspect of your relationship with your husband, it does bring you security in a sense. I think as we get older than it's harder to take a chance on the unknown. I think you want to spread your wings and fly.....but fear is holding you back. My 2 cents worth.
califnan Posted May 21, 2010 Posted May 21, 2010 Cal, there's a big difference between celibacy (and sexual frustration) and alcoholism. This guy's an alcoholic. Edit: and I'm not excusing her affair. An affair is ALWAYS wrong. ------------------- Maybe alcohol is the replacement for inner problems..
turnera Posted May 21, 2010 Posted May 21, 2010 Samantha......I don't think it should be THIS hard. I think you are trying to get a feeling back that was never there to start with. I don't think your h can ever change into the man you need and want him to be. It's not a criticism of your husband nor is it a criticism of you or your wants and needs. I think you know in your heart and soul that to stay is not what you want......but you are afraid to go. Your life as you have known would be completely different and even though you have sometimes resented the parent/child aspect of your relationship with your husband, it does bring you security in a sense. I think as we get older than it's harder to take a chance on the unknown. I think you want to spread your wings and fly.....but fear is holding you back. My 2 cents worth. I would vote for this, too. I believe marrying at 21 is a mistake for almost everyone. At least 80% of people should not marry at 21; they're not done deciding who they are and what they want. That said, I agree with it on ONE condition. That she vow - and KEEP the vow - to never see OM again, for the rest of her life. That way, it wasn't the affair that broke the marriage, it was the marriage.
califnan Posted May 21, 2010 Posted May 21, 2010 I would vote for this, too. I believe marrying at 21 is a mistake for almost everyone. At least 80% of people should not marry at 21; they're not done deciding who they are and what they want. That said, I agree with it on ONE condition. That she vow - and KEEP the vow - to never see OM again, for the rest of her life. That way, it wasn't the affair that broke the marriage, it was the marriage. ------------------------ I was married at 22 and he was 24 .. And yes 20 yrs later he was ready for a change. I don't think that necessarily means that young marriages are doomed .. What is the life expectancy on a marriage anyway? How about a 35 or 40 yr old .. will their marriage make it until death do us part?
turnera Posted May 21, 2010 Posted May 21, 2010 ------------------------ I was married at 22 and he was 24 .. And yes 20 yrs later he was ready for a change. I don't think that necessarily means that young marriages are doomed .. What is the life expectancy on a marriage anyway? How about a 35 or 40 yr old .. will their marriage make it until death do us part? Well, according to the statistics I've researched, about 75-80% of marriages of people under the age of 23-24 end in divorce. That's what I'm basing my response on.
BB07 Posted May 21, 2010 Posted May 21, 2010 Cal, there's a big difference between celibacy (and sexual frustration) and alcoholism. This guy's an alcoholic. Edit: and I'm not excusing her affair. An affair is ALWAYS wrong. Maybe I've missed something here, but this is the first time I've seen Samantha mention a drunken episode, so arriving at this conclusion seems very far fetched.
BB07 Posted May 21, 2010 Posted May 21, 2010 I miss Samantha's troggleputty .. analyzing the analysis .. Califnan, I usually get something useful from your posts, but troggleputty was a nutcase and you encouraged him when he was here. Thank goodness....he is gone.
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