Author joey66 Posted May 3, 2010 Author Posted May 3, 2010 Only last week I was in the same situation as you. Didn't know what the hell was going on with a guy who was blowing hot and cold. We tried to have the 'This has to stop' conversation about a month ago and all that did was make it all more complicated because he chose that meeting to kiss me. After that we tried NC and failed. I wasn't sure where I stood so last week I made a decision and that was that I was going to make the decision, I was going to take control. So I sent him a text saying that from now on we should ignore eachother because basically it was doing my head in. I'm not sure if I sent this to get a reaction or what but I didn't get a reply, although I know he got it because he ignored me the next day. By the following day I wasn't sure this was such a good idea so I sent him an email (despite him telling me not to send any more emails) stating that I was a bit peed off because I didn't know where I stod and also that I had told him to bugger off because I didn't think he had the balls to do it himself (got no reply to that email either). In the end he spoke to me in person the following day to say that it couldn't carry on and he gave me the reasons why, which I won't go into on here (but roughly it was about the home situation and suspicions etc) but I totally understood and accepted his reason, so really I could start moving on then. Ok I have to see him most days and the conversation is ok, we still get on and I find it difficult but once he gave me a reason for it not continuing with the EA I felt that there was closure and in a way I think that is what you need, you need closure of some type and maybe you need to prompt it, as difficult as it may be, because it doesn't sound like she's going to do it herself! You are stronger than I am. I have tried many times to maintain NC and haven't yet managed it. He wanted to have the "this has to stop" conversation and he kissed you? Seems like mixed signals. Or did you initiate the conversation? (If only she would come to me and have the "this has to stop" conversation, I would feel much better. If she then kissed me, I'm pretty sure my head would explode.)
secretlady76 Posted May 4, 2010 Posted May 4, 2010 You are stronger than I am. I have tried many times to maintain NC and haven't yet managed it. He wanted to have the "this has to stop" conversation and he kissed you? Seems like mixed signals. Or did you initiate the conversation? (If only she would come to me and have the "this has to stop" conversation, I would feel much better. If she then kissed me, I'm pretty sure my head would explode.) He initiated the conversation he was very adamant at the meeting that it had to stop, at the end he kissed me (we're talking full on pash-up here). It was almost like he was talking with his head and acting with everything else! His excuse 'I was trying to relieve some sexual tension....when I talk to you I start thinking about doing other things'. Thanks for that! So you can see that going from that to total NC was somewhat confusing for me but maybe he is a confused soul. Whatever, I decided I didn't really want to carry on being involved with someone that contradictorary, so I took control and basically told him to eff-off. I think you should do the same. I cannot phathom why you are waiting for her to start the conversation, why are you giving her totaly control?.......you only become her puppet then...is that what you want?!
Author joey66 Posted May 4, 2010 Author Posted May 4, 2010 He initiated the conversation he was very adamant at the meeting that it had to stop, at the end he kissed me (we're talking full on pash-up here). It was almost like he was talking with his head and acting with everything else! His excuse 'I was trying to relieve some sexual tension....when I talk to you I start thinking about doing other things'. Thanks for that! So you can see that going from that to total NC was somewhat confusing for me but maybe he is a confused soul. Whatever, I decided I didn't really want to carry on being involved with someone that contradictorary, so I took control and basically told him to eff-off. I think you should do the same. I cannot phathom why you are waiting for her to start the conversation, why are you giving her totaly control?.......you only become her puppet then...is that what you want?! SL - I get what you are saying, but I think you miss the crucial piece. While I would feel better if we had the "this has to stop" conversation (just to have the uncertainty resolved) I would prefer to have the "this has to continue" conversation. Because (get ready for it) I'm kinda in love with her.
secretlady76 Posted May 4, 2010 Posted May 4, 2010 SL - I get what you are saying, but I think you miss the crucial piece. While I would feel better if we had the "this has to stop" conversation (just to have the uncertainty resolved) I would prefer to have the "this has to continue" conversation. Because (get ready for it) I'm kinda in love with her. 'Kind of in love with her'? Better than a few weeks ago when you had declared your undying love for her. May I ask which bit you love? The tormenting bit, the fact she likes to watch you suffer or the bit where she flirts with your friends......or the bit where she ignores you? Sorry, but I can't see much to love there. You've already said that she doesn't love you so where is the point in all this? You said it was the way she made you feel that kept you coming back for more.....I don't see the way she makes you feel as being a positive thing because at the moment she makes you feel used and abused. I don't think it's me missing the crucial point here, I think it's you!!!!
Author joey66 Posted May 4, 2010 Author Posted May 4, 2010 'Kind of in love with her'? Better than a few weeks ago when you had declared your undying love for her. May I ask which bit you love? The tormenting bit, the fact she likes to watch you suffer or the bit where she flirts with your friends......or the bit where she ignores you? Sorry, but I can't see much to love there. You've already said that she doesn't love you so where is the point in all this? You said it was the way she made you feel that kept you coming back for more.....I don't see the way she makes you feel as being a positive thing because at the moment she makes you feel used and abused. I don't think it's me missing the crucial point here, I think it's you!!!! Touché. You are right, of course. And I am pathetic. It's just so hard to let it go. Maybe what you wrote before is correct - I need closure. We were so close, we talked about everything. Then she stopped. With no explanation. And still she won't give me one. I just don't understand. (The "kinda" part was meant to be dramatic understatement.)
secretlady76 Posted May 4, 2010 Posted May 4, 2010 Touché. You are right, of course. And I am pathetic. It's just so hard to let it go. Maybe what you wrote before is correct - I need closure. We were so close, we talked about everything. Then she stopped. With no explanation. And still she won't give me one. I just don't understand. (The "kinda" part was meant to be dramatic understatement.) Maybe she could sense that you were getting keen and she knew that you had fallen for her. Maybe that wasn't what she wanted, so she cut ties with you so you would back off. Either way I think you need closure otherwise you won't get over it and you won't start putting effort in on the home front. We all know how time consuming thinking about these relationships are and whilst you're doing that, you're not putting your 100% at home, which will make home seem worse too. That's just my opinion anyway.
OWoman Posted May 4, 2010 Posted May 4, 2010 Why do OW/OM get so very upset when they find their MM/MW has an OOW/OOM? The point has already been made about the M being a pre-existing condition to the A - in most cases, the OM / OW knows that there's a BS somewhere, but they don't know about any OOPs... usually. But another issue relates to agency. While the MP often presents themselves as being "stuck" in the M, choosing to engage with an OOP is a matter of choice: the MP isn't "stuck" in the A with the OOP, in the same way as they can claim to be "stuck" in the M with the BS. So while the BS is a "fact of life" that the OP has to deal with in a background, structural kind of way, the WS choosing to engage with another OP is an ACT of betrayal, because it represents an active choice on the part of the MP.
Author joey66 Posted May 4, 2010 Author Posted May 4, 2010 The point has already been made about the M being a pre-existing condition to the A - in most cases, the OM / OW knows that there's a BS somewhere, but they don't know about any OOPs... usually. But another issue relates to agency. While the MP often presents themselves as being "stuck" in the M, choosing to engage with an OOP is a matter of choice: the MP isn't "stuck" in the A with the OOP, in the same way as they can claim to be "stuck" in the M with the BS. So while the BS is a "fact of life" that the OP has to deal with in a background, structural kind of way, the WS choosing to engage with another OP is an ACT of betrayal, because it represents an active choice on the part of the MP. What exactly does it mean "agency?" In this context.
White Flower Posted May 4, 2010 Posted May 4, 2010 What exactly does it mean "agency?" In this context. It means having personal power over any given situation. Many people seem to lack personal power due to overpowering parents or even spouses causing the (usually) MM to hold off on good/better choices for himself. But OWoman can explain it better;)
herenow Posted May 4, 2010 Posted May 4, 2010 It means having personal power over any given situation. Many people seem to lack personal power due to overpowering parents or even spouses causing the (usually) MM to hold off on good/better choices for himself. But OWoman can explain it better;) So a man who has the personal power to betray his wife lacks the power to make choices for himself. Seems to me the choice to have an affair is all about the MM making a choice for himself. If his parents and or wife are so overbearing that he can't make "good/better choices for himself", how does he have the gonads to have an affair in the first place?
kis Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 Why do OW/OM get so very upset when they find their MM/MW has an OOW/OOM? I read a comment to this effect in another thread earlier today. I think it's a fairly common sentiment. And I know it to be true from my own experience. I posted once before about MW flirting with another man. The guy she flirted with is someone I know and like. He's smart and nice and friendly and just an all around good guy. Yet, for a moment I wanted very much to do harm to his person. And I am the furthest thing from a violent person. It was a jealousy unlike anything I have ever felt before. I do not have the words to describe the intensity. The thing is, she did it intentionally to make me insane (it worked, too) and I KNEW it. I knew she wasn't interested in him and I still went into a rage. I cannot imagine how I would've felt if I thought she really meant it. So why does it not bother me that she goes home to her H? She does a lot more than flirt with him and I can live with it. But the thought of her flirting (or god forbid more than that) with another man makes me furious. I wonder if the thread you read earlier was mine. because i have often had suspicions that my MM (EA) has an OW. Thing is i think she was there before me. But I remember clearly the first time i had this suspicion. I was sooo upset. Cried all weekend. Didnt know how I was going to even talk to him again. The thing that makes it so upsetting is You can never feel as special as you thought you were again. I told him Just how less special i felt. He said that was just crazy. Never admitted that the person I seen him with was an OW. Sooooooooo I still dont know for sure. But insanely jealous.
Author joey66 Posted May 5, 2010 Author Posted May 5, 2010 I wonder if the thread you read earlier was mine. because i have often had suspicions that my MM (EA) has an OW. Thing is i think she was there before me. But I remember clearly the first time i had this suspicion. I was sooo upset. Cried all weekend. Didnt know how I was going to even talk to him again. The thing that makes it so upsetting is You can never feel as special as you thought you were again. I told him Just how less special i felt. He said that was just crazy. Never admitted that the person I seen him with was an OW. Sooooooooo I still dont know for sure. But insanely jealous. kis - Yes, it was your thread. (I know why EA is not a PA) You say she was there first. Does she know about you? The thought of MW having an OOM is bad, but the thought of being the OOM is a hundred times worse! However, it has occurred to me that she might already have an OM. It would go a long way to explaining some of her odd, inconsistent behaviour. INSANELY jealous isn't strong enough. My vocabulary is insufficient to describe my level of jealousy.
NSGurl Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 I'm not convinced it's jealousy. IMO, I think an affair forces compromise on multiple levels. There is resolve with accepting the spouse (but there is compromise being second). There is compromise with time, freedoms, etc. So, while you may not realize it, you are sitting at the edge of what is already accepting the unacceptable. Throw in an OOP, it pushes you over. So, jealousy? Hmm, not so sure that's what is at the bottom of it all.
White Flower Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 So a man who has the personal power to betray his wife lacks the power to make choices for himself. Seems to me the choice to have an affair is all about the MM making a choice for himself. If his parents and or wife are so overbearing that he can't make "good/better choices for himself", how does he have the gonads to have an affair in the first place? All good questions. If I were a counselor I'm sure my answer would serve justice but I'm not. What I do know is that under the veil of secrecy many cheaters allow themselves agency. Out in the open? Not so much. Oftentimes, the SA (or any cheater for that matter) will be the honorable citizen, the cop, the volunteer, the helper, in order to present themselves as a sheep when really they are a wolf. Some won't even be faking this as they need to make up for their bad side, the secret agency they gave themselves. We must remember that, since we are not cheaters, we don't think like they do and their logic does not match our own. Many have a character flaw that we just don't relate to. We should all study psychology.
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