xxoo Posted May 11, 2010 Posted May 11, 2010 It's all about setting boundaries and respecting/enforcing them. I wouldn't stay friends with someone who wasn't supportive and respectful of my relationship. Bingo. That's the secret, right there.
Green Posted May 11, 2010 Posted May 11, 2010 Bingo. That's the secret, right there. Yeah that is the answer, though its no secret. I disagree with the boundaries where it is ok to go singing, or making music alone with a member of the oposite sex.
califnan Posted May 11, 2010 Posted May 11, 2010 Yeah that is the answer, though its no secret. I disagree with the boundaries where it is ok to go singing, or making music alone with a member of the oposite sex. -------------------- I agree. "Bingo" is not conclusive if marrieds frequent communication with opposite sex - friendships. Imaginary (moveable) "boundaries" .. give excuse - but still: use others to ingratiate the marriage.
xxoo Posted May 11, 2010 Posted May 11, 2010 I disagree with the boundaries where it is ok to go singing, or making music alone with a member of the oposite sex. If the singing friend is supportive of and respectful of the marriage, I don't see the issue at all. It might not be right for your relationship, but that doesn't make it wrong for someone else. Now, "making music" conjures up other images, lol....but I assume you were talking about actual music? So, a person couldn't be in a band, for instance, if there were members of the opposite sex? Sounds like prison to me. This would be an important point of compatibility for me when choosing a partner.
xxoo Posted May 11, 2010 Posted May 11, 2010 -Imaginary (moveable) "boundaries" .. give excuse - but still: use others to ingratiate the marriage. Just because you don't understand or agree with the boundaries doesn't make them imaginary or moveable. A boundary I have is: Would I do/say this if my partner were next to me? If not, don't do it.
NSGurl Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 Exactly xxoo. I find the whole friends debate a bit degrading to all of us. Yes, of course we can be friends. We'd be denying ourselves some wonderful experiences, understanding and growth if we forbid it. The key is to be respectful.
sally4sara Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 Exactly xxoo. I find the whole friends debate a bit degrading to all of us. Yes, of course we can be friends. We'd be denying ourselves some wonderful experiences, understanding and growth if we forbid it. The key is to be respectful. I know what you're saying. When ever, in the past, a guy I was dating voiced concerns about or said they were not cool with me having guy friends or hanging out around guys - all I could hear in their concerns was the implication of what THEY would do if they had a female friend or hung out with women. "I don't want my GF (activity inserted here) with a guy" because if I did that, I WOULD cheat. And I took my new information about these two guys and decided they were not someone I could trust in a relationship. I felt that they were saying that if they had a female friend and found feelings developing in them or that friend, they would not handle it with integrity and just give into their loins.
OWoman Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 If there's already a close relationship...and/or if there's any kind of 'hidden' attraction (which is pretty darned common)...then the risk of that escalating into an affair is far greater than if there's no pre-existing opposite sex friendship in place to jump from. Owl, I disagree with this. I have MANY close male friends. And yes, some of them have admitted to attraction to me. BUT... they're friends. I've filed them in the "friends" box. That means I would never ever ever mingle body fluids with them. For me, that would be incestuous. Friends, IMO, are the family you choose. And the same way I wouldn't shag my brother or my son :sick: or my stepson :sick: - I wouldn't shag my friends. Not the females, not the males, not the transgendered ones. They're friends. If I'd wanted them as lovers, they'd be in that box, and not the friends box. Nothing is ever going to happen - whether their M hits a low (if they're M) or mine does. I lost a close friend because his new W found our close friendship threatening. He still sometimes surreptitiously emails me behind her back, desperate to rekindle what was once a really great friendship - but I've let it go, sadly, because I'm not prepared to be some dark secret to be indulged in when someone has the time, opportunity and inclination. To me, it's either going to be a proper, full-on friendship with everything that that implies... or we're not friends. So, much as I love him, I've let go of the friendship, respecting the consequence of his choice to marry a deeply insecure woman. Truth is - she has absolutely nothing to fear from me. I know her H is attracted to me - I've known him for decades, since during my first M and his, through both of our Ds, through our years of happy singlehood, and into our second Ms. I've had plenty of opportunities to "take things further" with him, and haven't been interested. He's a lovely guy - but I'm not sexually attracted to him. He's a friend - or was. Now he's a lonely, rather frustrated H who sounds more depressed each time he tries to contact me. I hope they're happy together, at least.
Star727 Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 Men and women can be friends as long as its not a "secret relationship". My WH and OW were in a secret friendship for 10 years and I had no idea they were that close. All of us work at the same place but in different buildings. I saw the cell phone detail billing and saw for 2 years they talked to each other 5-7 times a day, 7 days a week even when we were on vacation. I found out he's been going to her house. She's divorced and lives alone. That doesnt sound like platonic friends. That sounds like two people in a long term relationship. Now I have male friends and we talk on the phone a couple of times a week. These guys are friends to both of us and I always tell my WH that they called and discuss what we talked about. I've never kept secret a conversation from my male friends. My WH has kept this lady a secret and after I confronted both of them and demanded NC, they kept it going to the point he went and got a secret prepaid cell phone. So if the relationship was only platonic (which he swears by), why is it so hard for them to end contact if it was nothing going on?
sally4sara Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 I lost a close friend because his new W found our close friendship threatening. He still sometimes surreptitiously emails me behind her back, desperate to rekindle what was once a really great friendship - but I've let it go, sadly, because I'm not prepared to be some dark secret to be indulged in when someone has the time, opportunity and inclination. To me, it's either going to be a proper, full-on friendship with everything that that implies... or we're not friends. So, much as I love him, I've let go of the friendship, respecting the consequence of his choice to marry a deeply insecure woman. Truth is - she has absolutely nothing to fear from me. I know her H is attracted to me - I've known him for decades, since during my first M and his, through both of our Ds, through our years of happy singlehood, and into our second Ms. I've had plenty of opportunities to "take things further" with him, and haven't been interested. He's a lovely guy - but I'm not sexually attracted to him. He's a friend - or was. Now he's a lonely, rather frustrated H who sounds more depressed each time he tries to contact me. I hope they're happy together, at least. This example has an inappropriate nature. HE has an attraction to you and HE will go behind her back. His wife is not just being insecure she knows he isn't capable of having a respectful platonic relationship. Her reaction isn't so much about feeling threatened by you, but her husband's integrity. You could be anyone and the friendship would still be troubling for that very reason. You might not be the one being inappropriate, but it is still an inappropriate friendship because he is interested in more than just friendship and he isn't respectful of boundaries.
OWoman Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 This example has an inappropriate nature. HE has an attraction to you and HE will go behind her back. His wife is not just being insecure she knows he isn't capable of having a respectful platonic relationship. Her reaction isn't so much about feeling threatened by you, but her husband's integrity. You could be anyone and the friendship would still be troubling for that very reason. You might not be the one being inappropriate, but it is still an inappropriate friendship because he is interested in more than just friendship and he isn't respectful of boundaries. s4s he has always been very respectful of boundaries - until she forbade him to remain friends with me. He knows full well that the attraction is not reciprocated, and he's cool with that. Any fantasies he may have tucked away are of the same order as guys drooling over Marilyn Monroe pictures - I'm as accessible to him as a dead movie star, and even if I was available to him, he knows that the reality would be nothing like the fantasy (as would shagging the dead Marilyn ) so it's not anything he'd ever pursue IRL. This we know. The thing is, he grew up in a very conservative context, and he was very religious when I met him. I was like nothing he'd ever seen before, and as a result of our friendship he discovered all kinds of things about himself that he'd kept deeply suppressed for decades. It caused strain during his first M, and he Dd. His 1st W - who I tried to include in the friendship, but she wouldn't - told him I was a "bad influence". His 2nd W - also very religious - feels the same. And it's true - I do encourage him to step outside of the strictures of conventionality and conformity, which he finds liberating and they find threatening. I probably am the woman his mother warned him about... And because their M is predicated on him returning to the religious fold, going back to the church he turned his back on and lobotomising himself, he feels torn. He loves her, but he wants to be ALL of himself, as he'd grown to be. The friends she approves of (hers) don't facilitate that - they find it alien and wrong. He's a scientist, but he has to pretend to believe in literal creationism because they think evolution is the work of the devil! But it's a choice he made, and he must live with it. But I don't see the friendship as inappropriate, per se. It may be inappropriate FOR THEIR MARRIAGE - and I respect that and back off - but as a friendship, it was great.
Star727 Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 My WH's OW thinks I'm insecure also but I got news for her. What woman would be okay with her husband having a secret relationship with another woman? I don't care of they never did anything sexual, emotional attachment to each other is not good. Its not okay for him to sneak off at night and go to her house. Its not okay for him to call her several times a day and night. What kind of conversations would a MM and a divorced woman have with each other several times a day if its not in a "courting" type of way? I talked to male friends a couple of times a week. We talk politics, sports, tv shows, etc. but I do not have conversation for NO ONE several times a day, every freaking day and weekends. I'm secure in knowing that there relationship is completely inappropriate and he can walk around looking depressed cause he cant have that relationship anymore but he should not have made it secret and he should not have had that much contact with her. Especially when you start going to that person's house and you are married. Thats too much to ask a wife to trust
NSGurl Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 So back to my original question, can married people be friends with the opposite sex or is it just too risky? Star727, in your sitch, I agree that it would fall under too risky. And I'm guessing that any future friendships will be scrutinized through a new lens. I still contend that some people are capable of maintaining a friends only connection with a married person.
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