Sexual exclusivity in marriage

[schindler]

Yesterday my soon-to-be fiance brought up the topic of having sex outside of marriage to satisfy "needs". He brought it up as an academic conversation, but I'm very old-fashioned in these matters and am scared to death that this will become a real issue someday in my life. Here are his rules:

 

1. the sex cannot be with someone you interact with on a daily basis, like a coworker or a secretary

2. there's no relationship with the person you're satisfying your "needs" with; in fact, it's better that you don't even know their name

3. either of us can satisfy our "needs" but we're not bound by anything to tell each other, even if ther other person asks

 

I know "open marriages" are getting more popular, but my view is that if you can just go to anyone to satisfy one's needs, why get married at all? My boyfriend thinks it would not affect his love for me. He's convinced that he wouldn't care if I did the same. I have always considered love and sex to come together in a marriage and not be exclusive concepts. What are people's views on this? I am concerned and feel that if such "open marriage" concepts ever crops into my marriage I will always, at the back of my head, be questioning myself while hugging my husband if he has just had sex with another woman? What are other people's views on this?

[You Go Girl]

Yesterday my soon-to-be fiance brought up the topic of having sex outside of marriage to satisfy "needs". He brought it up as an academic conversation, but I'm very old-fashioned in these matters and am scared to death that this will become a real issue someday in my life. Here are his rules:

 

1. the sex cannot be with someone you interact with on a daily basis, like a coworker or a secretary

2. there's no relationship with the person you're satisfying your "needs" with; in fact, it's better that you don't even know their name

3. either of us can satisfy our "needs" but we're not bound by anything to tell each other, even if ther other person asks

 

I know "open marriages" are getting more popular, but my view is that if you can just go to anyone to satisfy one's needs, why get married at all? My boyfriend thinks it would not affect his love for me. He's convinced that he wouldn't care if I did the same. I have always considered love and sex to come together in a marriage and not be exclusive concepts. What are people's views on this? I am concerned and feel that if such "open marriage" concepts ever crops into my marriage I will always, at the back of my head, be questioning myself while hugging my husband if he has just had sex with another woman? What are other people's views on this?

 

Don't marry him.

My H (roommate only now) was in open relationships before me. He brought up this idea before we married, then he rejected it, but yet I saw that he kept links to swinging sites on his computer.

Don't marry him.

Because we've been monogamous I suppose, may be partly to blame for his porn addiction. Lies lies and more lies. I can't believe how many times I've been lied to. All from a man who was really a warm affectionate giving person.

Don't marry him.

People who marry have to have the same sexual boundaries. Read the heart-breaking threads on LS. If they don't share basic sexual boundaries, somebody gets hurt, and it will be you, because you are the one that the image of him having sex with somebody else destroys you.

Don't marry him.

Dear, these issues don't go away. They just get worse. This man is either never wired for monogamy, or is too immature to understand it.

Oh, and did I say, don't marry him?

[Eeyore79]

If he's thinking about open relationships and deems them acceptable, he may want one sooner or later. It sounds like he's testing the waters with a view to asking for something like that. I agree; don't marry him.

[jenifer1972]

This is not an academic conversation. He has thought it all out. This is what he wants, and will end up doing, likely behind your back if you disapprove. You don't sound like the type that could make such an arrangement work. (I am not either). Don't marry him.

[Iconoclast]

Go read about open relationships, the only ones that function are when both parties are into it, and they have complete trust in each other. Even then, the risk is high.

He's feeling you out, it'll come up again and again until your trust withers.

Then again, we were not there and don't know him, was it just fun conversation, or do you think he would really like that?

And what do you mean as "satisfy his needs", does he think you fail to satisfy his needs? If that's the case, i'd just end it now, if you're sexually incompatible, high drive / low drive, there will be problems in the future.

[shadowofman]

He is tolerant of open physical relationships, but he is intolerant of emotional relationships. I am the same. This is because marriage, to us, is an emotional connection, not a physical connection. A woman that would be able to do this is extremely rare. Accept the fact that IF you were to enter into an open relationship, you will likely need a level of emotion with your extramarital partners that your husband could not tolerate.

[peterms]

haha

 

"Open" marriages are basically for people who want to be "free" of convential societal rules - yet for some reason they can't find it in themselves to completely let go.

 

like you said, if you want to buck against the norm of physical and emotional commitment to only one person - then don't get married. It's that simple. No need to redefine marriage or invent a new kind.

 

Just tell your boyfriend if he wants to have be able to physically have sex with other women no problem - just that you won't be getting married. If he doubts your emotional love or commitment to him then tell him you are as emotionally comitted to him as he is to you - while you both banging other people from time to time.

[shadowofman]

Just tell your boyfriend if he wants to have be able to physically have sex with other women no problem - just that you won't be getting married.

 

Even people that are not married demand monogamy. He wants someone to be monoamorous with without the monogamy.

[shadowofman]

There are two possible reasons that rule one and two are opposed to emotional attachments.

He may be saying that he, himself, is intolerant of polyamory.

Or, he may be trying to soften the blow to you in a misguided way. It's the "Baby, she means nothing to me" excuse.

 

But apparently women would prefer that men to have some sort of connection to an affair rather than meaningless sex. Makes the man less of a pig. Blew my mind.

[LucreziaBorgia]

He wants to turn you into a legal FWB. Unless you want to be married to someone who clearly wants to f*ck other people, I would not get engaged.

 

The whole 'academic' thing is bullsh*t. Men who don't want to have sex outside of their relationships don't come up with scenarios that will allow for that.

 

Getting married won't change his "need", nor will he ever really put aside that "need" for your benefit.

 

There are men out there who do believe in monogamy. This isn't one of them.

[witabix]

Nothing academic about, he is laying the foundation for the future.

 

In your shoes I would be very sceptical. I may be a cynic but this would be a whole field of red flags to me.

 

Be careful, find out how serious he is about this stuff, or if he really was just shooting the breeze. You know like 'if I win the lottery.....'

 

Good luck...

[xxoo]

3. either of us can satisfy our "needs" but we're not bound by anything to tell each other, even if ther other person asks

 

 

Open marriages aside, is he suggesting that you either should refuse to answer each other's questions, or should lie? Um, HUGE RED FLAG!!!!

 

That is the opposite of "open" marriage, which requires a great deal of trust, communication, and openness.

 

I say you set the academics aside, and have a heartfelt conversation about the kind of marriage you need. Can he be happy and fulfilled in the marriage you envision? If not, find another guy.

[crazycatlady]

Yesterday my soon-to-be fiance brought up the topic of having sex outside of marriage to satisfy "needs". He brought it up as an academic conversation, but I'm very old-fashioned in these matters and am scared to death that this will become a real issue someday in my life. Here are his rules:

 

1. the sex cannot be with someone you interact with on a daily basis, like a coworker or a secretary

2. there's no relationship with the person you're satisfying your "needs" with; in fact, it's better that you don't even know their name

3. either of us can satisfy our "needs" but we're not bound by anything to tell each other, even if ther other person asks

 

I know "open marriages" are getting more popular, but my view is that if you can just go to anyone to satisfy one's needs, why get married at all? My boyfriend thinks it would not affect his love for me. He's convinced that he wouldn't care if I did the same. I have always considered love and sex to come together in a marriage and not be exclusive concepts. What are people's views on this? I am concerned and feel that if such "open marriage" concepts ever crops into my marriage I will always, at the back of my head, be questioning myself while hugging my husband if he has just had sex with another woman? What are other people's views on this?

 

I'm in an open marriage and that would raise red flags for me. Maybe he approached it in a poor way, but it sounds like he doesn't expect needs to be met. We try very hard to meet each other's needs and don't go outside for a need. That to me at least, is part of what makes an open marriage insecure. The openness is fun and games.

 

Plus sex is always better when its with a friend and not a stranger. His rules are geared more for a man then a woman. Women do better knowing their lover, men lucky dogs get off easier and so a stranger isn't a handicap for a lot of men like it is for women.

 

And the lack of openness - not telling - is going to torment you. That's not open, that's asking you not to care while he screws around. Part of the fun of an open marriage is including the partner. If I can't be there, I get to hear about it. When he's talking to someone new I get to see pictures. He lets me know when its happening, makes sure I'm ok with it - sometimes I'm not and I get a chance to say no.

 

But it also all boils down to what are you comfortable with. What can you handle? Doesn't sound like this appeals to you in any way shape or form. And if you can't handle it, maybe ending things with him is the best option. The fact that he doesn't feel the need to tell you if you did this makes me wonder if he would struggle with cheating.

 

CCL

[shadowofman]

Every day, you should tell him about the extra sex and the new partner you banged that day (fibs of course). See how long he can handle it. Haha.

[sally4sara]

I'm not saying an open relationship can never work, but I am saying that it won't likely work between two people with such incompatible needs.

He might have been telling you want kind of marriage he idealizes.

And your struggle with it might be an indication that that kind of relationship isn't one you would be happy with.

It doesn't mean either of you is right or wrong, just that you might not be right for each other.

[Holding-On]

I'm not saying an open relationship can never work, but I am saying that it won't likely work between two people with such incompatible needs.

He might have been telling you want kind of marriage he idealizes.

And your struggle with it might be an indication that that kind of relationship isn't one you would be happy with.

It doesn't mean either of you is right or wrong, just that you might not be right for each other.

 

Listen to this woman, she is wise.

 

I'm in an open marriage, albeit a polyamorous one (more love and emotional connection IS the entire point). This sounds awful to me.

 

I think you need to tell your boyfriend this would never work for you. It is great though that he is at least having conversations with you about monogamy. All too often people marry each other without clear boundaries (uh, no, I don't care for you flirting with other women honey...). However, he seems wrong wrong wrong for you. Or way too immature for marriage yet.

 

I agree 100% about how selfish this idea is. This works GREAT if you like sex without emotion. It seems like he has no idea (empathy?) about how you think. Does he believe that you like sex without emotion? Have you asked him?

 

I'd guess this would never work for you even if you wanted to have other men in your life (because why would you want to have non-fulfilling sex?? which is what it would likely be for you, the woman, if you don't even know the guys name ).

 

but, point for point...

1. I can see how this would avoid sour situations becoming awkward. Ok.

 

2. This sounds like a disaster. Any problems crop up how would you know who to contact? I can't see how you can be sure the person is STD free if you can't even know their name. And who, among the women of the earth, wants to have sex with a man and not even know his name? Very few do and most of them charge money for such enormous inconsideration.

As to you getting men whose name you don't know (! Craigslist?? I mean, how does that even happen??), I won't even go into the safety aspect of it for you. Ask your boyfriend to really think that through. I think he can imagine how scarily uncaring and stupid that idea sounds. At least I hope he can.

 

3. Again this is a disaster. It also sounds disrespectful. And completely, uh, not open.

[sally4sara]

And how could you be sure of personal safety if you're sleeping with guys you haven't even known enough to name them?

 

It just sounds like he isn't concerned with your safety so long as he gets his kicks.

[tnttim]

I didn't have to read far into your post to figure out that your finance was a man. He wants what us men want at some point in our lives, usually when we're teenagers, but some never grow wise.

 

Physical sex with no emotions. I mean look at the rules:

 

1. the sex cannot be with someone you interact with on a daily basis, like a coworker or a secretary

2. there's no relationship with the person you're satisfying your "needs" with; in fact, it's better that you don't even know their name

3. either of us can satisfy our "needs" but we're not bound by anything to tell each other, even if the other person asks

 

What is the difference between what he says, and getting a hooker. He wants his sex life to be a series of one night stands. Sex that is purely physical.

 

Do yourself a favor and read some posts about men not getting enough sex, or men that cheat. You will a glaring similarity between the two, sex with no emotion, just physical.

 

I wouldn't say that your are doomed to the above two outcomes, but your chances are amplified by your BF's attitudes towards sex.

 

You can be the one night stand women to him if you change the sex up once in a while. Dress up, dye your hair, role play, different rooms, different times. There are millions of variations that do not include a 3rd person. But you have to have sex that satisfies your feelings as well, and he has to realize that. He has to realize that sex for a man is completely different from sex for a woman. Men focus on the physical act, their performance, and whether you cum. Which boils down to selfish sex for a woman, it's all about him controlling you, not being in control. Men think we can make any woman cum, when you don't you cum we blame you. We don't realize that it's not always a given, like a man cumming is almost always a given.

 

So in a nutshell..........he wants variation, it's what he is lacking right now. If you give him the variation he craves, he might return the favor by making love to you once in a while, might.

 

If he does make love to you now, which I doubt, then all you have to do is change it up once in a while. Good luck

[schindler]

Thank you everyone for your advice and opinions! They were extremely helpful.

 

The reason I was so startled was that we have had a completely monogamous relationship. At any given point in the day I can tell you exactly where my boyfriend is when he isn't with me. He has never cheated on me and that just isn't his style.... which is why that conversation frightened the hell out of me.

 

I wanted to clarify it all so I turned off the TV last night and told him that we were going to have a talk. I went into the conversation with all avenues mentally explored. Hell, I was ready to end it last night if I had to.

 

Turns out the conversation was purely "academic". Among other interests, he's really into philosophy and psychology and often plays Devil's advocate. Just this time he caught me off-guard on a topic that I am very sensitive and opinionated about. He clarified that the conversation wasn't about us, and that he thought sexual exclusivity was key to a marriage (and I believe him because that's how it has been for the last three and a half years that we have been together, and four since we first started going out).

 

I guess I'm overly sensitive about the issue because we're ready to get married but my man still does not have enough money to buy me the ring that I deserve (and I know that's true because I have access to all our accounts). I feel so bad about questioning his convictions.

 

But thank you everyone for your advice. There are difinitely people that face this situation in reality. I hope they all have the strength to recognise what they can and can't put up with and make their move accordingly.

[You Go Girl]

I'm not buying it. Your H had rules thought out in his head. Now that he knows that you won't go for it--he's pretending it's all theoretical.

[GamerGirl]

I guess I'm overly sensitive about the issue because we're ready to get married but my man still does not have enough money to buy me the ring that I deserve (and I know that's true because I have access to all our accounts). I feel so bad about questioning his convictions.

 

Sorry, not buying it either. The men that think like this always try to bring it up on the sly to see how you will react. If you don't react to negatively, they will pursue it more in-depth. And the men I've known that did bring it up in any way ALWAYS had issues with commitment in some way, shape, or form.

 

And by your comment above, YOU are not ready for marriage either. The ring you deserve? Please...the ring won't matter if you marry a cheating bastard....PRIORITIES!

[tnttim]

Your last post showed a lot of controlling tendencies by you towards your bf. You know all of his account balances, and you know where he is all the time, and you know he doesn't want to cheat, seriously.

 

You actually don't know sht. Unless you hire a PI, all you know is pure speculation, and basing your life on speculations instead of facts will send you down a lonely road eventually.

 

You also are putting a price on love and marriage with the silly "ring I deserve" comment. Most people I know that marry, do it out of love and wanting to start to family. What a story for your grand kids, "hey if grandpa didn't buy that ring I deserved, you wouldn't even of been born."

 

GROW UP!!!!!!!!!!!!