trippi1432 Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 "Many of us have been trying to keep the whole world in orbit with sheer and forceful application of mental energy. What happens if we let go, if we stop trying to keep the world orbiting and just let it whirl? It'll keep right on track with no help from us. And we'll be free and relaxed enough to enjoy our place on it. Control is an illusion, especially the kind of control we've been trying to exert. In fact, controlling gives other people, events, and diseases, such as alcoholism, control over us. Whatever we try to control does have control over us and our life. (Author) have given this control to many things and people in my life. (Author) have never gotten the results (Author) wanted from controlling or trying to control people. What (Author) received for (the) efforts is an unmanageable life, whether that unmanageability was inside me or in external events. In recovery, we make a trade-off. We trade a life that we have tried to control, and we receive in return something better - a life that is manageable. Today, I will exchange a controlled life for one that is manageable." (Beattie, 1990) Beattie, M. (1990). Control. In M. Beattie, The Language of Letting Go, Daily Meditations on Codependency (p. 125). Center City: Hazelden Publishing.
Author trippi1432 Posted May 6, 2010 Author Posted May 6, 2010 This affirmation hit home with me today because for so long, I have been looking at the fact that I needed to be in control of my life. Again, from victim to survivor....I used control to never allow me to get to overcome. Since a very young age, I felt that I had to be in control....my parents were not there to protect me from tragic events that occurred at a very young age in my life. I now see that this way of thinking led me down the path that I had to rely on only me...be in total control. On the other side of this, men in my life have been affected by this way of thinking as it is not in a man's frame of mind to think of a woman needing to be in control of their own lives, decisions and opinions. In most occasions, men liken women who want have some control as being feminist b*****. Not all men are ingrained with compassion to understand that control can be 50/50. My ex never liked any decisions I made...they were not his decisions. From what to do to what's for dinner...in discussions here on LS, a lot has been discussed about my ex being a narcissist. In reality, everyone has some sort of personality disorder within them, my ex's most closely relative to the lack of empathy in the definition of a narcissist. I would place his disorder more in the paranoid personality disorder with OCD and alcoholism. I would place my disorders along the lines of borderline personality disorder to histrionic personality disorder. In either case, I went from a day job where I had to be in control due to the responsibilities and he went from a job where he had no control in his responsibilities. What do you think happened when we got home? Me, still in control mode dealing with a paranoid personality.....gave up....free for all....not making dinner you're on your own. Tired...tired of being in control and having to make the decisions. Now, what would a paranoid person do in this environment? They'd worry...flight or fight....and my ex loved the fight because he had no control all day. Now....what could have been different....I "think" I already know the answer...but I would like to hear from others how this relates or related to their experiences and what or how they changed it.
Author trippi1432 Posted May 6, 2010 Author Posted May 6, 2010 Really surprised that no one has stepped up to the plate on this one????? :eek:
just_some_guy Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 Control issue stem from two things in my observations, fear and a desire to keep the focus off of oneself. Fear leads to wanting to control others and the world around you so that you don't get hurt. Fear, along with the feelings of the loss of control lead to anger. It's a bad spiral. This is the nagging wife, the controlling husband to a tea. Control also comes into play when we don't want to deal with our own poo. It is sooooo much easier to take the spotlight off of our internal issues that need work and point it all at someone else. Dealing with our own crap is hard work. Dealing with someone else's problems is a lot easier and it leaves our own crap undisturbed, feeling all warm and gooey and soft, never mind the stink of it. This is the spouse of the alcoholic and addict. This is the al-anon. So what if he puts the spoons in the dishwasher bowls up or bowls down or some of both? So what if she manages her finances in an incomprehensible but otherwise paid on time and not debt growing manner? Sometimes the issues are more serious, like realizing you cannot control whether you are going to come home one day and find her dead with a needle sticking in her arm or he will turn up some day in jail after a DWI? You can only control your own actions. I'm not even entirely sure we can completely control our own feelings, but we can control how we act upon them. Letting go of control means relieving yourself of the responsibility of others. It is hard enough to take personal responsibility for ourselves. Taking personal responsibility for others will simply wear you out. It's like screaming at a mountain that it should move another foot to the right. It *might* happen, but the technique is ineffective and only serves to exhaust the screamer. The mountain will move when the mountain is ready to move. I know what it is like to be super-responsible, to take on too much. It makes you an awesome employee in some respects, but it drains you, it makes you susceptible to people who will use you and not respect your hard work, nor watch out for you. The workplace is a delicate balance and it is a two-way street. Work <--> reward. Deliver work, get rewarded.
Author trippi1432 Posted May 6, 2010 Author Posted May 6, 2010 Control issue stem from two things in my observations, fear and a desire to keep the focus off of oneself. Fear leads to wanting to control others and the world around you so that you don't get hurt. Fear, along with the feelings of the loss of control lead to anger. It's a bad spiral. This is the nagging wife, the controlling husband to a tea. Alright Some Guy...were you in my "group" class today???...lol. You hit the nail right on the head of our discussion today. What are the results of anger? Fear/ "control"FrustrationStress/overwhelmedPain/Hurt (masking depression) People don't make you angry, actions don't make you angry....YOU make YOURSELF angry because YOU allow it. Only YOU can control it. Internal anger rages when a person feels like they are not in control of their emotions, their life, their depression, their relationship. Control also comes into play when we don't want to deal with our own poo. It is sooooo much easier to take the spotlight off of our internal issues that need work and point it all at someone else. Dealing with our own crap is hard work. Dealing with someone else's problems is a lot easier and it leaves our own crap undisturbed, feeling all warm and gooey and soft, never mind the stink of it. This is the spouse of the alcoholic and addict. This is the al-anon. So what if he puts the spoons in the dishwasher bowls up or bowls down or some of both? So what if she manages her finances in an incomprehensible but otherwise paid on time and not debt growing manner? Sometimes the issues are more serious, like realizing you cannot control whether you are going to come home one day and find her dead with a needle sticking in her arm or he will turn up some day in jail after a DWI? You just modeled my last marriage there in those two paragraphs....wow! Every argument was about control in some way, shape or form. Every dead issue from the past melded into argument after argument so one or the other could "win" due to the fear of not being in control of the "fight". To each of us, neither of us could do anything right.....because neither wanted to give up control....we just continued being angry. You can only control your own actions. I'm not even entirely sure we can completely control our own feelings, but we can control how we act upon them. Yes, I agree on this, emotions are the hardest to control. Even now, I can look back on a simple sentence that I said months ago about jelly beans and see where my actions and behavior led me down a path of assumptions, fear and a different perspective than what was intended by the reaction I got for saying it. Perspectives were different on the intention of the meaning on both sides...but the actions (mine mostly) were out of control and permanently damaged a friendship. Letting go of control means relieving yourself of the responsibility of others. It is hard enough to take personal responsibility for ourselves. Taking personal responsibility for others will simply wear you out. It's like screaming at a mountain that it should move another foot to the right. It *might* happen, but the technique is ineffective and only serves to exhaust the screamer. The mountain will move when the mountain is ready to move. I know what it is like to be super-responsible, to take on too much. It makes you an awesome employee in some respects, but it drains you, it makes you susceptible to people who will use you and not respect your hard work, nor watch out for you. The workplace is a delicate balance and it is a two-way street. Work <--> reward. Deliver work, get rewarded. Great example!! And so true. Harriet Davis of the Johnson Institute designed a matrix for Letting Go, what it is and isn't, the feelings between the two and the behaviors. Probably not going to be easy to find on the "net". Not letting go: Having my self-worth wrapped up in what that person doesBeing deluded and out of touch with realityBelieving I am responsible for another person and that I can change themBeing addicted to another person's behavior (compulsive) The feelings associated with not letting go: Angry (You won't do what I want)Afraid (I won't be able to control)ResentfulBlamingTiredGuiltyHopelessHurtDisappointedInsecureDepressedResponsibleTrappedInadequate Behaviors from not letting go: RescueProtectGive AdviceTry and find solution (fix)Don't listenTry to controlManipulateCarry their feelingsBlame others and accept blameHold in my feelingsIgnore my needs Whew!! Long list....but that is where I have seen myself this whole time on so many occasions.....it's painful....it hurts....seeing those things in myself, but to say I have not behaved that way or felt that way, is only lying to myself. This is where I am heading...where I need to be for ME to finally get to where I can be strong... What do I need to let go? To understand enablingTo find ways of nurturing my own self worthTo be in touch with my feelings, to be congruentTo accept reality, myself and the other personLook at my own behaviorsTo be in touch with my spiritual power Feelings: ComfortableRelaxedFreeAwareHigh Self-worthFull of energyCaringAdequateResponsible for selfAcceptingLoving Behaviors: share my feelings (Level)Confront the other person's behaviorLet others be responsible for the consequences of their actionsShow empathyListenRespect the personTake care of myself Principles that can be used in work relationships/duties, personal relationships and marriage. Goals......
silverfish Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 I just read this...it's very interesting. I can see a lot of myself in your posts Trippi.... Can I ask you something though? How do you feel now having started learning all this about yourself....I mean, does it make you feel better? Just asking as anything I read along these lines seems to make me feel a lot worse.
Author trippi1432 Posted May 7, 2010 Author Posted May 7, 2010 I just read this...it's very interesting. I can see a lot of myself in your posts Trippi.... Can I ask you something though? How do you feel now having started learning all this about yourself....I mean, does it make you feel better? Just asking as anything I read along these lines seems to make me feel a lot worse. Actually...it makes me feel better in a way because it is learning to see the behaviors that I exhibit, but yes....it can make you feel worse when you face them and put them into perspective of where things happened. A lot of people "talk" about working on themselves...yet they do not dive deep and just fix the surface. I spent 20 years of my life thinking that I was fine, self-confident, working hard to achieve my goals, raising my kids, going to college...but had no idea how to relate to my STBXH and he had no idea how to relate to me. The thing is....working on yourself is not pointing fingers and saying well you did this and that made me do that. I can sit and justify all day long about what I hated about my STBXH...he could do the same, but sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie on the porch after they bite you and figure out what you could have done differently, or better, so they (or the next dog on the porch) doesn't bite you the next time. You can CHOOSE not to be the victim. It's not about making myself feel worse...although I do admit....I do not think that I will ever be the same person again after this journey down the rabbit hole. I'm sitting here with a plethora of books I bought at a book fair today...Melody Beattie, M. Scott Peck and (one of my favorite authors) Chopra.....all different subjects, all relational to what I am learning about myself. I have received acknowledgment from my parents of where my past has caught up to me now....some people may think it stupid....but my inner child needed that to be centered so I can open myself up. Funny, my STBXH told me a couple of weeks ago, he opened his mind and that is how he is learning....he is right....Insanity is to keep doing what you have always done expecting different results. Opening your mind to doing things differently and examining how you can alter your actions and behaviors to your trigger points, gives you better control over your actions and helps you to know yourself better. Knowing yourself eventually gets to loving yourself (not the ego, but who you are) and that makes it easier to either make the choice to be alone and be happy or be in a relationship and be happy.
Author trippi1432 Posted May 7, 2010 Author Posted May 7, 2010 I just read this...it's very interesting. I can see a lot of myself in your posts Trippi.... Can I ask you something though? How do you feel now having started learning all this about yourself....I mean, does it make you feel better? Just asking as anything I read along these lines seems to make me feel a lot worse. Just a thought, what parts of the posts make you feel worse?
silverfish Posted May 7, 2010 Posted May 7, 2010 Not your posts as such...just that I can see you're getting to the point of understanding your ExH and maybe to the point where if you could both do it over....who knows how things would be different. I think for me it's more that, I'm prepared to go through all this stuff, and I am in my own way, but the motivation isn't there as I always thought that it's something that you could work through with your partner. So, I suppose it's sad that it is too late. I guess that I feel it's great that you can get to the point where you are -- but for me it would make me on the one hand see completely where I went wrong, but on the other, be unable to do anything about it, or reap the benefits.
Author trippi1432 Posted May 7, 2010 Author Posted May 7, 2010 Not your posts as such...just that I can see you're getting to the point of understanding your ExH and maybe to the point where if you could both do it over....who knows how things would be different. I think for me it's more that, I'm prepared to go through all this stuff, and I am in my own way, but the motivation isn't there as I always thought that it's something that you could work through with your partner. So, I suppose it's sad that it is too late. I guess that I feel it's great that you can get to the point where you are -- but for me it would make me on the one hand see completely where I went wrong, but on the other, be unable to do anything about it, or reap the benefits. Well, not really working through anything with the ex, he has his life with his GF and I have mine (alone)...point of understanding is not for the ex...it's for me....being totally selfish with this journey. Does it help us do better at co-parenting...yes. That's important for our son. Is there any interest in getting him back....no. Even though he has changed for the better....I know that I will never love him like he should be loved. Right now, I'm probably incapable of loving anyone (including myself) which is why I am taking a more introspective look at me. Honestly, doing this for yourself and not for your partner is part of the learning. And the part where I am, complete nervous breakdown, diagnosed major depression, anxiety and suicidal tendencies. Leave of absence from work due to stress and in an out-patient day hospital under medical supervision for my meds. If I had done this learning over 20 years ago....I wouldn't be where I am now. Today marks the second day that I haven't cried....and those crying jags were not over the STBXH....they were over the stress. I'm not insane yet...lol!! At least I don't think so, but these posts are from what I am learning in these group sessions and applying them to what I need to fix. No, not easy....but well worth it for the hurting to stop.
Author trippi1432 Posted May 7, 2010 Author Posted May 7, 2010 I still say I'm not insane....yet. But to show you how powerful thinking is to the mind and why you have to be able to shut your brain off, it's 2:30 am and I just woke up out of the strangest dream. Dreams do not typically wake me up, especially since my sleep med should keep me knocked out, but this one unnerved me enough to do that. In my dream, my ex is back living with me, but so is another woman (in the dream, they are supposedly just friends and he is helping her out). It doesn't take long to become suspicious of that arrangement and he moves the woman out. In the meantime, his demeanor towards me changes to extremely violent and abusive. In the dream, there is this gray, shabby coat that represents warmth and safety. I make a run for the coat so I can get outside and leave but am headed off by the ex. He takes the coat and throws it in a pond full of poisonous snakes....in my dream, I black out. When I come to in my dream, things are not what they seem. Ex is there, parents are there, even my kids are there. We are sitting in the kitchen and I am being handed children's toys to play with. My ex chides me by opening the back door and commenting on how cold it is outside. I look beside me on the chair, there is the shabby gray coat....dry to the bone. I hear people talking but cannot speak up for myself, in the background I hear my ex talking about how hard things have been and my parents telling him how much they admire him for having to put with me. After the family leaves, and without any fight on my part, my ex puts the coat on me and tosses me into the pond of poisonous snakes....unable to move or do anything about the situation.....then I woke up thinking it was 6:30 in the morning when it was really 2:30. I'm sure this is one that I should send into a dream interpretation website as it would be interesting what their perspective is. I swear on my life, I have not had a drop to drink either....this was just a very vivid dream because I couldn't turn my mind off before I fell asleep. Going to try and go back to sleep now..hopefully writing about it will get it out of my mind for tonight.
Gunny376 Posted May 7, 2010 Posted May 7, 2010 My attitude and perspective in my own marriage? Was that when it came to control and management of the relationship/marriage? There were three different and distinct entities involved. Her, me and "us" and that it was "Us" that jointly made the decisions, and choices. Even though the XHEX was for the most part a SAHM, I would always include and consult her on things when it came to money, budgeting, child rearing and such. I'm not interested in being controlled by anyone, letting alone controlling someone else. When it came to household chores, helping the children with homework, cooking dinner, (Super as we say in the South) ~ it was who hit the backdoor first. Super had to be fixed and served, bathrooms needed to be cleaned, at least two loads of clothes had to be washed, dried and folded. One of my down failings as a man/husband was that women view the men in their lives as a extension of themselves and they're self identity as individuals and as women. And being judged as such by other women. That is to say, my husband, my house, my lawn/garden, my children.
Author trippi1432 Posted May 7, 2010 Author Posted May 7, 2010 My attitude and perspective in my own marriage? Was that when it came to control and management of the relationship/marriage? There were three different and distinct entities involved. Her, me and "us" and that it was "Us" that jointly made the decisions, and choices. Even though the XHEX was for the most part a SAHM, I would always include and consult her on things when it came to money, budgeting, child rearing and such. I'm not interested in being controlled by anyone, letting alone controlling someone else. When it came to household chores, helping the children with homework, cooking dinner, (Super as we say in the South) ~ it was who hit the backdoor first. Super had to be fixed and served, bathrooms needed to be cleaned, at least two loads of clothes had to be washed, dried and folded. One of my down failings as a man/husband was that women view the men in their lives as a extension of themselves and they're self identity as individuals and as women. And being judged as such by other women. That is to say, my husband, my house, my lawn/garden, my children. Of course, that's not ownership...in the South that's a compliment....without the "my's"....well a man is just another jackarse, expecting me to cook for his sorry arse when he hasn't even mowed the lawn yet and I'm busy running the kids cuz the jackarse is busy drinking with the buds. sorry, my vain attempt at some humor.
Gunny376 Posted May 7, 2010 Posted May 7, 2010 Of course, that's not ownership...in the South that's a compliment....without the "my's"....well a man is just another jackarse, expecting me to cook for his sorry arse when he hasn't even mowed the lawn yet and I'm busy running the kids cuz the jackarse is busy drinking with the buds. sorry, my vain attempt at some humor. Understood ! :lmao: There cetain things that unique about being a Southerner that other folks just don't understand!
Steadfast Posted May 7, 2010 Posted May 7, 2010 You are really impressing with your posts trippi. Very poignant. Bravo. No question that control is a romance killer. Now that I've stepped back and begun to observe (as opposed to actually living inside of it, which makes it harder to see) it seems having children with someone really brings control issues to the surface. When you're dating, each is so totally into the other; digging who they are and really trying to understand. Introduce kids to the equation and somewhere, somehow the mindset of "Now we have children! Someone needs to steer this ship!" creeps in. In time, one partner or the other begins to treat the spouse like one of the children, not a lover. This puts additional stress on the controller and robs the identity of the person being controlled. When the latter meets someone who just digs them for them (and not because they are the parent of a child) their weakness can allow an affair to follow. One way or another, we all seek balance. This, along with many, many other reasons is why a person should reach a certain level of maturity before marriage and children. When little ones are small, it's easy to forget that someday they'll grow and leave. What's left behind is what has been built through the years. Is it good or bad? That, of course, depends on how much work has been put into it. Mistakes -even ones made with the best of intentions- are still mistakes.
silverfish Posted May 7, 2010 Posted May 7, 2010 Well, not really working through anything with the ex, he has his life with his GF and I have mine (alone)...point of understanding is not for the ex...it's for me....being totally selfish with this journey. Does it help us do better at co-parenting...yes. That's important for our son. Is there any interest in getting him back....no. Even though he has changed for the better....I know that I will never love him like he should be loved. Right now, I'm probably incapable of loving anyone (including myself) which is why I am taking a more introspective look at me. Honestly, doing this for yourself and not for your partner is part of the learning. And the part where I am, complete nervous breakdown, diagnosed major depression, anxiety and suicidal tendencies. Leave of absence from work due to stress and in an out-patient day hospital under medical supervision for my meds. If I had done this learning over 20 years ago....I wouldn't be where I am now. Today marks the second day that I haven't cried....and those crying jags were not over the STBXH....they were over the stress. I'm not insane yet...lol!! At least I don't think so, but these posts are from what I am learning in these group sessions and applying them to what I need to fix. No, not easy....but well worth it for the hurting to stop. Thanks for that -- I really feel for you and everything you are going through right now. I've had moments myself lately... that dream you described isn't dissimilar to one I had a couple of weeks ago - I was trying to get away from my ex....another woman was blocking my exit, and some trees (?!) were growing branches around my neck....I woke up thinking that I was being strangled. Can I ask something else? Do you feel almost relieved that you are at this point now, having fought it for so long? I can imagine that it would be a huge weight off to let it all go and just concentrate on yourself.
tnttim Posted May 7, 2010 Posted May 7, 2010 Of course, that's not ownership...in the South that's a compliment....without the "my's"....well a man is just another jackarse, expecting me to cook for his sorry arse when he hasn't even mowed the lawn yet and I'm busy running the kids cuz the jackarse is busy drinking with the buds. sorry, my vain attempt at some humor. That is a form of control in itself...if he doesn't do A I'm not doing B. That's not living your life on your terms, that's living life on his. Control is very very tricky, and it is a akin to controlling, which are 2 completely different things. To me control means that you are in command of your life and your decisions, and you own up to the outcome regardless of whether it's good or bad. Controlling means that you try to command other people's lives and decisions, and never own up to the outcome, you just blame them. I'm the boss at my job, and I have found that skating that line can be very difficult at times. I have developed a habit now of asking myself "control or controlling?" I have made great strides in that area, and now I trust my employees way more because I have let go of some of my controlling ways. I used to think, if you want it done right, do it yourself. But then I would come home and want to kick the dog from all the bottled up stress. November 2nd 2009 was the day I told myself, "god, fate, karma, nature whatever controls this world, my life is in your hands now. I will no longer help turn the wheels of fate, that's your job. Whatever your plan is for me, I accept it." My life has improved dramatically since then.
phineas Posted May 7, 2010 Posted May 7, 2010 (edited) whoops meant to post a new thread Edited May 7, 2010 by phineas whoops
Author trippi1432 Posted May 7, 2010 Author Posted May 7, 2010 Thanks for that -- I really feel for you and everything you are going through right now. I've had moments myself lately... that dream you described isn't dissimilar to one I had a couple of weeks ago - I was trying to get away from my ex....another woman was blocking my exit, and some trees (?!) were growing branches around my neck....I woke up thinking that I was being strangled. Can I ask something else? Do you feel almost relieved that you are at this point now, having fought it for so long? I can imagine that it would be a huge weight off to let it all go and just concentrate on yourself. Thanks Silverfish....I am relieved in a way....today has been very hard....a lot of crying, not out of pity or blame or fault...just a general NEED to get out of this....get back to ME....the person I was....but be smarter about it. I want the HER back but not for living for revenge because someone hurt me as a child and hoped I would kill myself....I don't want to live for someone else either and have to be their "parent", I don't want to live for all the people at work who put their work off on me or for the miserable boss who just wants to "Git 'r Done"....I want to live to be happy. I wish I could do that trusting someone else in my life, but I know now why that may possibly never happen for me. In our group today, we talked about Trust versus Mistrust. Not sure if many people know about the sexuality studies of Sigmund Freud and that his study subject was actually sexually abused by Freud's own best friend. At any rate, a story about trust versus mistrust in the guise of a sexually abused woman (you can also liken this to physically abused and/or emotionally abused). A woman who has been through any of these stages will have a very hard time with trust. She will push, treat a person badly to prove that no one can be trusted....and, eventually, the man will prove to her that she is right....what man wants a broken woman, to be treated poorly.....he will either give up or, even worse, try to manipulate. The relationship can never get to autonomy (independence of free will and self-respect). Eventually, each move to withdrawal and misinterpretation of the facts and their feelings. This is the shame (self-rejection, feelings of incompetence and feelings of inadequacy) and doubt (paranoia). In the Shame mode, the person is living with: Past painful eventsPainful parental relationshipsBad habitsappearanceUnhealthy attachmentsBeing different - mental illness In a healthy mentality, a person would deal with this shame as something bad happened, I did something wrong...I made a mistake. In the unhealthy mentality, the person internalizes the shame as I am bad, I am wrong, I AM a mistake. This is the mind of a person who is dealing with the illness of depression...and depression IS an illness, not just something you get over because someone says to "cheer up". Here is where the individual has to find a way to cope....to let go....to find the stronger side of themselves so they are not reliant on someone else to give them the peace, comfort or emotional stability that they should be creating for themselves. There has to be a balance between giving help and taking care of yourself and sometimes the best way to deal with our own problems is to take on others instead.....we ignore our own. The danger is that you give yourself to others so much that you give away pieces of yourself because you are not fully healed (received with unconditional love for you in whatever spirituality you look to). Being agnostic myself....I refrain from inserting any references to God here, but to a higher power of a person's choice. A while back, when I first came to LS, there were some posts that contained advice or comfort in the fact that 2 souls are intertwined to one in a marriage; however, while integrated, they should always remain a sense of self in each soul. A marriage or relationship cannot be one-sided. One should not have to be the rule-maker, the planner, the parent and the only adult, and it's unfair to put that on one person to shirk the responsibility. So, for now...my brain has been emptied. I read the Melody Beattie devotional this morning out loud to the group and almost couldn't get through it without crying. "Letting Go of Fear Fear is at the core of codependency. It can motivate us to control situations or neglect ourselves. Many of us have been afraid for so long that we don't label our feeling fear We're used to feeling upset and anxious. It feels "normal". Peace and serenity may be uncomfortable. At one time, fear may have been appropriate and useful. We may have relied on fear to protect ourselves, much the way soldiers in a war rely on fear to help them survive. But now, in recovery, we're living life differently. It's time to thank our old fears for helping us survive, then wave good-bye to them. Welcome peace, trust, acceptance, and safety. We don't need that much fear anymore. We can listen to our healthy fears, and let go of the rest. We can create a feeling of safety for ourselves, now. We are safe, now. We've made a commitment to take care of ourselves. We can trust and love ourselves." (Beattie, 1990) Beattie, M. (1990). Letting Go of Fear. In M. Beattie, The Language of Letting Go, Daily Meditations on Codependency (p. 127). Center City: Hazelden Publishing.
44caliberloveletter Posted May 7, 2010 Posted May 7, 2010 "We can create a feeling of safety for ourselves, now. We are safe, now. We've made a commitment to take care of ourselves. We can trust and love ourselves." This.
You Go Girl Posted May 8, 2010 Posted May 8, 2010 Letting go of fear... there's another element of the nervous/anxious side to the co-dependent that is perhaps the hardest thing to face. While focusing on and criticizing the addict, one who has the mental illness, etc., the co-dependent can always blame the situation on that. Alone, we have no one to blame but ourselves. THAT can be very frightening indeed...it is part of what has kept me here! I survive being married 6 years (roommates only for a year) to an alcoholic, addict, person who believes at their core sadly, that they are a mistake. Now, when I leave, any and all problems, obstacles, failures, will be on my shoulders alone.
Author trippi1432 Posted May 8, 2010 Author Posted May 8, 2010 YGG - I will have to go back and look at your thread, I think our stories are a little similar and you are in the anger stage I was in 9 months ago. Something that has been nagging me since my previous post on the Trust versus Mistrust issue....my STBXH and I were together a total of 16 years (almost, 4 yr anniversary would have been last month). With everything, and I do mean every hurtful thing we put each other through...how does a relationship that is this dysfunctional go on for so long....at what point did my mental lack of understanding go totally out the window? I gave up in my marriage, because he was "broken" and I couldn't fix him....what I failed to realize was that I was broken too. Truth is, it wasn't my job to fix him, but it was my job to fix myself. Looking at where mistrust will get to...shame and doubt. Why we finally got married after being engaged for 12 years was because I felt that he had not given up on me. I did that to me, that was my thinking at the time. Honestly, looking back at that time, his reaction was little more than sure....guess we should. He was pretty much embarrassed of introducing me as his fiance' for all those years to his co-workers. Eventually he got pretty embarrassed of introducing his overweight wife to his co-workers as well.....so much for having wedding pics airbrushed over to make me look like a model. I will admit, I was an embarrassment to my STBXH and there were times when he was an embarrassment to me with his drinking behavior. YGG - Here is the side of the Shame thinking.....you "roommate" may be at shame for his actions, but he may actually be thinking along a healthy line of thinking...I got drunk and/or watched some porn, something bad happened, I did something wrong, I made a mistake. You may be on the other side of this thinking, the unhealthy side which equates he got drunk and looked at porn again, I am bad, I am wrong, I am a mistake (he wants those other girls instead of me). Thinking along those lines and looking back at your post yesterday.....how does that fit or does it?
Author trippi1432 Posted May 8, 2010 Author Posted May 8, 2010 You are really impressing with your posts trippi. Very poignant. Bravo. Thanks...working on it.....long ways to go yet. No question that control is a romance killer. Now that I've stepped back and begun to observe (as opposed to actually living inside of it, which makes it harder to see) it seems having children with someone really brings control issues to the surface. When you're dating, each is so totally into the other; digging who they are and really trying to understand. Introduce kids to the equation and somewhere, somehow the mindset of "Now we have children! Someone needs to steer this ship!" creeps in. In time, one partner or the other begins to treat the spouse like one of the children, not a lover. Or, in my case, one spouse gives up control and wants to be treated like a child. Rebels like any child would. Believe me LONG discussions on this one. This puts additional stress on the controller and robs the identity of the person being controlled. When the latter meets someone who just digs them for them (and not because they are the parent of a child) their weakness can allow an affair to follow. One way or another, we all seek balance. This, along with many, many other reasons is why a person should reach a certain level of maturity before marriage and children. When little ones are small, it's easy to forget that someday they'll grow and leave. What's left behind is what has been built through the years. Is it good or bad? That, of course, depends on how much work has been put into it. Mistakes -even ones made with the best of intentions- are still mistakes. Well, children do play a big part of the marital dynamics, whether they are your children or her/his children. If they are all children from the current marriage, steering the ship should be 50/50. Being a single mom previously, blended families are a tough one to crack. A man must be able to allow a woman to raise her own children according to her values and beliefs (with or without the ex in the picture) if the man does not intend to marry her. You don't just get a woman there, you get an instant family and it doesn't make you "daddy" overnight. If the man is strong enough and loves the woman enough to know that she is the one, he will know exactly how and when to exert a fatherly presence over children that are not his biologically. My step-father is awesome at this. As to mistakes, every successful person in the world will tell you that there are no such thing as mistakes....there are powerful learning experiences....but certainly not mistakes.
Gunny376 Posted May 8, 2010 Posted May 8, 2010 (edited) Granted! I'm carrer military, and a retired United States Marine Gunnery Sergeant. I'm all the more faltered by being a man. I completely understand and comprehend that men and women not only think differently but their minds are literally "hard-wired" differently. But..............................." All of you are worrying way too much about things that you can't do about, have no control over, cannot do anything about! And I understand the pressure that women go through and to be all to any and all! Mom, nurse, housekeeeper, maid, cook, PTA member, soceer mom, doing the laundry, washing and drying the clothes. being the boss at work, earning a degree a bachelors, a Masters in education, business, MBA. And after all that the DH wakes you up off the couch to go to bed and wants to have sex? WTF? Just this plain and just this simple! Forget the big house over on the rich side of town, forget the 4000 sq ft house over on the Country Club. Forget the Benze, and the Lexus. Work to live and not live to work! No one gives a damn about where you live nor how big a house you live in. They don't give a damn about what kind of car you drive. What matters is the love that you have with your husband, the love and respect, and admiration of your children. John Wayne said it best! "I don't give a damn what others think nor say! I care only about the love and admiration of my friends, children and family! The rest can go to Hell!" And that my friends is all that matters! Edited May 8, 2010 by Gunny376
Author trippi1432 Posted May 8, 2010 Author Posted May 8, 2010 Granted! I'm carrer military, and a retired United States Marine Gunnery Sergeant. I'm all the more faltered by being a man. I completely understand and comprehend that men and women not only think differently but their minds are literally "hard-wired" differently. But..............................." All of you are worrying way too much about things that you can't do about, have no control over, cannot do anything about! And I understand the pressure that women go through and to be all to any and all! Mom, nurse, housekeeeper, maid, cook, PTA member, soceer mom, doing the laundry, washing and drying the clothes. being the boss at work, earning a degree a bachelors, a Masters in education, business, MBA. And after all that the DH wakes you up off the couch to go to bed and wants to have sex? WTF? Just this plain and just this simple! Forget the big house over on the rich side of town, forget the 4000 sq ft house over on the Country Club. Forget the Benze, and the Lexus. Work to live and not live to work! No one gives a damn about where you live nor how big a house you live in. They don't give a damn about what kind of car you drive. What matters is the love that you have with your husband, the love and respect, and admiration of your children. John Wayne said it best! "I don't give a damn what others think nor say! I care only about the love and admiration of my friends, children and family! The rest can go to Hell!" And that my friends is all that matters! I appreciate what you are pointing out here Gunny, and yes...people get caught up in materialism, work, school...etc. Sometimes they are a victim of it (such as every performance review I was told that if I didn't go for the higher degrees, I was going to have to be demoted as I no longer qualified for my job)...oh, and for tuition reimbursement, I have to agree to work for the company 2 years for every 1 year of reimbursement. Luckily it's retroactive, so I am counting down so I have less than 2 years to go. If I leave before that, I have to pay them back.....go figure...sheesh!!! But the discussion here is not on control of materialistic purchases, keeping up with the neighbors, acquiring wealth or having the higher degree. This discussion is about looking introspectively about how you can do better to control your actions and behaviors in relation to past traumas in your life and learn from the issues, whether cognitive or communicative (Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus) stuff. It's about understanding where the anger triggers the fear, frustration, stress, pain and hurt. People don't make you angry, even their actions don't make you angry....you make yourself angry. A person cuts you off on the highway....it might seem like it was their intention to find you...just you to single out to piss off that day. But did they really? Did they wake up and say I think I am going to find that complete stranger Gunny that I don't even know and cut him off on the highway to start his day off bad...that's my goal for the day. No! But it affects you, makes you angry because you allow it to. If you drive further up the road, you may find it is a couple pulling up at the emergency entrance to the hospital with a husband in panic because his wife is in labor. Changes the whole scenario a little bit. Yes, a woman's mind is hard-wired differently, we want security (a home), we want to know that the car we are driving the children back and forth to the daycare isn't going to break down, we want to ensure that there is food on the table to feed the children (and if there is some money left over, you can have your Smithwick's....inside joke ). Personally, I live way below the standard of people at work who make less money than I do, because I want to enjoy my paycheck instead of giving it to the creditors every month. But it doesn't end the long hours....that's management driven because they can push salaried workers on the longer hours and not pay the overtime. Oh, and BTW - It was typically me waking the DH up off the couch to go to bed...sex only became a problem when he started wondering if the grass was greener. ;) I do appreciate you standing up for the women folk though...as a Southern gent, I would not expect you to be the type of man to slam the door in the face of woman carrying your kid in a baby carrier while trying to manage a diaper bag. My baggage is that I should have red flagged that disrespect a long time ago.
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