When is it ok to have an affair?

[jennie-jennie]

I don't understand how it is possible to be a "reformed" OW and remain in the affair. Doesn't that negate the definition of "reformed"?

Because you are compromising your morals by being in the affair. You do in fact believe you are living in a sinful manner. Still you are doing it.

[jennie-jennie]

The same is true, for me, as far as the "victim" of the affair. How does the BS feel about the affair? Everything is good? Just part of the culture? If so, why all the trouble to keep the betrayal a secret?

 

But I have been the BS many times. My morals were the same now as then. I judged the OW of my SOs according to the same morals that I judge myself by today. I considered it my SO's responsibility to be faithful to me, not theirs. Many of these OW were acquaintances of mine. Perhaps it is part of the culture in my country to not put the blame and the responsibility on the OW, but on the WS.

[donnamaybe]

But I have been the BS many times. My morals were the same now as then.

 

And perhaps your judgment is the same now as it was then as well.

 

Just something to think about. Not trying to get a dig. I hope you know that.

[donnamaybe]

Agreed.

 

Is that twice in one WEEK?!

[jennie-jennie]

And perhaps your judgment is the same now as it was then as well.

 

Just something to think about. Not trying to get a dig. I hope you know that.

 

We're fine.

 

Or my morals are the same now as then. Which would mean my morals are not situational, but morals that differ from many on LS.

[donnamaybe]

We're fine.

 

Or my morals are the same now as then. Which would mean my morals are not situational, but morals that differ from many on LS.

 

Good.

 

But I didn't mean your morals. I meant your judgment in people.

[grogster]

Agreed. If it makes me happy, then it must be right...regardless of how others are affected.

 

And that is how "morals" are defined by some people. True morality refers directly to what is right and wrong, regardless of what people think.

 

Moral relativism is one thing; moral solipsism quite another. If my happiness and fulfilment is the measure of all things, regardless of the harm my behavior causes others, then anything is permitted so long as I benefit in one form or another. I have a moral calculus of one.

 

This radical individualism, however, ignores social and civic obligations, or any other societal/individual interests but the actor's. This anomic egoism, if adopted on a large scale, would wreck havoc in society as island egos compete for food, sex and other goods regardless of ownership, custom and mores. Life becomes a war of competing interests as everyone takes what makes them happy without regard to the rights and interests of others: a Hobbseian war of all against all.

 

We become a society of moral toddlers hellbent on taking what we want regardless of the rights, interets and concerns of others on the Hobbseian playground.

 

When the rapacious "I" becomes sovereign, conflict and disorder follow close behind.

[jennie-jennie]

Good.

 

But I didn't mean your morals. I meant your judgment in people.

 

Not quite following you now. I was a little hesitant when I used the word "judge" in my post earlier. What I meant was that I applied the same moral norms to the OW of my SOs as I do to myself today. What I allow myself as an OW I allowed them. If they had a romantic interest in my SO, I did not expect them to take me into consideration, just as I do not take the BS in my case into consideration.

[grogster]

I've seen this type of viewpoint on LS a LOT - sadly enough.

 

I know. Been there; done that.

[JamesM]

I've seen this type of viewpoint on LS a LOT - sadly enough.

 

I know. Been there; done that.

 

That is because many of us (even if we believe we don't think this way) believe that we are the star. It is like the movie The Truman Show. Many of us think that the world was created for our convenience and for our life.

[jennie-jennie]

You were a BS twice and now with a man who has been cheating on his wife for four years.

 

I'm just concerned that maybe you are too trusting and being taken advantage of because of that openness of heart.

 

Probably more like I come from a dysfunctional family and tend to choose dysfunctional partners.

[Dexter Morgan]

After all, I think we can all agree that it's not right to commit murder, but perhaps it's okay in self defense. In that case, I can see where morals would be relative, not absolute. But I personally have a hard time extending this to infidelity.

 

Thoughts?

 

you are going to get all kinds that try to justify an affair.

 

killing someone in self-defense would correlate to leaving someone rather than having an affair.

 

self-defense is justified....affairs are not.

[dreamingoftigers]

Probably more like I come from a dysfunctional family and tend to choose dysfunctional partners.

 

Quite frankly those who come from dysfunctional families are also more likely to be dysfunctional partners as well as choose them.

 

I don't say this to be judgmental, I too come from a dysfunctional family and have developed many dysfunctional habits that caused damage in my relationship.

[jennie-jennie]

Quite frankly those who come from dysfunctional families are also more likely to be dysfunctional partners as well as choose them.

 

I don't say this to be judgmental, I too come from a dysfunctional family and have developed many dysfunctional habits that caused damage in my relationship.

 

Of course. I did not in any way mean to state that I was any better than my partners, rather the opposite, that we both/all come from dysfunctional families and thus are struggling with these patterns.

[xxoo]

What I allow myself as an OW I allowed them. If they had a romantic interest in my SO, I did not expect them to take me into consideration, just as I do not take the BS in my case into consideration.

 

I understand holding your partner primarily responsible for betrayal.

 

What I don't understand is feeling no consideration and compassion for the (ongoing) betrayed spouse and children. Frankly, it seems cold.

[jennie-jennie]

I understand holding your partner primarily responsible for betrayal.

 

What I don't understand is feeling no consideration and compassion for the (ongoing) betrayed spouse and children. Frankly, it seems cold.

 

Who said I don't have compassion for the BS? All I said is that I am not altruistic enough to put her needs before mine.

 

The children will have their father whether he is married or divorced to their mom.

[bentnotbroken]

Who said I don't have compassion for the BS? All I said is that I am not altruistic enough to put her needs before mine.

 

The children will have their father whether he is married or divorced to their mom.

 

 

This is true, but will they have a relationship with him? I was watching Dr. Phil today, and he had the adult children of a man who cheated on their mother. They love him. They just don't respect him. They want him in there lives but not with the OW who hurt their mother so badly. Dr. Phil told them that his years of being a good father shouldn't be whipped out by the bad choices of the last couple of years but they get to decide the terms in which he will be allowed to re-enter their lives.

 

I see it with my own children. Love does not equal respect or wanting to maintain a relationship with a parent(as in OW case with the children and the twisted BS) that the children view as untrustworthy or disrespectful toward them.

 

Divorced he would stand a chance of regaining respect, but at the rate he is maturing they will become adults before he will, then all his chances will be gone.

[xxoo]

The children will have their father whether he is married or divorced to their mom.

 

He'd be a father if he divorced or stayed married to his mom.

 

How much of a father is he in his years of refusing to choose? Staying technically married, but spending all possible time out of the family home to sustain the affair?

 

It is the affair that betrays the children, not divorce.

[jennie-jennie]

He'd be a father if he divorced or stayed married to his mom.

 

How much of a father is he in his years of refusing to choose? Staying technically married, but spending all possible time out of the family home to sustain the affair?

 

It is the affair that betrays the children, not divorce.

 

It is he who chooses to keep our relationship an affair. That is not my doing. He does feel it is better for the children to stay married and have an affair than to get a divorce. The children are a large factor in his staying married.

 

He is a very good father by the way, and has very good relationships with all of his children.

[IronMaiden]

Using the idea that its ok for me to do it because my "morals" are different from theirs. Is stupid! You could say the same thing if you wanted to kill someone!!

 

 

Exactly. Taking that idea to its illogical conclusion, one could say,"I have no moral imperative against taking out an OW who slept with my husband", right?

[jennie-jennie]

Exactly. Taking that idea to its illogical conclusion, one could say,"I have no moral imperative against taking out an OW who slept with my husband", right?

 

Well, we all know that honor killings are accepted moral code in some parts of the world. I do not agree with this, but this is another example of moral relativism.

 

So if a BS really had the moral code before becoming a BS that killing the OW/OM is morally correct (so it is not in the heat of the moment), then yes, this would be an example of moral relativism. Although he/she would have to deal with the law enforcement since it is illegal, which sleeping with somebody else's spouse is not.

[Owl]

It is he who chooses to keep our relationship an affair. That is not my doing. He does feel it is better for the children to stay married and have an affair than to get a divorce. The children are a large factor in his staying married.

 

True, it is his choice. It is also you who chooses to continue the relationship in light of his decision.

 

He is a very good father by the way, and has very good relationships with all of his children.

 

Here's where many will disagree with you. Children learn relationships from their parents...he's teaching his (by his own example) that it's ok to cheat in a relationship, lie to your partner (their mom), and otherwise do what makes you feel good, rather than attempt to work out or end the relationship appropriately.

 

Not good parenting from MY viewpoint at least.

 

Nor is it a garauntee that he'll still have a good relationship with his kids once they find out about his infidelity/affair with you. My kids were LIVID with my wife when they learned about hers.

[reboot]

My kids were LIVID with my wife when they learned about hers.

 

Mine too. I forgave her. I'm not so sure they have.

[bentnotbroken]

Mine too. I forgave her. I'm not so sure they have.

 

 

Mine got physical after the anger set in. But they are still dealing with the lack of respect.

[dreamingoftigers]

My kids were LIVID with my wife when they learned about hers.

 

I still want nothing to do with my father and he has been doing some serious work on himself in the last year, finally. I will probably never want something to do with him. I know that OWoman said she was happy when her father found new love because her mother had wrecked her dignity with alcohol long ago. Does this mean that having an affair is okay when the partner being cheated on is not "up to par?" What if it was your mother who had cheated? And why could your father no simply leave?

 

I find it odd the the OW often feel that they bear no responsibility.

The same as I find it odd that some people in the other threads think that viewing porn does not mean they condone the actions taken to make it, no matter how disgusting or I think one of the other examples was eating an endangered species at a restaurant and how it isn't the fault of the person that orders it.

 

I think it is very odd that there is a disconnect between supply and demand. If there wasn't someone to participate in the affair, there wouldn't be one. If people didn't put in such a demand for pornography then young women wouldn't be abused making it and if there were no demand for shark-fin soup, then a restaurant would have no incentive to serve it.

 

I would not get involved with a married man because to do so would be participating in a moral activity, like keeping watch so your friend can steal something. No you are not doing the stealing but you are watching and participating.