If you have to hide, or keep secret part of who you are...

[You Go Girl]

then you are ashamed of it.

[califnan]

Then say: Am I a whole, complete woman.. Then how would I fit into the fraction of someone else's life..

[JamesM]

then you are ashamed of it.

 

I agree. I would also say that most of us hide something small or not so small from others. It may be in our past or present. It may simply be thoughts that we have about something or someone.

 

So out of curiosity, what made you start a thread with that as your subject?

[jennie-jennie]

This is an interesting thought. My MM was of the firm opinion that he would never have an affair. Now he has found himself deeply involved in a long term affair. Is he then ashamed of me or of his own behavior? I believe it is his own behavior. Perhaps he has compromised his own morals by going outside of his marriage. Yet he can not stop himself from being with the woman he loves. All he can do is refuse to give up what he used to be.

[Feelin Frisky]

Not necessarily so. I admitted to two women whom I may have had longer relationships with that I had lived with and loved and African American women for five years. They're prejudices and willingness to insult me and her during spats, told me not to be so open with my past. I'm not ashamed of loving Gwen and it enfuriates me when whites or even PRs talk about her like she's a cockroach without even knowing the darling and magnetic human being she was.

[donnamaybe]

Not necessarily so. I admitted to two women whom I may have had longer relationships with that I had lived with and loved and African American women for five years. They're prejudices and willingness to insult me and her during spats, told me not to be so open with my past. I'm not ashamed of loving Gwen and it enfuriates me when whites or even PRs talk about her like she's a cockroach without even knowing the darling and magnetic human being she was.

 

But if you hide that, then you might never know the hate the exists in the next person like you found out about these two. I think it's a good thing to discover the ugliness that may exist inside someone before you allow them into your life.

Edited May 13, 2010 by donnamaybe

[Woggle]

I think it is more fear of getting caught and the consequences of that that motivates them more than shame. The idea that they are not entitled to treat people anyway they want does not even cross their mind.

[donnamaybe]

I think it is more fear of getting caught and the consequences of that that motivates them more than shame. The idea that they are not entitled to treat people anyway they want does not even cross their mind.

For some, yes, and I was JUST going to say:

 

I think some people don't let others on to what they're doing so they can keep getting away with it.

[TaraMaiden]

isn't there also the fact that, even though you may hold no shame or embarrassment about your past, your partner may be offended and upset about it?

How many posts do we get on here (mainly from guys, I have to say) on the theme of "I can't get over her past. I asked her questions, she was honest, but I wish she hadn't told me......"....?

[FarmGirl]

If you're hiding parts of who you are from who you are with, then you aren't with the right person IMO.

[Maxxx]

I don't hide anything that I am doing from my GF now and I have not hidden anything from her since we have been together BUT there are things in my past that I would prefer she not know about. I think some of the things I have done in my past would make her look down on me. I don't think it would break our relationship or pending marriage. But none the less it is in my past and I am not going to tell her.

[TaraMaiden]

If it's something that you think would cause serious issues between you, perhaps it's something you should tackle in counselling together, because if she finds out 'down the line', it may be a hurdle for you both to have to negotiate.

 

If on the other hand it's something to do with an impetuous and reckless youth, you might be misjudging her....

 

At the risk of sounding patronising (and truly, it is not my intention) as you're getting married soon - is this something about her you're guessing about? I mean, don't you know her well enough to KNOW how she'd react, rather than worrying about how she MIGHT react?

[You Go Girl]

I agree. I would also say that most of us hide something small or not so small from others. It may be in our past or present. It may simply be thoughts that we have about something or someone.

 

So out of curiosity, what made you start a thread with that as your subject?

 

Hello James

First, to come home from work today and see the varied responses, each person's take on what that statement means to them, interpretations, etc., and I was not disappointed.

It opens up all kinds of avenues.

Sometimes a simple truth needs to be stated--we can overlook the simple when we focus on the complex.

 

For me personally, it is about being true to myself. I think this is a Truth for everyone, actually. How can we be true to ourselves, if we hide some part of ourselves? And if we can't be true to ourselves, then it just follows that we are not being true to others.

If I am open about whatever I may have hid in the past--I have come to terms with it, I have accepted it as part of me, I have worked out and through whatever part or aspects of it that caused me shame in the first place.

I can no longer hide or deny whatever I was hiding or denying, which must be why I was hiding it in the first place.

So then I own it, and progress can be made. No progress is made when parts of ourselves are hidden. I have faced it, whatever it is.

It's especially significant for the Infidelity section of LS, but it applies to many things in our lives.

Agree?

[fooled once]

I think there is a difference in 'hiding' things from the past and hiding the OW/OM.

 

Is it because they are ashamed of themselves? No idea.

 

Is it because they are ashamed of the OM/OW? No idea

 

My GUESS ..... I think it is because they are ashamed of their behavior and their actions. I think they are ashamed that they can't be honest with themselves AND their spouse.

 

I think they cheat because they can and they can usually find someone to cheat with.

 

I think it is sad that instead of being honest, they would rather live in the shadows and with lies. Mainly lying to themselves.

 

But I also think people will justify those actions and fall on a sword believing those actions because if they don't, then it means that they aren't as 'loved' or 'wanted' than they think. Denial is easier to live with than the truth for many people.

[crazycatlady]

then you are ashamed of it.

 

This I disagree with. Some things are for me only. It has nothing to do with shame.

 

I love to dance. I dance alone and do not will not do it openly and will deny enjoying dancing when out because its personal to me, not something I share with others.

 

I also hide how I feel about certain individuals. I am not ashamed that I think they are annoying as stepping on gum and about as useful, but sharing that won't make anything better. I find others as useful as "tits on a bull" but I'm not going to tell them that.

 

There are other things that are shared with some and not others, but that doesn't mean I'm ashamed of it.

 

I even have one uber secret fantasy that I'm not sharing with anyone but I'm not ashamed of it. Its my fantasy and I like it that way.

 

I don't share that I'm bi-sexual with very many people, but I'm not ashamed of it.

 

But with a lot of things, its simply not their business. Not everything has to be worn on the sleeve.

 

CCL

[You Go Girl]

This is an interesting thought. My MM was of the firm opinion that he would never have an affair. Now he has found himself deeply involved in a long term affair. Is he then ashamed of me or of his own behavior? I believe it is his own behavior. Perhaps he has compromised his own morals by going outside of his marriage. Yet he can not stop himself from being with the woman he loves. All he can do is refuse to give up what he used to be.

 

He is definitely ashamed of his own behavior--of not owning the truth. He may be ashamed of you also though, as a 'partner in crime' something to consider.

And he won't become one undivided whole man--until he owns the truth, and yes, suffers whatever consequences that may bring.

In the end, he cheats himself too, and wastes everyone's time involved, is my point; no matter which woman he eventually chooses.

[You Go Girl]

Not necessarily so. I admitted to two women whom I may have had longer relationships with that I had lived with and loved and African American women for five years. They're prejudices and willingness to insult me and her during spats, told me not to be so open with my past. I'm not ashamed of loving Gwen and it enfuriates me when whites or even PRs talk about her like she's a cockroach without even knowing the darling and magnetic human being she was.

 

I know a man who was beaten within a few inches of his life in Chicago during the race riots of '69. His crime was walking downtown with a black friend, he was white. The attackers were white. Fractured skull, broken arm, other ailments, out of work for 6 months. He was severly depressed, and lost hope for humanity for a long time.

As for those two women you were involved with--I'm surprised you didn't give them the broom after their own 'revelations'. They probably couldn't hold a candle to this Gwen anyway.

[You Go Girl]

I think it is more fear of getting caught and the consequences of that that motivates them more than shame. The idea that they are not entitled to treat people anyway they want does not even cross their mind.

 

I disagree. Avoiding being caught is not as rewarding as living the truth, unhidden.

When we hide--we are cheating ourselves, and we feel it deeply in shame. People do not willingly sacrifice being able to be whole without shame.

[You Go Girl]

isn't there also the fact that, even though you may hold no shame or embarrassment about your past, your partner may be offended and upset about it?

How many posts do we get on here (mainly from guys, I have to say) on the theme of "I can't get over her past. I asked her questions, she was honest, but I wish she hadn't told me......"....?

 

Aren't you a Buddhist? Or am I mistaking you for someone else? I may be.

 

You clue into the harmony of a relationship. You choose what to reveal when, timing, maturity of a relationship, vibrations between you.

People should be wise enough not to ask questions that they are not ready for the answers to.

[Holding-On]

I too disagree.

 

As several have put it, you may not be ashamed of a behaviour but know that revealing it will have negative consequences for you because of how others perceive it, either minor or major.

For example: minor: you pick your nose and you are not ashamed of it. You think it is silly to worry about as long as you wash your hands well after. Your boss is a germophobe. You do not mention your habit to her and do it secretly around her.

major: you live in a country that executes homosexuals. You are a homosexual. You are not ashamed of that but you hide the fact because you don't want to die.

 

 

Alternately you may indulge in a behaviour (such as masturbating, or parents sneaking off to the bedroom and locking their door when they have sex) and simply believe it is a private matter (but not a shameful one) and prefer it to be private or believe it would be inappropriate for other people to know (such as with the parents vis a vis their kids).

[You Go Girl]

But I also think people will justify those actions and fall on a sword believing those actions because if they don't, then it means that they aren't as 'loved' or 'wanted' than they think. Denial is easier to live with than the truth for many people.

 

aren't as loved or wanted as they think...excellent!

or they wish, too perhaps. Or need, to not fall into utter despair. Why do they need so desperately this false love? What is missing from them as a whole person, that they must seek it outside of themselves?

 

You are wise

[You Go Girl]

This I disagree with. Some things are for me only. It has nothing to do with shame.

 

I love to dance. I dance alone and do not will not do it openly and will deny enjoying dancing when out because its personal to me, not something I share with others.

 

I also hide how I feel about certain individuals. I am not ashamed that I think they are annoying as stepping on gum and about as useful, but sharing that won't make anything better. I find others as useful as "tits on a bull" but I'm not going to tell them that.

 

There are other things that are shared with some and not others, but that doesn't mean I'm ashamed of it.

 

I even have one uber secret fantasy that I'm not sharing with anyone but I'm not ashamed of it. Its my fantasy and I like it that way.

 

I don't share that I'm bi-sexual with very many people, but I'm not ashamed of it.

 

But with a lot of things, its simply not their business. Not everything has to be worn on the sleeve.

 

CCL

 

You are mistaking having a private person, which you are entitled to, and hiding part of yourself. They are not the same thing.

[You Go Girl]

I too disagree.

 

As several have put it, you may not be ashamed of a behaviour but know that revealing it will have negative consequences for you because of how others perceive it, either minor or major.

For example: minor: you pick your nose and you are not ashamed of it. You think it is silly to worry about as long as you wash your hands well after. Your boss is a germophobe. You do not mention your habit to her and do it secretly around her.

major: you live in a country that executes homosexuals. You are a homosexual. You are not ashamed of that but you hide the fact because you don't want to die.

 

 

Alternately you may indulge in a behaviour (such as masturbating, or parents sneaking off to the bedroom and locking their door when they have sex) and simply believe it is a private matter (but not a shameful one) and prefer it to be private or believe it would be inappropriate for other people to know (such as with the parents vis a vis their kids).

 

Like I said to crazycatlady, there is a difference between your privacy and hiding part of yourself. Parents should not have to have sex in front of their children as if they must share all. Sharing, and not hiding, are not equal nor necessarily relative things.

The homosexual case is an interesting one...are they really hiding part of themselves? Not if they admit it to themselves--there is no shame. Not sharing it with the world--and thereby not endangering their life-- is a private matter, and a wise choice.

Oppression though, has always been what good people fight against--because yes, it can FORCE a person to have to hide AGAINST THEIR WILL when if they were free, they would choose not to hide.

This brings up an interesting point though--deciding when a behavior is a private one, and when it is shameful. Sometimes it may be difficult to distinguish between the two. Each of us knows in our hearts which is which, unless we live in denial.

[TaraMaiden]

Aren't you a Buddhist? Or am I mistaking you for someone else? I may be.

Yes, but I fail to see the relevance.....

 

You clue into the harmony of a relationship. You choose what to reveal when, timing, maturity of a relationship, vibrations between you.

This is all well and good, if the relationship is showing signs of promise and has matured to that point.

However, very often, this happens early on, because it's part of the process of people getting to know one another. I have to say, it seems to be an issue with the men, more than the women.

This would reflect the double social standards that have existed for centuries: That it's ok for a guy to sow his wild oats - that's being a natural, hot-blooded bloke.

But for a woman to do it, turns her into an object of disdain and disrespect.

 

People should be wise enough not to ask questions that they are not ready for the answers to.

I agree. But when relationships are concerned, wisdom seem to either be in short supply, or fly out the window altogether.

I mean, take this forum for example.....That's what people seek when they create a thread, isn't it?

[OWoman]

I've never hidden, or kept secret, any part of who I am. I believe in living authentically, in complete accord with all parts of myself. And there's certainly no shame involved.

 

I've found Kant's notion of the "categorical imperative" useful in that regard. If you live your life consistently with your values, you have no need for shame or guilt.