giotto Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 L2d No one is looking for a nice guy beta male... you know that and yes Im serious I read your other thread... come on! Be strong! You owe it to your kids...
xxoo Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 L2d No one is looking for a nice guy beta male... you know that and yes Im serious plowman--- please, please, please...think of your kids... I'd take a nice beta male over an alpha jerk any day (I realize not all alphas are jerks). There are women who value stability and kindness over excitement and drama.
stace79 Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 Well, what specifically are the things you would like for your H to do to make you happier? You just talk about a "spark", but what exactly does that mean? It's vague and frankly I think it's an excuse. Do you want him to tell you "no" more frequently? Do you want him to participate in a hobby with you, like tennis or something? Should he get more time with his male buddies so that you have time to yourself? What exactly would help you out? I agree with the other poster who finds it hard to believe that you don't have any connection with the man you've lived with, shared chores with, had children with, etc. for however many years now.... Even if it wasn't love, you'd have to have some kind of connection with him after all that.
Author Luv2dance Posted May 14, 2010 Author Posted May 14, 2010 Lots of couples are happy, loving, and functional without being best friends. If you need a best friends person, cultivate that outside the marriage with a woman friend. If you put that expectation on your H, and he just can't meet that need, you will always be disappointed. I wonder how you can not feel connected to a sweet, loving person who helps around the house and is a great father to your children? Why aren't those actions endearing him to you? What specifically are you looking for in connection? Is it a conversation need? A shared hobby need? A sexual need? It is hard to put into words...it's not that I feel no connection to him at all. If there was nothing then it would be easy to walk away. I guess it is a communication and sexual need that is lacking. It is very hard to understand from the outside I am sure, but I did ignore the lack of physical attraction to him when I married him. And since we didn't have sex before we married I didn't have the knowledge of how compatible we would be on that front. It is frustrating to me and I do wish there was a button I could push to make me instantly attracted. Don't get me wrong I know how blessed I am to have a man willing to fight with me for our marriage. I do feel like the MC is helping and I am trying to be specific about my needs. We are also reading the book Ten Minute Sexual Solutions to try to bring some changes to the bedroom.
You Go Girl Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 L2d No one is looking for a nice guy beta male... you know that and yes Im serious There are many many women who are out there right now searching for a nice beta male. Some are women who have been cheated on, beaten by, etc., the alpha selfish male. Those women understand the terrific qualities of the beta because they never want to be used or abused again, and would give just about anything to find a nice guy, now that they know just how terrible a choice it was to go for the bad boy. Some are just women who have loved and lost, and now have their priorities in order, want a stable individual who also knows how to cherish the stability of being loved without drama. There's all kinds of women out there that might find you their perfect cup of tea....
FarmGirl Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 There are many many women who are out there right now searching for a nice beta male. Some are women who have been cheated on, beaten by, etc., the alpha selfish male. Those women understand the terrific qualities of the beta because they never want to be used or abused again, and would give just about anything to find a nice guy, now that they know just how terrible a choice it was to go for the bad boy. Some are just women who have loved and lost, and now have their priorities in order, want a stable individual who also knows how to cherish the stability of being loved without drama. There's all kinds of women out there that might find you their perfect cup of tea.... Beware the scary Alpha male who feels like a Beta male...(my guy gives all appearances of being a Beta...)... Just sayin hehe
xxoo Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 Reading all this alpha/beta dialog, the thought that keeps popping into my head is "be careful what you wish for...." l2d, you have a man with many wonderful qualities, and some flaws. That describes both alphas and betas. Personally, I could not live with the worst flaws of the typical alpha. The relationship might be exciting for a while, but it would also be harmful to my psyche. It wouldn't end well. Do you really want an alpha? Because it isn't all about passionate sex. Often, it is also about doing the lion's share of work around the house, not feeling your feelings are valued, and wondering who else is enjoying his passionate sex. Maybe you experienced some of these realities with the men you dated before choosing your H? You can't cherry-pick the qualities you like and design a man. There is no Perfect Man out there (nor is there a Perfect Woman). When you find yourself thinking about the shortcomings of your H, maybe imagine the horrors of his extreme opposite.
giotto Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 Reading all this alpha/beta dialog, the thought that keeps popping into my head is "be careful what you wish for...." l2d, you have a man with many wonderful qualities, and some flaws. That describes both alphas and betas. Personally, I could not live with the worst flaws of the typical alpha. The relationship might be exciting for a while, but it would also be harmful to my psyche. It wouldn't end well. Do you really want an alpha? Because it isn't all about passionate sex. Often, it is also about doing the lion's share of work around the house, not feeling your feelings are valued, and wondering who else is enjoying his passionate sex. Maybe you experienced some of these realities with the men you dated before choosing your H? You can't cherry-pick the qualities you like and design a man. There is no Perfect Man out there (nor is there a Perfect Woman). When you find yourself thinking about the shortcomings of your H, maybe imagine the horrors of his extreme opposite. I think l2d doesn't find her husband sexually attractive... well, that's a biggie...
FarmGirl Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 oh & I dated this Alpha guy for awhile, he was great until one night we were fighting & I denied him sex, which he then *took* anyways... jerk
xxoo Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 I think l2d doesn't find her husband sexually attractive... well, that's a biggie... It is a biggie. To some extent, I think sexual attraction comes from repeated positive sexual experiences with a person. To that end: It is frustrating to me and I do wish there was a button I could push to make me instantly attracted. Being coy here, but that button is between your legs What if you just think about what you need to think about to get hot, give yourself the stimulation you need (while he touches you there and elsewhere), maybe watch some porn or read erotica together, and just enjoy your sexuality in his company? It doesn't have to be him turning you on. Just be super turned on with him, and the associations will follow.
giotto Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 It is a biggie. To some extent, I think sexual attraction comes from repeated positive sexual experiences with a person. To that end: Being coy here, but that button is between your legs What if you just think about what you need to think about to get hot, give yourself the stimulation you need (while he touches you there and elsewhere), maybe watch some porn or read erotica together, and just enjoy your sexuality in his company? It doesn't have to be him turning you on. Just be super turned on with him, and the associations will follow. mmm.... try and imagine someone you don't find attractive at all and then think about having sex with him every day...
xxoo Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 (edited) mmm.... try and imagine someone you don't find attractive at all and then think about having sex with him every day... It is one thing to imagine someone I find repulsive...but I don't think that is the case with l2d. Someone I'm not particularly attracted to? I think people manage that all the time, and build attraction through shared positive experiences--sexual and otherwise. edited to add, it might help to think about how people in other cultures view sex within marriage. I know a lot of very happy couples in arranged marriages. Is the sex fireworks? Probably not for all, but that isn't the most important thing in their culture. If I imagine myself in that situation, I believe I could grow to love and enjoy sex with just about any man that was good to me and my kids. Edited May 14, 2010 by xxoo
giotto Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 It is one thing to imagine someone I find repulsive...but I don't think that is the case with l2d. Someone I'm not particularly attracted to? I think people manage that all the time, and build attraction through shared positive experiences--sexual and otherwise. edited to add, it might help to think about how people in other cultures view sex within marriage. I know a lot of very happy couples in arranged marriages. Is the sex fireworks? Probably not for all, but that isn't the most important thing in their culture. If I imagine myself in that situation, I believe I could grow to love and enjoy sex with just about any man that was good to me and my kids. of course you might be right... but judging from what I've read on LS, lots of people would find that difficult... Personally, I've been with girlfriends I didn't find particularly attractive physically (i.e. not my type at all), but their personality made up for that and they were good in bed... Would I marry a person I'm not particularly attracted too, though? No, because I still think that physical attraction has to be there 100% for the marriage to survive on the long run... I find my wife very attractive still (despite our problems) and that's one of the reasons why I decided to stay... although I don't get to see her body often enough...
Author Luv2dance Posted May 14, 2010 Author Posted May 14, 2010 It is a biggie. To some extent, I think sexual attraction comes from repeated positive sexual experiences with a person. To that end: Being coy here, but that button is between your legs What if you just think about what you need to think about to get hot, give yourself the stimulation you need (while he touches you there and elsewhere), maybe watch some porn or read erotica together, and just enjoy your sexuality in his company? It doesn't have to be him turning you on. Just be super turned on with him, and the associations will follow. You have some great thoughts and I would love to watch porn or read erotica with him. However, I think he would find this embarrassing and too "erotic". I know that sounds ridiculous but he is just very reserved when it comes to sex. I have said before how we have lacked communication in this area and that is slowly changing so maybe his views of what is "acceptable" will change also. This is the man who didn't perform oral on me til we had been married for 15 yrs. The MC has suggested that when we think about doing something we do the opposite from what we've always done (not just in the bedroom) but just to change things up in general.
Author Luv2dance Posted May 14, 2010 Author Posted May 14, 2010 Would I marry a person I'm not particularly attracted too, though? No, because I still think that physical attraction has to be there 100% for the marriage to survive on the long run... I find my wife very attractive still (despite our problems) and that's one of the reasons why I decided to stay... although I don't get to see her body often enough... In hindsight I would have to agree with you b/c when you have issues with personality, and just everyday life you need the physical to fall back on. I hate making it all about sex b/c while that is an issue that really isn't all it is about. That's just one that can be worked on quickly and hey at least it's enjoyable to practice! I don't think I am repulsed by him but there are times when he will rub my back and it is very annoying.
rewe4reel Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 I could be this womans husband, except I like sex and desired it with her. I have no illusions that Ill be able to find a woman who can be happy with me That is why I will be buying a shotgun today to end all the pain . I hope my kids understand someday... Plowman....STOP. You are very depressed, SEEK MEDICAL ATTENTION IMMEDIATELY. Life is a gift, if you can't live for yourself, live for others. You can get through this but it sounds like you need some help which you can't get on a message board! There IS hope!
rewe4reel Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 Wow, without a doubt, glad to know one size fits all in your mind! It really doesn't, everyone is an individual. I guess looking at it from your viewpoint I have been emotionally abusing him for our entire marriage. From your viewpoint, you have not? I did have doubts before we married and yes I still married him. Now you are changing what you said before. Lots of people have "doubts" about getting married, and overcome them. That's not the same thing as telling your husband that "you never loved him"! I remember feeling lonely on my wedding day at my reception and that is not rewritten history. This is also a different emotion or statement. Feeling lonely is not the same thing as not being in love with one's spouse. You had "doubts", "felt lonely," "never really loved your husband." Those are three separate things. I'm not sure any of this has anything to do with your husband. Maybe you would have felt this way with anyone that you had married? I freely admit to being wrong at not admitting my feelings earlier, however at several points in our marriage we have had disscussions about how I felt, so this is not all new to him. OK, but whatever you were feeling, you made a decision that you wanted to get married in spite of those doubts. You haven't really mentioned anything about your husband that would indicate he's in any way, a bad spouse. He's the same person that you married. Basically he was "good enough" for you, but now he's not "good enough." I am not a ball breaking, nagging wife nor do I want to be! I want to be a self assured person who loves and is loved completely. That's very easy. Your husband already loves you. You need to make the decision to love your husband and then follow through on that decision. Love him for his strengths and love him for his weaknesses. Every human being has plusses and minuses. About the only thing lacking seems to be in the sex department. You're an intelligent woman, there are plenty of things you could do to get things jiggy. You have a husband who needs more motivation to be sexual with him. If you loved him more, and tried harder to love him more, you would be able to provide the motivation for him to be more sexual with you. His personality is not aggressive. Don't expect that to change. You will have to take the initiate in this area. But first you have to make up your mind to love your husband, or else you're just wasting your time, and his time. Have I had an affair NO, do I want to have one NO, but you've already decided that is true so don't know why I'm wasting my breath. However, I do see (esp after reading on LS) the fact that it does happen and this is part of the reason I am taking proactive steps to prevent it. You're an unhappily married woman who has fallen out of love with your husband. You love him but you are not in love with him. You are detaching emotionally from your husband, and the process seems rather far along already. An affair is inevitable. I do not believe that you have not at least fantasized about having one. Again, there have been mistakes made on both ends of my marriage and I freely admit fault to not having been perfect. If I could change the past I would, well no I wouldn't b/c I have wonderful children, so all I can do is change the future and that is what I am working on. No one is perfect. You have what sounds like a very good husband. If you want him to be more sexual with you, then you need to be more sexually enticing. If you do not really love him and have disconnected with him emotionally, and therefore the thought of being sexual with him in any meaningful way is distasteful to you, then for all intents and purposes your marriage is already over and cannot be saved. You cannot and should not force yourself to be sexual with someone to whom you are not really attracted and whom you have never really loved.
xxoo Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 You have some great thoughts and I would love to watch porn or read erotica with him. However, I think he would find this embarrassing and too "erotic". I know that sounds ridiculous but he is just very reserved when it comes to sex. I have said before how we have lacked communication in this area and that is slowly changing so maybe his views of what is "acceptable" will change also. This is the man who didn't perform oral on me til we had been married for 15 yrs. Too erotic? What is he scared of? Now I'm wondering if something bad happened to him as a child..... It sounds like his sexual hangups are standing in the way of your sexual enjoyment with him. Has he ever had the opportunity to see you just wild with pleasure? He probably has no idea what he is missing! In hindsight I would have to agree with you b/c when you have issues with personality, and just everyday life you need the physical to fall back on. IME, it doesn't work that way. I'm not speaking about my H here, but other men I've been attracted to....bad behavior can just kill the attraction for me. If there were general issues with personality and everyday life, I can't see falling back on the physical.
Author Luv2dance Posted May 14, 2010 Author Posted May 14, 2010 Plowman....STOP. You are very depressed, SEEK MEDICAL ATTENTION IMMEDIATELY. Life is a gift, if you can't live for yourself, live for others. You can get through this but it sounds like you need some help which you can't get on a message board! There IS hope! I have been thinking about this ALL day!!! Forget my silly marriage problems...I really hope you have gotten some help Plowman!! There is ALWAYS a reason to live!!
Author Luv2dance Posted May 14, 2010 Author Posted May 14, 2010 (edited) Too erotic? What is he scared of? Now I'm wondering if something bad happened to him as a child..... It sounds like his sexual hangups are standing in the way of your sexual enjoyment with him. Has he ever had the opportunity to see you just wild with pleasure? He probably has no idea what he is missing! IME, it doesn't work that way. I'm not speaking about my H here, but other men I've been attracted to....bad behavior can just kill the attraction for me. If there were general issues with personality and everyday life, I can't see falling back on the physical. Don't have a lot of time right now to but will say I don't think anything happened to him as a child, but he did grow up in a conservative christian home and he stayed true to the values his parents taught him. They are a sweet family but very reserved and sex was not something that was talked about. He did "mess" around with a few girls before we married but did not have intercourse. I have found out recently that he had one oral experience before me that wasn't good and this is why he didn't with me. He doesn't know how comfortably to take the lead and still has some views that we need to see if we can expand. I did rent a soft erotica movie while I was pregnant (b/c I was so horny during that time), and he just wasn't impressed. I do see your point about killing the attraction and you may be right. I just feel like if there was more of a physical attraction some of the rest would be easier to handle. ETA...I think he has finally started seeing me wild with pleasure with the oral and he has commented on how he likes to see me squirm...is that TMI, lol Edited May 14, 2010 by Luv2dance
Samantha0905 Posted May 15, 2010 Posted May 15, 2010 Luv2dance, I can so relate to EVERYTHING you have said. It's so difficult when your husband is someone you love, are friends with, have raised children with, etc. I know you love him very much. I am still wondering if sexual attraction can be created when you don't have that chemistry with him. I also think it's such a mistake to not have sex before marrying. I wish I had never agreed to that and, for that matter, think people shouldn't get married until they've lived on their own and dated different people for a while. I'm thinking around 30 may be the optimal marrying age -- although, I obviously don't have an exact age. I think it's a recipe for disaster to marry someone at such a young age, not have sex until the honeymoon, etc. Having said that, I am now wondering if sexual attraction is something I can forego given all the other things in the marriage which are very good things. I've talked to a lot of single friends and they tell me men like my husband are simply rarely out there. Having been out quite a few times, I can believe it. It is a very scary proposition to think of heading out on my own, and breaking the hearts of my husband and children. Yes, I know they would all recover -- but it would also always effect their worldview in some way. I think it would anyway. Plus, it changes up the dynamics of the future so much. In my mind, we're all supposed to celebrate Christmas, Easter, etc. together for life -- with the family continuing to grow (grandchildren! ) -- that would be such a HUGE thing from which to walk away. I can very well see where walking away would later be considered the biggest mistake I ever made in my life. I am proud of you for working so hard to save your marriage. *hug* And yes, get some IC if you feel you need to. I have to honestly say, however, I'm not sure mine has helped me very much. He can't push the magic button and make me have sexual attraction toward my husband -- and of course, I know he isn't supposed to. It would be nice though!! By the way, there is one poster in this thread who sounds very familiar and uses a lot of circular and crazy reasoning (spiced with a lot of abuse!) if you know what I mean.
rewe4reel Posted May 15, 2010 Posted May 15, 2010 I really don't understand why so many people are so picky about their level of sexual attraction to their spouse. This seems to be more of a problem for women than for men. I am not talking about having a spouse who is obviously physically unattractive in some manner. A lot of women seem to just not be able to be attracted by their own spouse, not because there's anything really wrong with the spouse, but maybe because it IS their spouse. I find my wife very attractive to me, but under other circumstances I could also find many different physical types of women attractive. Maybe not AS attractive but not so unattractive that I would have zero sexual desire. I mean if your spouse is not horribly obese, or horribly ugly, or has some sort of hygiene problem, and otherwise treats you well, what's not to be attracted about? Remember, this is a person you have lived with and chose to marry in the first place--there couldn't have possibly been any "obvious deal breakers" in relation to the physical appearance, or else you simply wouldn't have married that person. You would have said "Ugh too ugly" on the first or second date, or "not attracted to him" on the first or second or third date. You sure as heck wouldn't have married him!
Samantha0905 Posted May 15, 2010 Posted May 15, 2010 Sexual chemistry is not just about physical appearance. There are many men -- and women -- I find very attractive. That doesn't mean I want to have sex with them.
Mr White Posted May 15, 2010 Posted May 15, 2010 I really don't understand why so many people are so picky about their level of sexual attraction to their spouse. This seems to be more of a problem for women than for men. I am not talking about having a spouse who is obviously physically unattractive in some manner. A lot of women seem to just not be able to be attracted by their own spouse, not because there's anything really wrong with the spouse, but maybe because it IS their spouse. I find my wife very attractive to me, but under other circumstances I could also find many different physical types of women attractive. Maybe not AS attractive but not so unattractive that I would have zero sexual desire. I mean if your spouse is not horribly obese, or horribly ugly, or has some sort of hygiene problem, and otherwise treats you well, what's not to be attracted about? Remember, this is a person you have lived with and chose to marry in the first place--there couldn't have possibly been any "obvious deal breakers" in relation to the physical appearance, or else you simply wouldn't have married that person. You would have said "Ugh too ugly" on the first or second date, or "not attracted to him" on the first or second or third date. You sure as heck wouldn't have married him! I second all of the above. I have zero sympathy for their "predicament". If there were major problems, WHY did you marry? If nothing major changed in your spouse after the marriage, clearly the problem is you. If there are interaction/emotional problems that get in the way of attraction, why not resolve them. Etc. The lack of attraction is really the outcome of a failed - or ill-advised - marriage. NOT the cause.
rewe4reel Posted May 15, 2010 Posted May 15, 2010 Sexual chemistry is not just about physical appearance. There are many men -- and women -- I find very attractive. That doesn't mean I want to have sex with them. So then why do people, primarily women, seem to get married to men they have no sexual desire for, and have sex with them for many years, then at some point decide they aren't sexually attracted to them anymore? Why do women get married in the first place to men they have no sexual desire for? AND have sex with them for many years in some cases?
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