Luv2dance Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 I am having a bad day so this is just a vent... I just read Woggles happy marriage thread and now sit in tears! I have LOTS of reasons to be happy with my marriage and it still doesn't seem to be enough. I have a husband who just last night said "I love you more today than I did when we got married" and this is after he had to listen to me say I wasn't sure I loved him when we married. He is as helpful as I need him to be with the kids and the house. We have amazing kids that I love more than anything and I don't want to see them hurt. So WTH is my problem?? The MC is going well and he is trying to "change" some things with regards to our sex life. I want so much to be able to find a spark with him and to see him as my best friend. I know it is a process and there is a chance it can work, but I keep thinking what if it doesn't? I just wish someone could smack some sense into me!!! I know I need to work on me and deal with some issues from my past. The MC doesn't want to do too many IC sessions so that she doesn't know one of us better than the other. Guess I could get her to refer me to someone else... Thanks for allowing me to "talk"
TaraMaiden Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 yeah, right. What if it doesn't? Answer the question. What IF it doesn't? First of all there is nothing written anywhere that states it is absolutely forbidden or illegal to fall out of love with somebody. And once that happens, nothing's going to make you be able to turn back time and reverse the process. I know. After 25 years of a relationship/marriage to a man (having tried everything in the book to keep it going) we called it quits. Secondly, your counsellor isn't there to dictate what she will or won't do, who she will or won't see. If you need to see her more, than she'll have to either see you as requested, or refer you to someone else. She's there to work with you, whatever it takes. And "getting to know one of you more than the other" cuts no ice. Her job isn't to 'know' you. It's to enable you to get to know yourself. She's an enabler, not a curer. She's an arbiter, not a go-between. She's there to provide you with a level playing field, not mow it, fertilise it and keep it in shape. The game is yours, she's just a referee, not a team captain.
Author Luv2dance Posted May 12, 2010 Author Posted May 12, 2010 Thanks Tara...I have always really liked your siggy line!! I suppose the IF's of if it doesn't work out are what scare me somewhat. Being alone being a big one next to turning the world upside down for the girls. We also come from families where everyone is still married and the stigma of divorce does play into my mind. NO one else would understand why I couldn't make it work. As for the therapist I really like her and she will do a few more IC sessions with me if I ask, but I guess since she is the MC she doesn't want to have any reason to be biased.
TaraMaiden Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 While I don't pretend that divorce doesn't have an effect on the children, if you're honest with them, and make them understand these things happen, children recover. And children would prefer to live with two stable and functioning households, rather than one which is a sham and dysfunctional. Especially if they find way down the line that happy families was all a front.... Being alone is not the same as being lonely. When you think about the last time you were on your own, and you devoted your spare time to you, doing what you wanted, when you wanted.... when was the last time you did that by the way.....? It might be time to consider that getting to know yourself and dealing with just you, may not be a bad prospect, entirely.... I'm sorry, I'm not actually trying to convince you to jack it all in. What I'm trying to do is to let you see that the stories you tell yourself about the repercussions should not all be negative and looking at the downside. Everything has a Yang to balance the Yin. You can paint it black if you want to, but that's a lovely backdrop for the stars......
giotto Posted May 13, 2010 Posted May 13, 2010 I am the same... I'm never happy and will never be happy, I suppose... I think I've wasted my entire life, sometimes...
stace79 Posted May 13, 2010 Posted May 13, 2010 Um, maybe you should let go of the Disney bullshyt princess fairy tale. A "spark" isn't what makes a marriage work. I would LOVE to be married to a man who does whatever he can to help out around the house and with the family that you've created. I pray that one day my SO and I will have a relationship based on a true friendship and ACTIONABLE love, not just some fickle spark that will fade in and out over time. Love is action, not words or feelings. And I agree with TaraMaiden -- seek out more counseling on your own and/or have your MC therapist refer you to someone for individual therapy. It is probably better to have a separate individual therapist, as you may be put out by something your MC says in couples sessions and want someone you feel is totally "on your side" and that you can trust with your individual best interests.
giotto Posted May 13, 2010 Posted May 13, 2010 Love is action, not words or feelings. Love is action, words and feelings...
stace79 Posted May 13, 2010 Posted May 13, 2010 Love is action, words and feelings... It's certainly not words, because I've seen men say they love someone and then turn around and murder them three weeks later... I've also seen men and women say they love someone and then go out and f$%& someone else the very same night...
Maxxx Posted May 13, 2010 Posted May 13, 2010 yeah, right. What if it doesn't? Answer the question. What IF it doesn't? First of all there is nothing written anywhere that states it is absolutely forbidden or illegal to fall out of love with somebody. And once that happens, nothing's going to make you be able to turn back time and reverse the process. I know. After 25 years of a relationship/marriage to a man (having tried everything in the book to keep it going) we called it quits. She didn't "fall out of love" with him it sounds like. Sounds like she WAS NOT IN LOVE WITH HIM to start with see the bold in the quote from her I am having a bad day so this is just a vent... I just read Woggles happy marriage thread and now sit in tears! I have LOTS of reasons to be happy with my marriage and it still doesn't seem to be enough. I have a husband who just last night said "I love you more today than I did when we got married" and this is after he had to listen to me say I wasn't sure I loved him when we married. He is as helpful as I need him to be with the kids and the house. We have amazing kids that I love more than anything and I don't want to see them hurt. So WTH is my problem?? The MC is going well and he is trying to "change" some things with regards to our sex life. I want so much to be able to find a spark with him and to see him as my best friend. I know it is a process and there is a chance it can work, but I keep thinking what if it doesn't? I just wish someone could smack some sense into me!!! I know I need to work on me and deal with some issues from my past. The MC doesn't want to do too many IC sessions so that she doesn't know one of us better than the other. Guess I could get her to refer me to someone else... Thanks for allowing me to "talk" My only question to you is WHY? did you get married if you were not sure you loved him... You are not the first woman I have heard say this! Nor do i suspect you will be the last. WTF? And then start a family on top of it.. I have to tell you I am scheduled to get married this July........ And at 40 y/o I am 200% sure that I am madly deeply in love with my soon to be wife and thats after we have been dating for 3 years. I have to tell you it scares the sh@t out of me when I read stuff like this to think that my woman feels any where close to the same as you. I hope she is 100% sure she loves me. This is the kind of thing that puts me on edge I don't doubt myself but I have seen any number of times that people get married because they don't want to be alone (Is that why you got married to this guy in the first place?) NOT because they are "In love" From what you are saying you should be thankful that you have a husband that sees to be willing to do anything for you to make it work. Sorry for my rant I am a bit on edge myself with a wedding less then 2 months away
giotto Posted May 13, 2010 Posted May 13, 2010 It's certainly not words, because I've seen men say they love someone and then turn around and murder them three weeks later... Words as in "communication"...
TaraMaiden Posted May 13, 2010 Posted May 13, 2010 She didn't "fall out of love" with him it sounds like. Sounds like she WAS NOT IN LOVE WITH HIM to start with see the bold in the quote from her No, she said she wasn't sure she loved him when they married. Which to me implies there's a possibility she was - only perhaps not as much as one would expect. She's now wondering where even that uncertainty has gone...... (. . .) I have to tell you it scares the sh@t out of me when I read stuff like this to think that my woman feels any where close to the same as you. I hope she is 100% sure she loves me. This really isn't the OP's problem. This is your problem and one I completely agree you should sort out and absolutely verify before you meet her at the altar. This is the kind of thing that puts me on edge I don't doubt myself but I have seen any number of times that people get married because they don't want to be alone (Is that why you got married to this guy in the first place?) NOT because they are "In love" The thing to remember is that people get married for all sorts of different kinds of reasosns. Love isn't enough on its own, and neither is any other single reason. There are also numerous different varied and unpredictable reasons why people break up and divorce later on. And even saying right at the beginning that it couldn't possibly happen to me because I love my future husband/wife 100% doesn't pre-empt separation. Even though there are "Lies, damned lies and statistics" the odds are still against people getting married being together 50 years down the line. I divorced at 2 years, and at 23 years. I'm into my third seriously intense relationship - but I'm not heading for the altar any time soon..... From what you are saying you should be thankful that you have a husband that sees to be willing to do anything for you to make it work. No, not so. He already admits he loves her more than when they married. Making it work for him is no effort at all. He's where he wants to be. The admiration should be for the OP who patently does not feel the same, but is willing to do whatever she can to try to re-kindle something, even if she currently feels there's little in her that feels that committed. If anyone's doing the work - she is. Sorry for my rant I am a bit on edge myself with a wedding less then 2 months away I would hope that edge is heavily tempered and well balanced with a feeling of joy, eager anticipation and happiness at the prospect of the wedding... and all that will follow. Marriage isn't the culmination of a relationship. It's the beginning of a lifetime commitment. I wish you well.
Holding-On Posted May 13, 2010 Posted May 13, 2010 It's certainly not words, because I've seen men say they love someone and then turn around and murder them three weeks later... I've also seen men and women say they love someone and then go out and f$%& someone else the very same night... I understand where you are coming from but I am with Giotto on this one. Talking to your lover (spouse) in kind tone and with loving passion and compliments certainly has the same affect as loving caresses and other actions. On the flip side berating them (erm, guilty ) and putting her/him down will be as negative as actions. So we are talking about words as creating/keeping loving feelings as opposed to being proof positive that one human being really loves another. Words can be love in action. Sorry for the T/J. OP I don't know what to say. I'd try and make it work. Clearly your husband loves you in the conventional sense. This has to be very hard on him too. All you can do is be kindly honest.
Maxxx Posted May 13, 2010 Posted May 13, 2010 I would hope that edge is heavily tempered and well balanced with a feeling of joy, eager anticipation and happiness at the prospect of the wedding... and all that will follow. Marriage isn't the culmination of a relationship. It's the beginning of a lifetime commitment. I wish you well. Thanks for your well wishes I am happy and have lots of joy....... I don't mean to take this from the OP but I will comment on one thing you said...... I suspect if you truly felt (as well as many other divorced couples) that marriage was a "Lifetime" commitment you would not have been divorced after two years... What unless 2 years is a lifetime. If everyone truly thought marriage was a lifetime commitment the divorce rate in the USA would be allot lower. I have no illusions that this marriage I am getting into is going to ALL be a bed of roses. It takes lots of hard work on both parties to stay in a good marriage.
TaraMaiden Posted May 13, 2010 Posted May 13, 2010 The first marriage was a huge mistake. I was way too young, and he wasn't a legally honest person.... incarceration changes both people.... I thought my second marriage was definitely it. We had the whole nuptial mass, the works. It was an absolutely wonderfully perfect day.... let's just say we switched canoes mid-steam and got caught in different currents....
Maxxx Posted May 13, 2010 Posted May 13, 2010 The first marriage was a huge mistake. I was way too young, and he wasn't a legally honest person.... incarceration changes both people.... I thought my second marriage was definitely it. We had the whole nuptial mass, the works. It was an absolutely wonderfully perfect day.... let's just say we switched canoes mid-steam and got caught in different currents.... Got it! that is a shame
rewe4reel Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 I am having a bad day so this is just a vent... I just read Woggles happy marriage thread and now sit in tears! I have LOTS of reasons to be happy with my marriage and it still doesn't seem to be enough. I have a husband who just last night said "I love you more today than I did when we got married" and this is after he had to listen to me say I wasn't sure I loved him when we married. You said that to him? He should have yelled at you. His mistake was being nice to you in response to your being emotionally abusive to him that way. You don't respect him and you don't fear him. That's why you're unhappy. You want a man who dominates you. Not a "nice guy." <i> He is as helpful as I need him to be with the kids and the house.</i> Your hubbie's a chump, and where has it gotten him? A wife who doesn't think she loves him and actually tells him that to his face. Total disrespect. But neither you nor he have put cause and effect together. The reason that you don't love or respect him is because he's so "nice" and "helpful" to you. That's not what you really want. Since he's not giving you what you really want, you don't respect him, and you don't love him. <i>We have amazing kids that I love more than anything and I don't want to see them hurt. So WTH is my problem??</i> Your husband is a wimp. That's what your problem is. <i>The MC is going well and he is trying to "change" some things with regards to our sex life. </i> That figures. He doesn't excite you in the sack either. He's not a dominating masculine presence in your life. He's your "girlfriend." <i>I want so much to be able to find a spark with him and to see him as my best friend.</i> If you really mean this, then get some fur lined handcuffs, kinky lingerie, and tell him to tie you up and ravish you in a simulated rape fantasy. You need to be spanked honey. That'll provide a little bit of spark. <i> I know it is a process and there is a chance it can work, but I keep thinking what if it doesn't? </i> Well then you'll just have to pursue that extramarital relationship with Bob in accounting you've been mulling over for the past six months. But then who could blame you? <i>I just wish someone could smack some sense into me!!!</i> Lord knows I'm trying but something tells me you're not a very good listener. I know I need to work on me and deal with some issues from my past. Yes, you probably need some "space" too. The MC doesn't want to do too many IC sessions so that she doesn't know one of us better than the other. Guess I could get her to refer me to someone else... Thanks for allowing me to "talk" Sigh. What is wrong with people these days?
Holding-On Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 You said that to him? He should have yelled at you. His mistake was being nice to you in response to your being emotionally abusive to him that way. You don't respect him and you don't fear him. That's why you're unhappy. You want a man who dominates you. Not a "nice guy." She may or may not want to be "dominated" but I can imagine most women want to be with a spouse who values himself and will stand up against things that are not right. <i> He is as helpful as I need him to be with the kids and the house.</i> Your hubbie's a chump, and where has it gotten him? A wife who doesn't think she loves him and actually tells him that to his face. Total disrespect. But neither you nor he have put cause and effect together. The reason that you don't love or respect him is because he's so "nice" and "helpful" to you. That's not what you really want. Since he's not giving you what you really want, you don't respect him, and you don't love him. This does raise a good point. OP what do you want out of a man? <i>We have amazing kids that I love more than anything and I don't want to see them hurt. So WTH is my problem??</i> Your husband is a wimp. That's what your problem is. ... etc etc...Despite the way this has been put by the PP, does your husband have strong personal boundaries? Does he let you know when you cross them at the time you cross them?
Author Luv2dance Posted May 14, 2010 Author Posted May 14, 2010 Um, maybe you should let go of the Disney bullshyt princess fairy tale. A "spark" isn't what makes a marriage work. I would LOVE to be married to a man who does whatever he can to help out around the house and with the family that you've created. I pray that one day my SO and I will have a relationship based on a true friendship and ACTIONABLE love, not just some fickle spark that will fade in and out over time. Love is action, not words or feelings. And I agree with TaraMaiden -- seek out more counseling on your own and/or have your MC therapist refer you to someone for individual therapy. It is probably better to have a separate individual therapist, as you may be put out by something your MC says in couples sessions and want someone you feel is totally "on your side" and that you can trust with your individual best interests. I don't think I have unreal fairytale expectations unless just having someone you feel connected to is an unreal expectation. I do believe love is an action but you have to have feelings to go along with those as some point or you are just faking it. I also want a best friend & while we make good parenting partners, best friends we are not. My only question to you is WHY? did you get married if you were not sure you loved him... You are not the first woman I have heard say this! Nor do i suspect you will be the last. WTF? And then start a family on top of it.. Don't have time for details, but basically I was young and going thru some personal changes and he was the opposite from what I had always looked for in a man. I have always been insecure and have low self esteem and didn't realize at the time that I was overlooking some pretty core things I wanted in a spouse. We didn't have sex before marriage (mostly his choice) and I do believe it is a lifetime commitment or I wouldn't still be here fighting.
Author Luv2dance Posted May 14, 2010 Author Posted May 14, 2010 Well if you go back and read some of my other threads I have discussed the fact that I know he is a beta male and I know this is a lot of our problem....but I'll make a few comments. You said that to him? He should have yelled at you. His mistake was being nice to you in response to your being emotionally abusive to him that way. You don't respect him and you don't fear him. That's why you're unhappy. You want a man who dominates you. Not a "nice guy." How is it emotionally abusive to be honest with someone? Is it better to continue to give false hope and say things that you know in your heart aren't true?? <i> He is as helpful as I need him to be with the kids and the house.</i> Your hubbie's a chump, and where has it gotten him? A wife who doesn't think she loves him and actually tells him that to his face. Total disrespect. But neither you nor he have put cause and effect together. The reason that you don't love or respect him is because he's so "nice" and "helpful" to you. That's not what you really want. Since he's not giving you what you really want, you don't respect him, and you don't love him. He is a very nice guy and yes I would like him to be more dominate, but I know this is not his personality and he is very content with himself. I don't think you can change the core of who someone is... <i>We have amazing kids that I love more than anything and I don't want to see them hurt. So WTH is my problem??</i> Your husband is a wimp. That's what your problem is. <i>The MC is going well and he is trying to "change" some things with regards to our sex life. </i> That figures. He doesn't excite you in the sack either. He's not a dominating masculine presence in your life. He's your "girlfriend." <i>I want so much to be able to find a spark with him and to see him as my best friend.</i> If you really mean this, then get some fur lined handcuffs, kinky lingerie, and tell him to tie you up and ravish you in a simulated rape fantasy. You need to be spanked honey. That'll provide a little bit of spark. Sounds great...except I have no rape fantasy (got that in real life, wasn't too fun). I do want him to be more aggressive in bed hence the MC and sex therapy. <i> I know it is a process and there is a chance it can work, but I keep thinking what if it doesn't? </i> Well then you'll just have to pursue that extramarital relationship with Bob in accounting you've been mulling over for the past six months. But then who could blame you? <i>I just wish someone could smack some sense into me!!!</i> Lord knows I'm trying but something tells me you're not a very good listener. Thanks for your helpful advice...you won't believe me but I do agree with a lot of what you've said I just wouldn't have said it such a nasty tone! Yes, you probably need some "space" too. Sigh. What is wrong with people these days?
Author Luv2dance Posted May 14, 2010 Author Posted May 14, 2010 etc etc...Despite the way this has been put by the PP, does your husband have strong personal boundaries? Does he let you know when you cross them at the time you cross them? NO, he really doesn't he is a very laid back, non confrontational person who doesn't express emotions. We are dealing with this in MC and both know that is not a good way to deal with a relationship.
rewe4reel Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 How is it emotionally abusive to be honest with someone? Is it better to continue to give false hope and say things that you know in your heart aren't true?? You're not being honest with him. You are without a doubt either having an affair right now (EA or PA), have had one in the past, or are seriously contemplating having one. Have you been honest with him about that? Women in your situation invariably rewrite their marital history to justify having an affair, because they get bored with their marriages, and they're selfish. Besides, if you're saying you've basically been lying to him for your entire marriage about your feelings towards him, then that means you've been emotionally abusing him for your entire marriage, if not right now. So take your pick.
Author Luv2dance Posted May 14, 2010 Author Posted May 14, 2010 How is it emotionally abusive to be honest with someone? Is it better to continue to give false hope and say things that you know in your heart aren't true?? You're not being honest with him. You are without a doubt either having an affair right now (EA or PA), have had one in the past, or are seriously contemplating having one. Have you been honest with him about that? Women in your situation invariably rewrite their marital history to justify having an affair, because they get bored with their marriages, and they're selfish. Besides, if you're saying you've basically been lying to him for your entire marriage about your feelings towards him, then that means you've been emotionally abusing him for your entire marriage, if not right now. So take your pick. Wow, without a doubt, glad to know one size fits all in your mind! I guess looking at it from your viewpoint I have been emotionally abusing him for our entire marriage. I did have doubts before we married and yes I still married him. I remember feeling lonely on my wedding day at my reception and that is not rewritten history. I freely admit to being wrong at not admitting my feelings earlier, however at several points in our marriage we have had disscussions about how I felt, so this is not all new to him. I am not a ball breaking, nagging wife nor do I want to be! I want to be a self assured person who loves and is loved completely. Have I had an affair NO, do I want to have one NO, but you've already decided that is true so don't know why I'm wasting my breath. However, I do see (esp after reading on LS) the fact that it does happen and this is part of the reason I am taking proactive steps to prevent it. Again, there have been mistakes made on both ends of my marriage and I freely admit fault to not having been perfect. If I could change the past I would, well no I wouldn't b/c I have wonderful children, so all I can do is change the future and that is what I am working on.
Author Luv2dance Posted May 14, 2010 Author Posted May 14, 2010 I could be this womans husband, except I like sex and desired it with her. I have no illusions that Ill be able to find a woman who can be happy with me That is why I will be buying a shotgun today to end all the pain . I hope my kids understand someday... Plowman...I really hope you are not serious!!! There is never a good reason to end your life and no your kids will NEVER understand why! I am sure there is more to life than just marriage and there are many women in the world looking for a nice guy! I am sorry for whatever you have been through but please find someone to talk to in real life!!
plowman Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 L2d No one is looking for a nice guy beta male... you know that and yes Im serious
xxoo Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 I don't think I have unreal fairytale expectations unless just having someone you feel connected to is an unreal expectation. I do believe love is an action but you have to have feelings to go along with those as some point or you are just faking it. I also want a best friend & while we make good parenting partners, best friends we are not. Lots of couples are happy, loving, and functional without being best friends. If you need a best friends person, cultivate that outside the marriage with a woman friend. If you put that expectation on your H, and he just can't meet that need, you will always be disappointed. I wonder how you can not feel connected to a sweet, loving person who helps around the house and is a great father to your children? Why aren't those actions endearing him to you? What specifically are you looking for in connection? Is it a conversation need? A shared hobby need? A sexual need?
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