Trying to get over it

[Fieldsofgold]

After dating for the first time in a very long time, I met and fell in love with what I thought was a wonderful man. We were making all sorts of long-term plans, then I found out that not only is he married (separated - sort of), but he also has a girlfriend in another town with whom he has been having a 10 year affair, and lives with part-time! (And no, he didn't confess it. I found out quite by chance!)

 

I was the OW and didn't even know it!

 

I am furious! I would never, ever, knowingly have an affair with a married man.

 

Of course He swears undying love to me. I was the woman he always hoped he would meet, but never thought he would. He doesn't love the other two women AT ALL!!!! (although he has taken two cross country trips with his wife in the past six months. Guess she's just a good traveling companion)

 

Of course I ended the relationship. But now I am left with this huge void.

 

He would text me first thing when he woke up in the morning, text and call all through the day. He was always wanting to be with me, take me to breakfast, lunch, dinner, send me flowers, take me to all his social and professional activities. (he was very open about me - which now makes me really angry, because anyone who knew he was married, would assume I knew, too! How embarassing!) He absolutely glowed when we were together. Very affectionate, very loving. And no, sex was not what it was about. I never felt so loved or cared about in my life.

 

Of course, there were also those times when he was nowhere to be found - when I couldn't get a reply to a text message or an answered phone call all day long, then a short "I love you" text from him - then silence again. He travels a lot with his work, and would blame it on no cell phone signal, long business meeting, etc. Still, it drove me crazy; didn't make me feel so very loved at all! I now know that most the times I couldn't contact him, he was probably with his W or OW!

 

Since we broke up, his wife and girlfriend both have found out about me. I have gotten angry phone calls from both of them. They both inadvertently told me that he cared more for me, treated me better, than either of them. They say he has been frighteningly depressed (since I dumped him.) They think he really loves me and won't get over me, and they are begging me to go away and let them have him back. Without realizing it, they both made a very good case that he really does love me.

 

And it crossed my mind, now that I know about the other women, and they were REALLY nasty to me, really insulted me, my looks, my age (I'm an older woman, older than him and them), they slammed my parentage, my heritage and my culture (I'm racially mixed) - and it made my blood boil - and I realized that there is a competitive part of me that wants to "show them." Yes, I know that's REALLY sick, and I don't intend to give in to it. Still, I'm aware that it is there, and it is one more element of this whole mess to deal with.

 

While I am furious and hurt, I really miss his attention and companionship. I find myself wondering - only fleetingly - if maybe he really did love me. I am sure that if I had ever moved in with him, I would have quickly taken a back seat to the next "love of his life." AND I definitely did NOT like those times that he disappeared!

 

I am here, looking for moral support, motivation to stay strong, reminders of how fake his "love" for me is, how he can't be trusted, no way, no how . . . and something to occupy my time while I'm getting over my attachment/addiction to him. Any help and suggestions will be appreciated.

 

 

 

 

** * **

Edited May 9, 2010 by Fieldsofgold
Wierd punctuation showing up.

[norajane]

there is a competitive part of me that wants to "show them

Show them what? That you're the next in line in his string of women that he screws over? I'm sure each of them was "special" when he first got involved with them, too.

 

What a weasel! How self-satisfied, smug and self-important he must feel to have as many women fighting over him as he can juggle! Such a greedy, needy little man!

 

You can't "show them" because there is no winning with this guy. Count your blessings that you are free to meet a genuine guy who is only interested in you. His wife and his OW (10 years!) are so stuck with him for whatever reason that they will never break free of him and feel the pleasure of having a loving man who only cares for them...and not a harem of others.

 

Have yourself checked for STD's please! Not only have you been sharing him with his wife and OW, who knows how many other women he's been having sex with on his business trips that you do not know about!

 

And change your phone numbers and emails so none of these people can contact you anymore! You don't need to give them, especially him, the opportunity to suck you into their f*cked up drama.

I am here, looking for moral support, motivation to stay strong, reminders of how fake his "love" for me is, how he can't be trusted, no way, no how

 

Don't be fooled. He has love only for himself, and an entitled attitude that he deserves as many women as he wants to make himself feel good. This isn't about his love for you or his wife or his OW - this is about his bottemless pit of need to validate his ego.

Edited May 9, 2010 by norajane

[jj33]

Be thankful you found out now what an awful player he is. Hes not even good at it:cool: I mean to tell you Im dating 2 others but they mean nothing to me? Puleeze... this guy is a caricature of a player.

 

Its always disappointing to lose what we think is a relatioship that has real promise. And there is a void. But you dont want this guy. And as NJ said show them what? Theres nothing to see here. Hes a twit. A fly at the bbq of life.

 

 

Even if he did love you, hes told you in advance he treats women terribly - if he doesnt love hte other 2, why is he seeing them. You dont want that to be you next.

 

Get back out there. You will meet someone else someone so so much better. He doesnt deserve you. And certainly as disappointing as it is, you dont deserve a joke like him.

[2sunny]

what a COMPLETE jerk! please don't waste another moment or thought on such a liar, selfish, self centered a-hole.

[whichwayisup]

I was the OW and didn't even know it!

 

I am furious! I would never, ever, knowingly have an affair with a married man.

 

Now you know who he truly is, don't waste another minute missing him. Who you "thought he was" doesn't exist.

 

You deserve better, so close your heart and grieve, move on. No point in analyzing this, he's a liar, a betrayer and selfish.

[bittersweet memories]

After dating for the first time in a very long time, I met and fell in love with what I thought was a wonderful man. We were making all sorts of long-term plans, then I found out that not only is he married (separated - sort of), but he also has a girlfriend in another town with whom he has been having a 10 year affair, and lives with part-time! (And no, he didn't confess it. I found out quite by chance!)

 

I was the OW and didn't even know it!

 

I am furious! I would never, ever, knowingly have an affair with a married man.

 

Of course He swears undying love to me. I was the woman he always hoped he would meet, but never thought he would. He doesn't love the other two women AT ALL!!!! (although he has taken two cross country trips with his wife in the past six months. Guess she's just a good traveling companion)

 

Of course I ended the relationship. But now I am left with this huge void.

 

He would text me first thing when he woke up in the morning, text and call all through the day. He was always wanting to be with me, take me to breakfast, lunch, dinner, send me flowers, take me to all his social and professional activities. (he was very open about me - which now makes me really angry, because anyone who knew he was married, would assume I knew, too! How embarassing!) He absolutely glowed when we were together. Very affectionate, very loving. And no, sex was not what it was about. I never felt so loved or cared about in my life.

 

Of course, there were also those times when he was nowhere to be found - when I couldn't get a reply to a text message or an answered phone call all day long, then a short "I love you" text from him - then silence again. He travels a lot with his work, and would blame it on no cell phone signal, long business meeting, etc. Still, it drove me crazy; didn't make me feel so very loved at all! I now know that most the times I couldn't contact him, he was probably with his W or OW!

 

Since we broke up, his wife and girlfriend both have found out about me. I have gotten angry phone calls from both of them. They both inadvertently told me that he cared more for me, treated me better, than either of them. They say he has been frighteningly depressed (since I dumped him.) They think he really loves me and won't get over me, and they are begging me to go away and let them have him back. Without realizing it, they both made a very good case that he really does love me.

 

And it crossed my mind, now that I know about the other women, and they were REALLY nasty to me, really insulted me, my looks, my age (I'm an older woman, older than him and them), they slammed my parentage, my heritage and my culture (I'm racially mixed) - and it made my blood boil - and I realized that there is a competitive part of me that wants to "show them." Yes, I know that's REALLY sick, and I don't intend to give in to it. Still, I'm aware that it is there, and it is one more element of this whole mess to deal with.

 

While I am furious and hurt, I really miss his attention and companionship. I find myself wondering - only fleetingly - if maybe he really did love me. I am sure that if I had ever moved in with him, I would have quickly taken a back seat to the next "love of his life." AND I definitely did NOT like those times that he disappeared!

 

I am here, looking for moral support, motivation to stay strong, reminders of how fake his "love" for me is, how he can't be trusted, no way, no how . . . and something to occupy my time while I'm getting over my attachment/addiction to him. Any help and suggestions will be appreciated.

 

 

 

 

** * **

 

Consider yourself lucky!! Good thing you found out what kinda man you've been dealing with now rather than way later.

 

I know you are hurting right now but I promise you there is a light at the end of this dark tunnel. Move forward, keep busy and surround yourself with postitve people. Good Luck to you!!

[White Flower]

I found out that not only is he married (separated - sort of), but he also has a girlfriend in another town with whom he has been having a 10 year affair, and lives with part-time! (And no, he didn't confess it. I found out quite by chance!)

 

I was the OW and didn't even know it!

 

I am furious! I would never, ever, knowingly have an affair with a married man.

 

I am here, looking for moral support, motivation to stay strong, reminders of how fake his "love" for me is, how he can't be trusted, no way, no how . . . and something to occupy my time while I'm getting over my attachment/addiction to him. Any help and suggestions will be appreciated.

 

 

 

 

** * **

(((((FieldsofGold)))))--that means big hugs.

 

I'm sorry you found out that your guy was M and he not only had a W but an OOW besides. Just wow. Like you I was an OW with a MM who had OOW. Unlike you, I signed up for it, except the OOW part.

 

About the competition factor. As far as we've evolved spiritually we are still human and competition still rears its ugly head as a result during times of stress and pressure. I never once felt competitive with MM's W until she forced him to call me in her presence on D-day. I was shocked with myself for disliking her the way I did during the first few months after. I'm glad I'm back to my normal self.

 

I understand about broken dates, unreturned calls and texts, and excuses that are just too easy. Usually for the OW who signed up to be one the MM just uses his W as the simple excuse. You're never really going to investigate it so you never really know he could be with an OOW. Perfect for him. Sucks for you.

 

Before I go on and on with advice I would like to know how exactly you found out about the OW and the W. How did they get ahold of you and why would they tell you so much? How much do you know?

[bananalaffytaffy]

I think it's not the MM you miss so much, but the attention he gave you. That being gone has left a void. Find new things to do with yourself. Start a new hobby. Join a new group that interests you, go to the gym...

 

This guy's trouble, and would only cause you heartache.

 

Work on a new life. Fill the bad void with good things, and good things will come to you.

[Fieldsofgold]

I want to thank everyone for their responses and support. It really helps reinforce me to hear it from you all. You all are putting into words the feelings and thoughts that have been swirling inside me, but I couldn't find words for.*

 

Norajane, When I read your post, I almost thought you knew this guy. I (silently)*call him a weasel and a greedy, needy little man all the time now. (he IS very small, too). (what I called him to his face *wasn't nearly so nice!) You are right about there being nothing to "win." It just infuriated me that those two women would insult me for things so beyond my control (age, race, parentage, ancestors, etc.) I had hoped people had grown past all that in the last 60 years. *I wanted to "take him away from both of them - make him dump them and choose me" - that sort of thing - to show them. Of course you are right. There is no winning with someone like him. Most likely he will never dump either of them, for anyone. *And there is no doubt that if I were to have stayed with him, I would just be the #3 link in his "chain of fools.".**NJ, you said,*"Don't be fooled. He has love only for himself, and an entitled attitude that he deserves as many women as he wants to make himself feel good. This isn't about his love for you or his wife or his OW - this is about his bottemless pit of need to validate his ego."*I think that explains it best. *

 

jj33, I love when you said he's a fly at the BBQ of life! LOL! And a "caricature of a player!" thank you for pointing out that EVEN IF he did love me, he has already shown me that he treats his women badly.*

 

2sunny, I know he's a worthless loser and a complete waste of skin - but there is still a void. *As WWIU put it, "who I thought he was, " was just an illusion.*It will just take a little time to acclimate to that.*

 

Bittersweet, I do consider myself lucky. But it is also scary that I could be so seriously fooled!*

 

Again, I appreciate all the support, and all your help in seeing all the facets of it clearly. * *

[Fieldsofgold]

(I have no idea why those astericks keep showing up in my posts. Please ignore them. Sorry.)

[fooled once]

How can you "love" someone you really don't know? You love someone he isn't - someone you want him to be. He can't be that person.

 

As for him loving you, sorry, he loves himself.

 

If he loved you - he wouldn't lie to you. If he loved you, he wouldn't disrespect you. If he loved you, there wouldn't be a wife and another OW.

 

Like banana said, you just miss the attention.

 

Be glad you dumped him. Let him move onto his next victim and thank your stars you didn't invest more time and energy into him.

[Fieldsofgold]

How can you "love" someone you really don't know? You love someone he isn't - someone you want him to be. He can't be that person.

 

As for him loving you, sorry, he loves himself.

 

If he loved you - he wouldn't lie to you. If he loved you, he wouldn't disrespect you. If he loved you, there wouldn't be a wife and another OW.

 

Like banana said, you just miss the attention.

 

Be glad you dumped him. Let him move onto his next victim and thank your stars you didn't invest more time and energy into him.

 

You and banana are right. I loved who I thought he was, not who he actually is. I DO miss the attention. I am copying everyone's responses to re-read, when I start missing him. It is so very good to hear it in someone else's

words.

[MizzBlue72]

Wow - this is bad. I am so sorry for you.

He is ot only cheating on his W but his OW with you. I know you love him - but if he can't come clean - I'm not sure this is good for you.

He evidentally doesn't care that they know about you. I say cut your losses - be greatful that you found out now instead of later.

Sounds like he is only thinking of him - and not you. Do you really want that?

It hurts to get over this - but you have to move on.

 

Good luck.

[White Flower]

Before I go on and on with advice I would like to know how exactly you found out about the OW and the W. How did they get ahold of you and why would they tell you so much? How much do you know?

I would also like to know his age but only answer in 'ish' terms like 30-ish or 40-ish to prevent TMI. Thank you!

[Fieldsofgold]

Hey Ms. WF, thanks for the hug! I have been reading your thread "he swept me away." I'm afraid the two men sound very much alike. All through your thread (I haven't finished it yet) I kept seeing things that matched up - I would call them red flags. IMHO, I don't think either man is going to leave his comfort zone, i.e., current arrangement. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.

 

He's in his early 50's, the wife and OW are in their late 40's, I am crowding 60.*

 

As for how we all found out, it's a long, strange story. I'm the (volunteer) youth pastor of a small youth group at my church. It's older teens, ages 15-20. They have grown up on the streets, with drugs and booze and violence, and without any parents - *either because the parents are dead or in prison. I love these kids, and they know it. If they need someone, they come to me. I've been there for them. *They all call me Mom or Grandma. I call them my kids. I love them like my own.*

 

One night I went to the ER. My "kids" found out and came to the ER to be with me. My BF showed up also, so my kids met him. *

 

A week or so later, I took my kids out for dinner. We were just hanging out talking after dinner, and they were all really curious about my BF, in part because they had never known me to date, and in part because he is white. My oldest boy asked me where the man lived. I told him a town about 30 minutes from me. *My kids run the roads all the time, they frequent that town and know a lot of kids there. My boy asked me if I had been to his house. I said no. I explained I was trying to set a good dating example for them, so I didn't go to his house, he didn't come to mine, I wasn't sleeping with him, etc. When I told the young man that I hadn't been to his house, he immediately responded that the man has a girlfriend or he'd try to take me to his house. All the kids agreed. Later, they set out, without my knowledge, to find out about this guy. They called people they knew in that town until they found out where he lived. They went by his house on garbage night, took the garbage he had set out on the curb, and went through it. They got his girlfriend's information, and all sorts of "proof." Then they replaced his garbage, so he never knew. Then they got on the Internet and started researching, and made phone calls until they found his wife, in yet another town. The oldest boy called her under false pretenses, found out for sure it was his wife, that they had been separated for six months, and got all sorts of information. Then they brought it all to me. Then they drove me to his house and waited outside while I confronted him. Then they took me out for coffee. (gotta love 'em.) *Then they took me home, and, without my knowledge, they went and confronted/interviewed his girlfriend, and then his wife! Told the women they were my kids, and they wanted the truth!

 

Now that everyone knew, i guess the women tried to find out everything they could about me. Weasel convinced them we were just "phone friends." The OW started sneaking his cell phone, checking his undeleted text messages, his phone records on line, and who knows what else. She got my phone number and called me. Then she called his wife and told her that he was living with ME!!! So the wife called me! I told them both I didn't want him, and I couldn't imagine why they would either. They are not from this region of the country, and they were very snobbish and disparaging toward me. Which made me want to "take him away from them" out of spite. Fortunately, I'm not that sick!

 

He has been with the OW 10 years, W 20 years. Apparently lives with the wife, then OW, back and forth. The OW and wife have moved from northern US to West, to South, with/following him. *After the women called me, I had a long talk with him. First to call off his dogs. Then I asked him what went wrong with both relationships. His wife didn't pay enough attention to him (they had 4 kids. Hmmm). When I asked for specifics, it was very feeble complaints - one time she stayed up and watched a movie when he needed to sleep! Then, he lived with the OW, and within two months, that relationship had gone belly up because, guess what? She didn't pay enough attention to him, either. She took a store clerk job, and had to work different shifts. Couldn't be there when he wanted to go sailing. There is no doubt in my mind that if he dumped both of them and lived with me, it wouldn't be long before he'd have similar complaints about me. AND --nothing was ever his fault. AND he lied when the truth would have been better.*

 

(I'll be happy to answer any other questions you have, if it will help you.) * * * * * *

[2sunny]

oh my! these kids are so smart!

 

you can find out SO MUCH about a person's life if you're willing to look at their trash. not too many are willing to do this - but it is so telling...

[White Flower]

Hey Ms. WF, thanks for the hug! I have been reading your thread "he swept me away." I'm afraid the two men sound very much alike. All through your thread (I haven't finished it yet) I kept seeing things that matched up - I would call them red flags. IMHO, I don't think either man is going to leave his comfort zone, i.e., current arrangement. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.

 

He's in his early 50's, the wife and OW are in their late 40's, I am crowding 60.*

 

As for how we all found out, it's a long, strange story. I'm the (volunteer) youth pastor of a small youth group at my church. It's older teens, ages 15-20. They have grown up on the streets, with drugs and booze and violence, and without any parents - *either because the parents are dead or in prison. I love these kids, and they know it. If they need someone, they come to me. I've been there for them. *They all call me Mom or Grandma. I call them my kids. I love them like my own.*

 

One night I went to the ER. My "kids" found out and came to the ER to be with me. My BF showed up also, so my kids met him. *

 

A week or so later, I took my kids out for dinner. We were just hanging out talking after dinner, and they were all really curious about my BF, in part because they had never known me to date, and in part because he is white. My oldest boy asked me where the man lived. I told him a town about 30 minutes from me. *My kids run the roads all the time, they frequent that town and know a lot of kids there. My boy asked me if I had been to his house. I said no. I explained I was trying to set a good dating example for them, so I didn't go to his house, he didn't come to mine, I wasn't sleeping with him, etc. When I told the young man that I hadn't been to his house, he immediately responded that the man has a girlfriend or he'd try to take me to his house. All the kids agreed. Later, they set out, without my knowledge, to find out about this guy. They called people they knew in that town until they found out where he lived. They went by his house on garbage night, took the garbage he had set out on the curb, and went through it. They got his girlfriend's information, and all sorts of "proof." Then they replaced his garbage, so he never knew. Then they got on the Internet and started researching, and made phone calls until they found his wife, in yet another town. The oldest boy called her under false pretenses, found out for sure it was his wife, that they had been separated for six months, and got all sorts of information. Then they brought it all to me. Then they drove me to his house and waited outside while I confronted him. Then they took me out for coffee. (gotta love 'em.) *Then they took me home, and, without my knowledge, they went and confronted/interviewed his girlfriend, and then his wife! Told the women they were my kids, and they wanted the truth!

 

Now that everyone knew, i guess the women tried to find out everything they could about me. Weasel convinced them we were just "phone friends." The OW started sneaking his cell phone, checking his undeleted text messages, his phone records on line, and who knows what else. She got my phone number and called me. Then she called his wife and told her that he was living with ME!!! So the wife called me! I told them both I didn't want him, and I couldn't imagine why they would either. They are not from this region of the country, and they were very snobbish and disparaging toward me. Which made me want to "take him away from them" out of spite. Fortunately, I'm not that sick!

 

He has been with the OW 10 years, W 20 years. Apparently lives with the wife, then OW, back and forth. The OW and wife have moved from northern US to West, to South, with/following him. *After the women called me, I had a long talk with him. First to call off his dogs. Then I asked him what went wrong with both relationships. His wife didn't pay enough attention to him (they had 4 kids. Hmmm). When I asked for specifics, it was very feeble complaints - one time she stayed up and watched a movie when he needed to sleep! Then, he lived with the OW, and within two months, that relationship had gone belly up because, guess what? She didn't pay enough attention to him, either. She took a store clerk job, and had to work different shifts. Couldn't be there when he wanted to go sailing. There is no doubt in my mind that if he dumped both of them and lived with me, it wouldn't be long before he'd have similar complaints about me. AND --nothing was ever his fault. AND he lied when the truth would have been better.*

 

(I'll be happy to answer any other questions you have, if it will help you.) * * * * * *

Wow FoG!!! (love your acronym!) Your kids LOVE you in such an obvious way! I love them for you! I'm amazed.

 

Thank you for taking the time to write this all out and it does help. Sadly, I do think your guy is going to remain serial for at least 10-15 more years, especially given that he has two women who are willing to participate in the game with him already before he dragged you into it. My guy was going full force in his game at that age and nobody really confronted his multiplicity and held him accountable until I came along. And even then, narrowed down to just two, you can see from my thread how difficult this last change is for him. He's still on the fence as far as I'm concerned.

 

What was your guy's reaction to all the truth coming out? Does he still want you? Does he say he's going to get counseling or even wants to change? Is he talking the D game? Do his kids know? Is there any way (I hightly doubt it but want to ask anyway) you could take him back under any circumstance?

 

I'm sorry both W and OW played the race card, that is just distasteful. It seems they were more concerned about your racial background than the fact that you were involved with their man! They way some people think. Oh, and that that was the reason you needed to 'steel him from them' to boot! Whatever.

 

You sound like a very strong woman who is surrounded by an extended family who will swim the strongest tides for you. You're a lucky woman who got caught up in an unlucky situation. I'm sorry you fell prey to this predator and that your heart got hurt. I did see my guy as a predator too at one time but he's done so much to try to make it right for once in his life with regard to his harem of OWs. But this post isn't about me and my guy, it is about you and yours.

 

You must be very proud of your kids. I'm very impressed by them.

[White Flower]

oh my! these kids are so smart!

 

you can find out SO MUCH about a person's life if you're willing to look at their trash. not too many are willing to do this - but it is so telling...

Little detectives is what they are, and successful ones at that! I'd like to get a business card for future needs.

[Fieldsofgold]

Yeah, I love my kids. They ARE amazing. People think they aren't smart because they don't do so well in school. People think they are bad kids. They don't expect much of them. They are great kids - just need to be genuinely cared about.

[Fieldsofgold]

From WF: "What was your guy's reaction to all the truth coming out? Does he still want you? Does he say he's going to get counseling or even wants to change? Is he talking the D game? Do his kids know? Is there any way (I hightly doubt it but want to ask anyway) you could take him back under any circumstance?"

 

Yes, he still wants me - more than ever. I am the only woman he loves. I am the woman he was "always looking for, but never thought he would find." No matter what I do, he is not going to let me get away; he is not going to let ME mess up our relationship! He loves me too much to let me go! He is NOT going to let me go! (or either of the others, apparently!) He does not love the other two AT ALL. *He is working on ending the relationship with the OW, and as soon as he can afford it, he is getting a divorce! The kids are grown (youngest in college.) Don't know if they know.

 

For the record, I had this gut feeling almost from the beginning, that something wasn't right. I even asked him point-blank several times if he was married or had a GF. He denied any attachments. And he was so TOTALLY public with me, I believed him. TRUST YOUR GUT!

***

When confronted, his reaction was denial. The OW WAS NOT AN OW. She was just a poor victim of the bad economy. She was a military veteran, (he's retired military) and a long-time friend whom he had worked with on many charitable projects. She*lost her job, lost her home, was evicted and homeless. *He just told her she could stay with him until she could get on her feet. Just doing a friend a favor! Had NEVER slept with her. Later conceded that they had slept together once, nine years ago, but it just wasn't any good/wasn't right. I kept battering him with the truth; he staunchly denied everything without so much as an eye blink. *Later, she called him and told him the kids had talked to her. At that point, he conceded that they had had a relationship. But it was over, and NOW they were JUST FRIENDS, and he was just letting her stay there until her daughter/SIL returned from their military assignment overseas. She had no other family. No one to help her. When the kids got home, she was moving. (the truth: she left her husband for him, followed him to six states. Has lived with him off and on. They've never broken up. She has two brothers with whom she is very close. One recently divorced, whom she spends a lot of time with.)*

 

It got REALLY interesting when I told him one night that I wanted to go to his house for coffee, so we could talk more privately! (a lie of my own. I just wanted to see his reaction. If they really were just friends, and she was moving, there would be no problem with me stopping by.) *NO WAY, NO HOW was that going to happen! *He was scared poop-less! He was in my vehicle when we had that discussion, and I just drove toward his house, anyway. He threatened to get out and walk the 30 miles back to his vehicle in the dark (rather than let me go to his house. *LOL!) But he never would admit it was because of the OW. I would have put him out to walk, too, but I figured he'd just call someone to come get him anyway.

 

He's still trying to tell me he and OW are not sleeping together. * * *

 

As for the wife, he said they were separated, and he was getting a divorce as soon as he could afford it. As it turns out, he was taking me to breakfast every Saturday morning, (spending most Saturdays with me), and taking her to breakfast every Sunday morning, then driving back and going to church and lunch with me, my mother, and my (biological) grandchildren, then spending Sunday evening with her! And he sat all up in church with me like a righteous man! Even helped me prepare the Lord's Supper (I'm a trustee, so I have those kinds of responsibilities, and he helped with it all.) He seemed to LOVE being in church! Then off to see his wife.

 

His wife lives in their home on the lake. I knew he had a house on the lake somewhere, just didn't know about the wife. All winter he was having to go over there to fix frozen pipes, etc. On weeknights. *Would work til late, then have to spend the night there. It was a dirty job, but someone had to do it. He even had to dig up the pipes all across the front yard to replace them. I drove by that house for the first time the other day. *He should open a landscaping business! He spent DAYS and DAYS over there, digging up the front yard, and now --- the sod doesn't look like it's ever been disturbed! AMAZING! When the wife called, she said he came over a couple nights a week to sleep with her. He was digging something alright, but it wasn't PVC! She also told me about him taking her out of state Valentine's weekend (he had a valentine gift sent to me from VS the week before Val. Day, so I know this was a long-planned trip.) Then just a few weeks ago, he took her 2,000 miles for a few days' vacation. Told me it was business - he'd love to take me, but it wasn't allowed. When I confronted him about that, he just said he and the wife had loose ends to tie up, and he'd promised her the trip before he met me. Says he can understand how it looks bad, but it's not like it looks. Yes, they shared a room, but just to cut down expenses. He denies sleeping with her, too. *

 

(the guy has a wife, two OW, AND he's celibate! *RIGHT!) *

 

I never mentioned going to counseling with him because I just figure he's too hard-core. Lies too easily. Won't admit the truth when you already know it. Is SO GOOD at putting his spin on it, it can make you crazy. Major gaslighter. I was married to one. It WILL make you crazy after awhile, trying to ferret out the grains of truth from the rest of the mess. I'd rather spend my time and emotional energy on more worthwhile things. *

 

He did tell me that he had gone to counseling in the past, and the counselor told him he would not change until he has a significant relationship/marriage. One where he experiences true intimacy.*

 

Guess what? I am that woman. He intends to marry me! *

 

I told him to let me know when the OW has moved out.*That I refuse to have anything else to do with him until she's gone. Won't even talk to him til she's gone. *He's "working on it," but she's still there. (I targeted the OW, because that's a lot easier, less complicated than divorcing his wife, and he can always use the "financial" excuse with the W.) If he won't even leave the OW, that makes a statement loud and clear. *

 

Truthfully, I will not take him back, under any circumstances. But I will let you know if he ever leaves the OW.

 

(if I loved someone the way he claims to love me, I would have shucked all the non-legal involvements immediately, and wouldn't be all up with the wife, either.) no, I know he's just a player, and as someone already said, not a good one, either. He's a liar. He's a gaslighter. But mostly, he's just a selfish cake-eater. ****

 

** * * * * * * *** * **

[MorningCoffee]

He was digging something alright, but it wasn't PVC!

 

Laughed out loud at this line!

 

Run! Flee! This guy is a real piece of work.

[Fieldsofgold]

Here's why I would never take this guy back. Because it is not about love. It's not about personality. It's about CHARACTER. His is not good. Even if he left the OW and divorced the wife, and married me --- there is a good chance that when the stars and circumstances aligned, he would be right back to his old ways. Because honestly, no relationship IRL exists without problems. One or two bad rounds, and he might decide that he needed to find someone who could understand him -- just like when he met me. No. It's all about character. When the going gets rough, what does his character do? Stay and work on the problems? Or cut bait and find a side piece to ease his pain? In all my years of living, I have seen a lot, but I've never seen Counseling change someone's fundamental character. I think he is what he is. And he's not what I want. I'm not saying people can't change. But I think it takes something VERY big to change someone's basic character. Like an encounter with God or something. P

[MizzBlue72]

Here's why I would never take this guy back. Because it is not about love. It's not about personality. It's about CHARACTER. His is not good. Even if he left the OW and divorced the wife, and married me --- there is a good chance that when the stars and circumstances aligned, he would be right back to his old ways. Because honestly, no relationship IRL exists without problems. One or two bad rounds, and he might decide that he needed to find someone who could understand him -- just like when he met me. No. It's all about character. When the going gets rough, what does his character do? Stay and work on the problems? Or cut bait and find a side piece to ease his pain? In all my years of living, I have seen a lot, but I've never seen Counseling change someone's fundamental character. I think he is what he is. And he's not what I want. I'm not saying people can't change. But I think it takes something VERY big to change someone's basic character. Like an encounter with God or something. P

 

 

Fields of Gold - you said it. It's about charachter ... and how they live. IT makes you think .. a LOT.

[fooled once]

Can I ask why you are even still talking to this liar?

 

How is that good for YOU - for you to heal - if you keep in contact with him?

[White Flower]

He did tell me that he had gone to counseling in the past, and the counselor told him he would not change until he has a significant relationship/marriage. One where he experiences true intimacy.*

 

Guess what? I am that woman. He intends to marry me! *

 

This is true but he can't prove it to you unless he D's and marries you and lives with that intimcay the rest of his life in a monogomous R.

He was digging something alright, but it wasn't PVC!

Laughed out loud at this line!

I laughed too!

I'm not saying people can't change. But I think it takes something VERY big to change someone's basic character. Like an encounter with God or something. P

Now let us pray.

 

FoG, thanks for answering all my questions. You're such an honest person, bright and full of life. Your detailed posts tell me that. No wonder such a complex man, a master manipulator, is so attracted to you.

 

I believe they start out with ignorant gilrs and try to move on to more intelligent ones. I think they're so bored that they improve their game with something more challenging each time. I think I could write a book on this but I'll hold off for now. I wish you the best and hope you keep on posting until this is all past you.

 

Hugs.

Edited May 13, 2010 by White Flower