Wednesday's IC session and other stuff....

[Samantha0905]

I met with my counselor on Wednesday. I really feel like there's not much progress being made, so perhaps marriage counseling would be the answer. My counselor has suggested we head to marriage counseling.

 

In any event, I told my counselor about my husband's counselor again. He has sent home another "homework" assignment. Apparently, they've been discussing "The Five Love Languages." My husband's primary love language is physical -- and his counselor said most men have this as their primary love language. The counselor's first assignment for me was to take the quiz -- which I did. My primary love language is "Quality Time" according to the quiz, and my secondary love language is "Positive Affirmation." Apparently, most women come up with "Quality Time" as their primary love language. I will head out today to buy the book and read it. It's a much safer purchase than "When Good People Have Affairs."

 

I asked my own counselor about the book and he said although many times he doesn't care for those types of books, he thought this particular book is a good resource and it makes some valid points.

 

Well, that was all fine and good. However, after my counseling session and when my husband and I were on a walk yesterday he threw out another "assignment" his counselor suggested. We were just walking along and I'm always amazed at how awkward my husband seems when bringing stuff up to me. I'm really not that unapproachable -- in fact, most people say I'm very approachable -- including my husband. So, he spits out with apparently much awkwardness, "My counselor had another assignment for you!" I thought, "Oh boy" but asked, "What is it?"

 

My husband said since his primary love language is physical and he wants to have a physical relationship with me again, his counselor thinks I should make a list detailing what my husband has to do in order for us to have a sexual relationship again.

 

I am not making this list. I told my husband I didn't have a list of things he could specifically do in order for us to have sex again. My preference would have been for my husband to have had asked me way before now what is going on and us discussing it like two adults who have been married almost 28 years. There should be a level of intimacy developed in a long term relationship -- not a sense of total awkwardness.

 

It's not like I've been turning my husband down for sex repeatedly. He has not approached me for sex. I have not approached him. I did say to my husband I find it bizarre if he wants to have sex with me why he waited this long to bring it up. I don't understand why communicating is that damn difficult for us. And yes, I'm including myself in the lack of communication problem. I never understood why he didn't insist on talking about why I had moved out to an apartment.

 

Anyway, I'm sure what my husband is saying to me is "Honey, I want to have sex in our marriage." I would have preferred for him to have said, "Honey, I want to have sex in our marriage" or "Honey, I will not be in a sexless marriage", etc. I don't understand why he has to say, "My counselor said" and instead why he doesn't just SAY what's on his mind?

 

I feel cold even having these thoughts, but I do. It feels like I'm being pressured by my husband and his counselor as opposed to my husband and me just having a frank conversation about what is going on.

 

It all feels particularly unromantic also. I'm not sure what the answer is at this point. Do we just jump in bed and have sex? It will just be me having sex again without feeling physically attracted to him.

 

I believe I've mentioned this before also, but I think my husband has a premature ejaculation problem also -- has for years -- and that certainly didn't help the situation any. It would be nice if penetration could last longer than eight seconds. How does one approach that in a sensitive manner?

 

I did tell my husband I thought I had built up a lot of resentments over time with him telling me what I "could" and "could not" do like I was a child. I also told him I fully understand he can't go back and change the past. I explained I thought the lack of sexual desire on my part had something to do with that parent/child dynamic that had been created in our marriage.

 

I know I don't feel sexual towards my husband right now, although I do love him very much and think he's a wonderful person. What's totally bizarre about all of this is we go around and do things together lately -- and it's like we're getting along fine when we do stuff. It's not a hostile environment or anything. We're both amicable towards one another.

 

I'm simply asking for opinions here -- do any of you think marriage counseling can help with resolving this issue? I'm not particularly thrilled at the thought of announcing a total lack of sexual attraction to my spouse in counseling. My IC says I am going to have to say how I feel for us to move forward and he thinks doing this in a marriage counseling environment would probably be for the best.

 

To be honest, I'm tired of dealing with all of this in general. I think I feel totally burned out. Not asking for sympathy -- and I'm sure I won't get it -- I'm just expressing how I feel.

[Samantha0905]

And just as I finished that post, I received beautiful Mother's Day flowers from my husband. He's a very good person. I wish there were some sort of magic button to make all of this better. Maybe the response is just to suck it up, have sex with my husband and continuing doing things with friends, taking classes, etc. for self-fulfillment.

[xxoo]

I know I don't feel sexual towards my husband right now, although I do love him very much and think he's a wonderful person. What's totally bizarre about all of this is we go around and do things together lately -- and it's like we're getting along fine when we do stuff. It's not a hostile environment or anything. We're both amicable towards one another.

 

I'm simply asking for opinions here -- do any of you think marriage counseling can help with resolving this issue? I'm not particularly thrilled at the thought of announcing a total lack of sexual attraction to my spouse in counseling.

 

Sam, you've posted in other threads that you haven't felt sexually attracted to your H since your honeymoon--basically since the beginning of your sexual relationship. How could the two of you ever communicate without talking about this HUGE elephant in the room? You have to tell him. You should have told him years and years ago, but I'm guessing maybe you didn't know what you were missing in the early years.

 

You are wasting years with each other. He may STILL not know what he is missing! Be honest with him, as gently as possible...cut the poor man free....and let him find love and passion before it is too late. You've never been sexually attracted to him (since having sex with him), you never will be, and you are wasting his life if you don't let him know the truth.

[Just a stone's throw]

Here is your list - This would make a good start for opening up the dialogue with him, when you're ready to do so:

 

 

make a list detailing what my husband has to do in order for us to have a sexual relationship again.

 

I told my husband I didn't have a list of things he could specifically do in order for us to have sex again. (but you do, see below and I will paraphrase for you):

 

1. My preference would have been for my husband to have had asked me way before now what is going on and us discussing it like two adults who have been married almost 28 years. There should be a level of intimacy developed in a long term relationship -- not a sense of total awkwardness.

 

I don't understand why communicating is that damn difficult for us. And yes, I'm including myself in the lack of communication problem. I never understood why he didn't insist on talking about why I had moved out to an apartment. [i want us to communicate 1 on 1 about this, not through a counselor]

 

 

2. I feel cold even having these thoughts, but I do. It feels like I'm being pressured [by you and your counselor, it's uncomfortable and not sexually attractive to me, how do you propose we make that different]

 

3. I believe I've mentioned this before also, but I think my husband has a premature ejaculation problem also -- has for years -- and that certainly didn't help the situation any. It would be nice if penetration could last longer than eight seconds. How does one approach that in a sensitive manner? [i feel we have performance issues we need to deal with. I need US to figure out a way to make it last longer. That will make me happy]

 

4. I did tell my husband I thought I had built up a lot of resentments over time with him telling me what I "could" and "could not" do like I was a child. I also told him I fully understand he can't go back and change the past. I explained I thought the lack of sexual desire on my part had something to do with that parent/child dynamic that had been created in our marriage. [i don't feel comfortable expressing myself sexually without being judged by you. How can we change that?]

 

5. I know I don't feel sexual towards my husband right now, although I do love him very much and think he's a wonderful person. What's totally bizarre about all of this is we go around and do things together lately -- and it's like we're getting along fine when we do stuff. It's not a hostile environment or anything. We're both amicable towards one another. [i am unable right now to feel sexually attracted to you with all of these barriers and time that has passed. I want to because you have so many other wonderful qualities and I think we can get back to a point of desire, I can't do it alone though]

 

I would say both marriage and sex counseling would help. It's very clinical if you choose the right person and it helped my H and I a lot with very similar feelings. I had this convo with him. It was exptremely painful for both of us but we've made it through and are seriously improveing.

 

Good luck!

[Owl]

Sam, think about this for a minute.

 

Most men are actually very sensitive (read, insecure) about their 'performance' in this area. They do feel this as a facet of the love in their relationships...and when it's not going well in this area, it's very, very difficult for men to address it.

 

I garauntee that he can sense that you don't want him 'that way'. But he feels as tho he "needs" you that way at the sametime.

 

He's conflicted.

 

And he's got NO IDEA on how to approach you with this. How do you approach someone and ask them for something that you can sense that they don't want to do in the first place?

 

How do you initiate in this kind of situation? You've changed...he doesn't even know where to start anymore. And sensing that you're not into it just massively feeds into his insecurity...creating a deadly feedback loop. When he's insecure, he has performance issues. When he doesn't know how to start, he has performance issues. And when he has performance issues...it feeds BACK into that whole situation and makes those performance issues even WORSE.

 

The ONLY way to fix this would be for you to show him that you want him...and you don't.

 

What, SPECIFICALLY, can he do to fix this situation?

[JustJoe]

Sam, I usually support you, but in this case, I can't. You've stated in past posts, that you haven't been "turned on ', by your H since very early in your marriage. Did you EVER tell him this? So now you are frustrated that he can't "magically", become an object of your desire? Isn't that asking a bit much? You say that you want intimacy, but the most important intimate issue is that he does not arouse you to passion, and you have never told him so, after 20-some years of marriage. So you want to make your marriage work, but, in truth, you probably should never married at all. You can't make something out of nothing. Why not either have an open marriage or just bite the bullet, and divorce, and be friends, which is really what you two are now?

[Spark1111]

JAST, that was great! You have learned a lot about communicating with your SO in MC!

 

But Sam, I understand what you are saying too. I too, harbored some resentment in MC along the lines of "Why can't you just communicate it to me? Why do we need a stranger to arbitrate?"

 

But we do, and we did, and we are doing it again.

 

Given a chance, it starts to work.

[Luv2dance]

Well, I did admit to MH that I was not sexually attracted to him and that I wasn't sure I ever was, so I know how bad that SUCKS for both of you. He felt totally deflated, however we have not stopped having sex and in fact he stepping out of his comfort zone trying new "things". Some of this started before MC and before my "confession" but started b/c he felt me pulling away and he wanted to fight for me.

 

I will be honest...I'm not sure it's changing how I feel about him. It does still feel awkward and somewhat forced, but it is enjoyable. I know that seems weird and it is hard to explain. I guess I appreciate his trying and physically the act is better but I still miss the emotional intimacy.

 

Our MC recommended the book The Ten Minute Sexual Solution but we just got it and he is out of town so we haven't started reading it. I wish I could tell you that MC would help you but I still have days of doubt myself. I am fighting for my kids and to keep my family intact, and feel like if I can make it better then I will do everything to try.

 

It is VERY hard when you have a decent, hard working, caring man who loves you but it still doesn't seem like enough...sigh.

[Just a stone's throw]

Thanks, Spark but want to be clear (as I'm still not owning up to the A with my H and I want to be honest about what I can give advice on and what I don't feel I should) it was Sex counseling not MC as I admitted to him that I was not sexually attracted to him (and too had likely not felt that way for a very long time) and that wound us up in Sex counseling and I'm so glad it did.

 

JJ and Owl, it can improve and a desire can be created or recreated (IMHO). But it is work and though it's an embarrassing subject when you're not comfortable talking about it and it is a HUGE blow to the man's ego, it is one way of getting there.

[Luv2dance]

Sam, think about this for a minute.

 

Most men are actually very sensitive (read, insecure) about their 'performance' in this area. They do feel this as a facet of the love in their relationships...and when it's not going well in this area, it's very, very difficult for men to address it.

 

I garauntee that he can sense that you don't want him 'that way'. But he feels as tho he "needs" you that way at the sametime.

 

He's conflicted.

 

And he's got NO IDEA on how to approach you with this. How do you approach someone and ask them for something that you can sense that they don't want to do in the first place?

 

How do you initiate in this kind of situation? You've changed...he doesn't even know where to start anymore. And sensing that you're not into it just massively feeds into his insecurity...creating a deadly feedback loop. When he's insecure, he has performance issues. When he doesn't know how to start, he has performance issues. And when he has performance issues...it feeds BACK into that whole situation and makes those performance issues even WORSE.

 

The ONLY way to fix this would be for you to show him that you want him...and you don't.

 

What, SPECIFICALLY, can he do to fix this situation?

 

YES...MH has said as much to me! When the man is the lower libido(less adventurous) spouse and has been told they aren't doing it for the higher libido spouse it is a very sticky situation.

[Owl]

Thanks, Spark but want to be clear (as I'm still not owning up to the A with my H and I want to be honest about what I can give advice on and what I don't feel I should) it was Sex counseling not MC as I admitted to him that I was not sexually attracted to him (and too had likely not felt that way for a very long time) and that wound us up in Sex counseling and I'm so glad it did.

 

JJ and Owl, it can improve and a desire can be created or recreated (IMHO). But it is work and though it's an embarrassing subject when you're not comfortable talking about it and it is a HUGE blow to the man's ego, it is one way of getting there.

 

I agree that it can improve...my wife and I have dealt with similar issues during our marriage as well.

 

But I would say that it's probably well worth recognizing that he's TRYING to address the issue...awkwardly agreed, and apparently not in the manner that Samantha would prefer...but the fact that he's even trying to do so is pretty darned huge.

 

And he's trying to fix things without even knowing what the heck has gone on in his marriage...he's trying to do so while blindfolded and handicapped without knowing that he's being compared to OM. He doesn't know about the affair, so any effort he makes to change things is going to be done without that knowledge.

 

Right now...he IS still competing with OM...even if its just her memories of OM...and he doesn't even know it.

 

But regardless, Sam...how can he fix this situation?

 

What, SPECIFIC STEPS, does he need to be taking to help you regain your 'interest' in him and get you to want to meet his 'need' here?

[califnan]

It is true as one of the posters has pointed out - that the lack of sexual attraction that you feel for your husband, has seemed to become a huge elephant.. and it all comes down to that.

 

And, I am with you in that I have no idea how other people in your lives (the church counselor and a potential MC) dissecting the love-making part is going to make the two of you any less inhibited in your relationship.

 

Maybe the two of you need a Trip ...............a Good (startover) Trip ... ha (happyface) ..

[JustJoe]

So "Stones", you're not ready to be honest with your husband, but you are ready to tear down his ego? So now he thinks that it's his sexual problem, and still doesn't know that you are a cheater. Could you be more selfish? You can't be honest with your spouse, but you're worried about giving honest advice to posters on a website? With all due respect, your priorities are totally screwed. Sam, you seem to have a head on your shoulders, so be straight up with him and tell him about the sexual problem. "Stones", did make one good point, maybe you need sex therapy, instead of marriage counseling? Could be......isn't it worth a try?

[califnan]

uh.. huh ..

 

You say what counselor is going to send him home with a list.. I say what counselor is going to tell him to throw her down on the bed and "do her" ... you've been watching too many soap operas .. ha

 

Her husband's counselor is obviously taking a non comunicative man who acts like he wants to have sex with his wife, and sending him home from school to ask Samantha: why can't he have sex with her .. ha - while at the same time, putting her in a corner ..

 

Now all of the counselors and all of the kings men and Samantha and her husband have to try to figure out why Samantha isn't attracted to her husband - after she discloses this ..

[Chrome Barracuda]

Hey, so if he takes it, she resents him more and feels like he raped her. Then what?

 

My advice she's the one who had the affair and is still in the affair mindset.

 

She cant reclaim the feelings of love and attraction, she also claim she hasnt felt that way since her wedding night? WTf I would have got a divorce and been on my merry way screwing everything in sight that wasnt tied down!!!

 

Bottom line this man probably truly does love her, because samantha doesnt get it!!!!

 

Or he just doesnt understand how detached his wife is...

 

She's not even trying!!! She hasnt even tried to make love to him, not one speck!

 

Has sam ever told her husband hey let's just screw and see what happens?

Does she think of someone else? I mean sam, let's face facts your husband's a great man, but maybe your such a damn sucky wife! I mean you claim you havent felt feelings for him in years than why are you wasting his time? Why the affair? Why are you holding him back from being with some great woman who can reciprocate his love. All you have done is take, take , take.

 

...What have you EVER given back?

 

Just enlighten us. please.

[califnan]

Samantha thinks her husband should make the first move, or at Least discuss it with her ..

[Chrome Barracuda]

...Why should he even try, she's just gonna reject him again. I mean what she's been rejecting him for YEARS! lol. sad but that's what she's doing.

[califnan]

...Why should he even try, she's just gonna reject him again. I mean what she's been rejecting him for YEARS! lol. sad but that's what she's doing.

 

-------------------

 

Yes. I believe that years of this, has made the two of them inhibited, maybe..

[califnan]

...Why should he even try, she's just gonna reject him again. I mean what she's been rejecting him for YEARS! lol. sad but that's what she's doing.

 

----------------

 

But, when I think about it, I don't know that she has been rejecting him.. I forgot why they didn't have sex after she moved back from the apartment ..

[Just a stone's throw]

I thought that too but as it turns out, with the "talk, talk, talk" and understanding each others wants, needs you can have a very fullfilling sex life because at the base of it is a love between two individuals that has been there for many years.

[bananalaffytaffy]

Sex means different things to different people. For some, sex isn't about "getting off", it's about bonding with their partner. Perhaps samantha's husband is simply asking how to get closer to her. One way he does this is through making love.

 

What I'm saying is that Samantha needs to think about what the sex REALLY represents to her husband. He's asking for more than just sex.

[Woggle]

If he just takes it that is legally rape.

 

I still stand by my view that she should just divorce him and be fair in court. This marriage is dying a slow and painful and it is better to just put it out of it's misery.

[bentnotbroken]

If he just takes it that is legally rape.

 

I still stand by my view that she should just divorce him and be fair in court. This marriage is dying a slow and painful and it is better to just put it out of it's misery.

 

 

The humane thing would be to end it.

[califnan]

Sex means different things to different people. For some, sex isn't about "getting off", it's about bonding with their partner. Perhaps samantha's husband is simply asking how to get closer to her. One way he does this is through making love.

 

What I'm saying is that Samantha needs to think about what the sex REALLY represents to her husband. He's asking for more than just sex.

 

-------------------

 

Yes.. And she has mentioned that they are doing more things together, and it has been pleasant.. which also seems to be a good step in the right direction ..

[califnan]

......and you're quite correct Banana.. in marriage it is supposed to be: "making love" ..