What do WW's do that gives them away?

[sruben]

Yep. I did that. Couldn't not cover my mouth when lying. I was in the thick of it with exMM and at the time lied to him. We went for sexual counseling which I truly did want for our marriage to repair but I think it threw him off the trail?

 

Wow. Yeah, just before she answered me covering her mouth, we had been discussing affairs in general. She made some kind of statement starting with, "The thing about adultery is..." and I really don't remember the rest of the comment because I was WATCHING her as she spoke. We were sitting on the bed talking, and she was deliberately looking away from me..so much so that as she spoke, I leaned forward to try to look her in the eye and couldn't. She was looking off to the left and couldn't say what she was saying while looking me in the eye! Around that time, I used to say ILY, when she'd say it back her eyes would dart away...couldn't look me in the eye with that, either. She can now, but I definitely remember (and journalled notes on this back then).

 

No I don't think he is/had an affair.

 

I did the no-hair thing way before the A but during the A I started getting Brazillian waxes which I hadn't had before. That's a lot of pain for hair removal and my H questioned it.

 

My wife is too conventional for that, and I don't prefer it anyway. If she did something like that, I'd be REALLY suspicious! It would pretty much give it away I think.

 

Do you have kids? I may have missed that somewhere in your post.

 

Yes. She had two from her first marriage (I'm her third husband) and we have one 6 yr old together.

[sruben]

When my SO confronted me about the affair, I confessed. I had already stopped seeing the OM, but I did confess to my SO, and promised to never cheat again. since then I had a close encounter with the OM, but I didn't fail. I kept my promise, and haven't cheated again. Now, instead of looking outside of my relationship when things get boring.. I look for ways to spice up my relationship, and always communicate with my SO.

 

To the OP: Just talk to your wife.. try to reconnect with her. Let her know that you deserve to know the truth.

 

I did talk to her, all I got was denials. However, I will be talking to her more about our budget, her wanting separate finances (and her unilateral decision to go that way, without any discussion with me) and her other independent behavior and I do plan to ask her if she still wants to be married. Often, she acts like she doesn't! I think now that I should make that initial consultation with the lawyer I got the referral for last year.

 

I'm concerned about her spending. Last year I had to refi the house (glad to get the lower rate, but...also folded in $24K in CC debt) and a home equity loan (for $20K to pay off more CC debt). Her spending slowed when she was out of work (quit her "toxic environment" job last October -- the one where I think she might have had an EA, possibly went physical at least once, with an out of town vendor that she spent a lot of time with Feb-Mar last year, then again in June), but she got a new (much lower paying) job about a month ago. I just got one of her CC bills, she spent $1100 last month on it!

 

She always told me that in her first two marriages, she had to be the responsible one because the first guy liked to buy toys (sports) and the second was a drug addict (I'm glad she had no kids with him!).

[Just a stone's throw]

Were there infidelity issues with the previous two marriage?

[sruben]

_________________________________________________________________________

I am sad to say that everything SS said was what my wife did/showed. Add to the list:

• Sudden change in intimate grooming.

She withdrew from sex, but would give in eventually to try & throw me off track I guess & all of the sudden...no more hair. WTF???

I had been trying to get her to do it for years & nope, but suddenly she did it on her own? Or worse; he did it. I wanted to puke, as I knew it wasn't for me.

As for how I found out:

• Hired a PI

• Started looking myself...always had trusted her B4, so never looked @ or for any proof

• Found a IT wiz that has loose morals. In this day & age, any digital info sent or received has a trail. Easy enough to find for a wiz.

Then I innitiated my D-day...most painful day of my life. That was the day I lost faith in all women.

I will never be the same...ever. Let me caution you though, as if you dig hard enough you may learn things you can NEVER un-know. I am tormented by the explicit details that I know.

To the extent that I have nightmares where I see things as if I were watching! If ur that sure she's cheating, just ask for a D. No muss, no fuss, no haunting images.

I hope that U escape with ur soul intact my friend. As my signature implies, I was not so lucky. Good luck.

 

Thanks for sharing your story. Yes, I do want to know the whole truth, without it I can't trust. And I understand the torment. I went through enough of that just with what I was assuming (when I had less circumstantial evidence and before I'd had time to analyze what I did have).

 

But right this second, I want to say enough about me. I still don't know for certain that my wife had an affair. Yours did, and I'm so sorry to hear it.

 

But I want to encourage you with these two things I've learned in all my research the last year: 1) It was not your fault she had an affair, she owns that all on her own. If you weren't meeting her needs, it was on her to communicate that to you and try to work it out. She chose not to and to get her needs met somewhere else. It is not in any way a reflection on your worth, so please try not to torment yourself any further. 2) Not all women will cheat on you. Don't lose faith in people, there are some good ones out there! If you've already lost that faith, you need to meet some and find some that are good. You don't need to date or get to know them all well, but you need to find some just to remember that they are there. One of them might be for you and might treat you with the dignity and faithfulness you deserve. I know it hurts, what happened, but don't let it destroy you or ruin the rest of your life. It can be better. You deserve to find that. So don't quit looking, if that's deep-down what you want, and I think it is or you wouldn't have had that relationship in the first place.

[sruben]

Were there infidelity issues with the previous two marriage?

 

Yes, she told me that both previous husbands committed adultery, but in all our talks on the issue, I learned that the adultery was not the cause of the divorce. The first divorce was filed before the adultery came to light. The second was a VV with an addiction to alcohol and drugs. Every month he'd disappear for days or weeks without a word, on a binge. She filed for divorce due to abandonment, but once found a thong panty in his suitcase belonging to a prostitute he'd been with while he was gone.

 

She's often said to me in arguments that "All I know is that eventually the man cheats, and then it's over!" Last summer she also said things like "I don't know what I want", "It's not you, it's me" and "I wish I could just die!", said she was having a midlife crisis, and all this was after that day of mourning.

 

As far as she has told me, she'd never cheated on them (but then, you wouldn't expect her to say any differently, else why would I have married her?) I'm tempted to have a talk with H#1, but oldest daughter says he probably wouldn't talk with me about it (I was careful with what I told her, just things she already knew wife and I had been fighting about).

 

Why? What's your take on that?

[sruben]

Oh yeah, the mourning part... that's the hardest to hide! The last time I came back from seeing the OM I couldn't help but cry, and mourn because it was over. That's so hard to hide, and keep inside.. those feelings of sadness..

 

Southern, I'd like to ask you another question about mourning -- would it be as deep for an EA as it would one that went physical?

 

I'll tell you, between taking off her ring at home (and telling me she "might not be wearing it") and this deep mourning she had right after that guy was gone, even without all the other weird stuff that was happening, seems like this is enough for when I confront her again (probably with a marriage counselor present? What do you think?).

[Just a stone's throw]

Yes, she told me that both previous husbands committed adultery, but in all our talks on the issue, I learned that the adultery was not the cause of the divorce. The first divorce was filed before the adultery came to light. The second was a VV with an addiction to alcohol and drugs. Every month he'd disappear for days or weeks without a word, on a binge. She filed for divorce due to abandonment, but once found a thong panty in his suitcase belonging to a prostitute he'd been with while he was gone.

 

She's often said to me in arguments that "All I know is that eventually the man cheats, and then it's over!" Last summer she also said things like "I don't know what I want", "It's not you, it's me" and "I wish I could just die!", said she was having a midlife crisis, and all this was after that day of mourning.

 

As far as she has told me, she'd never cheated on them (but then, you wouldn't expect her to say any differently, else why would I have married her?) I'm tempted to have a talk with H#1, but oldest daughter says he probably wouldn't talk with me about it (I was careful with what I told her, just things she already knew wife and I had been fighting about).

 

Why? What's your take on that?

 

Just wondering if there was a pattern developing here. I think if you're able to talk to the H1 that would be helpful. I agree not to get the daughter involved as I was in that position and it caused me a huge amount of stress at 15 and 16 years of age.

 

But if she was a BS from other marriages, she knows some of the ins and outs of it from the other side. She may think she's slyer than she is.

[sruben]

Okay, 558 views on this topic, but only 30 responses? Yes, I know what I need to do, but I really want more information on things WW's typically do when they're cheating. The observation about uncontrollable mourning was VERY helpful, and I'd like to read some more helpful suggestions. I'm especially interested in WW/fWW point of view.

 

I'm hurting here, please help me out! Thanks.

[sruben]

Just wondering if there was a pattern developing here. I think if you're able to talk to the H1 that would be helpful. I agree not to get the daughter involved as I was in that position and it caused me a huge amount of stress at 15 and 16 years of age.

 

But if she was a BS from other marriages, she knows some of the ins and outs of it from the other side. She may think she's slyer than she is.

 

Here's my suspicion -- that she communicated with OM via her work computer in her office, her work laptop or her work blackberry (and never on her home computer, laptop or cell phone). She used to stay 15-60 minutes late at a job she said she hated almost every day even after I became suspicious and even after I asked her if she'd cheated.

 

My other guess is that, if the affair stayed EA, she may not consider herself to have cheated and therefore feel no need to confess or deal with it any longer since it's over (she quit that job late last year, I doubt OM would risk contacting her on her personal computers or phone where I might see it. Yes, I've looked, not found any evidence...unless she has a secret other cell phone, which some WW's use, so I'm told).

[stillafool]

I'm concerned about her spending. Last year I had to refi the house (glad to get the lower rate, but...also folded in $24K in CC debt) and a home equity loan (for $20K to pay off more CC debt).I just got one of her CC bills, she spent $1100 last month on it!

 

 

 

What on earth does she spend so much money on? The kids?

[sruben]

What on earth does she spend so much money on? The kids?

 

Hmmm, let's see. Target (clothes for herself, kids, makeup, miscellaneous), eating out, QVC, eating out, her hobby (craft), Victoria's Secret, eating out (she hates to cook), cash withdrawals, usually $40 at a time once of twice a week, dog stuff, more eating out... not much for the kids except the eating out part. We spent $18K on groceries, fast food and restaurants from 01/09 to 10/09 (before she quit her job). Is that exhorbitant? I don't know, some friends told me they spent about $15K per year on all that...

 

Last June she spent all sorts of money on new clothes, makeup, hair & nails.

 

Wish I could something telltale like "hotel, lingerie, membership in so-and-so, bar, etc", but I guess the guy usually pays for all that, doesn't he?

[SouthernSunshine]

Hmmm, let's see. Target (clothes for herself, kids, makeup, miscellaneous), eating out, QVC, eating out, her hobby (craft), Victoria's Secret, eating out (she hates to cook), cash withdrawals, usually $40 at a time once of twice a week, dog stuff, more eating out... not much for the kids except the eating out part. We spent $18K on groceries, fast food and restaurants from 01/09 to 10/09 (before she quit her job). Is that exhorbitant? I don't know, some friends told me they spent about $15K per year on all that...

 

Last June she spent all sorts of money on new clothes, makeup, hair & nails.

 

Wish I could something telltale like "hotel, lingerie, membership in so-and-so, bar, etc", but I guess the guy usually pays for all that, doesn't he?

 

Yes, or she withdraws the money. I withdrew money when I didn't want a "paper trail". She's being irresponsible. All the signs are there..

 

Southern, I'd like to ask you another question about mourning -- would it be as deep for an EA as it would one that went physical?

 

I'm sure it would, but when an EA turns physical it runs even deeper.

 

I'll tell you, between taking off her ring at home (and telling me she "might not be wearing it") and this deep mourning she had right after that guy was gone, even without all the other weird stuff that was happening, seems like this is enough for when I confront her again (probably with a marriage counselor present? What do you think?).

Having a marriage counselor present is a good idea! Confrontation can get very heated, and escalate.

[sruben]

Hey, folks,

 

New development. This might be totally innocent, but I was checking the cell phone bill. Last Thur through this Mon she had a new Droid phone, but didn't like it, but I noticed that on Friday morning, a couple of TXT messages were exchanged between her and a number I don't recognize. Several more occurred right around lunchtime.

 

I called the number and a man whose voice I do not recognize answered (I didn't call from my own phone, but from a hallway phone). I hung up. He called back a few minutes later, I did not answer (and my officemates are away).

 

Now, this is the weird part -- I'd sent my wife a couple TXTs earlier in the day, one after she should have been off work, and she never responded. However, RIGHT after the guy called the hall phone back, while I was documenting that fact, my wife called me at the office, wanted to know if everything was all right.

 

PROBABLY synchronicity as she had the girls with her at the time, but it sure gave me the willies! Most people if they get a call and the caller hangs up, just let it be (I do -- if it's on my cell, it's obviously a wrong number and nothing to do with my wife, who has her own). But this guy called back! Maybe nothing, but still.

 

I am going to check her new cell phone to see if that number is in there.

 

Comments?

[stillafool]

I'm sorry sruben but all the signs are pointing to an affair. I'm sorry for you as you sound like a great guy.

[Just a stone's throw]

Have to agree that us WW can't tell you much more than we have. Your next question or post should be "How do I use the info I have to get my wife to own up to her A"? What did other BH do to get their WW to own up to it?

 

Otherwise you're just getting more circumstantial evidence which doesn't help you. You need to make a move if you want this to end.

 

Good luck!

 

JAST

[imagine]

Hi Sruben,

 

If I may pass on tips that were forwarded to me: Ask her if she loves you. Ask her why she loves you. Pause. Ask her if there is anything she would like to tell you. Do not answer her when she asks "Why do you want to know?"

 

All marriages should be honest. Before marriage, during the marriage. Both should warn the other of anything threatening the marriage. Emotions should be honest.

 

Neither partner should ever fully trust the other. If you value your marriage, always do occasional checks. Find out who owns the mystery number. I believe there are checks that will cost you about 50 bucks to source the owner. I cannot recall the places that do that. I'm on the other side of the world.

[sruben]

Have to agree that us WW can't tell you much more than we have. Your next question or post should be "How do I use the info I have to get my wife to own up to her A"? What did other BH do to get their WW to own up to it?

 

Otherwise you're just getting more circumstantial evidence which doesn't help you. You need to make a move if you want this to end.

 

Good luck!

 

JAST

 

You're absolutely right, that is the next question I need to ask. In fact, I couldn't have worded it more simply or better. Thank you!

[sruben]

Hi Sruben,

 

If I may pass on tips that were forwarded to me: Ask her if she loves you. Ask her why she loves you. Pause. Ask her if there is anything she would like to tell you. Do not answer her when she asks "Why do you want to know?"

 

All marriages should be honest. Before marriage, during the marriage. Both should warn the other of anything threatening the marriage. Emotions should be honest.

 

Neither partner should ever fully trust the other. If you value your marriage, always do occasional checks. Find out who owns the mystery number. I believe there are checks that will cost you about 50 bucks to source the owner. I cannot recall the places that do that. I'm on the other side of the world.

 

I have heard that spokeo.com can help in that area. I plan to pay for a 1-yr membership today.

 

Hey, besides that strange number she was TXTing week before last, since she's been moving phones we had to do that backup assistant thing. As such, I got to see all of her contacts without having to touch her phone. I saw two number on there with names that were abbreviated or perhaps encoded -- which is why I want to spokeo them:

 

Njna

V Li Dyvr

 

Can anybody take a stab at what those could stand for? The number are cell numbers, definitely not business numbers.

 

Am I reaching here, or does this look like a conscious effort to prevent me from knowing who those number belong to?

[Just a stone's throw]

I have heard that spokeo.com can help in that area. I plan to pay for a 1-yr membership today.

 

Hey, besides that strange number she was TXTing week before last, since she's been moving phones we had to do that backup assistant thing. As such, I got to see all of her contacts without having to touch her phone. I saw two number on there with names that were abbreviated or perhaps encoded -- which is why I want to spokeo them:

 

Njna

V Li Dyvr

 

Can anybody take a stab at what those could stand for? The number are cell numbers, definitely not business numbers.

 

Am I reaching here, or does this look like a conscious effort to prevent me from knowing who those number belong to?

 

Hmmmm.... I like puzzles and anagrams but unless she has a Ninja stashed somewhere of McGuyver I'm afraid I'm going to have to give this one some more thought. Sorry, not meaning to make light of this but it made me chuckle as I was trying to decipher!!