emotional/verbal/mental abuse

[Weird]

Who here has dealt with that in a relationship?

 

I ask because there is this woman I know that I have a long drawn out history with and she recently was in a 2 year deal where the guy abused her. We have a romantic past and after years after that of trivial type contact/attempts at "friendship" and me telling her a little over a year ago to get out of my life for good (when I found out she was in a relationship after she kept it a "secret" for over 2 months) she contacted me after dumping this guy earlier this year and I basically laid things out and said either we try things out again or we are done, no platonic interest on my part. I expected her to say she was not interested but she says she is and says she knows I am an amazing guy and all that nice jazz.

 

Here is the thing...when I said this I had NO CLUE that her prev relationship was toxic and it wasn't until after I laid out my feelings she opened up about it all and that she is pretty messed up from the abuse she suffered especially since she made some silly decisions for the guy/relationship. She initially implied she was going to just go with the flow (this was about a month ago) right away but not long after she said she realized she has more issues to work on (says she has no self esteem at all right now) than she thought and doesn't want to drag me down with them. She still implies she wants to try things out when she is back to herself.

 

My question is to those who have dealt with this type of abuse how long did it take you to feel generally well and being ready to open your heart again/be with someone else? It's been 4 months for her and I think she regressed a bit the last 2 weeks because she had some contact with the guy and he said some more crap to her and she is just really angry at the whole situation.

 

The thing that sucks is I have known her for over half her life and we shared some "special" firsts in our relationship and she knows I would never screw her over but at the same time it seems she can't have me/what may be between us trump that guy and that bad relationship and seems to be worried about being screwed over again.

 

My problem is I just don't really "get it" in the sense I have never been abused so I don't know how it affects someone so at times I sort of take this personally. I just think she has this guy she knows cares for her, never did anything bad to her and has the good history with (I believe I'm the only decent guy she has ever dated) so why doesn't that make things better and why doesn't the potential great future with me trump the toxic crap she went through. I have made so many compliments to her and said so many nice things but her reaction is one of indifference/doubt because she doesn't see herself that way right now.

 

She even implied that had her deal with that other guy been normal but they broke up she'd be "fine" by now but because of how it went down she has these issues. I just do not get it but again, it is because I have not dealt with it.

 

Any advice/info would be appreciated.

[Ronni_W]

She is right that she needs to do her healing from the inside.

Just getting into a new relationship -- no matter how high its potential for "good and positive" -- will not allow her to grow her own esteem, confidence, awareness, strength, ability to trust, etc.

 

From her (wounded psyche's) perspective, what you're offering is like a band-aid for a broken spine. On a psychological-emotional level, if you were to leave or die, she'd be right back where she is now -- without esteem, confidence, etc., etc.

She needs to become her own saviour and sage; she cannot become dependent on you (or anyone else) to be that for her.

 

I do understand your confusion. But if you make it any more about you, or continue to wonder why you're not being seen as "the solution"...then you're heading for the realms of narcissism

Seriously though, I would suggest perhaps learning a bit more about the psychology of being abused/staying in an abusive relationship. Your understanding will allow you to be a more effective and useful friend and support...and you won't end up feeling inadequate or putting unnecessary pressure on her.

 

I searched at amazon, and there are a few books that look promising. But a trip to the library may be best. One with good reviews is, 'It's My Life Now: Starting Over After An Abusive Relationship'. I'm not sure how much it goes into the psychology but you might want to get it with the intention of gifting it to her when you're done reading.

 

In any event, I would encourage you to find ways, and to ask her how you can help her on the recovery path that SHE has chosen for herself. Trust her that she knows, subconsciously and consciously, what's best for her at this point.

 

In the meantime, work on your own patience It will be worth the wait, if your 'prize' will be a woman with high self-esteem and confidence in her own ability and capacity to take care of herself. She is not that yet. She knows it, and you're being called upon to accept what she knows about herself.

 

Best of luck.

[carhill]

Any advice/info would be appreciated.

 

Sure. Sounds like you have long history together. If, and I underscore 'if', what she's telling you is true, then it, combined with how she's behaved in your past and present relationship, denotes a need for consistent and solo 'work on self', including counseling. During that time, you or other men are reminders of the 'old ways' and a negative influence, regardless of your intentions and feelings for her. This is something she needs to do on her own, for herself.

 

So, if you really think she's 'the one' and you don't want to be with anyone else, wish her well and tell her you'll be waiting on the other side.

 

To be perfectly honest, and I've lived with this dynamic for a number of decades in my life, with various women, I would never date nor become emotionally attached to a woman with issues and behaviors such as you've described. I've loved two and married one. I can only touch upon the incompatibilities which come to light when one is in a relationship with someone like this. The parallels were, in retrospect, remarkable, and remarkably unhealthy.

 

You can make your own choice. I have. Letting go was part of acceptance.

[Ilovecake]

First of all sounds like you fell exactly into the trap you did not want to be in, which is a platonic friendship and if she is still in contact with her ex then you are there as a backup. If she’s talking to this guy it means she’s trying to get back together with him and is asking you to wait around to see if that will pan out for her or not. How long it will take her to get her stuff together is up to her and how badly she wants to get her situation figured out.

 

It sounds like she doesn’t really have very strong romantic feelings for you but feels she should settle for you because you’re a safe bet, you’re a nice guy and she knows that she should be with a nice guy, doesn’t mean she wants to be.

 

I’ve been in that situation where I wasn’t really into someone but I knew he would be good for me because he’s a nice guy and strokes my ego and worships the ground I walk on. I ended up resenting the person at the end.

 

There are all different levels of emotional abuse. I think everyone is capable of some sort of abusive behavior in their relationships. I mean when you fight with someone and things get heated and you say things you don’t really mean but you say them to hurt the person that is a form of emotional abuse, yet we’ve all done this at one time or another. So really you have to take into consideration what type of abuse she’s talking about, how strongly does she want to get over this and how hard she will work at getting this guy out of her life.

 

I don't think it's a good idea to get involved with someone who has no idea what they want.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Ilovecake

[witabix]

.....................

 

So, if you really think she's 'the one' and you don't want to be with anyone else, wish her well and tell her you'll be waiting on the other side.

 

................I can only touch upon the incompatibilities which come to light when one is in a relationship with someone like this. The parallels were, in retrospect, remarkable, and remarkably unhealthy.

 

You can make your own choice. I have. Letting go was part of acceptance.

 

...............

 

I don't think it's a good idea to get involved with someone who has no idea what they want.

 

I back these posts. My experience to a much lesser extent is similar to Carhill's. It is awful when bad stuff happens to someone and it echoes down through the years. Their unhealthiness can and does infect the current relationship.

 

Having said that the situation can be an uncomfortable dilemma. On the one hand you want to help and be there, on the other no one made you responsible for the state of someone else's psyche and your purpose is not to mend other people but to care for yourself.

 

As lovecake says, it's not a good idea, but who is to say its a bad idea? It depends on several things such as, the strength of your feeling for the other, what you are prepared or can actually take to be there while they go through all the 'confusion' they claim to be in. It gets painful, and the pain increases as time goes by. I never got to the point where it was done. Too much suffering dealt out in too short a time. Like holding a red hot poker at the wrong end. Eventually you have to let go or suffer permanent damage yourself.

[carhill]

Also, in the spirit of raising the mirror, I won't get married again without PMC. I've had enough negative relationship experiences and see their effect on myself to understand the value of psychological counseling, having had MC. I'll re-visit that dynamic in my next relationship, if there is one. So far, casual dating hasn't raised any red flags, but I'm watchful.

 

I hope the OP's 'friend' achieves the introspection she apparently seeks.

[witabix]

Also, in the spirit of raising the mirror, I won't get married again without PMC. I've had enough negative relationship experiences and see their effect on myself to understand the value of psychological counseling, having had MC. I'll re-visit that dynamic in my next relationship, if there is one. So far, casual dating hasn't raised any red flags, but I'm watchful.

 

I hope the OP's 'friend' achieves the introspection she apparently seeks.

 

Thats the key really isn't it? Its always an external force that is blamed for the current problems. It is the baggage they carry into the new relationship. Abusive exes, that they still 'want to be friends with' and the like.

 

To add to your hope, I would say I hope the OP has enough clear sight to see if this is happening or not. And enough strength to do the right thing in either circumstance.

[carhill]

BTW, witabix, glad to see you posting again

 

IME, it's very difficult to remain distantly supportive and lightly engaged when a person sincerely loves someone. Perhaps better people than myself can do it. I tried it for a generation and failed. I tried it as a husband and failed. Hopefully, others can succeed where I failed. With each day comes new opportunity

[Weird]

Ronni, carhill

 

Thanks for the advice, I truly appreciate it.

 

I think my problem right now is the thought she may be stringing me along and I honestly do feel guilty over that because I know I should trust her word/intentions. I do love this woman more than anything and just want to give her the world so it sucks having some doubt that what she has told me is indeed sincere and thinking maybe she is wanting me there as someone to support her and once she is back to her old self she'll say "not interested" and possibly get involved with another jackass like this last guy...at the same time though I realize I do need to look out for myself because I do not deserve to get screwed over when all I am wanting to do is give someone who to me is the most amazing woman, love and happiness.

 

One thing I do realize and am fine with is that *if* I do indeed get screwed over and she was just using me as an emotional crutch that I will realize once and for all she is not who I thought she was and that someone like that does not deserve to be with me because if she did that then she'd basically have been abusing me. I will say that given what she went through I'd think logically she would not string someone along (especially someone like me whom she has known for 14 years) so I tend to think she would be sincere....but sadly humans can let you down so who knows for sure.

 

Another thing is that when we started talking again she made no mention of her situation and it wasn't until I expressed my romantic interest did she open up about her relationship...this to me seems odd. I wonder if is it her just trusting me a bit to really open up and this is her trying to be closer to me at this time or is she just "using" my feelings/interest as a way to vent and thereby ignoring how I may feel about it? Again, the fact things aren't "normal" makes it hard to figure out because normally a person wouldn't just be venting about their horrible ex to someone they know wants to date them since it can be off-putting. I just try and flip the scenario and if that were me out of the abusive relationship and she opened up her heart to me I'd probably try and not vent to her about things since I'd know it would be painful for her to hear about how I spent 2 years with some woman who treated me like crap and messed me up. Then again, she is not really contacting me these days so maybe that is exactly what is going on as she realizes that.

 

We were together 7-9 years ago and she was 20-22 at the time. Part of the reason we broke up (other than our immaturity since I was 22-24 at the time) I think was she had the grass is greener syndrome (she just finished university) and wanted to "live life while young", meaning do immature crap you can regret doing in 2-3 years (which incidentally she did and regretted 2 years later. ) and even though I don't really hold that over her it is something I am a bit cautious about. Since then even though she knew I had no desire to be in contact with her if she was dating anyone (I'm not into exes being friends, especially when one or both are involved with others) she still contacted me when she was apparently in another relationship sometime after me (never once mentioned it) and then with this recent guy....so I see this and just have a bit of caution of if she truly has "seen the light" with me realizing she had a great guy/thing with me or if it is just her being selfish (she's acted selfishly before with me and has realized it) and wanting me there since she knows I'll be saying nice things to her and doing everything I can to make her feel good and then once she is back to normal she'll go and pursue some new guy.

 

I have tended to take the whole deal with us over the years as a sign it is fate we will be together but then I think maybe I'm just being an idiot blinded by my true love for her and she has simply played me for a sucker over all these years since she knows I care about her. Now I haven't been waiting for her for 7 years (though my love for her never really left) but over the last few I have simply figured out she is "the one" for me and have just hoped that we would have another shot. I see her saying she has an interest and other stuff about me and think maybe she thinks that way with me now but then I wonder if maybe she doesn't and I am just a nice convenience to have right now to talk to.

 

I also just don't get how she could have got involved and stayed with such a loser like that guy, planning this future with him and not see she deserved better. I again go back to things between us and think she KNEW she had better and she was loved without continually being put down or ignored so why stay with someone who isn't giving her that level? It isn't like she doesn't have much to offer either in the sense she should feel the need to jump at anyone who may show interest. Nope, she offers a pretty complete package. I guess maybe the answer to this lies in what she is dealing with now and it is more about something within her that I am not aware of. She always came off over the years since me as having a good level of confidence and seemed to be independent (with me she didn't come off as being clingy/dependent either) but maybe she wasn't.

 

Given that she has clearly thought about me over the years and thought about me while with this guy (her contacting me out of the blue, wanting to hang out with me a year into her relationship, her keeping my "tell off" email over the last year) I just wonder why didn't she just cut things off with him..I then wonder had I mentioned my feelings/intentions 2.5 years ago would she have been receptive to it then as she (supposedly) is now? I feel guilty there thinking maybe had I not been so worried of being told I was nuts then that maybe I could have got her to avoid this. Then I think maybe this is just the way it was meant to be, back then she wouldn't have the same view she does now and she needed to be with a guy like that to truly fix herself (if there has been an underlying issue i am unaware of) and also to "see"/appreciate me and what I can offer and *if* we get back together this is the path it had to go down for it to last.

 

The whole situation just sucks to me and I know I need to be patient and I know I just have to go with the flow but that doesn't make it any easier as all I want to do is give her the most love and happiness possible since it has been a 2-3 year build up for me. Make no mistake, I am not simply trying to make it be about me me me...I feel so bad that she went through the crap she did with that guy and I feel bad she has the issues she does now and if I could I'd easily transfer them from her to me so she could be back to her old self. It's just hard when you see someone you know is so amazing and love so much having to deal with issues like this.

 

As it stands right now I have told her that I think it is best she controls our communication and that I am there for support as I think this is the only way I can prevent myself from possibly pressing which I do not want to do. One problem is that in our convos since she gave me deets of her situation she will tell me something and I will reply and then there is silence on her end and I feel guilty thinking I am supposed to say something magical and am letting her down but I realize there isn't much I can say so I basically can only offer my help by listening....it's just a bit awkward. I have recently figured out that when women vent they usually just want a guy to listen rather than offer advice/solutions (which goes against the mindset of men since we want to fix things) so I am trying to take that into account.

[Weird]

ilovecake,

 

She is not in contact in the sense of talking things through. She deleted him from various e-ways (IM, facebook), has ignored his calls and it was only by chance she talked to him recently on the phone. He also came up to her twice at the gym and criticized her workout routine. Apparently he tried to say by him calling he was opening up the lines to reconcile and she said if that was something that was going to happen it'd have been done before they even broke up when things were pretty much done.

 

She vented about him and says she is just angry at the situation and how it played out and wants to erase the memory of him from her mind....so I doubt she is looking to get back with him.

 

I got examples of some of the crap he did and it was more than simply arguing and saying something you didn't mean. The guy simply didn't give a crap about her or her feelings. He's also spread lies about her where they are and it could possibly impact things for her on a semi professional basis.

 

She is also in therapy over all this and every friend and family member has pretty much gone off on how much a douche this guy turned out to be.

 

If by some chance after all that she would want to get back with him then hey, her problem and it would mean she is crazy.

 

I am not going to press things with her and just go about my daily life and see what happens and am taking the stance of limited contact which I think can both get her to figure out/heal her issues and keeps me at a distance in the sense if it blows up in my face it wasn't like I was really invested from a time/attachment level. This is something that clearly is on my mind now but it could easily be worse if I was offering her my support via contact on a daily basis. Basically she knows my stance and if she likes that then cool, if not then oh well.

 

With all the years of "nothing" between us it isn't like I haven't become used to that so if nothing comes of this then oh well, it's no different than the last 7 years and I have managed just fine in that time and a year ago I thought I'd never hear from her ever again. Believe me, if I see for sure I am being strung along then I am DONE with her for good and it'll be her gigantic loss if that happens.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Weird

[carhill]

OP, your parents still alive? Got a dog or a cat? A hobby you're passionate about?

 

Tell me the last time she expressed a proactive interest in or caring about any of the above and how that went.

 

When I read your very heartfelt and excellent prose, I can't help but be reminded of myself and how much thought and emotion I plunged into the abyss of emotional vampires.

 

Try my little test, do it honestly and dispassionately, and see what you come up with. I have a wonderful little permutation of that test I use. When someone asks me how my terminally ill mother is doing, I note it. When someone asks me how I'm coping and shows empathy, I value it. Emotional vampires, IME, rarely/never do (show proactive interest/caring/empathy). That's how I knew it was time for stbx (and others, both 'family' and 'friends') to go. Black hole. Bye-bye

Edited May 14, 2010 by carhill

[Ronni_W]

I think my problem right now is the thought she may be stringing me along ... I do love this woman more than anything and just want to give her the world so it sucks having some doubt that what she has told me is indeed sincere

She might be being TOTALLY honest and sincere with you...to the very best of her current awareness, self-knowledge and ability.

 

If you were to think in terms of her being in a thick and deep "mental-emotional fog" right now, you'll have a better idea of what you're dealing with. There are SOME mental-emotional faculties not operating at her 'normal' highest level. [so] You would be doing both yourself and the lady a giant disservice wanting or expecting to get her highest 'normal' levels of honesty, sincerity, trust, etc. Her abilities to give and receive in a 'normal' relationship are severely impaired. Think of it like that.

 

I do love this woman more than anything and just want to give her the world

STOP. BACK-UP. Back way, way, WAY up! You are setting-up yourself for huge trauma. It will be your own fault. You're also setting things up to become a huge emotional-mental burden on her.

 

She does not need you to "love her more than anything" or to "give her the world". Nor does she need the desperation and neediness that underlies your desire. "Love" that is expressed the way you did it there is smothering and draining and depleting. It is not "love"; it, you, will suck the life and soul out of her -- out of anybody -- if you stick with that.

 

 

Here's a different thought: Individual counseling for yourself, to explore any "wanna be a knight in shining armour / wanna be somebody's saviour" tendencies that are lurking within. At least do some reading, just to ensure that you're not already or going to get caught up in that.

 

Another thing is that when we started talking again she made no mention of her situation and it wasn't until I expressed my romantic interest did she open up about her relationship

That was absolutely fair and appropriate behaviour on her part. It was not your business until you revealed your romantic interest, at which point she acted with truth and integrity. Give her gratitude, appreciation and respect.

 

I also just don't get how she could have got involved and stayed with such a loser like that guy, planning this future with him and not see she deserved better.

First, none of your business -- not now, not ever.

Second, she does not need your judgments of herself, her decisions and choices, her life experiences or her former lovers.

Third, you do not know what she does or does not deserve, nor do you have the authority to decide it for her. She comes with her own 'Grand Plan', her own soul purpose, life lessons and karma. To think that, or act as if you know anything about that is both ignorant and arrogant. And I say that in as kind a way as that can be said.

 

 

At the end of it all, quite honestly, it does not sound as if she can give you what you want and need right now...nor can you be what she wants and needs right now.

Proceed with caution, is my best and most heartfelt recommendation. I honestly do wish you both much luck, and happiness down the road.

[Ilovecake]

I also just don't get how she could have got involved and stayed with such a loser like that guy, planning this future with him and not see she deserved better. I again go back to things between us and think she KNEW she had better and she was loved without continually being put down or ignored so why stay with someone who isn't giving her that level?

 

He was a challenge, you are not. I'm not saying this is right at all but to some people having someone who's conveniently there, waiting in the wings, willing to do anything for them is a turnoff. Whether positive or negative a guy like her ex is creating a sort of passion and excitement in the relationship by being a jerk one moment and then loving the next. Like the post above said your love is very smothering and obsessive. You really should look into taking care of some of your own issues via counseling before attempting to help someone else who is damaged.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Ilovecake

[Weird]

carhill,

 

When we got back in touch earlier this year she didn't seem to ask me about anything going on but when I shared my feelings among other stuff I did bring that up and since then she asks how I am doing and about my folks. In the years before this she would show some interest. I do hear what you're saying though and believe me, I am aware of it.

 

 

Ronni,

 

yeah, that is one thing I have been thinking about...maybe she thinks that way (ie has an interest) in her current state and it may change. It is one reason why I am cautious and can't just have total faith in what she is saying.

 

No huge trauma being set up on my end. My mindset is I expect nothing to come of this...as for emotional burden on her, I have not said to her what I said there.

 

I guess the wording wasn't the greatest. All I was saying is that she means so much to me and I just want to show her that within a relationship which I don't see is any different than any relationship or marriage....and by showing I don't mean smothering her with acts. I think it is fair to say that people who are with their long term partners love them more than anything and want to "give them the world" which to me means caring for them, respecting them and just being there for them so how would it be different for me? Also as stated, I have had nothing with her for 7 years so it isn't like I am expecting anything magical to happen and am fine if nothing comes of this just like I have been fine over the years. Will it be a bit of a bummer if things aren't meant to be? Yeah in a way but I'll know that it well, wasn't meant to be and be at peace with that.

 

I do agree I would like to be the "knight in shining armour" with this situation simply so she doesn't have to feel like crap but I know I can't, am not trying to and I don't think it is bad to think that way either. If I was going through some crap and someone wished they could fix it for me then I'd be appreciative of it.

 

Yeah, I think you are correct especially since I didn't ask about details about her relationship before I shared my feelings...it just came off weird to me because before then she'd talk to me about general things going on and since then this is all she really talks about now.

 

I know it is not my business and I am not really trying to judge her but it still sucks because why would anyone want to see someone they care for get hurt and get screwed over? It's ridiculous to think otherwise. Make no mistake, I am NOT going to judge her on this in the sense of saying "what were you thinking?" or hold it against her. What's done is done but it STILL depresses me because I don't like someone I care about thinking they are worthless because of some guy they were with brainwashing them and it makes me wonder why it happened just like if I had a kid and he went and raped and killed 25 children I'd wonder why he did that. I fail to see how you could think this is a negative.

 

I do know what she does not deserve and that is being emotionally abused by a guy for 2 years as I don't think ANYONE deserves to be treated like crap just like nobody deserves to have say their child kidnapped and murdered but it happens. Although, you bring up a good point and it is what I touched on which is maybe she needed this as a life lesson or to strengthen herself.

 

I do believe I get what your whole point is to me about all this but at the same time it seems like you don't think people should have any care/concern at all things involving others who may be meaningful to them. It seems to you you have the view that whatever people do or what happens to them is cool and nobody should care about it at all because it is just part of their path. I get this but it still doesn't change the fact others can have feelings/thoughts regarding things because that is a big part of how people function in a society.

[Weird]

He was a challenge, you are not. I'm not saying this is right at all but to some people having someone who's conveniently there, waiting in the wings, willing to do anything for them is a turnoff. Whether positive or negative a guy like her ex is creating a sort of passion and excitement in the relationship by being a jerk one moment and then loving the next. Like the post above said your love is very smothering and obsessive. You really should look into taking care of some of your own issues via counseling before attempting to help someone else who is damaged.

 

How is my love smothering and obsessive? I do not recall saying in my posts I ever smothered her in any way and it is just an assumption being made here. Hmm, maybe you smother someone when you are with them and don't criticize them, don't make them feel like crap and just try and help them be happy and offer your support. I guess that is smothering which means most relationships both romantic and parent/child are smothering.

 

You people make it sound like I have an alter of her in my room and worship it. You have to realize I have a past with this person and have known her for almost half my life and never had anything against her the person (her qualities) then and do not now. I didn't meet her 3 months ago and think this way. I truly fell in love with her then and true love doesn't simply die with time...infatuation does. NOTHING about this means I smother her or anything of that sort. Over all these years SHE was who contacted me not the other way around and not until this time have I ever expressed any feelings to her so it isn't like she has had that to "use" for years nor have I over the years just been at her beck and call. I have not been sitting around waiting for her to "come back" and I have been fine when we were not in contact over the years and if nothing comes of this and we never talk again then I'm fine with that as well. Do I want something to come of it? Of course but I'm fine if it doesn't....and if something does come of it and we do try things out again I'm not going to be smothering her and all that crap.

 

It's remarkable how one comment can be taken so out of context.

 

Given that she wants to erase the guy from her memory and said they were fighting almost daily for the final 6 months and she was told by many she was becoming a nasty person it sure sounds like she wasn't all that into things with him. She said at the start he was sweet, caring and did so much for her then he changed...sounds like he wasn't the "challenge" you imply and again she DUMPED him because of the abuse not the other way around.

 

Even if she SOMEHOW saw this as a "challenge" and it is why she stuck with him rather than get out and now (possibly) be scarred for life, it sure didn't matter in the end did it considering SHE dumped him and is now in therapy over things.

 

There is some other info I left out which I think could help explain why she stuck with him but it still boggles me how it would trump not having to feel like crap.

 

Sorry but the challenge thing just sounds like something for teenagers and is a massive generalization that every female wants to be treated like crap.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Weird

[Ilovecake]

How is my love smothering and obsessive? I do not recall saying in my posts I ever smothered her in any way and it is just an assumption being made here.

 

My post was not based on one comment, I read everything you wrote. It's the way you express your feelings. It's the length of your posts, the detail you put into what you’re saying, your total devotion to her, your use of extremely strong statements like fate, true love, the one, give her the most love and happiness possible since it has been a 2-3 year build up for me, transferring her pain onto you (yikes), I do love this woman more than anything and just want to give her the world (again yikes) . It’s how you’re so adamant that you are the perfect guy for her, it’s how you worshipfully describe her, it’s how consumed you are with her, it’s the length of time you’ve been feeling like this about her, it's how willing you are after all these years to pick up the pieces for her the second she breaks up with her boyfriend.

 

Sorry but the challenge thing just sounds like something for teenagers and is a massive generalization that every female wants to be treated like crap.

 

First of all I’m 39 not a teenager, secondly I never said every woman so it’s not a generalization I said some people. I didn't say this only applies to women either because it also applies to some men. When I say challenge I don't mean his abuse is challenging to her, it's more his indifference. For someone who has just ended a pretty difficult relationship it's an whole lot of responsibility to get involved with someone who places that much significance on you. I doubt she has the strength right now to jump into something as serious as what you're expecting. You seem to think you guys were destined to be together, which is a romantic notion. Nobody is predestined to be with anyone you create your own destiny. The fact that you guys can’t start things casually because of your deep feelings and your long history can be overwhelming. Don’t get mad because you’re hearing the truth and not what you want to hear. I don’t know you and I feel overwhelmed just reading your posts.

[Weird]

Fair enough.

 

I think maybe there is a disconnect between how I am expressing myself and what I think. I see what you say and think I come off as sounding like I worship her and have that altar but in reality I do not. I don't think I am consumed with her and don't think anyone could know that based off a forum but hey, that's my fault since I am the one relaying the info. As for length of posts and detail, I do that with everything because it makes sense to me to go into detail when communicating via text.

 

I disagree with some of what you said (simply because I know how I feel and have more of the info/details) BUT I do see where you are coming from and do appreciate it and will take some of it to heart.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Weird

[Ronni_W]

It seems to you you have the view that whatever people do or what happens to them is cool and nobody should care about it at all

There is a world of a difference between empathy and compassion, and sticking one's nose where it don't belong.

 

She made her own ADULT decisions about being and staying in that relationship, for whatever reasons. None of it is anybody else's business. As a friend, you would of course wish only good stuff for her, and you would offer her the kind of support that SHE wants, when SHE asks for it. That is genuine empathy and compassion. What, when and how SHE wants, needs and chooses.

 

it seems like you don't think people should have any care/concern at all things involving others who may be meaningful to them.

See above. Just because they are meaningful to you does NOT mean you are entitled to know, judge or have a say about every single piece of their personal information or private affairs...only that which THEY decide to share with you and that on which THEY specifically ask for your input.

 

Wanting to be involved in "ALL THINGS" about people you care about is indicative of control issues. Using your "care/concern" to backdoor your way into a position from which you can control does not mitigate -- that kind of care/concern creates the space in which the "smothering love", which Ilovecake is helping you with, flourishes.

 

It's all good news for you. You will end up being a wonderful support for this woman you love, and hopefully that will lead to a lifetime of happiness and fulfillment for BOTH of you

[cgm]

Im dealing with this right now, actually. I can tell you what I've learned from being in an emotionally abusive relationship, and I dont know how much sense it will make because well, Im not in a very good emotional state at the moment, so, sorry for any confusion...

 

They trap you, they make you scared to say the wrong thing to them because you fear every second of every day that they're not happy with you, because they dont show it. ETC. ETC.

 

This relationship, that I am still trapped inside, has ruined everything I ever thought love could be. Or I could be. It has ruined my self-esteem, it has crushed my hope, it has made my entire outlook on life turn into hell. I have nothing to live for I feel like, except for him, the abuser. I know this too, is the sad part, I KNOW what this is, I know I need to get out, but once you're trapped in this, you don't even know who you are anymore. I have lost myself, my hope, my future, my friends, my courage, my fight, i have lost everything I worked so hard to become. I lost all of this to this, and I use the term loosely, "man". He has taken everything from me, and if I could rewind time and I never had to meet him, I would, because he makes me hate myself.

 

I feel like the world is slowly being dropped on me, very slowly, crushing me, from the inside out, all of me is oozing out, and vanishing. I have nothing because of him. I know I will never love the samebecause of him, I will never be happy the way I was because of him, there are so many aspects of my life that he has ripped away from me. and I am trapped, because still, I love him more than anything in the world, even myself, my family, my friends, he put a curse on me i think. THIS PERSON IS NOT ME. I want myself back, I miss her so much. She was an amazing person, not that I'm looking at her through someone elses eyes. He took everything from me. Everything I have ever loved, is gone, because of an emotional abuser. Except him, and he'll never leave me.

[Weird]

Just some comments to clear some things up:

 

-by me saying for the last few years I wanted to try things out again doesn't mean I have sat there waiting for it to happen or obsessed over it or simply been depressed. All that says is I realized after getting to know many other women over the years I realized this person still offered the best all around package FOR ME and if the opportunity presented itself I'd try things out with her again but if not then oh well, life goes on and am FINE with that just like I have been. To try and make myself not believe this reality would be asinine to me. ONCE AGAIN, a little over a year ago I never thought I'd hear from her ever again...if I was just sitting there obsessing then wouldn't I have pressed to keep in contact? Nope, instead I found out she was with someone else and I was fine with that and hoped she would be happy and enjoy her life. The only thing here is I wonder if I was just up front say 2.5 years ago would she have been interested in it avoiding that guy but hey, what's done is done and this is how things were meant to happen.

 

-I have not put myself in position over the years to just do everything she wants and trying to smother her. While I may have whipped out compliments to her along the way, I do that to everyone I know and care for and my compliments were not of any drastic style like "oh you are so perfect" nor are they like that now. Making someone feel good by stating their qualities and saying nice things is not bad.

 

-I do believe in true love and true love means you actually love the person and things like time or circumstance don't magically decrease that and you love the person for who they are, not what they may be to/for you. I could never talk to this woman again but I'd still have my love for her and want her to be happy. The problem is most don't have a concept of this and instead mix love with infatuation where you have the strong feelings for someone but they fade away with time or when the person is out of your life. Think of your parents or if someone has a child....do you lose that love over time or if they maybe let you down? No. There is no difference between romantic true love other than it doesn't always fit in perfectly so people think it is silly. This explains why so many relationships end because people do not have the ability to truly love someone and once they get bored or some negative characteristics show up they want to move on. Infatuation is also far easier to deal with since you simply become indifferent to the person.

 

-by saying I'd transfer her pain onto myself is just somewhat how I view things of those I care about which includes friends. I simply do not like to see people who matter me to be dealing with crap and I just tend to think I have a good threshold of dealing with negative crap. I tend to think this is a selfless trait but I can see how it could be seen as an issue in the sense I'd be willing to suffer for others so maybe it is a self-esteem issue on my end. The funny thing is I have very little empathy when it comes to humans in general but am very caring/loyal to those who matter to me in my life.

 

-saying someone is "the one" is not bad but obviously this is something some may or may not believe in. To me it is easy to know what I seek in a partner and if someone has most of those traits and has been compared to others then they are "the one" for me. Does that mean I would be the one for them? Of course not. Clearly one could say you do not know someone is the "one" with certainty but we're splitting hairs there. Using that logic nobody should ever get married/together since someone out there "could" be better suited for them though I think this is how most view their lives. However, I am perfectly open to being proven wrong and if someone more "fitting" for my ideal partner came along then I'd realize I was a naive fool to think the way I do now. As it stands though through my entire life she still fits the bill the most for the ideal partner. This is simply the way it is, not something I made up because of her and I spent many years thinking the opposite and that those who I got to know would be better (the mentality people always have that every single person they meet after an ex will be superior...it hardly ever works this way) but it simply didn't go that way.

 

-I do believe in fate but that is because I believe in God and think there is the path set for everyone. If one does not believe in that from a spiritual sense then yeah, obviously someone will probably not believe in fate. I am not saying it is fate her and I will end up together but that so many things have happened (clearly not known here as I haven't gone into minute detail) that maybe it is indeed meant to be. Maybe though all this has just been a string of coincidences or maybe it is all set up to make me see there is nothing and it has been my path to go through all the "coincidences" over the years to finally get there and without all the things happening I wouldn't have truly been at peace with that. Again, one probably has to believe in God and there being a path for each person to think this way. To each their own but I have seen enough instances with others and just in life in general to believe there is something to "fate"

 

-my saying I love her more than anything was a bit of an exaggeration used to convey she means a lot to me. I'd say my care for her is in the ballpark as it is for others in my life who matter like my folks and close friends.

 

-I am not there to "pick up the pieces" after her ex boyfriend. She contacted me to say I was correct about something I said a year earlier, I replied back then a bit later she contacted me again and all I did was talk to her in a regular way and then decided to just lay things out to save myself time/put an end to the yearly contact stuff and said I am not interested in doing the platonic thing so if that is all she wants then we're done talking for good. I fail to see how I am there to pick up the pieces since I haven't even done anything since then other than listen to her vent a bit and I'm not pouncing on her or even really contacting her. Seems a little pessimistic to think just because she broke up and I am there in her life means I am picking up the pieces or that she for sure is just viewing me in that way. What if maybe JUST MAYBE she has realized I am someone she wants to be with again now that we're older? What if over the years she has possibly thought of me in the same sort of way I have her? I guess though this is loveshack where so many just do not want to accept some people can get back together years later and not every failed relationship means the person was not ideal and many end because of outside circumstances or bad timing. I understand not getting one's hopes up and I have stated I am viewing things in a cautious way and will not be strung along if I see that is indeed what is going on. I have also stated I am fine if nothing happens and she is out of my life and really, that is the honest truth.

 

-I am not pressuring her into some relationship right now where she has to make decisions that she simply does not have the mental/emotional stability to do and if she thinks she is being pressured then that is her issue/doing, not mine. I stated right off the bat here I expressed my thoughts/feelings to her BEFORE I even knew what she went through because there were no indications she had anything but a reg style relationship end and was fine. After she got my view she initially implied she was ready to try things out right away but then said she isn't yet ready and since then I have stated to her that is fine and she take her time to get back to being herself and again, I have not pressed her or done anything of that nature since then. I wouldn't want to be involved with someone who is in her emotional state right now.

 

-I do not worship her. If I worship her then anyone who loves someone else worships them. I again chalk this up to LS pessimism where apparently you can't think highly of someone from your past and should view them as evil even if it is illogical.

 

-I go into detail because it makes the most sense and I do it everywhere though it seems in this day and age if you go into detail with things you are some freak. Given I have got comments that are a bit off base of my stance concerning her it would seem to back things up even more that going into detail is more logical. If anything, I didn't go into as much detail or I simply worded things incorrectly. It's all on me.

 

-I do not think she is perfect. She has flaws and she has made her mistakes but I do not hold all that against her since I was brought up not to hold grudges and to forgive. The thing you are then left to do is either see someone's flaws/mistakes and change your opinion of said person or simply accept them for who they are....I accept her for who she is. Yes, I do wonder why she was with that guy and opened her heart to him and stuck with being abused for so long but I am not judging her for that even if it came off that way here. You can wonder why someone does something that to you seems illogical and feel bummed out about it if the outcome is negative and not be judging them or be mad at them. Given that she seems to be mad at herself for being with that guy and wonders why she put up with it for so long I fail to see why it is wrong for me to wonder as well since I know what type of person she is and she has never come off as one who would put up with that treatment.

 

-I do not think I am the perfect guy for her though maybe I am. Only she would ultimately know this. I just know I am a good guy who would not screw her over and would care (like I did when we were together before) for her unlike others she has dated and she has said that she feels I am an amazing guy and I tend to have faith that she has wanted to keep me in her life all these years because of who I am not because she saw me as some lap dog, especially since I haven't done anything over the years that would indicate that. Given that every single year we tried the friends deal I ended the communication it would seem that there must be something about me she really likes to make her keep coming back year after year and going through the same scenario.

 

-My biggest concern with all this was simply going along with things and then once she was back to her old self she cast me aside which to me would make me think I was used as an emotional crutch. I think ANYONE would not want that to happen to them so I don't think I am wrong here. If this were to happen then I would not be traumatized and would simply see just what the reality is with her (that she is more selfish than I ever imagined) and I would be fine with that since I would have my answer of just where I stand in her mind. Chances are if her and I don't talk in the next couple weeks then I'll be back to having a ho-hum viewpoint in the sense I won't really concern myself with all this.

 

-The other thing is I just have a curiosity of how long it will take her to sort out her issues and be back to "normal" and clearly if anything is to happen between us then I'd hope for this to be sooner than later BUT I am again not pressing her and am just trying to go with the flow and I know I need to be more patient...but as stated above, if there is little to no contact over the next little while then I am sure I'll go back into that ho-hum mode and won't really care how long it takes.

 

One can think that my "love" here is smothering/obsessive but I just don't think it is since I don't see what I have done over the years that would be an indication of that. I'd think if I had that then I'd have been constantly contacting her over the years (and again I was not as she initiated it almost every single time) and saying all this stuff to her trying to "win her back" (which I never did) and I'd be furious of her dating others which I didn't really care about since it has been her life to live other than she should not have selfishly contacted me while in a relationship knowing I don't care for that (and she knew full well my viewpoint which is why she kept it hidden) as it isn't fair to the person you are dating and to the ex....which is the viewpoint that MOST people also have. I do not know of one person in real life who sees the logic in being "friends" with an ex while they are in a new relationship. If she were to say to me tomorrow she doesn't want to talk anymore then I'd say fine and be done with everything...I fail to see how that would be smothering/obsessive.

 

If truly loving another person means you are obsessed about them then I guess there are many people out there whose love is simply obsessive. More likely, those that find someone truly loving another person is smothering/obsessive have never actually truly loved someone.

[Weird]

Im dealing with this right now, actually. I can tell you what I've learned from being in an emotionally abusive relationship, and I dont know how much sense it will make because well, Im not in a very good emotional state at the moment, so, sorry for any confusion...

 

They trap you, they make you scared to say the wrong thing to them because you fear every second of every day that they're not happy with you, because they dont show it. ETC. ETC.

 

This relationship, that I am still trapped inside, has ruined everything I ever thought love could be. Or I could be. It has ruined my self-esteem, it has crushed my hope, it has made my entire outlook on life turn into hell. I have nothing to live for I feel like, except for him, the abuser. I know this too, is the sad part, I KNOW what this is, I know I need to get out, but once you're trapped in this, you don't even know who you are anymore. I have lost myself, my hope, my future, my friends, my courage, my fight, i have lost everything I worked so hard to become. I lost all of this to this, and I use the term loosely, "man". He has taken everything from me, and if I could rewind time and I never had to meet him, I would, because he makes me hate myself.

 

I feel like the world is slowly being dropped on me, very slowly, crushing me, from the inside out, all of me is oozing out, and vanishing. I have nothing because of him. I know I will never love the samebecause of him, I will never be happy the way I was because of him, there are so many aspects of my life that he has ripped away from me. and I am trapped, because still, I love him more than anything in the world, even myself, my family, my friends, he put a curse on me i think. THIS PERSON IS NOT ME. I want myself back, I miss her so much. She was an amazing person, not that I'm looking at her through someone elses eyes. He took everything from me. Everything I have ever loved, is gone, because of an emotional abuser. Except him, and he'll never leave me.

 

I am so sorry to hear this....it must be so hard to know something is so toxic but basically feel trapped.

 

If you have not gone to therapy then I would suggest you do and hopefully get your sense of worth back.

[Weird]

Oh and I just wanted to say thank you to those who have replied offering their thoughts. It has helped ease my mind with my situation to the point I may get to my "ho-hum" viewpoint sooner than later.

 

Even though I did not agree with some (though I think that was more about me trying to explain things poorly), I do value them and will take them to heart an be sure to watch myself in the future when it comes to all things her and will just make sure I do not do anything she could take as me trying to pressure her.

 

Funny how just venting to even strangers can help with things.

[Weird]

I also want to say I am not smothering her nor did I ever do that when we were together. I gave her space, she gave me mine, I wasn't clingy (nor was she) and never tried to control her or get jealous of her doing her own thing as I would not get that way for another person. As for now, I am not contacting her (and the amount of times I have initiated contact with her over the last handful of years would be MAYBE 3 times done on her birthday with the standard 1 line happy birthday message) and professing love for her and am not doing any of the things that is defined as smothering and if we got together again I wouldn't want to basically attach myself to her since that isn't healthy and would bug me since I like my alone time or time with friends. I am not asking her (nor have I ever) when she is going to be "healed" and am not demanding any answers or info from her. I may be a bit antsy/impatient hoping it is sooner than later but that is because I want her to be back to normal for her sake and because I want to be able to talk to the person I know she is inside rather than what she is right now which is a shell of herself plus in a possible selfish way I do want to know what the deal is with things concerning her one way or the other in the sense we either try things out again or I get to fully move on regarding her in the sense she is out of my life for good where if she contacted me again in the future I'd simply ignore her. Even though I hope for her to be "healed" sooner than later, I do realize she has to heal and work things out at her own pace and I am fine with that and am not giving her any pressure to do so otherwise. Furthermore, I am not expressing any impatience to her (she's even said to me how she appreciates my patience with all this) or anything of that nature and instead merely keep it inside or express it in other ways like say with this thread.

 

All I have done is express my interest in her ONCE over all these years done last month before I knew any of the details with her issues and then when she asked why/how I knew what I felt I told her why/how and when she said her self esteem was shattered and doesn't see why I would be into her I just stated the qualities she has which makes her a great person and I am sure most of her friends have done that same thing.

 

So given all that, there is simply no way anyone could say I am smothering her unless hardly talking to someone both over the years since being with them and currently, not pestering them for answers/details and giving them their space to deal with things mean you are smothering.

 

I also just read up on "knight in shining armour syndrome" and while I don't think I have that in general (I'd rather stay away from people with issues to be honest) and it isn't fully the deal with this situation, I DO feel earlier in the month I did take on some characteristics that fit in with it trying to help "fix" things (especially when I would get the silence on the phone as though I was expected to offer some grand advice/solution which is how it came off) but I caught myself doing it after and realized I just need to sit back and let her deal with things and realize it's her problem and just hope she does and that is where I stand today. The only thing I can say is that the characteristics I showed before were not of trying to be the saviour to make myself look good to her but merely out of care for someone I have known for so long just like if one of my best buddies had some issue I'd want to help them with it and likewise if I had an issue I know they'd want to try and help fix it as well. That is simply the atmosphere I have been around all my life and those I know are the same and if it isn't the norm for others in the world then hey, I don't know what to say.

 

I think there may be a fine line in the interpretation of thinking someone is concerned and wants to help because they care about you and then they are doing it because they are trying to suck you in and be your saviour and boost themselves up. Plus, as stated it is a man's mentality (it's biological...IMO) to want to problem solve so when presented with things you will naturally try and solve it even if you can't. Some can say this is bad but the theory behind it is pretty positive.

 

In no way with her did anything in a negative way come across my mind for this but I see it may have been to her and it may be to others so clearly I was ignorant to that effect up until now and I think many others (specifically other guys) are as well. Again, it comes back to how someone would feel if the roles were reversed (the whole treat others as you'd want to be treated deal) and to me I'd be receptive to someone wishing they could help fix things for me and offering advice even if they couldn't do anything about it.

 

And for those who may be on the receiving end of this (specifically women) and wondering why a guy may try and fix things and possibly be protective, just know that not everyone who does it is doing it with some selfish intention in mind and they may simply just care for you and want you to be happy and feel in their hearts they can help with that even if you know they can't. If a guy is trying to help fix things for you and you do not want his help then simply tell him this because chances are he is totally oblivious to realizing he is possibly making things worse for you. On a purely logical level it makes sense for someone to want to help another person solve their problem because most do not like to have to deal with drama/issues and feel down over that thus they do not want others to feel that way even if dealing with it yourself helps strengthen you or teaches you some life lesson.

 

I will for sure keep an eye on myself in the future and make sure I don't project that image to her or anyone else but at the same time not have the person feel I don't give a crap that they are having some troubles if I indeed do care.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Weird