Please discuss reasons for taking a cheating spouse back.

[seren]

Just Joe said: Again, I'm just throwing out ideas, but it seems that the only thing that cannot be "rebuilt", following an affair, is the innocent illusions, of trust and stability, that the BS had before D-day. It would seem to me to be a far easier task, to build NEW trust and faith, on a new, improved foundation of communication, selflessness, and genuine affection.

 

I would agree to some extent Joe. Rebuilding trust and stability is hard, but not impossible. I trusted after D Day that H could be in a room full of women and not betray me (or himself) again, to have stayed without that trust would have been a no brainer for me. For many of us who have reconciled and to some extent rebuilt our marriages after an A, the foundations were rock solid and remained no matter what.

 

It took 26 years for me and H to build a strong relationship, 8 months for H (during the A) to tumble the blocks of our marriage to the ground, BUT our foundations remained and by God they needed to be strong to rebuild my shattered trust. It took understanding of H and what was going on in our M to not so much explain the A, but to explain what had gone wrong with our M that saw H having a relationship with OW.

 

I remember after D Day speaking with her and her shouting at me that I was making H stay, was stopping him from speaking to her and that she really knew him - I just thought that if you think that H would stop doing those things because I told him then you really don't know him at all. I know that I would have been unspeakably hurt had we spilt up, but would have helped to unravel our M and all that went with it and wished him well had he loved her. Difference between us - I knew him, warts and all and still loved him, yes I know she was hurt (and felt sorry for her as another human being in pain) but the difference was that I had lived with him all that time, seen him at his absolute worse, his pain in the Ar** behaviour, his PTSD, the bloody A and still loved him and wished him happiness. To reconcile took so much courage, we started at the beginning, building on our foundations brick by bloody brick and it is dammed good. Trust and stability are just another brick in the wall (to quote Pink Floyd).

Sorry for the long winded, probably off topic post (again).

[sally4sara]

Again, I'm just throwing out ideas, but it seems that the only thing that cannot be "rebuilt", following an affair, is the innocent illusions, of trust and stability, that the BS had before D-day. It would seem to me to be a far easier task, to build NEW trust and faith, on a new, improved foundation of communication, selflessness, and genuine affection.

 

I agree that it would be a difficult task to trust again after an affair and it is a task I'm not sure I could do.

 

But innocent illusions? I'm not so sure anyone really has this going into a marriage. It may be a sign of the times or just my practical nature. I do have much trust in my partner; he has given me no reason to not be able to have trust in him. But to say I got married thinking infidelity could never darken my door would be a lie. I think most people, simply for knowing it happens, are incapable of holding anything I'd call innocent illusions. You walk into a marriage knowing it is a gamble based on what you perceive to be good odds of success, but knowing it is not a sure thing.

It is once an affair comes into the mix that makes gambling seem a less intelligent endeavor.

Maybe, for some people, it is that they gambled getting into the marriage in the first place - and that they now realize they'd be doing the same with anyone they start a new relationship with, that prompts them to gamble again on who they are already with?

[seren]

I am one of those people who believed and trusted in love, fidelity, truth, trust, having your back kind of love. I truly think I lived in a 30's musical most of the time. In my professional life I was ruthless, professional, assertive, no nonsense. In my marriage, I just loved with all of me, totally, as I used to say - truly, madly, deeply. The A has affected my naivety, it is one of the things that H absolutely is gutted about, he so hates that he feels he has brought the A into my life (his words) has shattered my belief in the whole la, la, la love stuff. I think I was just so trusting, so naive and will never, ever be that way again, to lose that absolute joy is sad, hard and I so hope to find it again.

[SueBee3490]

I think I was just so trusting, so naive and will never, ever be that way again,

 

Me either - his cheating changed my whole outlook on love.

[Owl]

Again, I'm just throwing out ideas, but it seems that the only thing that cannot be "rebuilt", following an affair, is the innocent illusions, of trust and stability, that the BS had before D-day. It would seem to me to be a far easier task, to build NEW trust and faith, on a new, improved foundation of communication, selflessness, and genuine affection.

 

Here's something you're not considering, my friend.

 

That innocence, that blind trust...it's gone...REGARDLESS of who you later choose to build a relationship with.

 

You learn the tough lesson that there's no garauntee that it won't happen to you.

 

It wouldn't have mattered if I had left my wife and started with someone new, or rebuilt a new relationship with my wife...that "blind trust" was shattered regardless, and I know that there's no way that I'll EVER blindly trust like that again.

 

With that said, I'm absolutely one of those 'rare' folks who has successfully reconciled and rebuilt our marriage after her affair.

 

Why? Simple...I knew how wonderful things could be between us for decades prior to the affair and the events that led up to it.

 

We had years and years of wonderful foundation to rebuild from. We both knew how good things could be...we just had to figure out where things went wrong, fix them, and shore up our marriage with some maintenance to ensure that we don't get back to that kind of point again.

 

We've got an AWESOME marriage again today, six years after that rough time.

 

I'm not living in fear of it happening again. I'm not living in the past, focused on what happened all the time (although it DID take about two years for me to get past that point). My wife is not living as a hostage, constantly being blamed and beaten down by past mistakes.

 

We have FUN, we love each other, and our communication is as good or better than pretty much any other couple I know of.

 

Why would I choose to reconcile with her than end the relationship and look for someone new? Because I know how good things can be between us. I've got no reason to go somewhere else. On top of that...I know that she learned some really tough life lessons out of what we went through...she's got more reason than most to actively protect our marriage going forward. She knows the risks now of not doing so, whereas if I were to try to start with someone else, they most likely won't have learned that same lesson.

 

There's my view.

[Spark1111]

Again, I'm just throwing out ideas, but it seems that the only thing that cannot be "rebuilt", following an affair, is the innocent illusions, of trust and stability, that the BS had before D-day. It would seem to me to be a far easier task, to build NEW trust and faith, on a new, improved foundation of communication, selflessness, and genuine affection.

 

Yes, it is a new trust, a new relationship, improved communciation.

 

Yes, I will never blindly trust as I once did; not him, not anyone. I just can't. It's a fundamental change caused by an affair.

 

And I think, in retrospect, that bothers him so much more than me, to have lost such a precious gift of someone so in love they trust you implicitly.

 

But it is all good. We refuse to ever grow so complacent about "us" again.

[silktricks]

Good story, Seren, but you are in a decided minority. Most marriages don't survive A'S, even after the BS tries to reconcile. It's no accident that there are so many websites dedicated to repairing broken relationships....Another question is , Are BS's showing weakness, by taking their WS/WSO back?

 

You are stating this as a fact - I'm not sure that it is. It seems to be an idea that is repeated often, but just as other "facts" (like a MM will never leave his wife for the OW), seems to be based more upon people's opinions than on anything concrete. Many marriages certainly do not survive affairs, but many people don't talk about what happened in their marriages - just as many people don't mention how they met - it all feels pretty artificial to me.

 

To answer the original question, I love/loved my husband very deeply. He was terribly ashamed of what he did and worked hard at recovering my trust. Why would I throw away something we both wanted because of pain? I've lived long enough and have experienced enough troubles in my life to know that life is what we make it. We are both happy now. We made the right decision.

 

To answer the question in this post: I believe that some BS take back their spouses due to weakness, but the marriage will not be recovered with that basis. To actually recover a marriage takes tremendous strength.

[silktricks]

it's almost like a new marriage , but to the same person.

 

This is an extremely good description IMO of a recovered marriage. It is new. The problems that led to the affair have been resolved. It's a far far better relationship than it really ever was pre-affair.

[silktricks]

Again, I'm just throwing out ideas, but it seems that the only thing that cannot be "rebuilt", following an affair, is the innocent illusions, of trust and stability, that the BS had before D-day. It would seem to me to be a far easier task, to build NEW trust and faith, on a new, improved foundation of communication, selflessness, and genuine affection.

 

hmmm. Well, I haven't had "innocent illusions" for a long long time, if in fact I ever had them.

 

But as for trust and stability, those are fully recovered and rebuilt. I do not worry at all about our stability and I trust him actually far more now than I've ever trusted anyone - including him pre-affair. I know him at a much deeper level now. We have each exposed parts of ourselves that we weren't willing to expose before.

 

I'm not saying that there was anything apparently "missing" before, because we were close - probably closer than many are. But there now is understanding of each other (and ourselves) at a level we didn't have previously. We went through a lot, pretty much tore ourselves to bedrock and rebuilt.

[JustJoe]

Another curiosity I have is that "history", seems to play a huge part in reconciliation. Yet, if the history was so wonderful, why did the affair happen, in the first place? So many times, I will read a WS saying really great things about their SO, " my husband/wife is a wonderful person", "he's my soulmate", "she's the love of my life", "we have a really good marriage", but they still cheat, anyway. This would be a huge drawback for me. I know what I think our relationship was/is, but I don't know , really, what my SO thinks our relationship was/is. So, many of you say that your history together, can help you predict how your SO will act? Aren't you as BS'S taking a lot on faith? If you really knew your SO'S and what they are capable of, how did you allow things to get so bad that they cheated?

[Owl]

Another curiosity I have is that "history", seems to play a huge part in reconciliation. Yet, if the history was so wonderful, why did the affair happen, in the first place? So many times, I will read a WS saying really great things about their SO, " my husband/wife is a wonderful person", "he's my soulmate", "she's the love of my life", "we have a really good marriage", but they still cheat, anyway. This would be a huge drawback for me. I know what I think our relationship was/is, but I don't know , really, what my SO thinks our relationship was/is.

Well, here's how it went for me.

 

We did have that great history. Our marriage had it's ups and downs, but for the most part was WONDERFUL for about 16 years prior to when things went bad.

 

Then my wife broke her leg, lost her job, and got involved in online gaming all within about a month. Right alongside of this, triggered by these events, she started showing increasing signs of depression...big time.

 

But of course one of the common side effects of this is that you can't SEE the depression you're in because you're in it. (kinda like that 'fog' we talk about here so often)

 

She refused to see the doctor, refused to make changes...all the while, during this time our marriage got worse and worse as a result. As much as I fought and tried to do whatever I could to fix things, there was little I could do...because the majority of the 'issues' were really all to do with HER, and outside of my control.

 

It wasn't until the affair, and then finally d-day that it made the need for her to make changes so obvious that she HAD to do it, or had to leave.

 

What led to her affair was a series of things. Am I 'taking a risk' that it could happen again...well, yes and no. Yep, things could go bad again. They could also go bad even if I were with someone else. But, I'm also a lot more educated in things than I was before (so is she, for that matter). I have a much better understanding of what actions to take to prevent, and head off any of this. And...if it were to happen again, I'd leave. Pretty much that simple.

 

So, many of you say that your history together, can help you predict how your SO will act? Aren't you as BS'S taking a lot on faith? If you really knew your SO'S and what they are capable of, how did you allow things to get so bad that they cheated?

 

 

I pulled this last part aside to kind of point out to you how this sounds...I understand that you're getting a lot of...flack...from a lot of BS's. Comments like this last are part of that reason.

 

Can you see how this almost sounds condescending? How it blames the BS for the situation? How it makes BS's who do try to reconcile appear to be foolish?

 

The tone that seems to come across is why you're getting a lot of the responses you are, my friend. If you want to avoid that flack, try proofreading your responses and do so looking at it from the recieving end, and it might help you change some of that precieived tone a little. Just trying to help.

[JustJoe]

Owl, I'm trying to understand this whole thing from the perspective of the OM. I'm not a BS, and don't know how or what they/you think. I don't mean to offend anybody. It's sort of like trying to speak a foreign language. If somebody, who was trying to learn English, misspoke a word or phrase, do you jump on them, call them names and bash them, or do you try to educate them? How am I supposed to know the point of view of the BS, when I don't know the point of view of the BS? Educate me, don't diss me. BTW, I mean the impersonal "you".

[JustJoe]

What I meant by the last paragraph, is if you as a BS, have a certain amount of history with your WS, and knew them pretty well, how do you let things get to this stage, where the WS feels that an affair is worth it? Is it inattention to their needs/ wants, or is it something else?

[grogster]

Well, here's how it went for me.

 

We did have that great history. Our marriage had it's ups and downs, but for the most part was WONDERFUL for about 16 years prior to when things went bad.

 

Then my wife broke her leg, lost her job, and got involved in online gaming all within about a month. Right alongside of this, triggered by these events, she started showing increasing signs of depression...big time.

 

But of course one of the common side effects of this is that you can't SEE the depression you're in because you're in it. (kinda like that 'fog' we talk about here so often)

 

She refused to see the doctor, refused to make changes...all the while, during this time our marriage got worse and worse as a result. As much as I fought and tried to do whatever I could to fix things, there was little I could do...because the majority of the 'issues' were really all to do with HER, and outside of my control.

 

It wasn't until the affair, and then finally d-day that it made the need for her to make changes so obvious that she HAD to do it, or had to leave.

 

What led to her affair was a series of things. Am I 'taking a risk' that it could happen again...well, yes and no. Yep, things could go bad again. They could also go bad even if I were with someone else. But, I'm also a lot more educated in things than I was before (so is she, for that matter). I have a much better understanding of what actions to take to prevent, and head off any of this. And...if it were to happen again, I'd leave. Pretty much that simple.

 

 

 

 

I pulled this last part aside to kind of point out to you how this sounds...I understand that you're getting a lot of...flack...from a lot of BS's. Comments like this last are part of that reason.

 

Can you see how this almost sounds condescending? How it blames the BS for the situation? How it makes BS's who do try to reconcile appear to be foolish?

 

The tone that seems to come across is why you're getting a lot of the responses you are, my friend. If you want to avoid that flack, try proofreading your responses and do so looking at it from the recieving end, and it might help you change some of that precieived tone a little. Just trying to help.

 

Great post, Owl.

 

There's something about message board posting that leads some posters to be so sure, absolute and categorical about life. Fortunately, life, as lived as opposed to posted, is deeper, richer and more nuanced than message board pronouncements.

 

Some folks have pet notions or preconceptions, which they wrongly value over experience. When others post that their life experiences disprove the poster's prize opinions, some get huffy and defensive.

 

To learn, we must allow life experience to test even our most closely held convictions. Otherwise, we're simply ostrich-like dogmatists.

[Owl]

I am educating you, my friend.

 

And like that person who's learning a new language, I'm trying to help you understand the culture and show you where you're offending those people you're trying to understand.

 

I've never been the OP.

 

But it doesn't take a degree in astro-physics for me to know that if I phrase things in a condescending tone about a group of people when I'm posting to them, it's most likely going to result in a LACK of understanding all the way around.

 

I've never been the OP...but it was easy enough for me to step back, and try to look at it from his viewpoint during the affair I had to deal with. Heck, I know he ended up hurting as much as anyone else did.

 

And when I post on the OW/OM forum, I try to address the topic at hand in a way that communicates my thoughts without putting everyone on the defensive.

[Owl]

What I meant by the last paragraph, is if you as a BS, have a certain amount of history with your WS, and knew them pretty well, how do you let things get to this stage, where the WS feels that an affair is worth it? Is it inattention to their needs/ wants, or is it something else?

 

Look at what I wrote in my own situation...

 

I did everything I could to try to help get the situation back on track.

 

But the issues lied within her...and she refused to acknowledge them or do anything about them. She also didn't have any kind of undrstanding of 'boundaries' to protect a marriage, nor would she take any real action to implement them, since she didn't see a need for them.

 

UNTIL it all came to a head because of her affair.

 

I couldn't do ANYTHING to fix the situation until she hit rock bottom and recognized that she needed to change.

 

Again, it sounds like you blame the situation on the BS...but often what's lacking with the marriage is lacking within the WS to begin with.

 

It was in my wife's case, for sure.

 

It wasn't something that I could address...it was something that SHE needed to address, but wouldn't even consider doing so until it got to the point where she HAD NO CHOICE.

 

It's not always a matter of the BS "letting" anything happen. How does the BS force a change if communication is shut down and they're not aware of the situation, or if the changes required are completely out of their control?

[seren]

In my M, I became very successful professionally, suddenly had to work late, travel, a lot - H was very proud of my success but felt left behind. H had to live away from home during the week, he had a new posting (military) and was finding the new job and promotion stressful. H came back from Iraq a very different man, I asked and asked what was wrong, he said nothing, I gave up trying to fix things when I should have noticed something wasn't right. he was an absolute ars* and in 12 months changed from my lovely H to a complete stranger.

 

Sorry, but the OW could have been anyone the speed in which he ended it and the way he so easily cut OW out of his life was cruel (IMO) and nothing like my H.

I am sure that some A's are for love, but IME most leave their marriages very quickly, I am equally sure that others are a distraction from everyday life, when the two lives collide the true status of the A is revealed and everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet and so have a choice.

 

I own the mistakes in my marriage, I sure as hell don't own anything to do with the A.

[JustJoe]

OK, enough is enough. I have repeatedly attempted to keep this thread on topic. I have constantly said that I have no opinion, and am willing to discuss any ideas, about the subject of this thread, that the posters are interested in. I was just throwing out ideas, NOT MY PERSONAL BELIEFS. I WAS flippant in the title and opening post, I have admitted it constantly. I have apologized profusely. I even Pm'd Tony and changed the offending phrases, to show that I understand the BS'S objections. What more can I do? I have been demonized, disrespected and insulted in return. Perhaps those posters, should practice a little understanding, themselves. To all posters, who have tried to post about the subject, I thank you, very much.........

[JustJoe]

Thank you , Owl. That is what I thought. I was asking that question, to find out if BS'S feel that they did enough, before the affair, to correct the marital problems. My take on it is about the same. That the WS has the same responsibilities, to correct marital problems, but seems to lack the desire or will to do so.

[reboot]

What I meant by the last paragraph, is if you as a BS, have a certain amount of history with your WS, and knew them pretty well, how do you let things get to this stage, where the WS feels that an affair is worth it? Is it inattention to their needs/ wants, or is it something else?

 

Common scenario. And you could reverse Mom and Dad here, although the story would play out a little differently, it happens the other way too.

 

Man and woman fall in love. Get married. Are blissfully happy. Have a couple of kids. Husband works hard, long hours, trying to improve their station in life. Kids get older. Get into activities. Dad gets very involved. Coaches kid's sports teams. Devotes himself to his kids. Still working hard, long hours. No time for date night. No time for long walks. No time for conversations.

 

Eventually....

 

Mom gets lonely.

 

Dad doesn't notice.

 

Mom gets very lonely.

 

Dad still doesn't notice.

 

Mom tries to get attention.

 

Dad doesn't pay attention.

 

Then someone else does.......

[reboot]

Thank you , Owl. That is what I thought. I was asking that question, to find out if BS'S feel that they did enough, before the affair, to correct the marital problems. My take on it is about the same. That the WS has the same responsibilities, to correct marital problems, but seems to lack the desire or will to do so.

 

And my point above is that the BS often not only doesn't do enough to correct the problems, they often don't even notice there IS a problem. Now that's not carte blanche for a WS to have an affair, but it does explain some of their vulnerability.

[JustJoe]

I have asked Tony to close this thread.

[Snowflower]

Common scenario. And you could reverse Mom and Dad here, although the story would play out a little differently, it happens the other way too. .

 

Yes it does play out a little differently the other way 'round...

 

 

Man and woman fall in love. Get married. Are blissfully happy. Have a couple of kids. Husband works hard, long hours, trying to improve their station in life. Kids get older. Get into activities. Dad gets very involved. Coaches kid's sports teams. Devotes himself to his kids. Still working hard, long hours. No time for date night. No time for long walks. No time for conversations.

 

Eventually....

 

Mom gets lonely.

 

Dad doesn't notice.

 

Mom gets very lonely.

 

Dad still doesn't notice.

 

Mom tries to get attention.

 

Dad doesn't pay attention.

 

Then someone else does.......

 

I can empathize with what you wrote here, reboot. Let me add my version from the other way around...

 

Get married young and have kids right away. Both spouses work hard to improve stations in life while trying to raise happy, well-adjusted kids. Kids are the focus...isn't that what good parents always do, right? Besides, your spouse is always there for you and you'll have time for your spouse when the kids are older and don't need you so much, right?

 

Then eventually,

 

Kids DO get older...mom starts concentrating on her career.

 

Dad gets tired of being 3rd (or 4th) in line in priorities after kids, job, house.

 

Mom keeps doing more of what she has always done for her family, job, etc.

 

Dad speaks up...feels something is wrong. Begins to distract himself more and more with job, hobbies, friends.

 

Mom doesn't pay attention to his distraction, keeps on working as she always does...

 

Someone else pays attention to him...

 

 

 

And my point above is that the BS often not only doesn't do enough to correct the problems, they often don't even notice there IS a problem. Now that's not carte blanche for a WS to have an affair, but it does explain some of their vulnerability.

 

Preaching to the choir!

[reboot]

I have asked Tony to close this thread.

 

For goodness sakes why? It's gotten really interesting. It's just the internet Joe, don't be so thin skinned. It's all cool.

[reboot]

 

Get married young and have kids right away. Both spouses work hard to improve stations in life while trying to raise happy, well-adjusted kids. Kids are the focus...isn't that what good parents always do, right? Besides, your spouse is always there for you and you'll have time for your spouse when the kids are older and don't need you so much, right?

 

Then eventually,

 

Kids DO get older...mom starts concentrating on her career.

 

Dad gets tired of being 3rd (or 4th) in line in priorities after kids, job, house.

 

Mom keeps doing more of what she has always done for her family, job, etc.

 

Dad speaks up...feels something is wrong. Begins to distract himself more and more with job, hobbies, friends.

 

Mom doesn't pay attention to his distraction, keeps on working as she always does...

 

Someone else pays attention to him...

 

Exactly. Thank you for finishing my thought.