Control

[Gunny376]

I'm a well formally and informally educated individual. I have an extensive personal library, and a library card that I use weekly!

 

I'm an expert with the M-16, M-14, M-50. M-30. Mark 19, the caliber .45 and the 9 mil pistol

 

You've never wasted a 14 or 15 year year old Iraqi kid that was trying to kill you! Or one that you thought you would!

 

MSNC that was trying to waste you, and you wasted them instead of taking the chance ~ and all they wanted was chocolate or an MRE

 

 

MSNBC and Fox news be damned!

 

Then-unemployment rate for discharging veteras from Iraq amd Afghigastion" I s 25 to 30%

[trippi1432]

I'm a well formally and informally educated individual. I have an extensive personal library, and a library card that I use weekly!

 

I'm an expert with the M-16, M-14, M-50. M-30. Mark 19, the caliber .45 and the 9 mil pistol

 

You've never wasted a 14 or 15 year year old Iraqi kid that was trying to kill you! Or one that you thought you would!

 

MSNC that was trying to waste you, and you wasted them instead of taking the chance ~ and all they wanted was chocolate or an MRE

 

 

MSNBC and Fox news be damned!

 

Then-unemployment rate for discharging veteras from Iraq amd Afghigastion" I s 25 to 30%

 

I have no doubts in my mind Gunny of the hell you went through and are still going through. And no, not many of us have had to be in your position. I'm reading what you sent me, the piece from Rolling Stone...but honestly, I can only take in a little at a time. You are right, sends women crying and it's heartbreaking.

 

Remember I told you about my step-father going out on the porch to watch lightening because it reminded him of the Vietnam War? Again, he won't talk about it, but he will say that it reminds him of the Vietnam night sky. They weren't well accepted when they came home, he said that hurt the most.

[You Go Girl]

YGG - I will have to go back and look at your thread, I think our stories are a little similar and you are in the anger stage I was in 9 months ago.

 

Something that has been nagging me since my previous post on the Trust versus Mistrust issue....my STBXH and I were together a total of 16 years (almost, 4 yr anniversary would have been last month). With everything, and I do mean every hurtful thing we put each other through...how does a relationship that is this dysfunctional go on for so long....at what point did my mental lack of understanding go totally out the window?

 

I gave up in my marriage, because he was "broken" and I couldn't fix him....what I failed to realize was that I was broken too. Truth is, it wasn't my job to fix him, but it was my job to fix myself.

 

Looking at where mistrust will get to...shame and doubt. Why we finally got married after being engaged for 12 years was because I felt that he had not given up on me. I did that to me, that was my thinking at the time. Honestly, looking back at that time, his reaction was little more than sure....guess we should. He was pretty much embarrassed of introducing me as his fiance' for all those years to his co-workers. Eventually he got pretty embarrassed of introducing his overweight wife to his co-workers as well.....so much for having wedding pics airbrushed over to make me look like a model. I will admit, I was an embarrassment to my STBXH and there were times when he was an embarrassment to me with his drinking behavior.

 

YGG - Here is the side of the Shame thinking.....you "roommate" may be at shame for his actions, but he may actually be thinking along a healthy line of thinking...I got drunk and/or watched some porn, something bad happened, I did something wrong, I made a mistake. You may be on the other side of this thinking, the unhealthy side which equates he got drunk and looked at porn again, I am bad, I am wrong, I am a mistake (he wants those other girls instead of me). Thinking along those lines and looking back at your post yesterday.....how does that fit or does it?

 

I'm really enjoying this thread, trippi. I realize I still have much work to do on me.

I'm not angry, not anymore. I was extremely angry for years. I couldn't understand the disconnect he was creating with our intimacy. I couldn't understand why he was creating this barrier wall between us, when I thought the only reason I married him was because we were all about US.

 

If I told anyone the extreme traumas that he went through as a child, they would understand why he thinks he is a mistake, why he thinks he is broken. None of these things were because of abuse at home-his parents were decent people. I'd publish what happened to him here, but I'm afraid enough of my personal life details are on this forum that somebody could recognize me or him, so I won't say what those traumas were. Just to say that none were his fault, all were crushingly debilitating. He had 4 MAJOR traumas happen to him by the time he was 17. Honestly, I think a lot of people would cry if they heard what happened to him. He's just a big teddy bear that punishes himself daily. He learned at an early age that he had to keep his eyes open and that authority figures, as one example, couldn't be trusted, neither could his own body which betrayed him, nor a so-called friend. He learned just how cruel the world could be by the time he was 10.

None of this has anything to do with me. But, I married someone that I knew on some level felt --beaten.

He knows full well what his drinking binges and porn binges do to him and to me--well, used to do to me, as I'm completely detached from his behavior now. He hates himself on some level.

As for me--it's all been about me coming down hard on him, and then feeling like I am not taking care of the beaten up teddy bear. That I am at fault for not being compassionate after all that I know has happened to him in his life, after all he has done to make my life comfortable. In Al-anon I am called the opposite of the enabler--the provoker. I have moved out of this phase, thankfully. I have detached. Unfortunately for the marriage, that meant emotional detachment at a level unable to sustain the marriage.

As for your part in the disentegration of your marriage--your reference to lack of understanding and dysfunctional relationship--it's a downward spiral, isn't it? One outrageous step at a time. Stories that others would hear and just say "really crazy relationship". They don't understand how we got there one twisted psychological move at a time.

He was an alcoholic porn addict before i married him. It has nothing to do with me. The part that does have to do with me was the utter depression I went into in finding that our intimacy wasn't true like I thought it was, and I blamed him, because I was holding up my half. I still know I was holding up my half. There was something there that wasn't right in me though--something that led me to a false sense of security with him, and to marry him. Denial?

[Med]

"Many of us have been trying to keep the whole world in orbit with sheer and forceful application of mental energy.

 

What happens if we let go, if we stop trying to keep the world orbiting and just let it whirl? It'll keep right on track with no help from us. And we'll be free and relaxed enough to enjoy our place on it.

 

Control is an illusion, especially the kind of control we've been trying to exert. In fact, controlling gives other people, events, and diseases, such as alcoholism, control over us. Whatever we try to control does have control over us and our life.

 

 

I recommend you & to others who maybe interested in a book titled "The Celestine Prophecy" It talks a lot about controlling dramas on chapter three "The struggle for power & a lot more, i thought people on here may find this book helpful in dealing with relationships. It did for me.

[trippi1432]

I'm really enjoying this thread, trippi. I realize I still have much work to do on me.

I'm not angry, not anymore. I was extremely angry for years. I couldn't understand the disconnect he was creating with our intimacy. I couldn't understand why he was creating this barrier wall between us, when I thought the only reason I married him was because we were all about US.

 

If I told anyone the extreme traumas that he went through as a child, they would understand why he thinks he is a mistake, why he thinks he is broken. None of these things were because of abuse at home-his parents were decent people. I'd publish what happened to him here, but I'm afraid enough of my personal life details are on this forum that somebody could recognize me or him, so I won't say what those traumas were. Just to say that none were his fault, all were crushingly debilitating. He had 4 MAJOR traumas happen to him by the time he was 17. Honestly, I think a lot of people would cry if they heard what happened to him. He's just a big teddy bear that punishes himself daily. He learned at an early age that he had to keep his eyes open and that authority figures, as one example, couldn't be trusted, neither could his own body which betrayed him, nor a so-called friend. He learned just how cruel the world could be by the time he was 10.

None of this has anything to do with me. But, I married someone that I knew on some level felt --beaten.

He knows full well what his drinking binges and porn binges do to him and to me--well, used to do to me, as I'm completely detached from his behavior now. He hates himself on some level.

As for me--it's all been about me coming down hard on him, and then feeling like I am not taking care of the beaten up teddy bear. That I am at fault for not being compassionate after all that I know has happened to him in his life, after all he has done to make my life comfortable. In Al-anon I am called the opposite of the enabler--the provoker. I have moved out of this phase, thankfully. I have detached. Unfortunately for the marriage, that meant emotional detachment at a level unable to sustain the marriage.

As for your part in the disentegration of your marriage--your reference to lack of understanding and dysfunctional relationship--it's a downward spiral, isn't it? One outrageous step at a time. Stories that others would hear and just say "really crazy relationship". They don't understand how we got there one twisted psychological move at a time.

He was an alcoholic porn addict before i married him. It has nothing to do with me. The part that does have to do with me was the utter depression I went into in finding that our intimacy wasn't true like I thought it was, and I blamed him, because I was holding up my half. I still know I was holding up my half. There was something there that wasn't right in me though--something that led me to a false sense of security with him, and to marry him. Denial?

 

Yes, YGG....there is his side to the story. I feel for you and for him as my STBXH had a horrible, horrible childhood as well. It was one of the main reasons that he could not relate to his own son. By the age of 10, my STBXH was already on his way to being an alcoholic. As you, that all came before me and the story was, I only drink every once in a while...just when the games on....etc. It wasn't until much later that I found out he was a blackout drunk.

 

I did al-anon (before our son was even born) and he went to one AA meeting and claimed himself cured. Three months later, after catching him kissing another woman (who equated to a prostitute), I sold everything in the house that was mine and left town with my daughter and 8 months pregnant. At the last minute, he decided to leave with me and get away from the influences that kept that disease going in him.

 

The rest of the story just repeats itself in this vicious cycle. Where I may have failed him, knowing his past....knowing his triggers and hot buttons, was by using those to show my displeasure of how our personal life was going. He did the same....many times....we did this to each other over and over again.

 

Going back to the opening quote of this thread:

"Control is an illusion, especially the kind of control we've been trying to exert. In fact, controlling gives other people, events, and diseases, such as alcoholism, control over us. Whatever we try to control does have control over us and our life.

 

(Author) have given this control to many things and people in my life. (Author) have never gotten the results (Author) wanted from controlling or trying to control people. What (Author) received for (the) efforts is an unmanageable life, whether that unmanageability was inside me or in external events. (Beattie, 1990)

 

Beattie, M. (1990). Control. In M. Beattie, The Language of Letting Go, Daily Meditations on Codependency (p. 125). Center City: Hazelden Publishing.

 

A higher power did not put me on this Earth to take on all the world's problems, to take on my STBXH's childhood issues (it was within my power to love him in spite of them or let go when it got to be too hurtful), I'm not here to fix everything at work for everyone who has the means, know-how and empowerment to do it for themselves. I am in control of me, how I feel, how I react, what boundaries I will set and who I will let into my life. My function in this life to be a mother, a care-giver to my parents, a friend, an ear to listen, a source of information (but not the go-to girl at work), I should expect nothing less from the person that I will love one day to treat me with respect, love and trust without conditions and that is my function to give those things back without conditions.

 

Knowing now what I do about myself allows me to give pause before I react. To make better decisions, to not act so impulsively due to fear or anger. Getting acknowledgement from my parents for the pains in my childhood have helped to appease the inner child that caused me so much misery...it can allow that part of me to be fun again...without being destructive. If my STBXH would ever go down this path of enlightenment for himself he may have found the answer for his admission that he didn't treat me well, but didn't know why. I can now take that shame and doubt off of myself as well and finally stop that cycle of victim/survivor.....it's time to overcome.

[trippi1432]

I recommend you & to others who maybe interested in a book titled "The Celestine Prophecy" It talks a lot about controlling dramas on chapter three "The struggle for power & a lot more, i thought people on here may find this book helpful in dealing with relationships. It did for me.

 

Interesting, thanks Med....I will look into it. Welcome....btw.

[You Go Girl]

If my STBXH would ever go down this path of enlightenment for himself he may have found the answer for his admission that he didn't treat me well, but didn't know why. I can now take that shame and doubt off of myself as well and finally stop that cycle of victim/survivor.....it's time to overcome.

 

If my tbxh (can't say soon at this point) would go down the path of enlightenment, honestly, I'd just burst into tears. Not of sadness, but that somehow the pain would be lifted for both of us.

It hurts to watch another hurt themself. That's so very true without regard to anything he did to me, which was not malicious in intent, although at times childish and passive-agressive.

Getting rid of the doubt is the most difficult. Somehow, I think, I brought this all on myself. And I still haven't overcome that.

 

Last night he asked me when I was going to move.

Today he left porn up on the computer, and his used tissue in the toilet, as is his habit lately.

Banged around in the kitchen for awhile--he likes to cook and drink at the same time--and then went to watch a movie and was asleep from the alcohol as always on the weekends by 2 p.m. or earlier, as his drinking starts with cognac in his coffee.

I'm not angry about any of this. But it does create A LOT of tension in me. I left the house and escaped for awhile. I can detach, but I can't pretend that I don't see what is going on around me, and he knows that.

[Steadfast]

Trippi, Guns, YGG, etc;

 

I only mentioned the children in control issues because it's easy for me to grasp. See, I was controlling...thought I was in control, or in command. Whatever. My ex very much resented this authority and influence, yet, I feel it would be worse (and my my ex's own admission, it would have been) if I'd have taken on the Wilbur Milktoast role. Whoever though up 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' was one smart cookie, but being right or wrong means nothing in a relationship if respect and love are missing.

 

Respect, love, trust, forgiveness. Remove one element and you're sunk. Bottom line, you have to be a real grown up to survive this marriage deal.

 

Then of course Trippi, is the famous and oh so powerful 'reverse control'. That's when one partner uses the love and desire of the other against them. Hope and love and strong bonds, fortified by the investment of time. The other can really take a long, painful walk all over you, knowing you'll take it because...you LOVE THEM. But, I ask you (really asking!) when does love turn into something else? When does it turn us into something else?

[trippi1432]

Trippi, Guns, YGG, etc;

 

I only mentioned the children in control issues because it's easy for me to grasp. See, I was controlling...thought I was in control, or in command. Whatever. My ex very much resented this authority and influence, yet, I feel it would be worse (and my my ex's own admission, it would have been) if I'd have taken on the Wilbur Milktoast role. Whoever though up 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' was one smart cookie, but being right or wrong means nothing in a relationship if respect and love are missing.

 

Respect, love, trust, forgiveness. Remove one element and you're sunk. Bottom line, you have to be a real grown up to survive this marriage deal.

 

Then of course Trippi, is the famous and oh so powerful 'reverse control'. That's when one partner uses the love and desire of the other against them. Hope and love and strong bonds, fortified by the investment of time. The other can really take a long, painful walk all over you, knowing you'll take it because...you LOVE THEM. But, I ask you (really asking!) when does love turn into something else? When does it turn us into something else?

 

Good question Steadfast, I don't know. I assume that you are asking when do the stages of love happen, when do you as a person evolve to the next realization of truth in who you are and see your partner in a new light, a new loving light....the stages of a long and successful marriage.

 

I can't answer that for you, sorry. You see, I've never had those four elements in my 15 year relationship, nor my six year relationship with my first husband. I can say that I see my STBXH in a new light today with the positive changes that he has made in his life. But they weren't changes that I was responsible for...he did those for himself.

 

I don't know if that helps or even answers your question.

[Gunny376]

I have no doubts in my mind Gunny of the hell you went through and are still going through. And no, not many of us have had to be in your position. I'm reading what you sent me, the piece from Rolling Stone...but honestly, I can only take in a little at a time. You are right, sends women crying and it's heartbreaking.

 

Remember I told you about my step-father going out on the porch to watch lightening because it reminded him of the Vietnam War? Again, he won't talk about it, but he will say that it reminds him of the Vietnam night sky. They weren't well accepted when they came home, he said that hurt the most.

 

The arch lights ! The artillery

 

I'm sorry that I made you cry by posting "Killer Eliite" Apparfently Roling Stone has pulled part II and III from the internet. Too politically intcotect!

 

Aparently MARINES aren't to kill Islanic extremenits that want to kill incocent women and children in Times Square

Edited May 9, 2010 by Gunny376

[witabix]

I have enjoyed reading this thread. A lot of thought provoking stuff.

 

I don't have anything much to add except that some of my experiences mirror some of the words on here.

 

Time to think and read again.

[You Go Girl]

Trippi, Guns, YGG, etc;

 

Respect, love, trust, forgiveness. Remove one element and you're sunk. Bottom line, you have to be a real grown up to survive this marriage deal.

 

Then of course Trippi, is the famous and oh so powerful 'reverse control'. That's when one partner uses the love and desire of the other against them. Hope and love and strong bonds, fortified by the investment of time. The other can really take a long, painful walk all over you, knowing you'll take it because...you LOVE THEM. But, I ask you (really asking!) when does love turn into something else? When does it turn us into something else?

 

Am I the only cynic here trippi--or did steadfast mean the exact opposite? When does love turn into a control or negative thing, or turn us into something else than a loving partner?

For me, it was when some of those 4 elements were found lacking. Respect was definitely lacking with secrets and being lied to. And maybe what I was being lied to about--doesn't matter at all. I felt the need to rebalance what was out of balance. The trust I withheld separately. If I was going to be lied to repeatedly, then it was at my discretion when and ever to trust again. It wasn't even spoken of. I see my marriage lacked all elements after a year and a half in except the love. Trying to survive on the love alone was a painful road. I never forgave because there was never remorse nor change of behavior.

And that's how I ended up trying to control something that I couldn't. Lastly, years later, I withheld the love. What other choice does one have when the other elements go missing for years?

So, perhaps we try to rebalance what is out of balance, thinking the other person will come around to our point of view, or see it for themselves. Whatever method works to accomplish that--not seeing it necessarily in our point of view--but that something is out of balance--nothing I tried worked.

It's up to each person individually to see that something is out of balance in a relationship, even if we bring what we think is an imbalance to their attention. And as with any problem whatsoever in a marriage--if the other person prefers the imbalance, the game can go no further because it's stalemate. (chess reference-nobody can win).

Control is about wanting it MY WAY.

Bottom line if there's no progress--accept, or leave.

[trippi1432]

Am I the only cynic here trippi--or did steadfast mean the exact opposite? When does love turn into a control or negative thing, or turn us into something else than a loving partner?

For me, it was when some of those 4 elements were found lacking. Respect was definitely lacking with secrets and being lied to. And maybe what I was being lied to about--doesn't matter at all. I felt the need to rebalance what was out of balance. The trust I withheld separately. If I was going to be lied to repeatedly, then it was at my discretion when and ever to trust again. It wasn't even spoken of. I see my marriage lacked all elements after a year and a half in except the love. Trying to survive on the love alone was a painful road. I never forgave because there was never remorse nor change of behavior.

And that's how I ended up trying to control something that I couldn't. Lastly, years later, I withheld the love. What other choice does one have when the other elements go missing for years?

So, perhaps we try to rebalance what is out of balance, thinking the other person will come around to our point of view, or see it for themselves. Whatever method works to accomplish that--not seeing it necessarily in our point of view--but that something is out of balance--nothing I tried worked.

It's up to each person individually to see that something is out of balance in a relationship, even if we bring what we think is an imbalance to their attention. And as with any problem whatsoever in a marriage--if the other person prefers the imbalance, the game can go no further because it's stalemate. (chess reference-nobody can win).

Control is about wanting it MY WAY.

Bottom line if there's no progress--accept, or leave.

 

True, there are two sides to the question Steadfast asks, the optimistic answer of real love and the stages and the pessimistic of when did I see that things would never change and want out. Due to my my therapy, been trying to stay away from negative thoughts this weekend.

 

Honestly Steadfast, I knew that I wanted out very shortly after I got pregnant with our son, 14 years ago. Why did I stay for all those years, even when I had more than the means to leave him (had even tried once at 8 months pregnant but relented and let him come with me)....because there were times I loved him and times I didn't. We often joked about his Jeckyl/Hyde personality (evil twin). Is that control? Who had control? Was the control in my hands and me manipulating him, or him manipulating me....I don't know. We were both manipulating in the relationship, and yes, it didn't take long to turn into something else....a person who rarely cared anymore, someone who turned inward and bottled the pain...but I can't blame my reactions on him and how he treated me....nor can I blame his reactions on me and how I treated him.

 

We were two broken people trying to have a relationship....although his first real relationship, there was much of his past that was made him so much different to my "upbringing". Families sat at the kitchen table and shared their day (they weren't told to shut up and eat, we don't talk at the kitchen table). Adults didn't put their arms around their plate in a guarding fashion and act like a caveman at the dinner table. You weren't screamed at for being in the kitchen when you were looking for a snack, and you didn't fuss if someone showed up unexpectedly for dinner, you fed them. A woman didn't have to threaten have to threaten the man who claimed to love her if he let the door slam in her face one more time while she was carrying his child, a child seat and a diaper bag....and a woman didn't have to call an ambulance or her parent's to take her to the hospital when she was hurt because the man who supposedly loved her didn't want to be bothered and was resentful for being disturbed.

 

On my side, I couldn't relate to any of this...the more things happened, the more I pulled into myself. Would hide away in a dark room with my music and just rock back and forth like I did when my parent's divorced. Shut myself away, shut my self off....because from my past, I didn't know how to deal with it. I didn't learn conflict resolution....never heard my parent's fight. I thought manipulation and control were parts of being loved and being hated due to being sexually abused since the age of six. I thought that emotional abuse was a normal part of being loved. It's not to say that I didn't like any of this. I blamed myself, thought of myself as such a bad person that this was exactly what I deserved. And for him to stay with me for so long as hard as I am to get along with, as much of a pain in the a** that I am, I was lucky to have him in my life. Was even told that by both of my parents, while out the other side of their mouth they would ask me why I stayed with him by the way he treated me.

 

Hindsight being 20/20 - We were both already something else before the relationship....nothing really changed in those 15 years except being broken making us worse to each other. Tried Al-anon, AA, MC, IC....he was always against it and I guess it's something that I should have done for myself a long time ago. Maybe I could have turned it around had I known myself better and realized that I was broken too. In honesty....my hope was to fix him, show him a side of life that he had never known as a child. Instead, I became the nurturing spouse, I became the role of the mother and he became the rebellious child.

 

So, in answer to your question, I think it's different for everyone as YGG says in her post.....it's when you "wake" up to things that are missing from those four elements you mention. When you realize there is no balance. Stupidly, I would have stayed and continued to be out of whack, but might have gotten to my own self-awareness one day within the marriage....maybe turned it around. Maybe he would have reached the self-awareness he is at today within our marriage and turned it around. The fact is, it took him walking out to send me on this journey and it took him realizing the grass isn't greener so he would have to be the one to change to make it work with his new GF.

[trippi1432]

"Love yourself into health and a good life of your own.

Love yourself into relationships that work for you and the other person. Love yourself into peace, happiness, joy, success, and contentment.

Love yourself into all that you always wanted. We can stop treating ourselves the way other treated us, if they behaved in a less than healthy, desirable way. If we have learned to see ourselves critically, conditionally, and in a diminishing and punishing way, it’s time to stop. Other people treated us that way, but it’s even worse to treat ourselves that way now.

Loving ourselves may seem foreign, even foolish at times. People may accuse us of being selfish. We don’t have to believe them.

People who love themselves are truly able to love other and let others love them. People who love themselves and hold themselves in high esteem are those who give the most, contribute the most, love the most.

How do we love ourselves? By forcing it at first. By faking it if necessary. By “acting as if.” By working as hard at loving and liking ourselves as we have as not liking ourselves.

Explore what it means to love yourself.

Do things for yourself that reflect compassionate, nurturing, self-love.

Embrace and love all of yourself – past, present, and future. Forgive yourself quickly and as often as necessary. Encourage yourself. Tell yourself good things about yourself.

If we thing and believe negative ideas, get them out in the open quickly and honestly, so we can replace those beliefs with better ones.

Pat yourself on the back when necessary. Discipline yourself when necessary. Ask for help, for time; ask for what you need.

Sometimes, give yourself treats. Do not treat yourself like a pack mule, always pushing and driving harder. Learn to be good to yourself. Choose behaviors with preferable consequences – treating yourself well is one.

Learn to stop your pain, even when that means making difficult decisions. Do not unnecessarily deprive yourself. Sometimes, give yourself what you want, just because you want it.

Stop explaining and justifying yourself. When you make mistakes, let them go. We learn, we grow, and we learn some more. And through it all, we love ourselves.

We work at it, the work at it some more. One day we’ll wake up, look in the mirror, and find that loving ourselves has become habitual. We’re now living with a person who gives and receives love, because that person loves him – or herself. Self-love will take hold and become a guiding force in our life.

Today, I will work at loving myself. I will work as hard at loving myself as I have at not liking myself. Help me let go of self-hate and behaviors that reflect not liking myself. Help me replace those with behaviors that reflect self-love. Today, my (my higher spirit), help me hold myself in high-esteem. Help me know I’m lovable and capable of giving and receiving love.” (Beattie, 1990)

 

Beattie, M. (1990). Loving Ourselves Unconditionally. In M. Beattie, The Language of Letting Go, Daily Meditations on Codependency (pp. 143-145). Center City: Hazelden Publishing.

[trippi1432]

My Dad sent me this message on Facebook this morning...I've worked and worked to make him proud of me...I turned down a very lucrative severance package to leave my company two years ago (even though I saw the writing on the wall and had a feeling that staying would lead me to the path that I am at now).

 

Remember, your journey through life is your choice and you have the right to change it as many times as you like.

 

Strangely enough, we all seek affirmations from our parents on living our lives....we want to make them proud and do the right things. We don't want to fail in their eyes....even though we know that parents are not perfect themselves.

 

It's time to make some very big changes in my life to find the inner peace I am looking for...that includes asking for a severance package from my company....I have a 2 year plan, but I know that it will bring me more happiness than what I have right now.

 

New life, new journey.....no longer a doormat!!

[Steadfast]

It was a legitimate question but bated, I admit. My views on control are only mine; how I see and relate to what I've experienced and learned. A few posts back I said; 'mistakes and still mistakes, no matter how good the intentions'. This is obviously a personal slant, but it's shared by many.

 

 

In honesty....my hope was to fix him, show him a side of life that he had never known as a child. Instead, I became the nurturing spouse, I became the role of the mother and he became the rebellious child.

 

 

Yeah...I think this happens more than most folks are willing to admit.

 

It took me a long time to realize that I was trying to control (or fix) something that I not only had no hope of fixing, but no right either. My ex-wife's resentment of me has faded now that she's experienced the world's indifference (as opposed to someone who really loves and cares) but that wasn't enough to inspire real change. That's another way of saying her selfishness was and is the strongest motivator. We both realized at some point that her issues really were hers. She realized it and stopped blaming me (which was convenient) and I left her to work on them alone.

 

Mind you I have issues of my own, but they did not inspire the conflict and radical damage her decisions did. In the end, that's usually the difference between people. Author Michelle Langley (Women's Infidelity) once wrote that she'd rather be married to someone who could admit they were capable of cheating (but chose not to) instead of someone who would 'never do such a thing'. To me, that's where trust and forgiveness come strongly into play.

 

How many of us truly love (or loved) our spouses, as opposed to loving who we hope they are?

[1Angel]

It would be fantastic if everyone put this much effort into healing and rebuilding before jumping right into another relationship!

Please keep posting this is good stuff. Thnx.

[trippi1432]

It would be fantastic if everyone put this much effort into healing and rebuilding before jumping right into another relationship!

Please keep posting this is good stuff. Thnx.

 

I like your avatar 1Angel.

 

Honestly, the effort doesn't come from wanting to find another relationship or ever having one in the future.....it's the relationship within myself that has been missing for so long that I cannot trust myself to know fantasy from reality.

 

Rick Carson wrote a very simple book called Taming your own Gremlin, it's about getting out of your own way....sort of reminds me to Who Moved My Cheese.

 

My Gremlins....The Artist...the one who can't finish a song....says she is going to take guitar lessons or at least play her guitar and learn by ear like her daddy did. Gives away the guitar to ensure that she doesn't meet the self-defeating prophesy (plus I love my daddy and he played it better).

 

Ah, and the ever loving Little Miss What-the-H*ll....my favorite....the one who will never have control over her life as she doesn't know what self-control is.

 

It's actually a good little read...not too long and simple.

[trippi1432]

It was a legitimate question but bated, I admit. My views on control are only mine; how I see and relate to what I've experienced and learned. A few posts back I said; 'mistakes and still mistakes, no matter how good the intentions'. This is obviously a personal slant, but it's shared by many.

 

 

 

Yeah...I think this happens more than most folks are willing to admit.

 

It took me a long time to realize that I was trying to control (or fix) something that I not only had no hope of fixing, but no right either. My ex-wife's resentment of me has faded now that she's experienced the world's indifference (as opposed to someone who really loves and cares) but that wasn't enough to inspire real change. That's another way of saying her selfishness was and is the strongest motivator. We both realized at some point that her issues really were hers. She realized it and stopped blaming me (which was convenient) and I left her to work on them alone.

 

Mind you I have issues of my own, but they did not inspire the conflict and radical damage her decisions did. In the end, that's usually the difference between people. Author Michelle Langley (Women's Infidelity) once wrote that she'd rather be married to someone who could admit they were capable of cheating (but chose not to) instead of someone who would 'never do such a thing'. To me, that's where trust and forgiveness come strongly into play.

 

How many of us truly love (or loved) our spouses, as opposed to loving who we hope they are?

 

Steadfast....just a bit of advice....I started down this journey when I told my ex that he needed to forgive himself...I have forgiven myself....yes, that sounds selfish...it is. But....it opens the path of resistance, of looking inward to your own actions instead of placing blame on the actions of others. Do I forgive him, does he forgive me....who knows...it's not important really...that type of forgiveness is selfish to the ego and not essential to the life lesson. More importantly, it's not a path I would choose to follow again, even with what we have both learned.

 

"Mind you I have issues of my own, but they did not inspire the conflict and radical damage her decisions did. In the end, that's usually the difference between people."

 

But are you saying that your issues did not cause her actions? There is still an element of blame there. See, I can admit that I did cause my husband's actions....my issues played a part and so did his as did he cause my actions.

 

"How many of us truly love (or loved) our spouses, as opposed to loving who we hope they are?"

 

As to your question, I can only answer to my marriage(s). I loved them both for who I hoped they were and they would become because I loved them. There were no expectations for them to go out and conquer the world, there were no expectations for them to make a six figure salary...the only expectation was for them to be there for me, love me...see ME...the real me and love that. They failed...miserably.

 

See...fantasy versus reality....in reality, no man will ever live up to my expectations nor will I live up to theirs. Why? Because they are who they are and I am who I am...no man has ever wanted to love me for me...if they had, they would have brought out the best in me as I would have brought out the best in them. It's an oxymoron and why I can say that living alone is living the best, peaceful and least complex life I have ever known. I've known what it's like to lose yourself, my first husband taught me what it was like to lose myself, it's a place that I don't think I could ever go again and come back sane.

Edited May 10, 2010 by trippi1432

[silverfish]

Steadfast....just a bit of advice....I started down this journey when I told my ex that he needed to forgive himself...I have forgiven myself....yes, that sounds selfish...it is. But....it opens the path of resistance, of looking inward to your own actions instead of placing blame on the actions of others. Do I forgive him, does he forgive me....who knows...it's not important really...that type of forgiveness is selfish to the ego and not essential to the life lesson. More importantly, it's not a path I would choose to follow again, even with what we have both learned.

 

"Mind you I have issues of my own, but they did not inspire the conflict and radical damage her decisions did. In the end, that's usually the difference between people."

 

But are you saying that your issues did not cause her actions? There is still an element of blame there. See, I can admit that I did cause my husband's actions....my issues played a part and so did his as did he cause my actions.

 

"How many of us truly love (or loved) our spouses, as opposed to loving who we hope they are?"

 

As to your question, I can only answer to my marriage(s). I loved them both for who I hoped they were and they would become because I loved them. There were no expectations for them to go out and conquer the world, there were no expectations for them to make a six figure salary...the only expectation was for them to be there for me, love me...see ME...the real me and love that. They failed...miserably.

 

See...fantasy versus reality....in reality, no man will ever live up to my expectations nor will I live up to theirs. Why? Because they are who they are and I am who I am...no man has ever wanted to love me for me...if they had, they would have brought out the best in me as I would have brought out the best in them. It's an oxymoron and why I can say that living alone is living the best, peaceful and least complex life I have ever known. I've known what it's like to lose yourself, my first husband taught me what it was like to lose myself, it's a place that I don't think I could ever go again and come back sane.

 

I can relate to the last part especially...actually the whole thread is probably one of the best I've seen on LS.

 

The bolded part -- I get what you mean, but I think for me, that there is a distortion there...if I had had a regular childhood (with unconditional love and all that) then I would never have had this oxymoron you describe - the fantasy v reality.

 

So, once you realise that there is a distortion, it sort of follows that at some point you realise that you are capable of having a 'real' relationship. For me, the sad part is I know I'm capable of it, but I'm not sure that I want it...still trying to figure out why that would be

[trippi1432]

[/b]

 

I can relate to the last part especially...actually the whole thread is probably one of the best I've seen on LS.

 

The bolded part -- I get what you mean, but I think for me, that there is a distortion there...if I had had a regular childhood (with unconditional love and all that) then I would never have had this oxymoron you describe - the fantasy v reality.

 

So, once you realise that there is a distortion, it sort of follows that at some point you realise that you are capable of having a 'real' relationship. For me, the sad part is I know I'm capable of it, but I'm not sure that I want it...still trying to figure out why that would be

 

No Silverfish...you are exactly right where I am...is the distortion worth the disappointment that you know will ultimately follow? I know they say you just set yourself up for failure...but when it's all you have known...it'll be many, many years before I would ever care that much for someone when it isn't returned.

[silverfish]

No Silverfish...you are exactly right where I am...is the distortion worth the disappointment that you know will ultimately follow? I know they say you just set yourself up for failure...but when it's all you have known...it'll be many, many years before I would ever care that much for someone when it isn't returned.

 

I think that the disappointment is normal and comes with most relationships...just that my 'disappointment' gene is very off...ie I can take a lot more disappointment and lack of care than most people might tolerate, but I can also act more uncaring and cold than most people can in reaction to that.

 

It's not who I am though, and it's a defence mechanism that for me has pretty much died away since I split with my ex H...although it still pops up every now and then (tired and stressed at work, haven't eaten / slept properly and so on).

 

As for the future...I don't know that I want to be alone for much longer. I was holding out for my exH to get to the point I'm at...not that it's a great place to be but I feel it's progress... but it's another fantasy - not going to happen on my watch anyway

[trippi1432]

I think that the disappointment is normal and comes with most relationships...just that my 'disappointment' gene is very off...ie I can take a lot more disappointment and lack of care than most people might tolerate, but I can also act more uncaring and cold than most people can in reaction to that.

 

It's not who I am though, and it's a defence mechanism that for me has pretty much died away since I split with my ex H...although it still pops up every now and then (tired and stressed at work, haven't eaten / slept properly and so on).

 

As for the future...I don't know that I want to be alone for much longer. I was holding out for my exH to get to the point I'm at...not that it's a great place to be but I feel it's progress... but it's another fantasy - not going to happen on my watch anyway

 

Ah...go back and read the trust/mistrust parts of my post...we all have defense mechanisms.....love, no love....on....off.....stand...run away.....marriage is hard...relationships are hard.....the one with ourselves is the hardest one of all.

[trippi1432]

I think that the disappointment is normal and comes with most relationships...just that my 'disappointment' gene is very off...ie I can take a lot more disappointment and lack of care than most people might tolerate, but I can also act more uncaring and cold than most people can in reaction to that.

 

It's not who I am though, and it's a defence mechanism that for me has pretty much died away since I split with my ex H...although it still pops up every now and then (tired and stressed at work, haven't eaten / slept properly and so on).

 

As for the future...I don't know that I want to be alone for much longer. I was holding out for my exH to get to the point I'm at...not that it's a great place to be but I feel it's progress... but it's another fantasy - not going to happen on my watch anyway

 

Silverfish - it also makes it a lot easier to move out of this and be alone when you know that your STBXH is engaged to marry the GF as soon as her divorce papers are done. Private he**s are everywhere, but they are not all the same. He's taking our son to meet his new Step Grand-father to be in June.

Edited May 11, 2010 by trippi1432

[trippi1432]

“We don’t always have to be strong to be strong. Sometimes, our strength is expressed in being vulnerable. Sometimes, we need to fall apart to regroup and stay on track.

 

We all have days when we cannot push any harder, cannot hold back self-doubt, cannot stop focusing on fear, cannot be strong.

 

There are days when we cannot focus on being responsible. Occasionally, we don’t want to get out of our pajamas. Sometimes, we cry in front of people. We expose our tiredness, irritability, or anger.

 

Those days are okay. They are just okay.

 

Part of taking care of ourselves means we give ourselves permission to “fall apart” when we need to. We do not have to be perpetual towers of strength. We are strong. We have proven that. Our strength will continue if we allow ourselves the courage to feel scared, weak, and vulnerable when we need to experience those feelings.” (Beattie, 1990)

 

Beattie, M. (1990). Strength. In M. Beattie, The Language of Letting Go, Daily Meditations on Codependency (pgs. 51-52). Center City: Hazelden.