A much too long, much too complex story: WHAT is going on in her head?

[Username123etc]

I could fill in enough details to make this a 13 page post, but I'll try to keep it relevant to the main point. It's still going to be extremely long though, and for that I apologize. I like to put in dates for clarity's sake sometimes, and I'll also refer to the girl in question as Liz. Anyone who takes the time to read this has my utmost respect, and your advice will be unbelievably appreciated.

 

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The day before I started college back in Fall of '08, a mutual friend from high school introduced me to Liz. We hit it off instantly, and a little over 2 weeks later, we began a relationship (9/15/08 ). I liked her, of course, but as I was never a flavor of the month type of person, I remained somewhat casual. She, however, was head over heels for me. I was her world. I spent most of my time at her apartment; sometimes I would go a week without seeing my dorm room. About 3 weeks into the relationship, we started having sex. I soon found out how just much she loves sex (this is relevant in a moment).

 

It wasn't until our sixth month anniversary (3/15/09) when we flew across the country to meet her family that I started to become a little more serious. Her current roommate was getting married soon, and planned on moving in with her husband, so Liz was going to need a new roommate when her lease was up in June. I also was looking for an apartment/roommate because of the ridiculous price of the dorms on campus. We were a bit cautious about it, but eventually we both agreed to move in together. It wasn't necessarily because we were in a relationship (although it of course played a part), but that we both got along immensely well (to this day we still haven't had any roommate-related problems).

 

I moved in on 6/15/09, and things went flawlessly for about five months. Around October, we stopped having sex. I didn't notice any sort of decrease in frequency (although there may have been), but by November we weren't having sex. The reason was because she had completely lost her sex drive. As someone who LOVED sex, this freaked her out. She had no idea what was wrong, but she remained optimistic and assured me that it would probably come back soon. We ended up having sex again on New Year's Eve in a beautiful stay-in date. That was the last time we ever did. She later told me that she had (non-regrettably) willed herself to want it because she wanted the night to be perfect.

 

On a physical level, it was frustrating. But on an emotional level, we both were taking the relationship serious enough to know that we had started having sex too early. And because of that, the lack of it didn't bother me. We carried on with other intimate things as usual--kissing, showering and sleeping together.

 

Around the middle of January of 2010, the aforementioned mutual friend (a Mormon) invited Liz to a weekly Mormon event (it has less to do with religious stuff and more to do with just having fun). For those who don't know, Mormons tend to be VERY friendly people. This was nice, as throughout our relationship, we had really only grown to have a few mutual friends, and generally spent our time either alone or with them. The plus side to Mormon friends was that I knew they weren't going to get into any trouble (not that I didn't trust her in the first place). About a week later, one of the Mormon boys (we'll call him Thomas) invited Liz to hang out with him. They ended up playing pool, going to the mall, simple things like that. They hung out pretty much the entire day. It didn't bother me, really. But it was different, because she had never really hung out with someone I didn't know for that long before. It was around this time that we signed another lease until July 2011.

 

It turned out that Thomas was leaving at the end of March to become a missionary for two years in another state. As time progressed, she began hanging out with Thomas several times a week for several hours. On Monday nights in particular (when the Mormon event took place, which actually lasted from just 7-10pm), she would end up hanging with him until 2 or 3 AM. Sometimes this would happen throughout the week too. They would generally hang out at least 3 times a week, and if they weren't, they were usually texting each other. She would often turn down plans for us to hang out because she already had plans with Thomas. It got to the point that we started doing very little.

 

I hinted on several occasions that I'd like to meet him, but she always found a way to refuse, saying it would be a bit awkward. He never came up to the apartment (whenever I was there, at least; I don't know about otherwise). He would aways pick her up in the parking lot. After all that, I started to get a little annoyed. Her only response was, "We're just friends. I love you and only you."

 

When Spring Break (3/13/10) came, she had signed up to do volunteer work at a beach for the week and needed someone to look after her dog. Naturally, it would be me. To give both the dog and myself a bit of a break, we went to my parents' house for the week (they live on 50+ acres of land; plenty of running room). She spent the entire week texting and calling me about how much she missed both me and the dog and that she wanted to come back after just two days. She was to return on Friday night, and I told her that the dog and I would head back early that day to meet her. She told me not to worry about it though. Confused, I pressed for details, and it turns out that Thomas was having a dinner Friday night, and as soon as she got home she was going to it. I shook it off and said that's fine, I'll come back on Saturday. She told me that she had plans with him on Saturday too, and that she probably wouldn't be there most of the day. Annoyed, I said I would just come back Sunday then. She assured me that she couldn't wait to see me.

 

I hadn't heard from her all day Sunday, and I ended up returning home around 4pm with no sign of her, and still no response. She finally texted me back around midnight saying that she would be home soon--she had spent the day with Thomas and his sisters. I finally snapped. But I didn't want to say anything regrettable (I'd already told her I was upset, and that it was absolutely ridiculous), so I decided to try and sleep it off before she got home.

 

The next morning (3/22/10) I didn't feel any better, and decided that I finally had to say something. I told her how horrible it made me feel. And that at some point the excuse "We're just friends" doesn't mean anything anymore. I told her that she had been walking all over me ever since she met Thomas and I was sick of it, and that something had to change. She began crying, and told me she didn't know what to say because it was true, that she realized she had been walking all over me. She suggested we go on a break so that she could figure out what was wrong with her. And so we did. The study room became my room within hours. It was surreal. This was roughly a week before Thomas was leaving for his mission (he left Sunday, 3/28/10).

 

Over the next week, she ended up spending the majority of her time with him. And in the last 72 hours, she came home only to sleep for a few hours at a time. On Monday, the 29th, we had a discussion which resulted in us realizing she had no intention of reviving the relationship, and that this "break" was actually a "break up".

 

For the next couple of weeks she was so depressed that she began failing all of her tests and not leaving the apartment. The hardest part, though, was that it was completely because a guy she had known for two months had just left, and not because she had just broken up with her boyfriend of a year and a half. She's sad that I'm sad, but other than that the breakup isn't affecting her in the least. She admitted that her relationship with Thomas was unusual, and that not even she understood it.

 

Somewhere along the way she became very serious about the Mormon religion, and intends on being baptized. The only problem is, she can't while she lives with the opposite sex.

 

For those who don't know, when a Mormon goes on a mission they have no phone or Internet access. Their only form of communication is writing letters. And yet, it's almost as if Thomas hasn't really left. She writes to him nearly daily (as a sort of daily journal), and mails it out once a week. We're talking 3-10 pages, depending on if it's typed or handwritten. This is from a girl who absolutely loathes writing. The responses she receives are usually about the same length. She even hangs out with his family. A couple of weeks ago she went with his sisters to a "Mormon prom".

 

After those initial two weeks of depression on her part, we began talking about us more. She still refers to me as her "best friend" and "favorite person". She leaves me notes saying "I <3 you", currently it's on a post-it on my laptop, and a dry-erase board in my room. She recently switched out a lot of her pictures, but left the ones of us kissing. On occasion, when hanging up the phone, leaving, or going to bed, she'll say "I love you"; sometimes it's hesitant, and sometimes she'll apologize for it. We hug, she lays in my lap, we watch movies or go out to eat. She's said on a couple of occasions that the reason the breakup isn't affecting her is because "it's almost as if we haven't even broken up". But she doesn't have any desire to kiss or have sex with me, and because of that she feels we shouldn't be in a relationship. I can basically agree with that.

 

But then there are the more complex mixed signals. One particular one is probably best explained through dialog. About a week ago we were having a conversation about her birthday that led to this:

 

Her: "Actually, I'll probably have kids in 5 years."

Me: "How? You'll still be in school."

Her: "Well I'm not going to wait until I have my PhD to get married, just until I get my Masters (in 3 years)."

Me: "You've got to be kidding. There's no way you'll be ready to marry in 3 years."

Her: "Actually, yeah, I probably will."

Me: "So you think we took it too fast, but within 3 years you're going to find a new "suitor" AND be ready to marry him?"

Her: "We're already living together, aren't we?"

Me: "Yeah, and apparently that was a mistake. Are you really going to go through that again?"

Her: "Well if it's with you then I won't have to go through it again."

Me: "You've made it painfully obvious that that won't be the case."

Her: "It probably will."

Me: "...you make no sense whatsoever."

Her: "See how my brain works? Try being me."

Me: "I'd rather not."

Her: "I have no idea why you like me."

 

And a couple of nights later, after seeing a puppy:

Her: "If we ever get married, we should get a puppy."

Me: "..."

Her: "Sorry, I'll stop."

 

Finally, 3 nights ago, she shared some of what's going on in her head.

 

Liz is the kind of girl who has never really stayed single long. And it just so happens that a few months ago, she really started to yearn for it. She's never really had a date in the casual sense of "dinner, movie, then go your separate ways". Her aunt is going through a similar thing at the moment. Her and her husband had dated for 15 years (off and on) before they got married, and now the fact that she never really had a single phase in her life is eating her up inside. Liz doesn't want that to happen to her, and so she's dedicating her last year in undergrad college to staying single. In fact, she insists that she's partially doing this because she IS ready to settle down. She feels that it's something she has to get out of her system. For some reason she's fairly certain that she'll be married within 3-4 years, because she's heard from so many people that you practically HAVE to have a support system (ie, marriage) while getting your PhD.

 

And on the flipside she wonders if she can even make it a year. She thinks that there's a good chance she could "come crawling back" to me before then--something that I don't understand, given the lack of interest she's shown. On June 6th she's traveling to Iowa (quite a ways from here) for two months for a research program for undergraduates. It'll be the longest we've been apart by far (the current record is around 1.5 weeks, and that was just by about 35 miles), and we're both curious as to how that'll affect things.

 

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Now that I've actually spilled that entire story for the first time ever, I'm not even sure where to begin with the questions. Does she really know what she wants? Do you think there's something she's not telling me? Is she secretly trying to wait on Thomas, and this is a sort of way to make it easier? Have I overreacted about anything? Do you think I should do my best to just forget all of this? I don't even think that's possible. I always knew living with an ex was tough, but this whole thing is just surreal. And as it stands, we're financially dependent on each other as far as rent goes. Not only that, but no matter how badly it hurts sometimes, we're amazing as roommates, and I don't want to risk ending up with someone who annoys me.

 

Even if you have something to say not related to a question, I'd love to hear it. I just need some kind of input from someone else. Anything at all.

[Chris1479]

This chick is a mess in a dozen different ways. All the talk of university - marriage - phd's - another man - reeks of a woman who doesn't actually know what they want. By putting up with this utter nonsense you're saying it's "ok" to continue like this. It's not. For your sanity if not hers (she's clearly forfeited that a while back) you need to take a deep breath, summon up some serious courage, and walk in the opposite direction.

 

I'm only 23, graduated last year, but I've seen enough of this trash to last me a lifetime. To put it into soundbite format: If she will put you through all this nonsense, she is not the right woman.

 

Of course, if you're looking for a lot of pointless drama and misery, you will have your wish granted to you in spades.

 

On the other hand, if you have self-respect (not just a little, not just something flimsy) you will know what I just said is true. You have many years ahead of you, and settling for something like this is a joke. Not to mention totally impossible on a dozen different levels.

 

Get to the gym, focus on your studies, get into some introspection (NOT depression) and fly on.

 

None of that is easy to do, but in the end, as I recall a member of LS telling me three years ago, it's the right thing to do. Go for it.

[Username123etc]

I really, really appreciate the reply. I didn't think anyone would actually read the whole thing.

 

Get to the gym, focus on your studies, get into some introspection (NOT depression) and fly on.

 

None of that is easy to do, but in the end, as I recall a member of LS telling me three years ago, it's the right thing to do. Go for it.

 

I've actually attempted to do all of those things recently. Although I generally shy away from the introspection because it always ends up at depression. Yesterday I read about a process called "thought stopping", and it's worked out fairly well... for the last 24 hours. But like you said, it's all very difficult to do. I slipped from straight A's to straight B's within the month. And I actually ended up overdoing it at the gym, resulting in the doctor telling me to lay off for a bit.

 

I also think it's worth pointing out that she's actually started a blog about this "single year of college". I'm all for creativity, but it really makes it feel like the whole thing is just one big game to her, not that I didn't get that vibe already.

 

The daily difficulty, though, is that I essentially have no close friends. Our friends were really "couple friends", which means they're not comfortable in situations like this. So while she's struck a goldmine (as I said, Mormons are VERY friendly, and have some sort of social event every time you sneeze), I'm treated to either sitting at home or trying to make new friends; the latter of which doesn't work out very well during finals.

[Chris1479]

"it really makes it feel like the whole thing is just one big game to her, not that I didn't get that vibe already."

 

I forget who said this, but it's a great truth: You cannot teach a man anything, you can only help him discover it in himself.

 

And you most certainly already know, whatever anyone may tell you here on LS.

 

In practical suggestions, I know it's hard (I'm f*cking struggling with it myself, I always have in fact, but for you it may be easier) - but as regards making friends, I know this intellectually if not in practice: You must have a separate social circle and a separate life of your own to live in, not merely to fall back on.

 

Anything else will make for a very long, drawn-out, painful, lonely and depressing time while you move on.

 

There's the easy way and the hard way, buddy. If you're confident enough, you can choose the easy way. If not, well, it's a learning experience.

[Username123etc]

I apologize for taking so long to reply to this thread. Finals week was pretty rough. But I couldn't let your help go without recognition and a minor update.

 

I'm not over her, not by a long shot. It hurts to wake up each day. But, I'm raising my head, sucking it up, and putting on a smile.

 

I should clarify that I am most definitely not looking for anything long term; if anything, I'm taking a page out of Liz's book and aiming to stay single for quite a while. Jumping into a relationship quite literally two days into my college career means that I missed out on the fun of dating altogether.

 

My first step in rectifying this was going on a date Saturday. It was with a mutual friend of Liz and mine, but there's no need to read into that--it was completely harmless, with no romantic nor jealous intent. It was very simple, very pleasant, and very enjoyable.

 

The writings of "I <3 you" have been removed, and replaced with a small Post-It that reads "Letting go is love. Holding on is attachment."

 

I'm usually not one for motivational phrases, but it has helped. As a minimalist, it really holds a double meaning for me.

 

I feel that her two month trip to Iowa is fairly well timed. It's sort of an artificial way of getting that "mandatory post-breakup time apart", which is something I need if I'm going to make it over that hill. I'm thankful for it. I intend to use those two months to begin growing and developing more independence. And later in the fall semester, I intend on joining a particular club on campus that I'm really looking forward to.

 

Long story short, it's going to take a while, but I know I'm going to be alright. What really, really helped, is simply telling the story. And your advice has been icing on the cake. You've given me a reality check I severely needed.

 

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

[EthanH]

Hi, just read your entire post and I have to say it is one of the best I have read on here, maybe partly because many of the things you mention remind me so much of my own situation.

 

Firstly, I think you have to view your situation from as pragmatic a standpoint as possible. You have to see that 'liz' has all options available to her still at the moment, and you have none. That makes things so much easier for her. Granted it is difficult having so many options in her head, (to get back with you, or the Mormon guy or see who else comes along in the next year, or just be single and see what happens)... there are so many options, the best and most relaxing option is for her to just do nothing, as... she can. For you, you feel even now you have to wait. You talk about doing things for yourself, but in reality all you are doing is trying to fill the time while you are waiting and somehow taking value from that. The simple fact is, you are to her at the moment, a 'safety net' for her. This is shown by the way she talks about the 'future' for you both in such a blasé fashion, 'it might be you who i get married to'... I mean, the way she said all that stuff was as if it wasn't two of you making that decision, that if she wanted it, she would get it. And the worst part is, she is probably right, you would take her back, despite everything she has done. The problem is, it shouldn't be like that. The very reason she is doing this is because she has so very little respect for you. She would not be so blasé about things, she would not act in the way she has, if she didn't know you if you would accept it. She wouldn't have messed you around that weekend when you came back on the sunday if she didn't know you would be ok about things, she knew you would be back in your apartment when she chose to come back. I'm sure she is a very nice girl, I'm not saying anything against her, but very nice people do things which if they could see from above, if one of their friends did it, or they had it done to them, they would see as unfair and totally wrong. She is doing it because she can.

 

So I think you seriously need to look at the respect thing here. Do you honestly think she respects you? Even the whole 'I <3 you' while still saying she doesn't want to be with you is in my eyes disrespectful. Granted she might mean it, she probably does, but for her to tell you that, is just wrong, how does she think it makes you feel... good at first, but then again, it must have tore you up inside. The comment about a puppy... I mean, come on! she is toying with your emotions, and I don't think it is an excuse for her just to blame it on the fact she still likes you and has strong emotions for you.

 

ask yourself a few questions, how would she react, honestly, if you met someone else? You say you don't have many friends of your own. How would she react if you spent a lot of time with a girl she doesn't know? She saw your worries about the Mormon guy as misplaced, as your relationship was so unbalanced, and she didn't have the feeling of how it would feel to be in your position. So many people in her situation would say 'oh but i would be fine with you spending loads of time with a friend who is a girl' and it is a very admirable position, but until she is in that position, it is just words.

 

I also get the impression that essentially, your relationship became mundane for her. That is why she was confused, the Mormon guy was interesting to her, he probably seemed strong-willed, and without even really knowing you, I just think from your description of your relationship, you weren't way with her. You waited around for her. You were always there for her. You were clear with her about how much you liked her. You fell into the trap of what I would call a 'frumpy' relationship, you were just as happy to stay in with her as go out and have a crazy night out with her... and that is fine, she probably felt the same at the time, but that doesn't last when you are young... when something is put on a plate for you, it eventually loses its charm.

 

I also want to deal with the sex thing. I had a long term gf, she was my first proper serious gf, but I had been with quite a few girls before that. I look back now and realise how rubbish the sex was. I knew at the time, because the girls I had been with before were frankly better. But I was lulled into this false sense of believing that because I felt I loved this girl, that somehow things were more meaningful/better... in hindsight, I realise that was rubbish. If there isn't the spark there, you deserve better. I only realised that when i was with my last ex, it felt like worlds apart. BUT you have to see the whole sex side of things as related to your relationship... she lost interest as she stopped seeing you as the strong, independent guy she first fell for... she now saw you as a guy who was happy to stay in her room for a week... hardly that exciting you have to be honest.

 

I think you have to see this in a very specific way. The only way you are going to be happy with her is if she comes back to you because she wants to, and conversely, she is only going to be happy long term with you if she realises she has the drive to want to be with you...and most importantly, she is only going to get to that place if she respects you again...she might see you still there, think 'he is great, how can i doubt it' but that isn't enough, and it won't last... she has to have the passion to want to be with you...and that cannot come from you convincing her or persuading her, or doing things to look more attractive to her, it has to come from her...and the thing is, you cannot make that happen. Put yourself first as a person, stop acting like you want to date, stop all of that, be honest with yourself, put your effort into your studies (the one thing which you know will influence the rest of your life 100%) and if she comes back, great... if not, you will be a stronger person as a result of this...

Edited May 17, 2010 by EthanH

[Username123etc]

Ethan, your situation must be absurdly similar, because you're spot on about pretty much everything. The only exception concerns dating--before I had done it I felt it was just something I had to do, but it ended up being really enjoyable, and I'm very much looking forward to doing it again.