deebeechrisyo Posted May 17, 2010 Posted May 17, 2010 Party girls tend to cake on the makeup, plus you are usually under the influence of beer goggles yourself when you first meet them. The transition from seeing them out at the bars to the next morning is not pretty.
Eeyore79 Posted May 18, 2010 Posted May 18, 2010 Here's what I did: 2. Learn "Game". Yes this will probably upset the women here, but wait! One of the core teachings of game is gaining the confidence to approach and talk to woman anytime and anywhere. How is this bad? Sure, there are aspects of "Game" that are sleazy, but you don't need to learn those if you don't want to. I'm learning "Game" to find a good woman I can be in a relationship with. I'm a woman, and I don't think that learning some "game" or pickup artist skills is necessarily a bad thing. It teaches you what women respond to, and I know that such information can be used to get women into bed and mess them around, but it can also help decent guys who want a genuine relationship but struggle to attract women... in fact it improves a guy's social skills all round, thereby improving his entire social life.
Eeyore79 Posted May 18, 2010 Posted May 18, 2010 Hanging out with a girl that I'm infatuated with but can't actually have is very painful. It gets worse as time goes on. It's not something I'm willing to put myself through again. Creating a social life out of thin air is seems to be actually more difficult than dating a girl. Also I'm already over the clingy phase of my life. I know a girl I'm involved with will also want space. Don't get infatuated with her then! Infatuation develops when you trail around after her for months, pining for her and not doing anything about it. You shouldn't even give infatuation time to develop. Be clear about your intentions from the very beginning, make it obvious that you don't want to be just a friend, and if she rejects you then she'll do it right at the beginning before you waste your time and become infatuated with her. Creating a social life out of thin air isn't really that difficult. Think about what you might be interested in, then go and join a group. Martial arts, tabletop games, amateur dramatics, whatever... it will get you out of the house a few times a week, and will also give you something interesting to talk about when people ask you about yourself. Facebook some of the people you meet and chat to them, invite them out for a beer after your group activity, etc. I'm a shy and introverted person, but I signed up for amateur dramatics and got involved in rehearsals, fundraising activities, group social events... I think the nature of the activity has made me a little more confident, and it adds a facet to my personality and makes me seem interesting and confident and artistic, not to mention it gives me some sort of social life.
TheBigQuestion Posted May 18, 2010 Posted May 18, 2010 I'm a woman, and I don't think that learning some "game" or pickup artist skills is necessarily a bad thing. It teaches you what women respond to, and I know that such information can be used to get women into bed and mess them around, but it can also help decent guys who want a genuine relationship but struggle to attract women... in fact it improves a guy's social skills all round, thereby improving his entire social life. Agreed 100%. The foundation behind having "game" is having "inner game," which then should translate outwards in a positive manner. It is a tool that can be used for good and evil, but is not either or in and of itself.
deebeechrisyo Posted May 18, 2010 Posted May 18, 2010 Agreed 100%. The foundation behind having "game" is having "inner game," which then should translate outwards in a positive manner. It is a tool that can be used for good and evil, but is not either or in and of itself. Excellent point. Game has a negative reputation because most casual observers see shows like the "Pick Up Artist", and assume that this stuff is just for frustrated guys to take out their frustrations on the women that have ignored them their whole lives.
suprisinginsight Posted May 18, 2010 Posted May 18, 2010 Agreed 100%. The foundation behind having "game" is having "inner game," which then should translate outwards in a positive manner. It is a tool that can be used for good and evil, but is not either or in and of itself. Very valid point. I couldn't have worded it better myself. "Inner game" I believe is the foundation for confindence, that once transferred outwards in a postivie manner...is percieved by others as confindence. But more importantly keep in mind that confindence is a perception of others towards your belief in yourself. If you don't believe in yourself how are you able to convience others to believe in you.
somedude81 Posted May 18, 2010 Posted May 18, 2010 You don't have to believe in yourself. Just believe in someone who believes in you
marsle85 Posted May 18, 2010 Posted May 18, 2010 Here's what I did: 1. Work out a lot (make sure you set goals too, the competitive nature of man will prevent you from quitting and will keep your motivations levels high) 2. Learn "Game". Yes this will probably upset the women here, but wait! One of the core teachings of game is gaining the confidence to approach and talk to woman anytime and anywhere. How is this bad? Sure, there are aspects of "Game" that are sleazy, but you don't need to learn those if you don't want to. I'm learning "Game" to find a good woman I can be in a relationship with. 3. Fake it til you make it (body language, clear speaking, etc.). 4. Get some interesting hobbies. 5. Most important: Don't do this stuff just to get girls. Do it because you love it and because it makes you feel great. By the way looks are great if you are able to capitalize on them. I know I'm quite attractive to women, but I have long spurts between partners, and much to my dismay I haven't had a relationship last past 4 months and I'm 27. Women don't throw themselves at you, you still have to do the work. I agree with everything he said here, even the minor "game" comment. Dooo it! And goodluck.
witabix Posted May 18, 2010 Posted May 18, 2010 Woe is me, oh woe is me, With this hook in my nose, And my wandering eye, A good looking girl, Is just pie in the sky. I just want to find, A girl that is sweet, With no sense of smell, So she can't smell my feet. A girl who drinks beer, And plays lots of pool, Who isn't too bright, Coz I'm a big fool. Who'll have sex all night, And beg me for more, Who really won't mind, I'm a f**king great bore. Who will gaze up me, With her eyes darkly lined, And say with a breath, "Men like you are so hard to find"
Stockalone Posted May 18, 2010 Posted May 18, 2010 Most important: Don't do this stuff just to get girls. Do it because you love it and because it makes you feel great. But what if a man doesn't love doing those things and it also doesn't make him feel great? What alternatives does he have? I agree with everything he said here, even the minor "game" comment. Dooo it! And goodluck. Since you agree with deebeechrisyo, do you have advice (an alternative) for guys who don't enjoy doing the things that he mentioned?
suprisinginsight Posted May 18, 2010 Posted May 18, 2010 But what if a man doesn't love doing those things and it also doesn't make him feel great? What alternatives does he have? I think deebeechrisyo was talking about working out and finding intersting hobbies, but more importantly i think the message he was trying to convey was that you should be doing those things for yourself and not so you can pick up girls. I don't see why anyone would have issues with "4. Get some interesting hobbies." Anyways what deebeechrisyo posted is a guide. Rereading his post this is what i took away from it. 1. Be happy with your appearance. (if you think you're over weight lose some if you're too skinny put on some muscle) 2. Learn to talk to and approach women 3. Keep trying till you succeed and don't get discouraged. 4. Be interesting or at least have something interesting to say or talk about 5. Be yourself don't put up and act.
deebeechrisyo Posted May 18, 2010 Posted May 18, 2010 I think deebeechrisyo was talking about working out and finding intersting hobbies, but more importantly i think the message he was trying to convey was that you should be doing those things for yourself and not so you can pick up girls. I don't see why anyone would have issues with "4. Get some interesting hobbies." Anyways what deebeechrisyo posted is a guide. Rereading his post this is what i took away from it. 1. Be happy with your appearance. (if you think you're over weight lose some if you're too skinny put on some muscle) 2. Learn to talk to and approach women 3. Keep trying till you succeed and don't get discouraged. 4. Be interesting or at least have something interesting to say or talk about 5. Be yourself don't put up and act. That's a pretty good analysis, however "being yourself" is just a fairy tale. If you have been yourself for the past 20 years with minimal success, then why keep doing that? Perhaps a better way to say that is "once you become an interesting person to the opposite sex, then you can afford to be yourself". If that is what you meant, then sorry I misread what you posted. Being myself even two years ago would be showing up to the bars in athletic shorts and t-shirt and engaging women in thrilling conversion about computer programming languages
mem11363 Posted May 18, 2010 Posted May 18, 2010 Confidence - game - is a side effect of developing yourself. I broke it down into 3 buckets: - Being good company (mainly conversation - but being good at some sports/knowing how to canoe/sail really help also) - Appearance (mostly fitness, dressing decently having an ok haircut help) - Provider skills/income You show me a guy who has really developed in those areas and 9/10 times he is confident - BECAUSE HE SHOULD BE. I think deebeechrisyo was talking about working out and finding intersting hobbies, but more importantly i think the message he was trying to convey was that you should be doing those things for yourself and not so you can pick up girls. I don't see why anyone would have issues with "4. Get some interesting hobbies." Anyways what deebeechrisyo posted is a guide. Rereading his post this is what i took away from it. 1. Be happy with your appearance. (if you think you're over weight lose some if you're too skinny put on some muscle) 2. Learn to talk to and approach women 3. Keep trying till you succeed and don't get discouraged. 4. Be interesting or at least have something interesting to say or talk about 5. Be yourself don't put up and act.
Curt Posted May 19, 2010 Moderators Posted May 19, 2010 (edited) But it's about conquering your inner demons, your negative thoughts and most importantly accepting your strengths and weaknesses and learing how to work with them. Where does confidence come from? Trying, failing, learning and trying again over and over. The main ingredients are the willingness to learn and change and the courage to act on it. This is the right answer. Confidence is soo important ... and as part of this equation, one must have the balls to face oneself, one's weaknesses and embrace our strengths. Continue to learn and adapt. Be real with the fact that we all are imperfect, but be as perfect in that imperfection as you can be. I was a bit of a whiner myself and I still catch myself doing it from time to time. I'm NO Brad Pitt ... but when I walk into a room I can get people's attention and I've seen the difference it makes in the quality of women I attract ... 9's and 10's. Confidence. Not being a jerk, but knowing yourself. Walking confidently, looking into a woman's eyes with that "You know I could, and I am sure you'd enjoy being around me ... do you also have what it takes?" look. Being able to express yourself without words. A woman doesn't want to be TOLD it, she wants to EXPERIENCE it. She knows when she's met a non-ass-kissing, confident, charasmatic, good-charactered male. He walks into a room, and people know he's there. He has established social groundrules without really speaking. When people are hurting (as is often the case at Loveshack) they've often suffered social and emotional hits that have left them scarred personally. These wounds are worse than physical ones, as they communicate themselves in the way we approach people, the way we walk, the way we allow ourselves to look in pubic, how we talk, how we feel about us. Unfortunately, some elements of our society have brainwashed men into thinking that what a woman really wants is for us to be all sensitive, emotionally connected, and sweet, etc. ... but this is only HALF the truth. These things are fine, as long as the primary qualities a guy has are such things as being self-aware of his own needs and unapologetic of them, knowing when and how to take care of situations with a woman, being in control of his emotions, etc. Women want MEN, not other WOMEN ... well, unless, y'know. We have somehow allowed our birthright to "be men" become associated with abusiveness, qualities of being a jerk, childish, etc., and I truly believe women are disappointed by this, and they keep searching for those men that make them "feel it" again. For most women, pushovers and whiners need not apply. That's not leadership, it's not sexy, and it's not what gets a guy a wife and children that love him. Disagree if you will, but I've been there and watched enough ... it is unlikely I'll be swayed from these ideas. Curt Edited May 19, 2010 by Curt Punctuation and Flow ...
MrNate Posted May 19, 2010 Posted May 19, 2010 This is the right answer. Confidence is soo important ... and as part of this equation, one must have the balls to face oneself, one's weaknesses and embrace our strengths. Continue to learn and adapt. Be real with the fact that we all are imperfect, but be as perfect in that imperfection as you can be. I was a bit of a whiner myself and I still catch myself doing it from time to time. I'm NO Brad Pitt ... but when I walk into a room I can get people's attention and I've seen the difference it makes in the quality of women I attract ... 9's and 10's. Confidence. Not being a jerk, but knowing yourself. Walking confidently, looking into a woman's eyes with that "You know I could, and I am sure you'd enjoy being around me ... do you also have what it takes?" look. Being able to express yourself without words. A woman doesn't want to be TOLD it, she wants to EXPERIENCE it. She knows when she's met a non-ass-kissing, confident, charasmatic, good-charactered male. He walks into a room, and people know he's there. He has established social groundrules without really speaking. When people are hurting (as is often the case at Loveshack) they've often suffered social and emotional hits that have left them scarred personally. These wounds are worse than physical ones, as they communicate themselves in the way we approach people, the way we walk, the way we allow ourselves to look in pubic, how we talk, how we feel about us. Unfortunately, some elements of our society have brainwashed men into thinking that what a woman really wants is for us to be all sensitive, emotionally connected, and sweet, etc. ... but this is only HALF the truth. These things are fine, as long as the primary qualities a guy has are such things as being self-aware of his own needs and unapologetic of them, knowing when and how to take care of situations with a woman, being in control of his emotions, etc. Women want MEN, not other WOMEN ... well, unless, y'know. We have somehow allowed our birthright to "be men" become associated with abusiveness, qualities of being a jerk, childish, etc., and I truly believe women are disappointed by this, and they keep searching for those men that make them "feel it" again. For most women, pushovers and whiners need not apply. That's not leadership, it's not sexy, and it's not what gets a guy a wife and children that love him. Disagree if you will, but I've been there and watched enough ... it is unlikely I'll be swayed from these ideas. Curt I see why you have the title of 'loveshack alumni'. This has got to be the best post in this thread.
Stockalone Posted May 19, 2010 Posted May 19, 2010 I think deebeechrisyo was talking about working out and finding intersting hobbies, but more importantly i think the message he was trying to convey was that you should be doing those things for yourself and not so you can pick up girls. Yes, I understood that. My point was that if a guy is content with himself just the way he is, but has no success with women, what is he supposed to do? Change in a way he doesn't like, just to be able to have success with women or remain the way he is and not have women interested in him? That said, if people truly enjoy and feel better with their new self after addressing points 1-5, then that's great for them. What does bother me though, is that IMO the advice given seems to want to mold men into a narrowly defined type. In terms of getting women, that might not be the worst thing, because it does work. But is that really the only way? I don't see why anyone would have issues with "4. Get some interesting hobbies." That is exactly the one I have issues with. To suggest that someone should get some interesting hobbies is rather insulting. How many people do you know who have hobbies because they think they are boring? I think that people choose their hobbies because they enjoy them, hence find them interesting.
gypsy_nicky Posted May 19, 2010 Posted May 19, 2010 This is the right answer. Confidence is soo important ... and as part of this equation, one must have the balls to face oneself, one's weaknesses and embrace our strengths. Continue to learn and adapt. Be real with the fact that we all are imperfect, but be as perfect in that imperfection as you can be. I was a bit of a whiner myself and I still catch myself doing it from time to time. I'm NO Brad Pitt ... but when I walk into a room I can get people's attention and I've seen the difference it makes in the quality of women I attract ... 9's and 10's. Confidence. Not being a jerk, but knowing yourself. Walking confidently, looking into a woman's eyes with that "You know I could, and I am sure you'd enjoy being around me ... do you also have what it takes?" look. Being able to express yourself without words. A woman doesn't want to be TOLD it, she wants to EXPERIENCE it. She knows when she's met a non-ass-kissing, confident, charasmatic, good-charactered male. He walks into a room, and people know he's there. He has established social groundrules without really speaking. When people are hurting (as is often the case at Loveshack) they've often suffered social and emotional hits that have left them scarred personally. These wounds are worse than physical ones, as they communicate themselves in the way we approach people, the way we walk, the way we allow ourselves to look in pubic, how we talk, how we feel about us. Unfortunately, some elements of our society have brainwashed men into thinking that what a woman really wants is for us to be all sensitive, emotionally connected, and sweet, etc. ... but this is only HALF the truth. These things are fine, as long as the primary qualities a guy has are such things as being self-aware of his own needs and unapologetic of them, knowing when and how to take care of situations with a woman, being in control of his emotions, etc. Women want MEN, not other WOMEN ... well, unless, y'know. We have somehow allowed our birthright to "be men" become associated with abusiveness, qualities of being a jerk, childish, etc., and I truly believe women are disappointed by this, and they keep searching for those men that make them "feel it" again. For most women, pushovers and whiners need not apply. That's not leadership, it's not sexy, and it's not what gets a guy a wife and children that love him. Disagree if you will, but I've been there and watched enough ... it is unlikely I'll be swayed from these ideas. Curt this is true although it only applies to getting women that are usually in your league. Physical attractiveness and social status come into play as well. I have a workmate (and have met numerous dudes) that are just like what you mentioned, but for his (and their) sake cannot get with anything higher than a 7. He/They don't look repulsive just plain average and my workmate is a redhead (yes the stereotype applies most often). The point your making is still true though. Women say what they like but are really communicating something else. So, 'no' to nice guy behavior.
GoodOnPaper Posted May 19, 2010 Posted May 19, 2010 but when I walk into a room I can get people's attention and I've seen the difference it makes in the quality of women I attract ... 9's and 10's. For most women, pushovers and whiners need not apply. That's not leadership, it's not sexy, and it's not what gets a guy a wife and children that love him. I'm with you in that knowing and accepting yourself is most of the battle, but I have a hard time connecting these two concepts. The way I read this, it seems everything is about attracting 9's and 10's and if you can't, you won't get a wife and children that love you. While failing miserably at the former I still ended up getting the latter -- despite my "nice guy" tendencies and my regrets and self-hatred for having those tendencies. Two-thirds of us are within one standard deviation of "average" looking, meaning that there are only so many 9's and 10's of either sex to go around. Are those of us who would rate below a "9" simply settling for each other or is there something deeper involved in searching for that right partner? (If not, then the whole thing seems pretty absurd to me.)
mem11363 Posted May 19, 2010 Posted May 19, 2010 Stockalone, What is it you think you need to change to be more attractive to women? And what is it about those changes you think is either so difficult or so unappealing that you would rather either settle for a mate you are not satisfied with or simply be alone? Don't get me wrong, if you really are happy being alone your viewpoint makes sense. There was a guy who had a very long thread about a year ago. He was unhappily married and had been for a long time. His wife was very clear about what she liked/disliked about him. And he was extraordinarily skilled at making excuses for why he had not addressed her issues. Not only had they been sexless for a few years, she didn't want any physical contact with him, and only tolerated the bare minimum of conversation at the point he first posted. So he was truly alone from a practical standpoint. And yet his post was a 50/50 blend of unhappiness at how she treated him, and reasons for why he couldn't / wouldn't fix the issues. BTW one of the issues was he had gotten really fat. My point is that the compromises/effort associated with a LTR tend to go on for the life of the relationship. And the folks who have a strong sense of "take me as I am/as I have become", even when their partner is very unhappy , tend to have relationships that are fraught..... Yes, I understood that. My point was that if a guy is content with himself just the way he is, but has no success with women, what is he supposed to do? Change in a way he doesn't like, just to be able to have success with women or remain the way he is and not have women interested in him? That said, if people truly enjoy and feel better with their new self after addressing points 1-5, then that's great for them. What does bother me though, is that IMO the advice given seems to want to mold men into a narrowly defined type. In terms of getting women, that might not be the worst thing, because it does work. But is that really the only way? That is exactly the one I have issues with. To suggest that someone should get some interesting hobbies is rather insulting. How many people do you know who have hobbies because they think they are boring? I think that people choose their hobbies because they enjoy them, hence find them interesting.
espec10001 Posted May 19, 2010 Posted May 19, 2010 That is exactly the one I have issues with. To suggest that someone should get some interesting hobbies is rather insulting. How many people do you know who have hobbies because they think they are boring? I think that people choose their hobbies because they enjoy them, hence find them interesting. Foolish. Hobbies are what give you more value. Hobbies are things you can always go back to if things in the dating game don't work out. Hobbies are what you can occupy your time with and not worry about what some chick thinks about you because you love the hobby. People, both men and women, who do not have any hobbies besides partying and hanging out with friends are boring. Having a hobby makes rejection much, much less painful. In fact, having hobbies can make you immune from female rejection, because when you are secure in yourself and your abilities, nothing a female can say will affect you.
suprisinginsight Posted May 19, 2010 Posted May 19, 2010 Yes, I understood that. My point was that if a guy is content with himself just the way he is, but has no success with women, what is he supposed to do? Change in a way he doesn't like, just to be able to have success with women or remain the way he is and not have women interested in him? That said, if people truly enjoy and feel better with their new self after addressing points 1-5, then that's great for them. What does bother me though, is that IMO the advice given seems to want to mold men into a narrowly defined type. In terms of getting women, that might not be the worst thing, because it does work. But is that really the only way? That is exactly the one I have issues with. To suggest that someone should get some interesting hobbies is rather insulting. How many people do you know who have hobbies because they think they are boring? I think that people choose their hobbies because they enjoy them, hence find them interesting. Stockalone, 1. When you say "content with himself just the way he is". I dont feel like this is entirely true. If he was infact content with himself just the way he is then not having success with woman is part of who is is and therefore he should be happy with that. If he is not then he is obviously not content with himself the way he is. 2. Secondly why does change have to turn you into something that you don't like. its not mutually exclusive, change does not mean its something negative. 3. I don't feel like the suggestions here mold "men" in any particular way or type. I am almost certain, that deebeechrisyo, kurt, and just about any other "guys" that posted here are absolutely different in many ways. Its more or less knowing the basics. You can't be a good mechanic if you don't know squat about cars, the same kinda follows for women. I am in no way suggesting that the hobbies you have are not intesting to you, but in a conversation there are 2 people. The other person has to be interested in the topic also. I can give you a perfect example. I play world of warcraft, I consider it a hobby, and its obviously very interesting to me, and i can probably speak about this topic for hours and not lose interest, BUT I would probably not bring up WoW unless I knew that the other person shared my interest, because most likely the conversation would probably be very boring for the other person. I am simply saying that having multiple hobbies in different aspects and areas are beneficial cause you will have a wider range of topics to talk about.
suprisinginsight Posted May 19, 2010 Posted May 19, 2010 My point is that the compromises/effort associated with a LTR tend to go on for the life of the relationship. And the folks who have a strong sense of "take me as I am/as I have become", even when their partner is very unhappy , tend to have relationships that are fraught..... Good point here too..i had to cut my response short as it was becoming an essay. I just wanted to add that if your are so fixed on "take me as I am" mentality then you are essentially shrinking your pool of available woman to those that are looking for excatly a person just like you in everyway. What are the odds of meeting that particular person? Being flexible and willingness to compromise or to change (improve) greatly increases your odds of find a great match in a partner and also greatly increases your chances from a statistical stand point as you have a much bigger pool to choose from. just my 2 cents.
suprisinginsight Posted May 19, 2010 Posted May 19, 2010 Being myself even two years ago would be showing up to the bars in athletic shorts and t-shirt and engaging women in thrilling conversion about computer programming languages c++ FTW! lol might be worth a shot if the bar was just jammed packed with female engineers and computer programmers.
mem11363 Posted May 19, 2010 Posted May 19, 2010 Agree with all this including the last bit about common interests. The more abstract aspect of this is that the more skills you acquire, the more comfortable you become acquiring new skills/being adventurous. Doing new things with someone is often a bonding experience. Doing things you are good at - often shows you in a highly favorable light. When I would play tennis with a date they learned a lot about me. Sense of humor when I missed a close shot, sportsmanship when they made a great hit and took the point, competitiveness when I chased down a lob, risk taking and aggressiveness in coming to the net. All things that if I self described in a conversation would come across very badly, but when shown through simple action made a good impression. Stockalone, 1. When you say "content with himself just the way he is". I dont feel like this is entirely true. If he was infact content with himself just the way he is then not having success with woman is part of who is is and therefore he should be happy with that. If he is not then he is obviously not content with himself the way he is. 2. Secondly why does change have to turn you into something that you don't like. its not mutually exclusive, change does not mean its something negative. 3. I don't feel like the suggestions here mold "men" in any particular way or type. I am almost certain, that deebeechrisyo, kurt, and just about any other "guys" that posted here are absolutely different in many ways. Its more or less knowing the basics. You can't be a good mechanic if you don't know squat about cars, the same kinda follows for women. I am in no way suggesting that the hobbies you have are not intesting to you, but in a conversation there are 2 people. The other person has to be interested in the topic also. I can give you a perfect example. I play world of warcraft, I consider it a hobby, and its obviously very interesting to me, and i can probably speak about this topic for hours and not lose interest, BUT I would probably not bring up WoW unless I knew that the other person shared my interest, because most likely the conversation would probably be very boring for the other person. I am simply saying that having multiple hobbies in different aspects and areas are beneficial cause you will have a wider range of topics to talk about.
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