This week's counseling session......

May 28, 2010

for once I agree with a therapist here.

otherwise your husband's short time on this planet is being wasted as long as he doesn't have the knowledge to make decisions about how his life should turn out.

I agree with him also, but he didn't exactly man blurting out I'm not sexually attracted. He's more focused on what we can do so the attraction will be there through communication and intimacy.

May 28, 2010

So what, SPECIFICALLY, is his 'game-plan" for resolving that issue?

May 28, 2010

So what, SPECIFICALLY, is his 'game-plan" for resolving that issue?

Owl, my husband and I are going to separate counselors. To be honest, neither of us went into our counseling sessions with the intent being for it to be marriage counseling. My husband announced it was for him and had nothing to do with his marriage to his counselor (and to me.)

My IC has listened to me and has basically told me I need to find a voice and to speak up when things are said or done I disagree with instead of just going through the motions to appease. He thinks the lack of attraction is due to the controlling nature my husband has exhibited or the father/daughter aspects (as opposed to partners) of our relationship.

I think he more or less feels our counseling sessions have run their course. He said he would, of course, continue to see me as long as I want to continue to see him -- but his specific suggestion at this point has been marriage counseling, if I want to continue in the marriage.

May 28, 2010

And....
He just threw the ball into your court. Whatcha gonna do with it?

I know he did. He did a couple of sessions go.

I think my reluctance to go to MC is based in fear. I just don't get how someone can become sexually attracted if they are not. So, if I'm not and I can't become that way it seems MC will be a futile effort at saving the marriage and a successful effort at causing more strife and ending the marriage.

I know that's a horrible attitude and ****ty of me before y'all all jump in to let me know. It is how I have been feeling though. I suppose it's me not wanting to announce I'm not sexually attracted.

Plus, I still miss my XAP a lot at times and don't know why because I'm sure we would not have worked out long term. My counselor says I'm missing the way my XAP made me feel and the reason I miss it so much is because I've never had it in my marriage. He said some people have a strong sense of a need for physical touch and intimacy. He believes I'm one of these people and I was starving by the time I made the decision to have an affair. (He did, by the way, say that was a very bad decision.)

My counselor also said it's important to discover whether or not that feeling can be present within my marriage relationship. He did follow that up, however, with doubt that the feeling could be created if it's simply not there. I kind of pinned him down on that question and he said he did not want to make any statements that pushed me toward divorce or toward having to stay in the marriage. He did say it's very difficult to create the feeling of being sexually attracted if it hasn't ever been there.

May 28, 2010

I know he did. He did a couple of sessions go.

I think my reluctance to go to MC is based in fear. I just don't get how someone can become sexually attracted if they are not. So, if I'm not and I can't become that way it seems MC will be a futile effort at saving the marriage and a successful effort at causing more strife and ending the marriage.

I know that's a horrible attitude and ****ty of me before y'all all jump in to let me know. It is how I have been feeling though. I suppose it's me not wanting to announce I'm not sexually attracted.

Plus, I still miss my XAP a lot at times and don't know why because I'm sure we would not have worked out long term. My counselor says I'm missing the way my XAP made me feel and the reason I miss it so much is because I've never had it in my marriage. He said some people have a strong sense of a need for physical touch and intimacy. He believes I'm one of these people and I was starving by the time I made the decision to have an affair. (He did, by the way, say that was a very bad decision.)

My counselor also said it's important to discover whether or not that feeling can be present within my marriage relationship. He did follow that up, however, with doubt that the feeling could be created if it's simply not there. I kind of pinned him down on that question and he said he did not want to make any statements that pushed me toward divorce or toward having to stay in the marriage. He did say it's very difficult to create the feeling of being sexually attracted if it hasn't ever been there.

But Sam, you will never know if you remain unable to increase the intimacy between you and your husband. And true, clear communication of one's needs and feeling and thoughts is the key to greater intimacy.

Greater intimacy leads to greater sexual attraction, leads to greater sex.

If and when you and your husband work hard enough to be able to talk about all your fears, hopes, dreams, reservations freely and in a calm and compassionate manner, and truly listen to each other with respect, that is the first step to creating emotional intimacy which can lead to sexual attraction.

Stop appeasing. I too did this for way too long. No more.

And my libido has plummeted when we hit a communication wall; when I stuffed my feelings to keep the peace. When he asked what's wrong and I replied "nothing."

You won't know until you try. Make a mental time line and inform him so he too can step up to the plate: I want us, only better and I am willing to do anything in my power to acheive it for one year.

You will never know until you try.

May 28, 2010

So, here's my take Sam.

You are right where you want to be.

You have made numerous comments (complaints) about your marriage and your husband and your feelings for both...but you have done NOTHING to fix or end the situation.

Because if you wanted change...you'd create change.

Your husband is TRYING to create change...and you are fighting his every effort.

That tells me that you don't want it to change, not really.

I don't think that your IC should be done...there should be some serious focus on what makes you so apathetic towards improving things.

May 28, 2010

But Sam, you will never know if you remain unable to increase the intimacy between you and your husband. And true, clear communication of one's needs and feeling and thoughts is the key to greater intimacy.

Greater intimacy leads to greater sexual attraction, leads to greater sex.

If and when you and your husband work hard enough to be able to talk about all your fears, hopes, dreams, reservations freely and in a calm and compassionate manner, and truly listen to each other with respect, that is the first step to creating emotional intimacy which can lead to sexual attraction.

Stop appeasing. I too did this for way too long. No more.

And my libido has plummeted when we hit a communication wall; when I stuffed my feelings to keep the peace. When he asked what's wrong and I replied "nothing."

You won't know until you try. Make a mental time line and inform him so he too can step up to the plate: I want us, only better and I am willing to do anything in my power to acheive it for one year.

You will never know until you try.

Thank you. I agree with what you're saying. I know I need to make a true effort.

So, here's my take Sam.

You are right where you want to be.

You have made numerous comments (complaints) about your marriage and your husband and your feelings for both...but you have done NOTHING to fix or end the situation.

I've done things over time Owl. I'm burned out right now. I have been in a funk since I moved back in after leaving my apartment.

Because if you wanted change...you'd create change.

True.

Your husband is TRYING to create change...and you are fighting his every effort.

As I've said -- he hasn't really tried any more than I have. He's gone through the motions doing something he thought would "fix" things. He's now frustrated they aren't "fixed" and is being even more distant.

That tells me that you don't want it to change, not really.

At this point -- and I think I've made it clear -- I'm not real sure where this will all lead or what I want. I would want for us to have a strong sexual attraction, but it's not there and I'm not sure what to do with that.

I don't think that your IC should be done...there should be some serious focus on what makes you so apathetic towards improving things.

Well, that's part of why I keep going.

May 28, 2010

Morning Samantha.......

I know I've mentioned this before, but I wanted to bring it up again. I think resentment is a big factor in your marriage, it explains the lack of sexual attraction. I would imagine that you resented your husband when his control issues have surfaced and during the early years of your marriage the dynamic of parent/child would create a lot of resentment I would think. The dynamic of him never being able to satisfy you sexually is probably also at work. Heck....just the every day little irritations in a marriage can breed a lot of resentment if they go unchecked.

I also suspect that you are angry with yourself for not speaking up years ago about your wants and needs. IMO....resentment is anger unresolved and stuffed inward. Resentment and anger will kill sexual desire and you've got years of pent up emotions. On one hand you see the good side of your husband but yet on the other you see how he has failed to meet your needs throughout the years and maybe I'm wrong but I think you are angry with yourself for being so passive and not making your needs known.

What do you think about what I've said?

May 28, 2010

Morning Samantha.......

I know I've mentioned this before, but I wanted to bring it up again. I think resentment is a big factor in your marriage, it explains the lack of sexual attraction. I would imagine that you resented your husband when his control issues have surfaced and during the early years of your marriage the dynamic of parent/child would create a lot of resentment I would think. The dynamic of him never being able to satisfy you sexually is probably also at work. Heck....just the every day little irritations in a marriage can breed a lot of resentment if they go unchecked.

I also suspect that you are angry with yourself for not speaking up years ago about your wants and needs. IMO....resentment is anger unresolved and stuffed inward. Resentment and anger will kill sexual desire and you've got years of pent up emotions. On one hand you see the good side of your husband but yet on the other you see how he has failed to meet your needs throughout the years and maybe I'm wrong but I think you are angry with yourself for being so passive and not making your needs known.

What do you think about what I've said?

Good morning BB. I agree with all of it a LOT. I imagine he has a lot of frustration and resentment by now also.

Any suggestions?

May 28, 2010

Good morning BB. I agree with all of it a LOT. I imagine he has a lot of frustration and resentment by now also.

Any suggestions?

I wish I had the magic pill that would wash all of it away, but I don't.

I have a question for you.....maybe it's been mentioned or maybe not, but.....it seems like neither of you express anger at each other very well, is that correct? Discounting the few times he explodes or implodes, which of course was not proportional to the actual incident. It surprises me that he hasn't expressed more anger about the affair. I think he is afraid to.....don't you?

May 28, 2010

BB07...I think you're on to some excellent points here. Odds are that the resentment is hanging on because of the broken communication paths.

Perhaps if the two of you can start being honest and communicating again, you can start working through some of that resentment as well.

But...just as my wife learned...all of this boils down to first making a choice to fix the situation.

May 28, 2010

sometimes we get stuck in our own fear. the only way to get past the fear is to start trying the very things we are afraid of.

yep, try new and different things and see if anything starts to change. try ANYTHING.

some things are bound to start feeling better/good. then do those things more.

this automatically starts to change things in your life. it may be uncomfortable but that's not the worst thing in the world - at least YOU are creating some form of hope! uncomfortable with the possibility of being happy is way better than comfortable and full of misery with no hope.

try new things. move out again. start new hobbies that you always wanted to try. join a few group that have common interests as you do. volunteer so you feel you are helping others. go on a garden tour. go to a concert with a girlfriend.

i don't know - except you need to start living and enjoying yourself in a new way - a way that brings you hope for the future instead of depending upon your family and H to bring that to you.

take control over what you have choices to do/be - for yourself! this could be very exciting for you... if you let go enough to find out what happy looks like for you. start living a little... xo

May 28, 2010

I read a thread last night (will look for it later) where a poster did say that the affair magnified problems within the marriage.

Also I think the M person can try to remain true to the A or AP (and what it represented) while being in the marriage.

May 28, 2010

[sIZE=5][COLOR=#990000]Samantha0905[/COLOR][/sIZE]

It depends on the specific sexual situation/partner.

When I'm totally enjoying it, it's way sexual for me and him. It's about me pleasing him. He pleases me also. We're totally there ...

This doesn't sound like you and your husband. Are you having another affair(s)?

From what you posted on:

What Do Women Think about During Sex?

May 28, 2010

I wish I had the magic pill that would wash all of it away, but I don't.

I have a question for you.....maybe it's been mentioned or maybe not, but.....it seems like neither of you express anger at each other very well, is that correct? Discounting the few times he explodes or implodes, which of course was not proportional to the actual incident. It surprises me that he hasn't expressed more anger about the affair. I think he is afraid to.....don't you?

Drats. I need that pill.

The only time we ever express anger is on the rare occasions where he throws hi drunken fits. I yelled once when intoxicated -- that was after my daughter's wedding and all the excitement.

We don't fight or even really have little spats in every day life.

I think he just doesn't want me to leave again -- so yes, I guess there is fear involved.

BB07...I think you're on to some excellent points here. Odds are that the resentment is hanging on because of the broken communication paths.

Perhaps if the two of you can start being honest and communicating again, you can start working through some of that resentment as well.

But...just as my wife learned...all of this boils down to first making a choice to fix the situation.

Yes, I think the resentments have a lot to do with the current state of affairs.

sometimes we get stuck in our own fear. the only way to get past the fear is to start trying the very things we are afraid of.

yep, try new and different things and see if anything starts to change. try ANYTHING.

some things are bound to start feeling better/good. then do those things more.

this automatically starts to change things in your life. it may be uncomfortable but that's not the worst thing in the world - at least YOU are creating some form of hope! uncomfortable with the possibility of being happy is way better than comfortable and full of misery with no hope.

try new things. move out again. start new hobbies that you always wanted to try. join a few group that have common interests as you do. volunteer so you feel you are helping others. go on a garden tour. go to a concert with a girlfriend.

i don't know - except you need to start living and enjoying yourself in a new way - a way that brings you hope for the future instead of depending upon your family and H to bring that to you.

take control over what you have choices to do/be - for yourself! this could be very exciting for you... if you let go enough to find out what happy looks like for you. start living a little... xo

I know you're right.

I read a thread last night (will look for it later) where a poster did say that the affair magnified problems within the marriage.

Also I think the M person can try to remain true to the A or AP (and what it represented) while being in the marriage.

I certainly did not want to have sex with my husband while having sex with my AP. I know that's crazy logic -- but I could not do both.

And, of course, since I wasn't enjoying sex with my husband in the first place -- and then enjoyed it immensely with my AP -- it made the issue seem magnified.

[sIZE=5][COLOR=#990000]Samantha0905[/COLOR][/sIZE]

It depends on the specific sexual situation/partner.
When I'm totally enjoying it, it's way sexual for me and him. It's about me pleasing him. He pleases me also. We're totally there ...

This doesn't sound like you and your husband. Are you having another affair(s)?

From what you posted on:
What Do Women Think about During Sex?

It isn't like me and my husband. At all. We haven't had sex since last June and when we did, I did not enjoy it.

I'm not having another affair. I was speaking as to how I felt when I did have sex with my XAP. It was way sexual for both of us -- and both of us pleasing each other.

May 28, 2010

OK, well good luck, Sam. I know I'm done here. You know quite well at this point what the problems are, and what the fixes are.

You just don't care enough to do anything.

I'm an action-oriented advice giver...so I've reached the end of what I can offer.

I wish you and your H both well.

May 28, 2010

I certainly did not want to have sex with my husband while having sex with my AP. I know that's crazy logic -- but I could not do both.

And, of course, since I wasn't enjoying sex with my husband in the first place -- and then enjoyed it immensely with my AP -- it made the issue seem magnified.

QUOTE]

---------------------

Also I speaking of having had the affair, the remembrance of the affair could magnifiy the problems within the marriage.. And you may wish to save yourself for another partner similar to the AP.

May 28, 2010

califnan - good point, she will always compare AP to husband and can never surpass lover. Time to let H find a compatible mate and for you to go on to sex with someone you RESPECT.

May 29, 2010

califnan - good point, she will always compare AP to husband and can never surpass lover. Time to let H find a compatible mate and for you to go on to sex with someone you RESPECT.

---------------

I really didn't mean it that way Jock .. I meant that the memory of the affair has helped to sabatoge the marriage. Otherwise it may be easier to work on the marriage.

May 29, 2010

Sorry if I misinterpted (spelling?) what you said. But my point is she had great sex with cheating, and lousy sex with loving husband. Could the fact she was committing adultery be the reason for the great sex. Maybe she should screw a stranger and if that is also great sex, then she obviously only has good sex when she cheats. Does anyone else see this?

May 29, 2010

Sorry if I misinterpted (spelling?) what you said. But my point is she had great sex with cheating, and lousy sex with loving husband. Could the fact she was committing adultery be the reason for the great sex. Maybe she should screw a stranger and if that is also great sex, then she obviously only has good sex when she cheats. Does anyone else see this?

----------------

All I know is, the AP is not marriage material .. so I am assuming the sex was for intimate entertainment. .. I think Samantha has suggested that she loves him, but intimacy will do that.

May 29, 2010

Sorry if I misinterpted (spelling?) what you said. But my point is she had great sex with cheating, and lousy sex with loving husband. Could the fact she was committing adultery be the reason for the great sex. Maybe she should screw a stranger and if that is also great sex, then she obviously only has good sex when she cheats. Does anyone else see this?

NO I don't see what you see. It's not that simplistic. You are forgetting that she has NEVER had good sex with her husband. It's possible that when they were young, inexperience and lack of skills had a lot to do with it and the fact that Samantha didn't speak up or maybe didn't even know as to what she needed/was missing at that time.....then time passed and she realized she was missing something. She had a ahhh haaa moment so to speak. In RL there are times when we don't really know what we are missing until we actually experience it and this is the case for Samantha.....she knows now.

Now there are layers and layers of stuff, anger not spoken of and disappointments.

May 29, 2010

Samantha....I think Owl has given you some wise advice.

There is a line from a song, (don't remember what song) about loving someone with one foot out the door. At some point in time, you do need to get both feet on one side or the other of that door.

Hugs.........BB

May 29, 2010

I think resentment is a big factor in your marriage, it explains the lack of sexual attraction.

But resentment is normally something that is building up over the years whereas the lack of sexual attraction was already there from the very start. It was never there so how can you bring it back.

Samantha, do you actually find your H a handsome, attractive man?

May 29, 2010

OK, well good luck, Sam. I know I'm done here. You know quite well at this point what the problems are, and what the fixes are.

You just don't care enough to do anything.

I'm an action-oriented advice giver...so I've reached the end of what I can offer.

I wish you and your H both well.

Thanks for the well wishes. Knowing the fixes does not always compel a person to take the action. It's not that simple in this situation. And I do care.

I certainly did not want to have sex with my husband while having sex with my AP. I know that's crazy logic -- but I could not do both.

And, of course, since I wasn't enjoying sex with my husband in the first place -- and then enjoyed it immensely with my AP -- it made the issue seem magnified.

QUOTE]

---------------------

Also I speaking of having had the affair, the remembrance of the affair could magnifiy the problems within the marriage.. And you may wish to save yourself for another partner similar to the AP.

I still miss THE affair partner. I'm not thinking of other men, but I do understand what you are trying to say and there is truth in it.

califnan - good point, she will always compare AP to husband and can never surpass lover. Time to let H find a compatible mate and for you to go on to sex with someone you RESPECT.

I suppose we'll know when that time is here if it comes.

Sorry if I misinterpted (spelling?) what you said. But my point is she had great sex with cheating, and lousy sex with loving husband. Could the fact she was committing adultery be the reason for the great sex. Maybe she should screw a stranger and if that is also great sex, then she obviously only has good sex when she cheats. Does anyone else see this?

I'm not the screw a stranger type CJ. I've only slept with two men in my life. I hardly think it's fair to come to the conclusion I ONLY get good sex when I cheat. I'm sure there are men out there I could have sex with and think yuck -- cheating or not.

----------------

All I know is, the AP is not marriage material .. so I am assuming the sex was for intimate entertainment. .. I think Samantha has suggested that she loves him, but intimacy will do that.

He certainly has his issues. I did feel like I loved him and had nice times with him other than when we were making love.

NO I don't see what you see. It's not that simplistic. You are forgetting that she has NEVER had good sex with her husband. It's possible that when they were young, inexperience and lack of skills had a lot to do with it and the fact that Samantha didn't speak up or maybe didn't even know as to what she needed/was missing at that time.....then time passed and she realized she was missing something. She had a ahhh haaa moment so to speak. In RL there are times when we don't really know what we are missing until we actually experience it and this is the case for Samantha.....she knows now.

Now there are layers and layers of stuff, anger not spoken of and disappointments.

Thank you BB. You're stating what happened and how I feel well.

Samantha....I think Owl has given you some wise advice.

There is a line from a song, (don't remember what song) about loving someone with one foot out the door. At some point in time, you do need to get both feet on one side or the other of that door.

Hugs.........BB

Thanks. I know.

But resentment is normally something that is building up over the years whereas the lack of sexual attraction was already there from the very start. It was never there so how can you bring it back.

Samantha, do you actually find your H a handsome, attractive man?

I think we were so young we just didn't know what we were doing in the beginning. I don't know why we never figured it out well with each other.

Yes, he is a very handsome man. He's tall, dark and handsome.

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