Can women and men be "friends"?

[xxoo]

I guess I don't see how my comment about how boundaries in how much you let a friendship influence your life (that you've committed to sharing with someone else) isn't relevent?

 

Your point is relevant. Mutually agreed upon boundaries are important!

 

But the fact remains that many couples can have friendships without crossing (their) boundaries or inviting unhealthy influence. Happens all the time.

[sally4sara]

Are you truely incapable of comprehending what this thread is about?

 

There is an objective difference between having a private relationship and a working relationship with the oposite sex.

 

Your inability to realize these diferences would explain you lack of boundaries.

 

Ah Green, maybe if your relationship was more interesting you wouldn't be so upset by the life and practices of people you don't date. Why do you care how we live? I don't care how you live. And I will continue to share my interests with people I enjoy talking to regardless of their gender.

Maybe it is the over interest of other people's sexual orientation and assignment that motivates some people to angle for affairs?

If I'm only making friends with one particular gender and orientation, I have to first focus on that aspect of them before friendly interaction. I don't, so it stands to reason that I don't approach or avoid with an affair on my mind.

[Feelin Frisky]

I have found that this "friend" thing is horde ****. It's a way for women (not al but many) to take financial advantage of a guy who still has hopes in which she convinces herself there's some kind of friend dynamic. I never been treated to anything by a female except one that cared about me as a love interest. Sorry to say but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

 

I might look at it as pleasant but light aquaintances, but "friends" is going too far. I might introduce a girl a my friend early on in dating before the word girl eventualy is to be inserted in front of friend.

[Owl]

And is being used by SOME as the all encompassing inevitable saga of a male/female friendship. That it WILL turn into an affair, or that it is ALWAYS ONLY because a marriage or partnership is lacking excitement, and it's the fact of the opposing chromosomes that is the ONLY reason for the friendship.

 

I call BS on that.

 

And I call BS on you calling BS...LOL!

 

Obviously, it won't ALWAYS turn into an affair. But the risk exists, and for a lot of people the risk isn't worth the benefits.

 

You place a much higher value on your friendships than some others (including myself) do. Many others consider your actions 'risky' and place a higher value on protecting their marriage from that risk than the friendship.

 

But...I'm not married to you, nor are you coming to me asking for advice on your marriage or friendships. If you WERE...I'd provide my thoughts/opinions on the subject.

 

There is no "right or wrong" here.

 

It's ALL opinion.

[Owl]

Tell SOME people that.

 

I thought I just did??? :)

 

Everyone's just here to post their opinion on the subject.

 

I don't understand why it's getting personal.

[xxoo]

You place a much higher value on your friendships than some others (including myself) do. Many others consider your actions 'risky' and place a higher value on protecting their marriage from that risk than the friendship.

 

This is a great point of misunderstanding each other, I believe.

 

If my H and I subscribed to the "no friends of opposite sex" model, I believe our marriage would suffer. We wouldn't be as happy as individuals without our friendships, and, as a result, we'd be less happy as a couple.

 

YES, we are each other's best friends--but our other friendships add to our happiness and overall fulfillment as people. Our "couple happiness" is directly related to our "individual happiness".

 

So, personally, I view the "no friends" idea as "risky". I choose trust because I place a higher value on protecting our marriage. We live the balance that feels healthiest to us, as a couple. Our balance may not be right for you as a couple--and that's perfectly valid. But it doesn't mean that we value our marriage any less.

[Green]

Ah Green, maybe if your relationship was more interesting you wouldn't be so upset by the life and practices of people you don't date. Why do you care how we live? I don't care how you live. And I will continue to share my interests with people I enjoy talking to regardless of their gender.

Maybe it is the over interest of other people's sexual orientation and assignment that motivates some people to angle for affairs?

If I'm only making friends with one particular gender and orientation, I have to first focus on that aspect of them before friendly interaction. I don't, so it stands to reason that I don't approach or avoid with an affair on my mind.

 

is that hard for you to understand the thread is titled "Can women and men be "friends"?

 

I'm not upset by your life practices as I wouldn't put up with it in my relationship because I disagree with your boundaries as explained in this thread to involve private conversations with a women you yourself predicted would do this.

[sally4sara]

is that hard for you to understand the thread is titled "Can women and men be "friends"?

 

I'm not upset by your life practices as I wouldn't put up with it in my relationship because I disagree with your boundaries as explained in this thread to involve private conversations with a women you yourself predicted would do this.

 

Well I'm not psychic Green, she could have been able to recognize that her life style is not one everyone else wishes to participate in and continued to act right and as a respectful friend. He gave her the chance to be so, and she crapped all over it.

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I'm not right ALL the time.

[Owl]

This is a great point of misunderstanding each other, I believe.

 

If my H and I subscribed to the "no friends of opposite sex" model, I believe our marriage would suffer. We wouldn't be as happy as individuals without our friendships, and, as a result, we'd be less happy as a couple.

 

YES, we are each other's best friends--but our other friendships add to our happiness and overall fulfillment as people. Our "couple happiness" is directly related to our "individual happiness".

 

So, personally, I view the "no friends" idea as "risky". I choose trust because I place a higher value on protecting our marriage. We live the balance that feels healthiest to us, as a couple. Our balance may not be right for you as a couple--and that's perfectly valid. But it doesn't mean that we value our marriage any less.

 

 

I'll accept that, and apologize if I came across offensively. No offense was intended, and I definitely can see your point.

[sally4sara]

How about my first female roomate?

She had been married to a man, but things didn't work out. I'd known her since middle school and was totally caught off guard when she started talking about how nice it would be to come home to me as her wife.

I moved out. Problem solved.

[Owl]

All of these are great examples of what should happen when a boundary is crossed.

 

The issue comes about when the boundaries aren't understood. Or when the marriage is in a low point (and it happens, all relationships go through cycles) and for whatever reason, the boundaries AREN'T enforced.

 

If there's already a close relationship...and/or if there's any kind of 'hidden' attraction (which is pretty darned common)...then the risk of that escalating into an affair is far greater than if there's no pre-existing opposite sex friendship in place to jump from.

 

Again, I see your points...I'm just pointing out the risks that the people are seeing here.

[sally4sara]

All of these are great examples of what should happen when a boundary is crossed.

 

The issue comes about when the boundaries aren't understood. Or when the marriage is in a low point (and it happens, all relationships go through cycles) and for whatever reason, the boundaries AREN'T enforced.

 

If there's already a close relationship...and/or if there's any kind of 'hidden' attraction (which is pretty darned common)...then the risk of that escalating into an affair is far greater than if there's no pre-existing opposite sex friendship in place to jump from.

 

Again, I see your points...I'm just pointing out the risks that the people are seeing here.

 

I can see that and it is a fair point. Though I feel that has more to do with a lack of communication in the relationship rather than having a risky social attitude.

We've yet to have any real low point in regards to our happiness with each other. We've gone through some rough stuff, but it has been more about extended family issues, death of a loved one, and job stress rather than dissatisfaction with each other. If that changes, I have reasons to believe we would be able to openly address these issues without acting out.

Yes, no one knows what the future holds, but I do not see how living like it is imminent could prevent this. I feel instead, it could actually promote it.

[Owl]

Agreed. But it's one thing to discuss risks, and quite ANOTHER to take pot shots at someone's relationship.

 

True.

 

But I'm not taking pot shots. I'm focusing on the discussion at hand.

[Owl]

I can see that and it is a fair point. Though I feel that has more to do with a lack of communication in the relationship rather than having a risky social attitude.

We've yet to have any real low point in regards to our happiness with each other. We've gone through some rough stuff, but it has been more about extended family issues, death of a loved one, and job stress rather than dissatisfaction with each other. If that changes, I have reasons to believe we would be able to openly address these issues without acting out.

Yes, no one knows what the future holds, but I do not see how living like it is imminent could prevent this. I feel instead, it could actually promote it.

 

I can agree with that.

 

As a matter of fact, I probably would have written your post and viewpoint 10 years ago.

 

It wasn't until we went through the rough times that we did that we learned the risks, and adopted this viewpoint we've got on opposite sex friends. You learn from experience. We had this experience that taught us something new.

 

You may never experience the same thing (and I hope you don't!).

 

Again, not a matter of right or wrong. Just a matter of perspective and opinion, based off where we've each been in our lives.

[Green]

This brings to mind another example:

 

I HAD this guy friend who KNEW I had a man who said he wanted to get together to play some music. I'd known him for a few years casually. We did get together; totally innocent - had a good time. THEN I get back home and he texts me that he saw my feet in my sandals and wanted to suck my toes. I told him that now I would feel weird around him, so we could no longer be friends.

 

Problem solved. I didn't have a CLUE he would have ever gone there. As soon as he did - we were done.

 

So, you see, there IS a risk of one person thinking there could be more. But there are TWO people involved in the friendship. Get it?

 

My friend that I go do karaoke with knows and respects my man and what we have together.

 

I disagree with your boundaries. For me I would not want a relationship where my gf/wife went out and spent private time whether it but making music or singing songs.

 

Your clue that it could go there was that he invited you to privately play music with him

 

All of these are great examples of what should happen when a boundary is crossed.

 

The issue comes about when the boundaries aren't understood. Or when the marriage is in a low point (and it happens, all relationships go through cycles) and for whatever reason, the boundaries AREN'T enforced.

 

If there's already a close relationship...and/or if there's any kind of 'hidden' attraction (which is pretty darned common)...then the risk of that escalating into an affair is far greater than if there's no pre-existing opposite sex friendship in place to jump from.

 

Again, I see your points...I'm just pointing out the risks that the people are seeing here.

 

Would you be happy if your wife wanted to go make music with another man? Would you want to be in a relationship where your partner regularly went out just her and another man to sing?

 

This alone would be crossing a boundary, the fact that she got a txt saying "I want to suck your toes" is just adding insult to injury.

 

True.

 

But I'm not taking pot shots. I'm focusing on the discussion at hand.

 

The fact of the matter is the only people who have taken pot shots are the acusers themselves. They are so shaken and so angry when some one doesn't agree with there views on women men friendships that they personaly attack any poster who disagrees with some story or comment they have posted.

[sally4sara]

 

The fact of the matter is the only people who have taken pot shots are the acusers themselves. They are so shaken and so angry when some one doesn't agree with there views on women men friendships that they personaly attack any poster who disagrees with some story or comment they have posted.

 

Oh Green!

 

I posted my opinion without insulting anyone (till you and others tossed insults my way). I know it helps you to feel better about your opinion by thinking your words worry and scare us they way you are worried and scared about your GF and yourself associating with others - the fact was, I went to bed. You bore me for the most part. Sometimes you're kinda amusing tho I don't think you're intending to be so. The rest? Its your right to live how you will. No amount of the way others live should trouble you this much if you are convinced it is the best way for you to be.

[pureinheart]

Obviously there are no absolutes, but from my experience, this is playing with fire. Friendship/confidante is who my whole A got started. Revealing, sharing, getting close then once the emotional hooks are in it's hard to break free.

 

Since the disclosure, colleagues have approached me for friendship and sometimes you want to meet for coffee to discuss business. But I have a whole new awareness/paranoia antennae that I sprouted since my A. The naivete is gone. And I'm always thinking does this guy want more, my neighbor want more, is the pastor checking me out, etc. Gone are the co-ed days when you could sit in a Starbucks and wax on poetically about life, love and whatever. For me this desire has never really left me, but I found out the hard way I have to channel it appropriately. Journaling, LS, blogging, thru my H and girlfriends.

 

So back to my original question, can married people be friends with the opposite sex or is it just too risky?

 

 

IMO in most cases playing the "friend" card is not cool. I heard a lot.."we are 'just' friends". Whenever I heard that, I knew.

 

Most of the churches I have gone/go to teach against the male/female "friendship" based on the fact that one is playing with fire.

[sally4sara]

Pot shots. ALL of 'em.

AND what started all the sh-t slinging.

 

Oh I have a suspicion about the motivation. That having different views in other threads leaves some upset and vindictive; wishing that people with different views didn't seem so happy having them.

 

But isn't that part of why people come here? Part of why they start the threads they do? They want to see if their views are shared and if the people who share them are made happy and successful by those views.

[sally4sara]

But what if there is no "playing" of any "cards" and people are just friends. You know... Friends?

 

And what about the bi-sexual couple we have all brought up that all the fearful people continually ignore? They DO exist, you know. Are they allowed NO friends? At all?

 

they just have to make ugly friends only and talk only about the weather.

[pureinheart]

But what if there is no "playing" of any "cards" and people are just friends. You know... Friends?

 

And what about the bi-sexual couple we have all brought up that all the fearful people continually ignore? They DO exist, you know. Are they allowed NO friends? At all?

 

It can very easily develope into something it was never meant to be...the "innocent" thing...and that does happen.

 

I'm not bi-sexual, so have no opinion, except I don't agree with being bi-sexual, although have friends and family that are. I don't agree with a lot of what goes on in this day and hour. I don't understand the dynamics of bi-sexuality...that might sound weird, but it's true;).

[Owl]

My man is, fortunately, secure enough in me, in our relationship, AND in himself to be confident that I will always do the right thing where we are concerned. And I in him, ours, and myself.

 

Donna, not trying to pick a fight, but I really want to make this point.

 

All of us who have been betrayed...all of us who suffered through this kind of thing and are now saying that opposite sex friends are a risk...

 

...all of us....

 

...felt the same way you do before it happened.

 

I'm not saying that you're wrong for feeling this way. You're situation may well be that secure.

 

What I'm saying is that everyone feels that way until something happens that changes their perspective. That's what's happened to me, and no doubt to the majority of others who have concerns about opposite sex friends.

 

Don't be so quick to judge that those of us who feel this way are wrong, or somehow flawed in our thinking. We're no more 'flawed' than you are...but many of us have had bitter experience different than yours that changed our views.

[sally4sara]

Donna, not trying to pick a fight, but I really want to make this point.

 

All of us who have been betrayed...all of us who suffered through this kind of thing and are now saying that opposite sex friends are a risk...

 

...all of us....

 

...felt the same way you do before it happened.

 

I'm not saying that you're wrong for feeling this way. You're situation may well be that secure.

 

What I'm saying is that everyone feels that way until something happens that changes their perspective. That's what's happened to me, and no doubt to the majority of others who have concerns about opposite sex friends.

 

Don't be so quick to judge that those of us who feel this way are wrong, or somehow flawed in our thinking. We're no more 'flawed' than you are...but many of us have had bitter experience different than yours that changed our views.

 

Yeah, my exhusband cheated. It sucked but it was not our worst problem nor did it end my spirit. The relationship ended and I never took him back. I survived it, if it happened again - I'd survive that too. And part of feeling I did survive it has to do with not carrying that fear around inside me to every relationship after it.

[Owl]

Then I guess we'll have to chalk it up to learning different lessons from the same experience.

 

We've both expressed our views...time for me to move on.

[sally4sara]

That was a great phrase there, s4s.

 

Thanks!

I will admit if I had tried to stay in a marriage with him after he cheated I'd likely see things much differently.

[sweetjasmine]

The "idea" here is that opposite sex friends have the risk of turning into an affair.

 

Opposite sex anything has the risk of turning into an affair.

 

It's all about setting boundaries and respecting/enforcing them. I wouldn't stay friends with someone who wasn't supportive and respectful of my relationship.