Please discuss reasons for taking a cheating spouse back.

[JustJoe]

Reboot, Because of my stupid title post,(which I have admitted, ad Nauseum) every thing I say or question I ask, is almost always answered within the context of that opening post. Some of the posters are people I respect, and even they can't refrain from pointing out my past"misdeeds". It will be a very long time before I will start another thread. Thanks a bunch, anywhoo. I really appreciate your posts, a lot.

[reboot]

Reboot, Because of my stupid title post,(which I have admitted, ad Nauseum) every thing I say or question I ask, is almost always answered within the context of that opening post. Some of the posters are people I respect, and even they can't refrain from pointing out my past"misdeeds". It will be a very long time before I will start another thread. Thanks a bunch, anywhoo.

 

I think most people are honestly trying to respond to your questions at this point. Just overlook anyone that seems to have an agenda. It's the only way to survive here.

[Owl]

JJ, what I posted about how you're coming across had nothing to do with your initial title or post.

 

It had to do specifically with the posts I quoted.

 

And when I pointed it out, I tried to be tactful and honest about how your comments came across to me. I didn't do it to call you out, I did it to let you know that those specific comments triggered that specific response in me.

 

I'm trying to politely suggest that you consider how some of the things you say come across as insulting, when you apparently don't mean them to do so. That way, you can try to avoid those things in the future.

 

Sorry if I offended you...I'll refrain from posting any such comments in the future.

[JustJoe]

Owl, What I think is that my opening post has "colored", some other posters' answers to me. Instead of relating their reconciliation stories, they seem to be focusing on any post I make, with the intent of finding some additional faux pas or sign that I'm being biased or uncaring. If Tony won't close the thread, I think that I will just observe from now on, and let the other posters talk amongst themselves, and glean what information I can from their posts. I really don't see any way my continued participation can be of value. I fully understand your intent is to acquaint me with my lack of tact, and thank you for it.

[rewe4reel]

That's quite an assumption. I'm sure reboot didn't say anything about causing the OP to get involved. The condition existed within the M and everything fell into place based on that.

 

If the condition of the marriage did not cause the affair partner to get involved, then it could not have been a cause of the affair.

[rewe4reel]

So, many of you say that your history together, can help you predict how your SO will act? Aren't you as BS'S taking a lot on faith? If you really knew your SO'S and what they are capable of, how did you allow things to get so bad that they cheated?

 

I don't find this question by JustJoe condescending or out of line, it's precisely pertinent.

 

What I believe he is asking pertains to the "illusion of control" over our fates.

 

If we believe that we actually in some way have "control" over our spouse's behavior so as to have some ability to inhibit them from cheating, then why do we have it now but not prior to the cheating which actually occurred?

 

IOW I think the real point with this question is "How do we know that our belief that things are now 'better' is anything other than an illusion?"

 

Answer: We don't. We just don't know. We could be deceiving ourselves, with help from the spouse of course.

 

So what has been lost is the difference between thinking "This could never happen to me, impossible" vs. "If this happens again, then...."

 

Two different universes. Unconditional vs. conditional.

 

The decision to remain in a marriage with a spouse who has cheated reduces to a pragmatic cost-benefit analysis: Do I believe the benefits of remaining in the marriage are reasonably likely to outweigh the risks? The major risk being "Will he/she do it again?"

 

When we got married in the first place, at least for most of us, we didn't have to compute, we didn't think we had to compute, the odds of being cheated on as an input into the marital equation.

[Spark1111]

JustJoe, I am not offended by you or your tone.

 

I think you do post questions from your own perception; that's okay with me, because we all do that.

 

Many marriages do go bad and then blow apart from infidelity; people divorce blaming and hating each other for all eternity and that's all she wrote.

 

Doubt they are posting here at LS.

 

Those of us who HAVE successfully reconciled, take blame for our part in the demise of communication, the start of complacency in our relationships, but never the affair and here's why:

 

We have educated ourselves as to the dynamics necessary to engage in an affair, and for the most part, there is a character defect of the person who steps outside the marriage. They are poor communicators, avoid conflict and often suffer from low self-esteem.

 

Think of it this way: There are no "perfect" relationships; sadness and hardships and a lack of sexual and emotional intimacy can befall all marriages at any given time.

 

But almost half would never consider cheating. Why do you think that is?

 

Because they just would not, could not even conceive of that as an option, no matter who is flirting or showing attraction to them.

 

So many of us who have successfully reconciled and post here are telling the same old scripted story over and over again; WS grew depressed, mid-life crisis, several life stressors, unhappy within themselves, refused to talk about it, refused to communicate their needs, but somehow started to distance themselves from us; somehow started to blame us for what ailed them: We were too busy, too inattentive, not sexually desirous enough...blah, blah, blah.

 

It was EASIER for them to believe someone ELSE, someone NEW could fill those needs than to fix themselves, and thereby, help to fix the marriage.

 

We too wanted a better marriage. We just did not know how to get there without our spouse's participation. So we gave space and time and thought they'd come around, be ready to sort it out.

 

We were crushed when we learned of the existence of the OM/OW, but we knew the affair was a symptom, not a terminal disease.

 

So whether out of history, love or compassion for our WS, we hung around to see if we could make it work again; if both parties were willing to reinvest in a new relationship, one with better communication, appreciation and respect.

 

Does that answer your questions?

[JustJoe]

See, Sparks, this is what I was talking about!! I really wanted to know the process and the emotional issues that the BS faces, while trying to re-connect. But I'v had to spend most of my time defending myself. I admire anyone who has the courage to face this kind of situation (affair) and come out the other side, a better, more mature person, with the ability to take on the tough issues , both parties are facing.

[Owl]

JustJoe, I am not offended by you or your tone.

 

I think you do post questions from your own perception; that's okay with me, because we all do that.

 

Many marriages do go bad and then blow apart from infidelity; people divorce blaming and hating each other for all eternity and that's all she wrote.

 

Doubt they are posting here at LS.

 

Those of us who HAVE successfully reconciled, take blame for our part in the demise of communication, the start of complacency in our relationships, but never the affair and here's why:

 

We have educated ourselves as to the dynamics necessary to engage in an affair, and for the most part, there is a character defect of the person who steps outside the marriage. They are poor communicators, avoid conflict and often suffer from low self-esteem.

 

Think of it this way: There are no "perfect" relationships; sadness and hardships and a lack of sexual and emotional intimacy can befall all marriages at any given time.

 

But almost half would never consider cheating. Why do you think that is?

 

Because they just would not, could not even conceive of that as an option, no matter who is flirting or showing attraction to them.

 

So many of us who have successfully reconciled and post here are telling the same old scripted story over and over again; WS grew depressed, mid-life crisis, several life stressors, unhappy within themselves, refused to talk about it, refused to communicate their needs, but somehow started to distance themselves from us; somehow started to blame us for what ailed them: We were too busy, too inattentive, not sexually desirous enough...blah, blah, blah.

 

It was EASIER for them to believe someone ELSE, someone NEW could fill those needs than to fix themselves, and thereby, help to fix the marriage.

 

We too wanted a better marriage. We just did not know how to get there without our spouse's participation. So we gave space and time and thought they'd come around, be ready to sort it out.

 

We were crushed when we learned of the existence of the OM/OW, but we knew the affair was a symptom, not a terminal disease.

 

So whether out of history, love or compassion for our WS, we hung around to see if we could make it work again; if both parties were willing to reinvest in a new relationship, one with better communication, appreciation and respect.

 

Does that answer your questions?

 

Hey...wasn't that what I said?!?!?!?! :D :D

 

Good summary here.

[soserious1]

What I meant by the last paragraph, is if you as a BS, have a certain amount of history with your WS, and knew them pretty well, how do you let things get to this stage, where the WS feels that an affair is worth it? Is it inattention to their needs/ wants, or is it something else?

 

 

Because we cannot control other people? because normal folks aren't the mind police? Because we expect other adults to actually open their mouths and communicate their needs and complaints to us openly and honestly?

 

 

So yes, IMHO it is "something else" it's the failure on the part of the WS to communicate clearly "Dear if you don't start or stop doing Xyz I'm going to divorce you because I can't/won't live this way any longer" prior to bedding somebody else.

 

Btw, your post above, that clearly lays the blame for the affair at the feet of the BS is exactly why people are focusing on you

your basic msg appears to be "Fail to meet my needs and it's your fault I cheat" very loudly and clearly.

Edited May 20, 2010 by soserious1

[Spark1111]

See, Sparks, this is what I was talking about!! I really wanted to know the process and the emotional issues that the BS faces, while trying to re-connect. But I'v had to spend most of my time defending myself. I admire anyone who has the courage to face this kind of situation (affair) and come out the other side, a better, more mature person, with the ability to take on the tough issues , both parties are facing.

 

 

Thanks, Joe! It takes more courage to reconcile with a remorseful WS than it does to pack a bag and walk away.

 

It's the hardest thing I've ever done and I am here trying to help others.

 

My worst days? When my ego wakes up before me and shakes me hard like an attacking rattler. It's screaming all sorts of painful feelings, but I have to wresle it to the ground and see the bigger picture.

 

Not sure everyone has that strength, and I do not blame those who divorce.

 

But I am so glad WE are doing the work together. It's an amazing relationship today.

 

I am happy WE were strong enough and committed enough to make it so.

[Spark1111]

Hey...wasn't that what I said?!?!?!?! :D :D

 

Good summary here.

 

Thanks Owl! I think, yes, you did, but I've known you longer than JustJoe!;)

[Snowflower]

My worst days? When my ego wakes up before me and shakes me hard like an attacking rattler. It's screaming all sorts of painful feelings, but I have to wresle it to the ground and see the bigger picture.

 

 

 

OMG, I love what you wrote here. I can relate. Its like I wake up some mornings with it weighing on my mind and I'm almost angry again.

 

Yes, sometimes my ego wakes up before me.

[crazycatlady]

I thought I had posted this morning and it turns out I didn't .

 

Wonder where my post went? Anyway.....

 

Lots of thoughts....

 

Reboot - Love your posts! Just love them!

 

Joe - someone mentioned innocence in trust being shattered....See, mine were shattered way before H had his affair. I think in part is actually made it easier to deal with it. I knew humans, even good humans, were flawed individuals. That there was no such thing as perfection.

 

Why is history important? Because, for me history is where the pain vs pleasure and the amount of each comes into play. If we had been married two years, and he had an affair that spanned half that time, well, it could be the pain vs pleasure would come out the other direction. But when you look at a 14 year relationship and a 1 year affair? The pleasure has a fair shot of being the heavier side.

 

CCL

[silktricks]

What I meant by the last paragraph, is if you as a BS, have a certain amount of history with your WS, and knew them pretty well, how do you let things get to this stage, where the WS feels that an affair is worth it? Is it inattention to their needs/ wants, or is it something else?

 

Hmnmm - for me/us... I was in a terrible depression (as was my husband, but neither he nor I knew it at the time). I couldn't deal with what was going on in my life so completely withdrew to take care of "me", and he withdrew to take care of "him". As a result, he thought I didn't care for/love him. I thought he didn't care for/love me. We each started to get involved in something where we would get more strokes. He got his from another woman.

I got mine from work. Neither was very healthy. (Though mine did bring home more money... )

[JustJoe]

Soserious, I'm only going to answer you , this once. This is a BS thread, I am interested in the BS point of view, and want to stay on topic. I was giving a "for instance", and was wanting responses about whether BS'S feel that they have any responsibility, given the history aspect. If you think that I'm blaming the BS, or excusing the WS,you are totally wrong, and apparently haven't heard anything I've said, except what you want to hear.

[White Flower]

If the condition of the marriage did not cause the affair partner to get involved, then it could not have been a cause of the affair.

A little reaching, but I suppose if you look at the bigger bigger bigger (lol) picture.

 

You do know the AP is usually one in the same as the OP right? The AP within the M is usually called the WS, WH, or WW.

[White Flower]

Soserious, I'm only going to answer you , this once. This is a BS thread, I am interested in the BS point of view, and want to stay on topic. I was giving a "for instance", and was wanting responses about whether BS'S feel that they have any responsibility, given the history aspect. If you think that I'm blaming the BS, or excusing the WS,you are totally wrong, and apparently haven't heard anything I've said, except what you want to hear.

Joe, it was obvious from the outset that your inquiry was an innocent one. You always post in a friendly manner so don't take anyone serious if they can't respond in kind. Like reebs said, thick skin. I know you're tough enough;)

[JustJoe]

I know, WF. It is, however, very frustrating to have to explain every word and phrase, and still try to keep the thread on topic.

[CrayonAngel]

One thing I've noticed, is that BS's who take their WS or WSO's back are the ones who are most angry at the OM/OW's.. So is/ and how much self-delusion is involved? I mean, You KNOW that they are liars, and you KNOW that they are deceptive, yet many will believe them , even after that.

 

wooooweeeee some people like drama. JustJoe I don't see any good intention in you posting this thread so why get defensive now?

[JustJoe]

Crayon, you are entitled to your opinion and good luck with it.

[White Flower]

wooooweeeee some people like drama. JustJoe I don't see any good intention in you posting this thread so why get defensive now?

In defense of Joe, not that he needs it, I will say that many people cannot understand taking back a liar. The same people may believe in sending bad people to prison in order to rehabilitate, or sending a partner to rehab for a drug addiction but for some reason don't believe that cheating is in the same category as the former. They all lied and carried on double lives but we tend to forgive some behaviors over others which is kind of arbitrary if you think about it. I believe Joe is trying to understand this and wants us to convince him.

 

I still love your avie CA

[silktricks]

In defense of Joe, not that he needs it, I will say that many people cannot understand taking back a liar. The same people may believe in sending bad people to prison in order to rehabilitate, or sending a partner to rehab for a drug addiction but for some reason don't believe that cheating is in the same category as the former. They all lied and carried on double lives but we tend to forgive some behaviors over others which is kind of arbitrary if you think about it. I believe Joe is trying to understand this and wants us to convince him.

 

I still love your avie CA

 

I know you do not believe cheating is worthy of a jail cell, nor on a par with drug addiction anymore than you would believe that a mild case of kleptomania is on par with armed robbery. That we tend to forgive some behaviors over others really isn't all the arbitrary. It mostly depends upon the level of betrayal either of society or each other, but usually society.

 

As you have said on more than one occasion, I believe (unless I have you mixed up with someone else), there are many shades of gray in life. That is true of BS, OW <AND> WS as well. Some are unrepentant cads who will rip out heart after heart simply because he/she can. Others truly fall in love with another person and take the "wrong way" to proceed with that love. Yet others make the "mistake" of allowing themselves to become attracted to someone other than their spouse then later and with heartrending pain regretting their actions. Most OW/OM want to believe "their" MP is the 2nd type. Most BS want to believe "their" WS is the third.

 

Did they all cheat? Yes, they did. Did they all lie? Yes, they did. The outcome of each, though will probably be different. Answers to some of Joes questions for each would also be different. For example, he asked if a BS showed weakness to forgive the WS. Most people would probably agree that a BS who was cheated upon time after time after time and kept taking the WS back is lacking a bit in the backbone area. But just as the WS and OW cannot be tidily lumped into a neat cookie cutter box (I know mixed similies, but bear with me), neither can the BS. There is no "one size fits all" in life - it would make things easier in some ways, but terribly boring in others.

 

You say many people cannot understand taking back a liar. Yet every OW/OM out there KNOWS without a particle of a doubt that the object of their affections is a liar. Ahhhh but they don't lie to ME, is the obvious (and oft used) reply. Nonetheless, they are liars. I don't believe "once a cheat always a cheat" but I do believe that a person who finds it OK to lie to person A, will usually find it more readily OK to lie to person B as well. Not because they don't care, but because they have (unless they go through a LOT of work to fix it) proven themselves to be conflict avoiders. The easiest way to avoid conflict is to lie and/or manipulate your way out of it..

 

So OW/OM don't find it hard to accept a known liar when they love that person. What's so difficult to understand about the BS???

Edited May 21, 2010 by silktricks

[soserious1]

Soserious, I'm only going to answer you , this once. This is a BS thread, I am interested in the BS point of view, and want to stay on topic. I was giving a "for instance", and was wanting responses about whether BS'S feel that they have any responsibility, given the history aspect. If you think that I'm blaming the BS, or excusing the WS,you are totally wrong, and apparently haven't heard anything I've said, except what you want to hear.

 

 

 

I can think of only one reason to take back a WS...and that would be in the case of marriages with small children where the BS needs time to gather papers, fiscal resources before divorcing the lying scum.

 

And no, aside from marrying my ex POS in the 1st place I don't feel any responsibility for his choices. Btw, I have zero anger towards his AP's, they weren't married to me nor where they sitting here happily sucking down my

paycheck, living large at my expense, he was. My anger is directed at the person who broke his vows and literally destroyed every shred of self-esteem I had in the process.

Edited May 21, 2010 by soserious1

[JustJoe]

Soserious, I can readily understand why you feel the way you do. I think your decision to D was a wise one. I know that every situation is, of course, different, but none of them seem any easier than any others. I applaud BS's that have gone on to reconcile after a one time affair, but really have a problem with BS'S who condone repeat affairs. I have, as yet, not formed any hard and fast opinion, but am really interested in the various responses...............other than the bashing, of course.:D