A lot of 'woe is me' men on LS

[Stockalone]

Stockalone,

What is it you think you need to change to be more attractive to women?

 

And what is it about those changes you think is either so difficult or so unappealing that you would rather either settle for a mate you are not satisfied with or simply be alone?

 

The changes themselves weren't all that difficult, but very unappealing. I tried that (as an experiment) back in college.

 

I was already in shape, so I just had to portray a different mindset. Replace the caring, albeit insecure, nerdy guy with a slightly smug salesman who wasn't too attached to the woman he was dating.

 

The changes were (shockingly, at least from my POV) successful, but quite frankly made me very cynic.

 

I liked the regular me a lot better than the seemingly "improved" version that women responded to very well. I even had women approaching me and asking me out, that had never happened before. Women never had the same reaction to the version of myself I like much better. I eventually was able to understand why that was, and I can understand why women reacted that way. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

I would never settle though, so the only other option was to be alone. I had one gf that actually liked the original me, but that was it.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, if you really are happy being alone your viewpoint makes sense.

 

I am not happy being alone, but if my choices are being alone, or changing who I am in a way I don't like, I opt for being alone.

 

 

There was a guy who had a very long thread about a year ago. He was unhappily married and had been for a long time. His wife was very clear about what she liked/disliked about him. And he was extraordinarily skilled at making excuses for why he had not addressed her issues. Not only had they been sexless for a few years, she didn't want any physical contact with him, and only tolerated the bare minimum of conversation at the point he first posted. So he was truly alone from a practical standpoint. And yet his post was a 50/50 blend of unhappiness at how she treated him, and reasons for why he couldn't / wouldn't fix the issues. BTW one of the issues was he had gotten really fat. My point is that the compromises/effort associated with a LTR tend to go on for the life of the relationship. And the folks who have a strong sense of "take me as I am/as I have become", even when their partner is very unhappy , tend to have relationships that are fraught.....

 

That has to do with issues you face when you are in a relationship. I don't see how that is relevant in a discussion about having difficulties getting women interested in the first place.

 

 

 

Foolish. Hobbies are what give you more value. Hobbies are things you can always go back to if things in the dating game don't work out. Hobbies are what you can occupy your time with and not worry about what some chick thinks about you because you love the hobby.

 

People, both men and women, who do not have any hobbies besides partying and hanging out with friends are boring. Having a hobby makes rejection much, much less painful. In fact, having hobbies can make you immune from female rejection, because when you are secure in yourself and your abilities, nothing a female can say will affect you.

 

From what the poster said, the implication was that a hobby (or more precisely the type of hobby) makes people more attractive.

 

That may be the case, but I still won't pick up a hobby I don't like. It's like back in high school where it was apparently cool to drink and smoke. I never did because I don't like to drink or smoke.

 

I also don't understand what having hobbies has to do with rejection being easier to handle or not.

 

 

Stockalone,

1. When you say "content with himself just the way he is". I dont feel like this is entirely true. If he was infact content with himself just the way he is then not having success with woman is part of who is is and therefore he should be happy with that. If he is not then he is obviously not content with himself the way he is.

 

Those are seperate issues in my opinion. I was happy with myself just the way I was. What I wasn't happy about, was that this didn't lead to success with women.

 

 

2. Secondly why does change have to turn you into something that you don't like. its not mutually exclusive, change does not mean its something negative.

 

It's not mutually exclusive, but it can go either way. I experienced the changes in my case as something negative in terms of how I felt about it.

 

I've seen guys who did what was suggested here and they felt that these changes were something positive.

 

 

3. I don't feel like the suggestions here mold "men" in any particular way or type. I am almost certain, that deebeechrisyo, kurt, and just about any other "guys" that posted here are absolutely different in many ways. Its more or less knowing the basics. You can't be a good mechanic if you don't know squat about cars, the same kinda follows for women.

 

Fair enough. Maybe I don't like doing the basics then.

 

 

I am in no way suggesting that the hobbies you have are not intesting to you, but in a conversation there are 2 people. The other person has to be interested in the topic also. I can give you a perfect example. I play world of warcraft, I consider it a hobby, and its obviously very interesting to me, and i can probably speak about this topic for hours and not lose interest, BUT I would probably not bring up WoW unless I knew that the other person shared my interest, because most likely the conversation would probably be very boring for the other person. I am simply saying that having multiple hobbies in different aspects and areas are beneficial cause you will have a wider range of topics to talk about.

 

Sure, I have never played world of warcraft, so I wouldn't have anything to say about it in a conversation and I wouldn't be terribly interested to hear about it either.

 

But that holds true for every hobby, no matter if it is world of warcraft, philately, books, art, sports, etc. I wasn't happy with the orignal phrasing "get some interesting hobbies".

 

No hobby is interesting if the person you are talking to doesn't give a damn about that particular hobby. The way I understood it, the "get interesting hobbies" was meant to take up a hobby, not because you like it that much but because plenty of women might like it if you are knowledgeable in that area.

 

If you have a diverse array of hobbies because you enjoy them, then that is for you. You have them because you are interested in those hobbies. I don't have an issue with that.

 

 

Good point here too..i had to cut my response short as it was becoming an essay. I just wanted to add that if your are so fixed on "take me as I am" mentality then you are essentially shrinking your pool of available woman to those that are looking for excatly a person just like you in everyway. What are the odds of meeting that particular person? Being flexible and willingness to compromise or to change (improve) greatly increases your odds of find a great match in a partner and also greatly increases your chances from a statistical stand point as you have a much bigger pool to choose from.

 

I agree with that. And I am certainly that way. it's entirely possible that I am not flexible enough. I live my life for myself, I don't do things just for the sake of maybe attracting a partner somewhere down the line.

[mem11363]

Stockalone,

There is a hybrid approach that goes like this. You show an exterior that is appealing to get things started. You only do this with a woman you think has good core values though. And over time you relax more into - you.

 

As for relationship retention being a different activity than relationship initiation sure I guess so. Thing is this bit about detachment and so forth is a HUGE deal in relationships.

 

Most guys in happy - successful LTRs will tell you they filter/buffer a fair amount of emotional static internally. This makes them lower affect than their female partners and frankly I think that is the way things are meant to be. Hell - I know I do it and do it well and while I can't prove this is a key factor in it - my marital results are exceptionally good.

 

 

The changes themselves weren't all that difficult, but very unappealing. I tried that (as an experiment) back in college.

 

I was already in shape, so I just had to portray a different mindset. Replace the caring, albeit insecure, nerdy guy with a slightly smug salesman who wasn't too attached to the woman he was dating.

 

The changes were (shockingly, at least from my POV) successful, but quite frankly made me very cynic.

 

I liked the regular me a lot better than the seemingly "improved" version that women responded to very well. I even had women approaching me and asking me out, that had never happened before. Women never had the same reaction to the version of myself I like much better. I eventually was able to understand why that was, and I can understand why women reacted that way. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

I would never settle though, so the only other option was to be alone. I had one gf that actually liked the original me, but that was it.

 

 

 

 

I am not happy being alone, but if my choices are being alone, or changing who I am in a way I don't like, I opt for being alone.

 

 

 

 

That has to do with issues you face when you are in a relationship. I don't see how that is relevant in a discussion about having difficulties getting women interested in the first place.

 

 

 

 

 

From what the poster said, the implication was that a hobby (or more precisely the type of hobby) makes people more attractive.

 

That may be the case, but I still won't pick up a hobby I don't like. It's like back in high school where it was apparently cool to drink and smoke. I never did because I don't like to drink or smoke.

 

I also don't understand what having hobbies has to do with rejection being easier to handle or not.

 

 

 

 

Those are seperate issues in my opinion. I was happy with myself just the way I was. What I wasn't happy about, was that this didn't lead to success with women.

 

 

 

 

It's not mutually exclusive, but it can go either way. I experienced the changes in my case as something negative in terms of how I felt about it.

 

I've seen guys who did what was suggested here and they felt that these changes were something positive.

 

 

 

 

Fair enough. Maybe I don't like doing the basics then.

 

 

 

 

Sure, I have never played world of warcraft, so I wouldn't have anything to say about it in a conversation and I wouldn't be terribly interested to hear about it either.

 

But that holds true for every hobby, no matter if it is world of warcraft, philately, books, art, sports, etc. I wasn't happy with the orignal phrasing "get some interesting hobbies".

 

No hobby is interesting if the person you are talking to doesn't give a damn about that particular hobby. The way I understood it, the "get interesting hobbies" was meant to take up a hobby, not because you like it that much but because plenty of women might like it if you are knowledgeable in that area.

 

If you have a diverse array of hobbies because you enjoy them, then that is for you. You have them because you are interested in those hobbies. I don't have an issue with that.

 

 

 

 

I agree with that. And I am certainly that way. it's entirely possible that I am not flexible enough. I live my life for myself, I don't do things just for the sake of maybe attracting a partner somewhere down the line.

[Disillusioned]

I completely agree with your point about the woe-is-me crowd. But let me ask about something else you mentioned.

 

What is all this "confidence" talk I keep hearing? Everyone--men and women--seem to have this idea that if you just have confidence, or act confident, all your problems will be solved. What a load of rubbish! Who the heck can strut around acting confident all the time?

 

Bingo!

I'm confident in what I do and how I live my life... I'm 6'6" (really) and I have no baggage like credit card bills, substance abuse issues, etc etc. But women aren't exactly trying to drop-tackle me every time I leave the house, if you catch my drift.

[suprisinginsight]

The changes themselves weren't all that difficult, but very unappealing. I tried that (as an experiment) back in college.

 

I was already in shape, so I just had to portray a different mindset. Replace the caring, albeit insecure, nerdy guy with a slightly smug salesman who wasn't too attached to the woman he was dating.

 

The changes were (shockingly, at least from my POV) successful, but quite frankly made me very cynic.

 

I liked the regular me a lot better than the seemingly "improved" version that women responded to very well. I even had women approaching me and asking me out, that had never happened before. Women never had the same reaction to the version of myself I like much better. I eventually was able to understand why that was, and I can understand why women reacted that way. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

I would never settle though, so the only other option was to be alone. I had one gf that actually liked the original me, but that was it.

 

 

 

 

I am not happy being alone, but if my choices are being alone, or changing who I am in a way I don't like, I opt for being alone.

 

 

1. The change you talk about, seem like a big shift from one end to the other. I am curious before and after this change were you going after the same type of girls? Did your motive's change also during this change? (As in were you looking for LTR or were you look to just hook up.) The success you talked about where they the kind of girls the "real" you are attracted to?

[Peaceful Guy]

There seem to be a lot of guys on here who are overly hung up on things they can't change and determined to prove that these (height, hair colour, being a man) are the reasons why they are single... not that fact that they are for a start negative and clearly lacking in self confidence.(and god knows what else!).

 

Guys make the most of what you've got and then have confidence to be yourself (but not an arrogant a**hole) and you'll have no problems... oh and also if you are interested then just ask her out FFS! Sure she might say no... but really be a man and put yourself out there. I promise if she says no, you won't instantaneously combust!

 

I don't understand why you guys are trying to mind read... everyone has different taste... just ask out women you are interested in, and how about letting them decide if they like you back.

 

(Sorry to the many men on here who aren't like this!)

 

okay.. a lot of good here.. about feeling good about yourself.. staying positive..

 

here it comes..

 

however, a lot of guys start to feel down because they were like that for a while and stuff didn't work out for them. yes, if you stay true to yourself eventually you will find what you're looking for.. but in the meantime it can hurt very bad and be very lonesome.. and its really not always people's fault!

[Peaceful Guy]

for the record.. i don't feel bad about relationships or lack there of right now.. but im also spending time with much cooler people in general and things are changing for the better in other aspects of my life too.. not lucky stuff, stuff ive worked for.. but when i look back at some of the relationships that could have been.. ug.. im glad i stayed single but it wasn't always easy. i think the worst part was getting over the idea that i HAVE to be in a relationship.

[USMCHokie]

for the record.. i don't feel bad about relationships or lack there of right now.. but im also spending time with much cooler people in general and things are changing for the better in other aspects of my life too.. not lucky stuff, stuff ive worked for.. but when i look back at some of the relationships that could have been.. ug.. im glad i stayed single but it wasn't always easy. i think the worst part was getting over the idea that i HAVE to be in a relationship.

 

 

This is a good point...and a lot of people that had recently broken up with their sig O's tend to carry this attitude around...which only makes it worse for them...

[mem11363]

An absence of debt and an absence of substance abuse are good things. Well actually they are the absence of bad things.

 

But a guy - especially a guy in his 30's / 40's is expected to have a positive net worth, a good job that produces a positive cash flow after expenses and some qualities that make him good company.

 

The absence of debt/drugs are not attractors. The height is likely a great start with many women, but even if being tall is a big deal to a woman, she won't stay in a R with a guy unless he has a lot of positive qualities.

 

 

Bingo!

I'm confident in what I do and how I live my life... I'm 6'6" (really) and I have no baggage like credit card bills, substance abuse issues, etc etc. But women aren't exactly trying to drop-tackle me every time I leave the house, if you catch my drift.

[Stockalone]

1. The change you talk about, seem like a big shift from one end to the other.

 

That is how I saw that change, although the guys I went to college with didn't think it was that big of a change.

 

 

I am curious before and after this change were you going after the same type of girls? Did your motive's change also during this change? (As in were you looking for LTR or were you look to just hook up.)

 

None of that changed. Same goal (LTR), same kind of women.

 

 

The success you talked about where they the kind of girls the "real" you are attracted to?

 

Success meant getting dates. Obviously, the women I dated during that time were my (physical) type. Personality wise, plenty of them weren't what I was looking for. And neither was I what many of them were looking for, but I think that is normal.

[suprisinginsight]

 

Success meant getting dates. Obviously, the women I dated during that time were my (physical) type. Personality wise, plenty of them weren't what I was looking for. And neither was I what many of them were looking for, but I think that is normal.

 

 

Stockalone,

I agree with you that the change you described did seem like a big change. I also concur that if this is the change you are talking about i can definately see why you would be unhappy with the change. I would be unhappy with the change also if it was me. At the same time i can see why that change would, from your (POV), seemingly have greater success with woman.

 

Just a few points you can consider.

 

1. I feel like maybe the "changed" you, does not necessarily promote attraction from the "personality" types that you perfer or are really looking for, although the physical aspect maybe a close match.

 

2. Secondly the percieved success maybe due to the kinds of woman you are attracting with your changed persona. That sub set of woman that you are attracting with your changed persona is more likely active daters thus more open and willing to date new people. So your success rate seems to have increased.

 

3. Re evaluate what you define as success. Getting a date with a girls that are not your physical/personality type nor would you have any interest in LTR with them in my book is not successful. Going down to the bar and picking up 10 "shanks" is not really a big deal imo. Heck I mean they are practically giving it away. Alot can be said about quality over quanity.

 

 

4. I feel like you have alot of positive things going for you, so don't feel discourged. Keep at it i think youre on the right track.

[Stockalone]

Just a few points you can consider.

 

1. I feel like maybe the "changed" you, does not necessarily promote attraction from the "personality" types that you perfer or are really looking for, although the physical aspect maybe a close match.

 

Well, I could only go out with those women who actually agreed to go on a date with me. I see your point though, but I don't believe it's possible to get a specific type of woman interested.

 

 

2. Secondly the percieved success maybe due to the kinds of woman you are attracting with your changed persona. That sub set of woman that you are attracting with your changed persona is more likely active daters thus more open and willing to date new people. So your success rate seems to have increased.

 

You must have misunderstood. That was not a permanent change, it was just an experiment back in college. I wanted to see what it takes to get dates.

 

And the success wasn't perceived. There is a very significant difference between not getting a single date and getting plenty of them. What the women did have in common was that they were students in their early to mid twenties. But they didn't all have the same or even a similar personality. It was a fairly wide range, which makes it IMO unlikely that I coincidentally encountered a specific subset of women who were responsive to the changed version of me.

 

 

3. Re evaluate what you define as success. Getting a date with a girls that are not your physical/personality type nor would you have any interest in LTR with them in my book is not successful. Going down to the bar and picking up 10 "shanks" is not really a big deal imo. Heck I mean they are practically giving it away. Alot can be said about quality over quanity.

 

What gave you that impression? I never dated women I didn't find attractive, nor did I continue dating women when I thought that there was no long-term potential, personality wise. And I always try to avoid promiscuous women, so I never even tried to pick up women in bars to hook up with them.

 

 

4. I feel like you have alot of positive things going for you, so don't feel discourged. Keep at it i think youre on the right track.

 

I appreciate that, but I no longer bother with the whole thing.