Doing the right thing, but I feel as though my heart has been ripped out

[awakenedatlast]

Hi,

 

First post after months of lurking.

 

So, basically I have been married nine years,with my husband for 13, we have two kids of six and four. I am no logner in love with him, and am no longer sure I actually love him, whereby I mean I don't think I want to spend the rest of my life with him.

Our sex life is practically non-existent, mainly due to his ED which he suffered from even before I met him. I have never found sex with him fulfilling, despite trying to improve thigs every way I know. He has hang-ups, won't explore, and I just sort of gave up trying. We went nearly two years with no action while resentment (on my part) just built up and up and up...

This is something that has been niggling for years, and has increased in intensity over the past year. I sort of accepted that my sex life was over, that I had just better get used to it and tried the best to ignore that part of me, however crazy that sounds (I'm 36, by the way, he's 45). UNTIL....

Yeah, the 'other man'. I have fallen hard for someone who is the total opposite of my husband, practically as soon as I met him, although I know this is basically a strong physical atraction/infatuation, as I don't really know him that well (we share a sports interest and see each other one hour a week.) He has done nothing to encourage me bar a little flirting, and nothing has happened although I dream about him all the time, 'what if...' and all that. I can honestly say I have never, ever felt this physically attracted to anyone before, it's electric and while I am under no illusions about the way he feels about me, sense that there is attraction on his side too. I should add that he's 5 years younger than me and single. I suppose if I were a bit younger, not married and had no kids he would ask me out for a drink, but I doubt very strongly he sees me as a potential life partner To be honest, on paper, my husband is the ideal man (apart from ED and lousy in bed) whereas this other guy really isn't 'the ideal man'; but my goodness he just gets every atom of my being buzzing when I'm with him.

 

I have told my husband that I am having serious doubts about our future and my feelings for him, we've talked about some of the issues (but not the other man) and have agreed that IF we want to save our marriage MC is the way to go. Before I can do that, though, I need to really know what I feel and want so have been going to IC for the last month. It IS helping me recognise that what I feel is valid and not 'wrong'. One thing I find strange though, is that my therpaist is more or less encouraging me to have an affair, or at least have sex with this other guy at least once, I suppose to 'get him out of my system'. I was a bit surprised, but as I live in continental Europe I suppose it's maybe more tolerated here, seen as 'just sex'??? The thing is, to me it wouldn't be just sex as I already feel too much for this guy, hesitate to say I'm in love but it's close to being that. And so I know that it would just complicate matters more....

 

Soooo, I have decided that I need to cut all contact with him to be able to get him out of the equation. I need to know if, once he's no longer on the scene, I feel differently about MC with my husband. I'm hoping here that 'out of sight, out of mind' while work its magic. I told him last night that I wouldn't be re-enroilling in September for the sport lesson and he looked as though he had been slapped in the face and I was almost in tears. (He doesn't know how I feel, but I suppose he may suspect something by the way he looks at me sometimes.) I have felt sick since, feel as though my heart and guts have been ripped from me and can't stop crying. I KNOW this is the right thing to do, so why, why, why does it hurt so much?

 

Not sure what I'm looking for here. But it feels a bit better to get ot off my chest.

 

Thanks for reading.

[SoConfusledandHurt]

On one hand I think its noble what youve done by deciding to cut this other guy out of the equation...BUT...

 

Is sex a deal breaker for you? Do you long to feel desired? I think that is very important for a woman to feel that way by her life partner! I suppose you should give MC a try...try to work past the resentments (and if you totally figure that out, PLEASE let me know...haha!) and fall back in love with your husband, and he needs to go get some freaking viagra...or atleast talk to the dr. about his ed, if he hasnt already...

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, I know its a super tough decision and I wish you the best.

[WalkInThePark]

I think MC won't do anything for you if your H does not solve his sexual issues. Is he overweight? I think a guy of 45 with a healthy lifestyle would normally be able to get it up...

[quankanne]

trust me on this, guys: ED is not the biggest part of the problem; his sexual self-identity is.

 

because he probably feels like he's a failure of a man for not being able to have sex or even gets hard-ons, he's going to push away kind of contact that could even remotely lead to sex. While it's understandable, it's also not a smart move, because inevitably, there's one partner who craves the touch of his/her loved one, and ultimately, it kills whatever "love" there is when the other person fails to recognize that.

 

AAL, I'm guessing your therapist suggest you go and get this guy out of your system because he suspects that it's a feeling based largely on physical response to someone who happens to be in the right place at the right time and reawakening those feelings in you. To a degree, I can see where he's got a point, but realistically speaking, if you still love your husband *as* a husband, you don't need to indulge in an affair. Get into sexual and marital counseling so you can figure out ways to communicate your love in a physical way that's pleasing to both of you. Once he gets past that mental block of "I've got to insert my Tab A into her Slot B to make it 'count,'" he just might loosen up and become more affectionate and loving ...

 

also, learn to identify those times when he's more open to being that way with you. I also have an older husband with health issues, and learned that we can have some entirely pleasurable moments for both of us that are full of intimacy even if we don't have sex. And I'm guessing that this kind of thing will make a huge difference in your marriage if it's something you both work toward.

 

hugs,

q

[You Go Girl]

First, fire the therapist. Geesh--gotta love these therapists that want to keep being paid so badly that they encourage infidelity and never criticize their patients.

 

Find a MC, preferably a man, for his sake.

[awakenedatlast]

Thanks for your replies.

 

Viagra. I gave my husband a sort of ultimatum about a year ago, soon after meeting this other guy and realising that I WAS still a sexual being and that nearly two years without sex was NOT OK. So, he went to see the doctor, told him he had trouble getting and maintaining an erection, the doc sent him for blood tests (which revealed nothing) and gave him one little blue pill to try to see if it worked. We've had sex a handful of times since then (I am the one who initiates 9 times out of ten, although we haven't had sex ten times since then...) and he STILL hasn't taken the initiative of taking the damn pill!!! I am so, so mad with him, and told him so just this last weekend. He always uses the excuse that we never have time, the kids, blah, blah blah, and yes, OK, while it's true that he does get home tired and there have been periods in the past when one or other of the kids has gone through a phase of coming uninvited to our bed in the night, this hasn't happened for AGES! So, this weekend I got mad, and said how can he say that there hasn't been ONE day in the last 365 where he could have had the foresight to PLAN a romantic evening? I told him that I have come to the conclusion that he just doesn't love me in a sexual way anymore, just sees me as the mother of his kids (I know this can happen). Honestly though, I have never looked or felt better since we've known each other, no excuses there. He says no, and that I'm the love of his life. Well, it sure doesn't feel that way! It is so true that the constant rejection ends up killing the love. It's got to the point where I don't even want him anymore, but am wondering whether this is more because of the other guy or more because of resentment. I know I should be trying harder but I am sick and tired of it always being me who does the work, the one who brings up the fact that we haven't had sex for X number of weeks. There's just no spontaneity, no fun in it. For years it really was the tab A into slot B scenario with the same old position which did nothing for me and made me feel like some sort of blow up doll he was using to masturbate with. I put an end to that and things are a bit better since but even so we've got another little scenario which still mostly involves making sure tab A gets and stays hard enough to fit into slot B and I can't stand it any more!

I do think he feels a little threatened by the 'new me' to some extent. And I also believe, as one of you said, that the ED is linked to his sexual identity. It drives me NUTS when someone as intelligent and resourceful as him (in a professional context) can be so stubborn and blinkered when it comes to sex. Basically, if he doesn't know how to do something, he won't do it. This is not only true of sex, by the way. I think it's a control thing??? Doesn't want to admit he doesn't understand/know something because admitting this would be a sign of weakness kind of thing, like men who don't like to ask people in the street for directions?! I joke not!

 

As for sex being a deal breaker. I would have said no several years ago. The proof being I stayed with him for a ton of other reasons and even married him and had two children with him. But I have changed, my needs have too. This is what makes it so tough for me in a way. I feel unfair asking for something now that I didn't make too much of a fuss about before (lack of confidence, different needs...).

 

sigh

 

Intimacy IS a problem. I feel as though I don't really know the man I married, like he lives inside a shell,won't let me close. I do wonder whether he is actually aware of his own feelings/emotions. He just looked at me blankly when I said I needed to feel an emotional connection with him this last weekend. He's said he's happy to come to MC with me, but I honestly don't know how he'll cope...IF we do go.

 

 

If only my 36 year-old self could travel back in time and have a heart-to-heart with my 23 year-old self...

[giotto]

if you really want to try and save your marriage, you need to cut all contacts with the OM and then get your husband in MC with you. He needs IC for himself too. You owe this to your husband, your family and your children. At least you would have tried... if all fails, then I'm sure even your husband will understand...

 

G (in a low sex marriage, staying for the kids after MC failure)

[awakenedatlast]

Hi Giotto, and thanks for your reply.

 

I know that I have to go NC with this guy, even though there's nothing going on I am too hooked on (the fantasy of life with) him to see straight. It's almost like an EA I'm having on my own, in my fantasies...not healthy at all.

 

I don't know if I do want to save my marriage, that's the whole thing.

 

More and more I just think it's over, the love has just died, perhaps for both of us. I know he cares for me, as I do for him, but it's platonic. This predates other guy, by the way, by a looong way.

 

So, the million dollar question: how do I know if I just don't love him anymore? Is there a test somewhere? What would be the purpose of MC if this were the case?

 

I am not sure if I admire you or pity you (in a totally non-judgemental way) for staying with your wife in a low sex mariage for your kids' sake. I refuse to do this anymore (mine is not just low, is damn lousy too). I know I would be a better mother if I was fufilled as a wife. How old are your kids? Mine are still young and I hate the thought of no intimacy and fulfilling sexual love for the next fifteen years...

 

Yeah, I know my husband needs IC, but when I have brought it up it has always been a no-go. He just doesn't do emotions. He's concrete, pragmatic, not cold as such, but it's as though he refuses to or doesn't know how to feel. Thinks psychoanalysis is a load of hogwash.

 

another sigh

Edited May 6, 2010 by awakenedatlast

[Luv2dance]

If only my 36 year-old self could travel back in time and have a heart-to-heart with my 23 year-old self...

 

I wish I had a quarter for every time I thought this same thing! However, I wouldn't trade my girls for anything so don't really want to change the past!

 

Here's a question for you...When you first started dating your husband did you feel a strong attraction to him? You said he struggled with ED even before you were married, but was there some WANT to there in the beginning?

 

We share many similarities in our situations, but a big difference is that my husband is willing to TRY and while he is the lower libido partner and less "adventurous" he is stepping out of his comfort zone. We are in MC and it some ways it is helping at least with our communication. Like you though I

am just not sure there is any love there from my end. So all the trying in the world may not help...makes me very sad to think that.

 

I agree removing the other man from the situation is for the best b/c you can't see things clearly otherwise. You are comparing apples to oranges and that's just not fair.

 

The IC hopefully will help you see what you want and if you can get him to MC then like Giotto said at least you will have done all you can to save the marriage. I feel like I owe that to my children!

 

Just know you aren't alone ((HUGS))

[giotto]

I am not sure if I admire you or pity you (in a totally non-judgemental way) for staying with your wife in a low sex mariage for your kids' sake. I refuse to do this anymore (mine is not just low, is damn lousy too). I know I would be a better mother if I was fufilled as a wife. How old are your kids? Mine are still young and I hate the thought of no intimacy and fulfilling sexual love for the next fifteen years...

 

you see, mine is a low sex marriage... it's not sexless... we are having sex every 10 days and it's usually good (a bit less good recently, though). The difference is that my wife was willing to make an effort and she has made an effort. I appreciate that, although she needs therapy and she is dragging her feet about that. Also, I know she is doing it to keep me here and the family together. This plays a lot on my mind, but then I made the decision to stay, so at least I can enjoy myself a little.

 

We do get along. I doubt she loves me (although she said that)... she cares a lot about me and a few weeks ago she said she could not imagine her life without me (or maybe it's my cooking? ). To be honest, after all the hurt in the last 15 years, I'm ready to go, bit I'm not willing to destroy the family just to be free. We have kids (four... 18, 15, 12 and 9) and we made them and it's my duty to be here to support them. I can't just walk out.

So, I have probably a few years ahead of me in this marriage and I'm 47... but it's a choice I've made and I'm sticking to it (at the moment... ).

 

Hugs

[pillowtalk]

I have fallen hard for someone who is the total opposite of my husband, practically as soon as I met him, although I know this is basically a strong physical atraction/infatuation, as I don't really know him that well (we share a sports interest and see each other one hour a week.) He has done nothing to encourage me bar a little flirting, and nothing has happened although I dream about him all the time, 'what if...' and all that. I can honestly say I have never, ever felt this physically attracted to anyone before, it's electric and while I am under no illusions about the way he feels about me, sense that there is attraction on his side too. I should add that he's 5 years younger than me and single. I suppose if I were a bit younger, not married and had no kids he would ask me out for a drink, but I doubt very strongly he sees me as a potential life partner

 

Wow, this is extremely similar to my situation, so I understand completely what you're going through here. The situation with my husband is a bit different, but I developed a crush on a man I work with that developed into an Emotional Affair. More intense from my side than his, I'm sure. After all, when intimacy falls apart with your husband you begin to feel very lonely and sexually frustrated. The bio-chemicals that result in attraction to someone are off the charts. I fantasized about my OM big time, and wish now I had not, but it's easy to get carried away. I spent a lot of time with my OM alone at work, and we soon started making excuses to spend time alone together. No physical contact, but we flirted a lot, and he eventually asked me out for a drink. At this point I was separated from my H, and I said yes to that drink. Unfortunately (or, fortunately), things fell apart and he canceled on me. I was absolutely crushed. That was 2 weeks ago. Things have been awkward since, with OM popping in/out of my life showing interest in me at times but keeping me at arms length. I don't understand what's going on, and it's inevitable that we will have to have a talk.

 

To be honest, on paper, my husband is the ideal man (apart from ED and lousy in bed) whereas this other guy really isn't 'the ideal man'; but my goodness he just gets every atom of my being buzzing when I'm with him.

 

I told someone this exact same thing about my husband being ideal on paper. Any idiot would pick my H over the OM for me for a long-term partner. The problem is, my marriage has been a very lonely place for the last few years, I am sexually frustrated, and overwhelmingly attracted to OM.

 

I have told my husband that I am having serious doubts about our future and my feelings for him, we've talked about some of the issues (but not the other man) and have agreed that IF we want to save our marriage MC is the way to go. Before I can do that, though, I need to really know what I feel and want so have been going to IC for the last month. It IS helping me recognise that what I feel is valid and not 'wrong'.

 

I told my H the same thing. I haven't told him about OM, but that I'm afraid if we don't get this fixed that one of us is going to end up having an affair. We are separated, both in IC, but need more progress on that before entering into MC.

 

One thing I find strange though, is that my therpaist is more or less encouraging me to have an affair, or at least have sex with this other guy at least once, I suppose to 'get him out of my system'. I was a bit surprised, but as I live in continental Europe I suppose it's maybe more tolerated here, seen as 'just sex'??? The thing is, to me it wouldn't be just sex as I already feel too much for this guy, hesitate to say I'm in love but it's close to being that. And so I know that it would just complicate matters more....

 

My therapist has done the same thing - basically encouraging me to have an affair. She thinks it will be good for me on some level, but honestly I think it could only end in disaster. I, too, am SO attracted to this OM that at times it feels like being "in love" but I know rationally that it can't be - there is still too much I don't know about him. Again, once those bio-chemicals in your brain get going they will fool you into thinking you are "in love". The problem is, the OM is most likely NOT going through the same thing you are and I'm guessing he won't be able to reciprocate feelings at the same level. Also, believe me, this is the worst possible time in your life to start a relationship with someone. Chances are very high that it wouldn't end well, crushing you even further.

 

As far as "complicating matters more" - yes, definitely. I am trying to resolve things with my husband while at the same time my emotions are on a runaway rollercoaster associated with interactions with OM at work. It is a huge distraction from the really important matter at hand - my marriage. If I could cut contact with OM that would be the best thing for me, but we work together so that's impossible. My only hope is to discuss with OM and establish that we are going to only be friends.

 

Soooo, I have decided that I need to cut all contact with him to be able to get him out of the equation. I need to know if, once he's no longer on the scene, I feel differently about MC with my husband. I'm hoping here that 'out of sight, out of mind' while work its magic. I told him last night that I wouldn't be re-enroilling in September for the sport lesson and he looked as though he had been slapped in the face and I was almost in tears. (He doesn't know how I feel, but I suppose he may suspect something by the way he looks at me sometimes.) I have felt sick since, feel as though my heart and guts have been ripped from me and can't stop crying. I KNOW this is the right thing to do, so why, why, why does it hurt so much?

 

That is so courageous of you to do that. Your husband is a very fortunate man that you have taken this huge step. You need the OM out of your life if you are going to concentrate on examining and fixing your marriage.

 

I feel sick, too. The OM is the first thing that pops into my head when I wake up every morning, and it takes some serious effort to keep thoughts of him out of my head. If I do think about him, I end up with a seriously upset stomach. I don't feel like eating, and have lost too much weight due to all of this.

 

One last comment... Try not to be too hard on yourself. Sometimes it is attraction to an OM that causes us to seriously examine the problems in our marriages - especially when the marriage is devoid of intimacy. So, although it can cause great heartache and misery, it may be an inevitable part of the process in examining our lives and finding true happiness.

[kevinconner]

There is a book out there that goes into the now 17 types of affairs people can partake in ( for years I think there were only 7). Truth is affairs are growing more common and in part, I think it relates to two things:

 

1. We are no longer living lives that are as compatible with the marriage contract as it was designed to accomlish. Social media, long work hours, dual incomes, teetering economy. All of this strains a marriage, and now, many people have choices outside their marriage to solve them, where in the past it was much more difficult. Imagine having an emotional affiar using paper and the mail?

 

2. I too have had my therapist simply say, "....stop talking about "her". Ask her out, see where it goes. You may learn something about yourself." I was shocked by this. But then I started to realize that I am not alone, there are plenty of questionable marriages out there, and the therapists are seeing SOME success with this model.

 

Your biggest issue is sexual self esteem. Other people would shake their heads as to why you married in the first place knowing this. Sexual issues at the start of a marriage tend to get worse over time....not better.

 

But, you are in no shape ready for a physical relationship. Its easy, but it is going to open a whole barnyard full of doors you don't know exist. You'll have sex, it will be wonderful, and then you will be blind to the issues you still have to deal with.

 

This is why going first to IC BEFORE you embark on MC is critical. Don't bring IC issues into MC . The point is to understand why you feel the way you do, correct your own internal logic on what is best for you, and then decide if it works inside marriage. You may find that indeed it does.

 

You must first learn to love yourself enough to fully put living alone on the table. Barely any new marriages work out ( less than .03%) when a spouse leaves and marries their affair partner. Don't go out in a ball of flames when you already have the tools to manage that transition for yourself, either staying marriage or having enough sense of who you are to know that it is indeed to bad to stay.

[awakenedatlast]

Luv2dance, thanks for your message and support. I love my kids to bits, too, so don't totally regret my situation.

 

The thing is, regarding initial attraction, I just don't know anymore. I am aware that marital history gets rewritten in cases lke this, but hand on heart, I can honestly say that no, I have never felt passion for my husband. He is attractive, although he has gained quite a bit of weight. A big part of the attraction was to do with the safety and security he represented. But I'm a big girl now....

 

Good luck with workig out your own problems. I know I have to give MC a shot for precisely the reason you and Giotto state (my kids). The thing is, I wish my heart was in it. It feels like my head is telling me to be grown up about it all and try and fix what'sbroken and my heart is telling me its over.

[awakenedatlast]

Hi Giotto,

 

OK, I get where you're coming from, but it's still not something I can accept willingly anymore. There's just too much resentment. To quote Fairground Attraction 'I don't want a half-hearted love affair/marriage'. OK, so I know it will never be perfect, but there's still a waaaaaaaaay lot of improvement possible until it is anything like satisfying. Not just sex and intimacy, other issues too.

 

Wishing you the best of luck and strength.

 

Hugs to you too.

[awakenedatlast]

Thank you so much, Pillowtalk, for sharing your story with me. It really has helped put things into perspective even if it doesn't change my feelings (for husband or OM) or dull my pain. It helps to know that I am not losing my mind and the plot, totally and that what I feel is to some extent 'normal', whatever that means...

 

I checked out your thread on separation and followed a link you posted which really helped. I KNOW that what I feel for this other guy is just a chemical high, but knowing that doesn't just make it disappear, unfortunatley.

 

I'm sorry you're going through something similar, but it sounds as though you are in control of the situation. I'd love to hear how you're getting on.

If I didn't have children I am pretty sure I would already have moved out too, not necessarily for good, but to give us both a chance to try and see straight.

 

It is sweet torture seeing the other man (we had our lesson tonight) and knowing that the way he looks at me, the double-entendres and cheeky smiles are just teasing and that, as you say, he just doesn't feel the same. It is another form of torture being with my husband and feeling the way I do, (or rather NOT feeling the way I wish I did). You are right, marriage can be one heck of a lonely place...

 

I really appreciate what you wrote about not being too hard on myself. I have been beating myself up for months, have been losing sleep, feel like the world's worst wife. I have also come to the conclusion that this is, in fact, an opportunity to put things right, whether that means working on and building a NEW marriage which is satisfying, or having the strength to recognise that it is over and that it's time to move on. And yes, I know that OM's arms (supposing they were open to me, which they are not) is not the place I need to be aiming for should we decide to call it a day.

 

Thanks again.

[awakenedatlast]

Thanks for your message KevinConner. I too believe that there is no point in going to MC until I fix what's broken in me. And (sexual) self esteem is one issue that we are already starting to address in IC. In a purely selfish way, I need this to be sorted out whether I stay with my husband or not as I am pretty sure any other relationship will suffer if I am not 'solid' enough.

 

I thought about leaving my husband three years ago but decided against it partly out of fear of the unknown and basically lack of courage. I am no longer in that mind set. What's holding me back today is feelings of guilt: what right do I have to totally screw up three other people's lives (husband and two children) just beacause I am not happy?

 

Strange that your therapist suggested you go ahead and initiate an affair too. If I was the kind of person who could separate sex and emotions I would maybe consider it just for the physical release and the validation, however 'wrong' it is, and the hope that it would help me get this guy out of my system. But I know it would make things a hudred times worse....

 

Thaks again, and all the best to you.

[You Go Girl]

How come therapists don't realize that an affair would make things so much worse?

An affair is like taking high blood pressure medicine for cancer.

This is a really scary thought, but do therapists get so tired of listening to people's complaints year after year that they just simply suggest acts that sabotage because they don't care?

I would like one of you to ask your therapist why they suggest you do something secretive and betraying, and report back with their answer. It's a little mind-boggling to me. I imagine--therapists don't want to discuss affairs in moral terms? Alright, forget the morality of it. What about the effects it has on a marriage?

 

Kudos to all of you for being grounded and realizing it is a chemical high.

[seibert253]

Awakened and Pillow, I have a few observations

 

Both of you have related that you've discussed your unsatisfaction with your marriages, and particularly your lack of sex life.

 

When I read your similar stories one thing seems to keep popping up. I'm a guy by the way, so I can give you a guys perspective.

 

A lot of us guys "just don't get it", until we're hit upside the head with a 2X4, and we have that "oh sh#t, she really is not happy" moment. Been there and done that.

 

You two seem like you truely "havent completely" given up. If you did, you'd already be gone, or more deeply involved in what many of us will agree are your inappropriate relationships, or A's.

 

IMO I think it's time for that all or nothing hail mary pass.

 

Want to REALLY get your H's attention? Tell him about the OM in your lives, and your true feelings and attractions to them. Pillow, tell your H about your A. Trust me, this will get their attention.

At first your H's will be upset and angry, but if they truely love each of you, they will step up to the plate and do whatever is necessary to fix their issues. But, ladies, you also have to be willing to address your issues, whatever they will be.

 

If your H's do nothing after your revelations, well then maybe it is time to cut bait if that's what you truely want.

 

Good Luck to each of you.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Want to REALLY get your H's attention? Tell him about the OM in your lives, and your true feelings and attractions to them. Pillow, tell your H about your A. Trust me, this will get their attention.

At first your H's will be upset and angry, but if they truely love each of you, they will step up to the plate and do whatever is necessary to fix their issues. But, ladies, you also have to be willing to address your issues, whatever they will be.

 

If your H's do nothing after your revelations, well then maybe it is time to cut bait if that's what you truely want.

 

IMHO, above is the perfect idea...