Lipsy10 Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 I've just come across this article about a book by Lori Gottlieb called Marry him : the case for settling for second best. - Miss Gottlieb, a 40-year-old single mother, admitted in her book that she wished she had settled for any of the "perfectly acceptable but uninspiring" men she rejected during her search for the perfect man. And she claimed the notion of "The One" was a myth, accusing romantic fiction and films of betraying women by encouraging them to hold out for true love. "We're conditioned to crave that big love," she wrote in her book. "It's painful how pervasive the fantasy is that `The One' is out there. "We grew up idealising marriage, but if we'd had a more realistic understanding of its cold, hard benefits, we might have done things differently. "So we walked away from uninspiring relationships that might have made us happy." Instead, settling for Mr Second Best could make women happier in the long run, she said. - This book supposedly caused outrage among women everywhere. I have to say I agree with most of what she is saying. Hollywood rom-coms do give us unrealistic expectations of men/relationships. We grow up listening to fairytales about prince charming sweeping us off our feet. I know alot of women searching for Mr. Perfect. Accept Mr. Perfect doesn't exist because no one is perfect, Life is not perfect. I'm not saying you should marry whoever comes along but if you do meet a guy who ticks 6/7 out of 10 boxes then why not build a great life with him?! There are plenty of single childless middleaged women like Lori who never met their 10 out of 10 guy and now wish they settled. By the time we are 35 - 45 most decent guys are taken. Theres also the dreaded ticking clock issue. Lets face it women have a shelf life when it comes to having babies. Is in not better to settle for a good guy who can give you affection, companionship and a family than to hold out for that earth shattering love that will probably never come?? At what point should a women stop believing the fantasy and start getting real?
Ihavenoidea Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 I HATE when women talk about how they know what they want and they wont settle. I usually just leave because I'm not going to waste time with someone who has an ideal image of what they want, knowing that I probably wont meet half of it. There is 6 billion people on the planet. There will ALWAYS be someone better out there. In the end everyone settles, there is always someone smarter, more attactive, more of a connection, whatever. Someone else always has more of what you want, but that grass is always greener on the otherside. If you aren't content with what you have you will never be content with what you can get and its ok to be content. If you are happy with that person, then I say why not.
Jersey Shortie Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 Yes, women should settle for second best (at least "second best" as defined by this one person and one book) because one book written by one 40 year old that touts a sado-masochistic-love-attitude toward women under the guise of "tough love" and "reality" claims they should. I digress. There has been a perchant for these kind of books lately that end up with sado-masochistic advice and titles given to women under the guise of "tough love" stances that pretend to be clever and witty and telling the *real* truth when the truth is the reason these books are written and peddled is for one reason only. Which has nothing to do with helping others find love and happiness. It's all about the sale numbers. And titles like "He just isn't into you" and "Marry him: the case for settling for second best" hide under gritty proactivieness when they are really nothing but shells to peddle more unrealistic fluff. I think these kind of books do women more harm then good because they give the advice to the masses to conform to a standard set forth more by the media then anything based on reality. You trade the "fairy-tale" fantasy for something *just* as unrealistic by trying to "scare" women into conforming to a mass product that holds no meaning on a person's individual life experience. And who is this person, and this book to claim that a womans' expectations of life aren't real just because she isn't married or having children at the age that women are expected to? I don't think the reason women are waiting to get married and have kids later in life is because they hold unrealistic expectations. I think alot of it has to do with the technology we have today and atittudes adopted both by women AND men about marriage and children that have changed in the past 20 years. [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT]
Engadget Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 Settling implies there's someone way better out there, which may not even be true.
Author Lipsy10 Posted May 10, 2010 Author Posted May 10, 2010 Jersey shortie And who is this person, and this bilook to claim that a womans' expectations of life aren't real just because she isn't married or having children at the age that women are expected to? I don't think the reason women are waiting to get married and have kids later in life is because they hold unrealistic expectations. I think alot of it has to do with the technology we have today and atittudes adopted both by women AND men about marriage and children that have changed in the past 20 years. This discussion is not about women who are very happy to be single [and more power to them] but women who do want to be in a relationship but cannot find the "perfect guy". Its not about society's expectations of having to be married with children by a certain age but what the woman wants for herself. There are woman out there who miss out on the life they wanted because as ihavenoidea says they always thought "I can do better."
Rorschach Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 I'm 22 young, naive and a hopeless romantic. I'm going to say no, don't settle. Maybe you would be happy in the long run, or this or that or the other thing, but I don't accept 'pretty good' in any facet of my life, financially, career wise, or relationship wise. I don't intend to live an average life, so I'm not about to settle. Besides, I'm a good person, i deserve a deep meaningful love.
Engadget Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 Also if you believe you're settling for second best, then you'll probably never be satisfied. I'd had to be the person that was considered second best, because they may always believe their partner will leave them for someone else.
Jersey Shortie Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 This discussion is not about women who are very happy to be single [and more power to them] but women who do want to be in a relationship but cannot find the "perfect guy". Its not about society's expectations of having to be married with children by a certain age but what the woman wants for herself. There are woman out there who miss out on the life they wanted because as ihavenoidea says they always thought "I can do better." My post had nothing to do with women who are happy to be single. I want to be in a relationship. I want to get married some day and my post still applies. And yes, this book is exactly about society's expectations that women should be married and having kids at a certain age. There are men out there that miss out on things because they also thought "I could do better". This is a mentality that is prone to the human condition, not just the female one. I think books like this are a bunch of BS meant to sell and make money but isn't garned on much truth for an individual's experiences. Now all women are suppose to marry the next guy that gives her the slighest bit of attention because he's nice and pays his bills on time and doesn't beat her and one 40 year old woman who wrote a book is unhappy with her life. I'm sorry but people who buy into these books as mandates on real 'truth" are being just as unrealistic as the fairy tale ending some seem to think women are waiting for. I am not waiting for a fairy tale ending but I am looking for a man I can love an can love me. Does that mean I think he should be without faults? Heck no. Does it mean I am waiting for Mr. Perfect? Nope. Do I think women are holding out for mr. perfect? Not at all. I think the current social climate has women AND men waiting. There are so many more options out there and people of both genders are excersizing that.
SomewhatExperienced Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 I'd have to say that women shouldn't have to settle, in fact no one should. BUT that goes hand in hand that you shouldn't have a list of what it means to be a perfect man that you scroll through every time you date a new guy. The perfect man for a woman, and the perfect woman for a man may take many forms and it may not be what you think it should prior to meeting this person.
WalkInThePark Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 That writer is a nutcase. I remember that I read somewhere that before she decided she should settle, she would refuse to date a guy who liked to watch sports. Come on, she goes from one extreme to the other. First completely stupid expectations who have nothing to do with a succesfull relationship, then grab the first guy with 2 arms and 2 legs because she does not want to be alone. I am 45 which according to some people probably makes me a hopeless case for still finding a partner but I always say that the chance I might marry is small but the chance that I will marry unhappily is even smaller. Why would I settle? I know my qualities. Someone said it very well in a review on the book: I refuse to enter a room of which the ceiling is lower than my height. For my particular situation that means that since I am a warmhearted, intelligent, attractive woman with a good income, I have no intention to settle for some mean, stupid, unattractive guy who has no decent job. Of course life can be more pleasant if you are in a good relationship. But that does not mean that you should just pick no matter what man. It's about love not about charity. I am not going to sponsor Lori by buying that book of hers. Instead I am reading "Meeting your Half-Orange" by Amy Spencer which is a great, encouraging book for singles.
Mr White Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 I often wonder why I almost never hear men wondering if they should "settle" (or shouting from rooftops that "they won't settle". There is just something fckd up about how women approach relationships, and this is how many end alone for no particular reason. As a guy, all that I need is a kind, loving girl with good values/character that I'm attracted to, and that is all that it takes for me to stop looking. She will have all sorts of imperfections, but I won'd care insofar we're having fun together, get along, and love each other. Luckily, my gf is just that. Sure, I can point tens of ways in which she diverges from my imaginary soulmate, but the truth is that all of these are inconsequential. More importantly, I don't feel like I'm settling, since the fundamentals are there. I am probably not all that she ever imagined either, but she seems to love me just the same. This is NOT rocket science, and I'd say that anybody who'd reject a viable partner for no particular legitimate reason or on whatever arbitrary frivolous grounds, deserves to be alone.
Ruby Slippers Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 I often wonder why I almost never hear men wondering if they should "settle" (or shouting from rooftops that "they won't settle". I have. It usually comes up when they are considering dating a fat girl. "Naw, waste of time to 'settle'," they say. If you think you are settling, you'll never be happy. On the other hand, if you are mature and realize that no one is perfect and you're very unlikely to find a perfect prince/princess, your options expand and you can be happier.
Woggle Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 Men never talk about settling because most of us know the difference between fantasy and reality and are realistic about things. Women on the other hand have standards that no mere human man could ever live up to. The idea that any relationship is supposed to be some 24/7 romance movie is not even a part of most men's thought processes.
AD1980 Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 I often wonder why I almost never hear men wondering if they should "settle" (or shouting from rooftops that "they won't settle". There is just something fckd up about how women approach relationships, and this is how many end alone for no particular reason. As a guy, all that I need is a kind, loving girl with good values/character that I'm attracted to, and that is all that it takes for me to stop looking. She will have all sorts of imperfections, but I won'd care insofar we're having fun together, get along, and love each other. Luckily, my gf is just that. Sure, I can point tens of ways in which she diverges from my imaginary soulmate, but the truth is that all of these are inconsequential. More importantly, I don't feel like I'm settling, since the fundamentals are there. I am probably not all that she ever imagined either, but she seems to love me just the same. This is NOT rocket science, and I'd say that anybody who'd reject a viable partner for no particular legitimate reason or on whatever arbitrary frivolous grounds, deserves to be alone. Women are much more status driven then Men in looking for a partner plua they ve been told all the fairytale price charming stories and buy into it.. Allto of Men like the girl next door thign theyres really no male equivalent for women.The average sort oh cute guy to Women isnt high on the totem pole of status.
electricity Posted May 10, 2010 Posted May 10, 2010 I have. It usually comes up when they are considering dating a fat girl. "Naw, waste of time to 'settle'," they say. Women are much more status driven then Men in looking for a partner plua they ve been told all the fairytale price charming stories and buy into it.. If we're going to generalize and say "all women are like this" or "no man thinks like that," then I think these two posts sum up the differences between men and women well. Men look for beauty - they rule out "not good enough" before even starting to date a woman. Women, OTOH, look for qualities that can't easily be seen. Hence, it may be several months into a relationship before she finds something about a man that's a complete dealbreaker. Ultimately though, I think every person is different. I don't have an ideal man in mind and understand that I won't ever find THE perfect man, but will find a man I love enough and who loves me enough to work through our differences together.
alphamale Posted May 11, 2010 Posted May 11, 2010 At what point should a women stop believing the fantasy and start getting real? probably when they leave the womb
MrNate Posted May 11, 2010 Posted May 11, 2010 <------------ Of course you will If we're going to generalize and say "all women are like this" or "no man thinks like that," then I think these two posts sum up the differences between men and women well. Men look for beauty - they rule out "not good enough" before even starting to date a woman. Women, OTOH, look for qualities that can't easily be seen. Hence, it may be several months into a relationship before she finds something about a man that's a complete dealbreaker. Ultimately though, I think every person is different. I don't have an ideal man in mind and understand that I won't ever find THE perfect man, but will find a man I love enough and who loves me enough to work through our differences together.
Mr White Posted May 11, 2010 Posted May 11, 2010 Women are much more status driven then Men in looking for a partner plua they ve been told all the fairytale price charming stories and buy into it.. Allto of Men like the girl next door thign theyres really no male equivalent for women.The average sort oh cute guy to Women isnt high on the totem pole of status. Ha, good point . Well, too bad !
EasyHeart Posted May 11, 2010 Posted May 11, 2010 I think it depends on the woman. There are lots of women with unrealistic expectations. I have one friend who has specific requirements about height, hair/eye color, education, income and the square footage of his house. And if he hasn't got a private plane, forget about it. Women like her need to "settle", ie lower their expectations. But a lot of women (I'd say the majority) are the exact opposite. They stick with complete losers who treat them like crap and basically become a slave to these guys. Those women do NOT need to "settle" -- they've already done way too much of it. They need to raise their expectations.
Eeyore79 Posted May 11, 2010 Posted May 11, 2010 I have some criteria on which I will not compromise - for example, a guy has to have an education, a job, some common decency and intelligence, like animals, want children, be acceptably good in bed, and have at least some things in common with me. I would not consider it to be "settling" if I found a guy with those attributes, but he was imperfect in other ways - for example if he was overweight, or a picky eater, or an avid sports fan. The problem is, too many people think that anyone who diverges from their perfect ideal in any way is not good enough. Of course my perfect man would not be fat or addicted to sports, but I consider such things to be minor compromises if he is otherwise great. What I mean to say is, I am prepared to settle on what I consider to be the minor criteria (such as weight) but not on what I consider to be the major criteria (such as employment and intelligence). If I settled on minor criteria, I wouldn't really feel like I'd settled at all, because the person would still meet my major criteria. Your dream guy is precisely that - you dreamed him up, and he isn't real. Real people aren't perfect, and neither are you - the great guy you settle for will no doubt be settling for you too! I am under no illusions about being perfect - there are many great things about me, but I know that my teeth aren't perfect, I'm slightly fatter than I'd like to be, I can be moany and lazy, I sing badly while pottering around the house, I don't like it if someone sits in my chair without permission, etc. I would hope that someone would be prepared to put up with my minor eccentricities, and even find them cute and lovable, as long as I met their major criteria.
WalkInThePark Posted May 11, 2010 Posted May 11, 2010 As a guy, all that I need is a kind, loving girl with good values/character that I'm attracted to, and that is all that it takes for me to stop looking. She will have all sorts of imperfections, but I won'd care insofar we're having fun together, get along, and love each other. I think most women are looking for exactly the same thing but... WHERE do we find such a man??? As someone said in a review on Gottlieb's book: does she really think that women are so stupid that they don't recognize a man who is "good enough"? We do but the problem is that there are simply not enough "good enough" guys. It is about love and it is about being happy. You can't be happy with someone who is not honest, who is so selfish he can't empathize with his partner's feelings, who does not take care of himself, who is unable to get a decent job, who has no manners and who has an addiction of some sort (alcohol, drugs, porn, sex,...). I have done internetdating for a couple of years and very rarely did I meet a man with who I would consider even a second meeting. My take on this is that now that women are financially independent, we are simply less willing to put up with bad immature behaviour from guys. We have gone to great lenghts to be the best self we can be, on an intellectual, emotional and physical level. And we expect from a man that he does the same. This has nothing to do with him having topmodel looks or a private plane. We don't need that. We want someone with whom we can have a good life which means we don't want someone who is not in our league to drag us down to his miserable level. BTW, I don't have the impression that the women around me are so demanding. On the contrary, I see men around me reject women all the time for very superficial reasons. I see men preferring to be with high maintenance b!tches (sometimes from foreign countries) rather than go for some real, down-to-earth lady...
SpanksTheMonkey Posted May 11, 2010 Posted May 11, 2010 I've just come across this article about a book by Lori Gottlieb called Marry him : the case for settling for second best. - Miss Gottlieb, a 40-year-old single mother, admitted in her book that she wished she had settled for any of the "perfectly acceptable but uninspiring" men she rejected during her search for the perfect man. And she claimed the notion of "The One" was a myth, accusing romantic fiction and films of betraying women by encouraging them to hold out for true love. "We're conditioned to crave that big love," she wrote in her book. "It's painful how pervasive the fantasy is that `The One' is out there. "We grew up idealising marriage, but if we'd had a more realistic understanding of its cold, hard benefits, we might have done things differently. "So we walked away from uninspiring relationships that might have made us happy." Instead, settling for Mr Second Best could make women happier in the long run, she said. - This book supposedly caused outrage among women everywhere. I have to say I agree with most of what she is saying. Hollywood rom-coms do give us unrealistic expectations of men/relationships. We grow up listening to fairytales about prince charming sweeping us off our feet. I know alot of women searching for Mr. Perfect. Accept Mr. Perfect doesn't exist because no one is perfect, Life is not perfect. I'm not saying you should marry whoever comes along but if you do meet a guy who ticks 6/7 out of 10 boxes then why not build a great life with him?! There are plenty of single childless middleaged women like Lori who never met their 10 out of 10 guy and now wish they settled. By the time we are 35 - 45 most decent guys are taken. Theres also the dreaded ticking clock issue. Lets face it women have a shelf life when it comes to having babies. Is in not better to settle for a good guy who can give you affection, companionship and a family than to hold out for that earth shattering love that will probably never come?? At what point should a women stop believing the fantasy and start getting real? All I can say is I'm glad I didn't.. to me it was just finding some one I truly clicked with! Sure there were others before him who prob could have even provided better financially and so on. But that wasn't what I was after I don't think its wrong to wait for the right person for you so yes both men and women should wait and not settle with in reality of course. Some of the lists Ive herd are just ridiculous tho I will say like he must make x amount a year he must be over 6ft under 200 pounds must have a collage education drive a expensive car and so on and so forth now that is shallow..
carhill Posted May 11, 2010 Posted May 11, 2010 After a near decade marriage to someone whose actions, in retrospect, indicated settling, I would opine 'no', a woman should not 'settle' for someone she *feels* is second best because it does a disservice to the man she settles for, a man who does not settle and gives her his 'first best'. She should stay the hell away from such men and never settle and die alone. Thanks
Eeyore79 Posted May 11, 2010 Posted May 11, 2010 Some of the lists Ive herd are just ridiculous tho I will say like he must make x amount a year he must be over 6ft under 200 pounds must have a collage education drive a expensive car and so on and so forth now that is shallow.. Having a college education and some sort of job merely indicates he's reasonably smart and able to provide for a family; I don't think that's an unreasonable requirement, especially if the woman is educated herself. I will also admit to preferring taller guys, because I just happen to find height physically attractive. I'm not so fussed about weight, although being a reasonable weight indicates that he's fit and healthy. What's wrong with wanting an attractive, healthy guy who is able to provide for a family - that's what we're genetically hard-wired to want...
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