White Flower Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 I think so too, but only within very tight parameters. He sounds like a textbook compartmentalizing serial cheater. I was one as well. It is not unheard of for people like that to have genuine feelings - they just are in the same compartment as sex, and don't extend beyond the compartment so to speak. They can do what they do, close up that compartment, go home and open up the 'home' compartment. They don't consider the idea of leaving the marriage, and will generally only end the affair when it stops being convenient or tries to spill out of its given compartment. They aren't heartless, they are just very compartmentalized and appear heartless when their heart is in another container. I think he has feelings too. He probably just needs to take some time to process them and see what the cost/benefit ratio is. If his love for her is worth the risk of the M he may keep her; which MAY not result in leaving for her, but just keep her as an A partner. He may go in the other direction too, because kids and mortgages may not be worth the risk to THIS MM.
Author michelle2010 Posted May 5, 2010 Author Posted May 5, 2010 First of all... LB is a guy?! LOL! Thanks for telling me. Heather - Great advice. If he comes back, I will definitely not jump in the way I did last time, even though I don't see myself having the self-control to say no to him. I'm in love with him, have been for almost 3 years. I was pregnant by another man, and my feelings for him still didn't change. There's been a lot of things that should have changed how I felt, but they haven't... So I will probably go back, but not right away. This is assuming that he hasn't completely dropped me, of course. And I think I'm like you - the cold NSA is just too strange. I'm used to getting a lot of affection from my husband, I'm used to coming first - and with this MM it is so much the opposite. I feel uncomfortable. But I have no idea how to bring it up to him if we ever start things up again. I did do a fun little exercise, though. In what is typical fashion for me, I drew up an email with bullets specifying exactly what I wanted from the relationship ("lunch dates", for example) and asking if he agreed. : ) I will never send it, of course, but it helped me figure out what I want to be different if we get together again. And of course, it makes me happy to see that you all seem to think that he does have feelings for me... Somehow it makes missing him a little easier. Until he comes back, I'll work on myself and on improving a few things that need work... I just need a new project, which will help me stay away from the thought of him. But I still have the memories... And I've yet to understand the affair bubble, but I'm slowly getting it. I think I compartmentalize too - probably because divorcing my husband has never occurred to me. I can go out, see him, come back, and it's as if nothing happened. I thought it was a strange reaction, since it was my first time, but it's the truth. The guilt only comes when my husband is nice to me. Maybe MM and I have more in common than I thought. Do any of you have any idea why it took him over a year to actually have sex with me?? I mean, he was always the one stopping it before... I was always willing and able. I've never been able to understand that. It is in stark contrast to his serial cheater persona.
Just a stone's throw Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 Perhaps til then, he was having sex with another. He perhaps broke it off with them and was free to then have sex with you? Just a thought. If he's a serial cheater, it's possible. Where did you get that LB was a man?
Author michelle2010 Posted May 5, 2010 Author Posted May 5, 2010 Because Heather mentioned 2 guys... Yeah, I guess that's possible... but yuck! I hate that thought. I'm not jealous of his wife, but the thought of him and another woman is pretty disgusting (I was reading Joey's thread about the oop, and that's exactly how I feel...). Feelings are funny sometimes.
Just a stone's throw Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 Oh, I see that now but LB is a female. For sure. Your MM sounds so much (to a tee) my exMM except for the ages of his kids that I could see him being one in the same. Maybe I was projecting what I think was some of my exMM's motivations (or what allows me to sleep at night). Sorry if that made it confusing for you but it is a possibility.
Heather1 Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 LB is a woman? Didn't catch that at all. Well, there's an example of a W who thinks like a man. I'm not into someone if I don't care about them, I can't really do just a physical thing & not have any other feelings. To me it's not worth the other things that come along w/ it. I don't want you to think I'm totally endorsing this either...it's REALLY HARD!! And every time I go back it just ruins anything w/ my H. The first time we did NC, I really stepped up to the plate & was remorseful & made some plans for my H & our future. We were totally on track & OM threw a wrench by contacting me. Every time it gets harder to re-connect w/ my H & this NC I really haven't even tried to re-connect. So factor in that this really will take a toll on your M. I think you should read My Brown Eyed Girl's posts too so you can get into the mind of someone who kind of had her whole plan blow up. I've never had a Dday. I stopped every time I felt he was getting distant & felt he wanted to stop but was too much of a wimp to end things. I always let him get ahold of me. There's a lot of keeping yourself at bay w/ feelings, etc.. Just wanted to warn you it's not an easy thing for women to do, and you're already having a lot of feelings about him & the situation.
jthorne Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 As I said Michelle, in your current situation, what you have now with MM is the BEST it's EVER going to be. It will not get better, only worse as feelings develop. It will only continue to be a rollercoaster of days of hell for a few moments of happiness. You were obviously sexually attracted to your H at one time- at least once to have a baby with him. Why can't you get that back? May not be quite as exciting as a clandestine affair, but it's a lot safer. You've already said that you can't trust MM, and couldn't foresee a future with him. You're taking an awful big risk for someone with whom there's no future.
califnan Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 .......and what He has had with you Michelle .. and his Wife .. (and any others) - is the Best that He is ever going to have it..
Just a stone's throw Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 I agree that in order for a FWB, NSA A to work you both have to think like a "typical" man and keep your feelings outside the A bubble. I believe it's the only way for it not to get messy and confusing. If you can do it, great. I was able to for awhile (and actually knew it was my goal to think that way) but it's exhausting when you're denying feelings. I found it became impossible for me.
Author michelle2010 Posted May 5, 2010 Author Posted May 5, 2010 I think I'm still on the rollercoaster. I still think about him constantly. Except that now I'm planning what I'm going to do until he comes back... because I want to believe so much that he will. Plus, exactly 9 weeks from now, one of our mutual friends is going to have a birthday, and she always sets up HH for everyone at work and invites me. So I'll probably see him then. I know this is as good as it gets. But I have this evil little voice in my head saying that it could happen that someday he'll feel as strongly about me as I feel about him. And then we could have a real affair, with all that it entails, instead of just NSA sex. I've been trying so hard to focus on other things, but it's not working as well as it should. On the other hand, it's only been two days and it's going to be a while before this heals. I just keep getting this anxious feeling, hoping that time will go by as fast as it can, so that 9 weeks from now will be here soon and maybe he'll be there. It still sucks. I know I have to let go. I think distraction is the name of the game now. Califnan - I think I see your point. I had never considered that before... JaST - I'm coming to the same conclusion... old-fashioned NSA is too much to handle when I'm in love with him already.
jthorne Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 And then we could have a real affair, with all that it entails, instead of just NSA sex.Be careful what you wish for. Real affairs are as much if not more heartache than NSA BECAUSE of all that it entails. I'm not sure if you realize all that a "real affair" entails. *sigh* I guess you will just have to find out for yourself.
MorningCoffee Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 I agree with jthorne's post. When my A began, I always understood any chance she would leave her M was tiny, almost totally unimaginable. My MW and I had been colleagues, then friends, then EA, then PA, and so I went in thinking we would have a fling. Wow, what a surprise as we each came to realize we had fallen deeply in love with each other. Didn't change the fact that she wasn't going anywhere, though, and neither was our R, it just made it a hell of a lot more painful a heartbreak for both of us when we had to end it and go NC. Lesson learned? A MW may make a good friend, but as far a romance? I am sticking to SW.
jthorne Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 I agree with jthorne's post. When my A began, I always understood any chance she would leave her M was tiny, almost totally unimaginable. My MW and I had been colleagues, then friends, then EA, then PA, and so I went in thinking we would have a fling. Wow, what a surprise as we each came to realize we had fallen deeply in love with each other. Didn't change the fact that she wasn't going anywhere, though, and neither was our R, it just made it a hell of a lot more painful a heartbreak for both of us when we had to end it and go NC. Lesson learned? A MW may make a good friend, but as far a romance? I am sticking to SW. Exactly. Having feelings doesn't make it that much easier, it makes it that much harder.
ladydesigner Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 Be careful what you wish for. Real affairs are as much if not more heartache than NSA BECAUSE of all that it entails. I'm not sure if you realize all that a "real affair" entails. *sigh* I guess you will just have to find out for yourself. Michelle listen very carefully to what Jthorne says as many of us have already walked this road. Plus if you do plan on starting a full blown emotionally involved A with him then end game is normally to leave for that person and them for you. Are you willing to break up your family for this man? Or possibly break up another person's family? The flip side of this is usually a D-day followed by the man throwing you under the bus and then you have to deal with utter heartbreak on top of it all. In hindsight no A is worth it but that is my .02
Heather1 Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 If you already have those kind of feelings for him, you are doomed. No expectations & detachment are the name of the game. Do you like being a Mom? It's really lonely being at home w/ a baby. I remember I didn't hardly feel like a woman at all, kind of like a cow. I truly believe I wouldn't have had an A if I wasn't under other stress & then a few crisis's that sealed it. A baby is a HUGE life change, especially for a woman. I'm at an age now where my kids are older, and I just want to be "me" again. Luckily that didn't hit me in their growing years, I was just the unpaid nanny without much time to think about myself.
Author michelle2010 Posted May 6, 2010 Author Posted May 6, 2010 No, I don't think I know all that an affair entails, because I've never been in one. But I do know that part of it would be feelings that I already have. So the only difference would be being with him, which is what I want. I just have this fantasy that we can both lead double lives, be together, keep our families, never get caught and fall madly in love with each other. As I said, it is a fantasy... As for the mom thing - I love being a mom. I'm good at it. I'm also a stay-at-home mom and very comfortable in that role. I love housework and everything that comes with taking care of a child. In fact, I became even more sexual after becoming a mom - it was as if I had grown up. I also only gained 20 lbs. during my pregnancy and lost it in the first 3 weeks after having my son... So my sexual persona is very much intact. The only problem I have with staying home is that it is too easy for me - not challenging enough. I have a VERY tight schedule, I do get help with cleaning and child care on a regular basis (my son is in day care a couple of times a week so that I have time for myself), so that's not what the affair was about. The affair started in my head way before I had a child, as soon as I met MM. I checked out of my marriage then. I remember the feeling very specifically, because I took one look at him, and knew I was in trouble. Then came my pregnancy and everything got complicated. But the one thing I was always sure of was how much I wanted him. I'm actually excited about NC right now. I went out with a friend for Cinco de Mayo last night (the one who works with him), and I'll be baking her a birthday cake and delivering it to the office in 9 weeks... Yes, it was premeditated. He'll be there. No wondering if he'll make it to HH or not. So, even if NC lasts for 9 weeks, I'll see him then. And that makes me happy.
bentnotbroken Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 No, I don't think I know all that an affair entails, because I've never been in one. But I do know that part of it would be feelings that I already have. So the only difference would be being with him, which is what I want. I just have this fantasy that we can both lead double lives, be together, keep our families, never get caught and fall madly in love with each other. As I said, it is a fantasy... As for the mom thing - I love being a mom. I'm good at it. I'm also a stay-at-home mom and very comfortable in that role. I love housework and everything that comes with taking care of a child. In fact, I became even more sexual after becoming a mom - it was as if I had grown up. I also only gained 20 lbs. during my pregnancy and lost it in the first 3 weeks after having my son... So my sexual persona is very much intact. The only problem I have with staying home is that it is too easy for me - not challenging enough. I have a VERY tight schedule, I do get help with cleaning and child care on a regular basis (my son is in day care a couple of times a week so that I have time for myself), so that's not what the affair was about. The affair started in my head way before I had a child, as soon as I met MM. I checked out of my marriage then. I remember the feeling very specifically, because I took one look at him, and knew I was in trouble. Then came my pregnancy and everything got complicated. But the one thing I was always sure of was how much I wanted him. I'm actually excited about NC right now. I went out with a friend for Cinco de Mayo last night (the one who works with him), and I'll be baking her a birthday cake and delivering it to the office in 9 weeks... Yes, it was premeditated. He'll be there. No wondering if he'll make it to HH or not. So, even if NC lasts for 9 weeks, I'll see him then. And that makes me happy. This is one of the saddest post I have read in a while. No personal ownership.
jthorne Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 Does your friend know about your A? Well, all I can say is I'm glad you're sticking to NC. I don't mean to be a downer, but oftentimes, fantasy is 1000% better than reality. And a lot less risky! It's very possible that when you deliver the birthday cake, the attraction to him won't be as strong. Or his may not be to you. You've told him not to contact you, so he may be in a healing process as well. Seeing you could actually be difficult for him, who knows?
Author michelle2010 Posted May 6, 2010 Author Posted May 6, 2010 (edited) None... I'm not there yet. I can't help myself, I just want to see him again. Maybe that will change in 9 weeks, but I doubt it... I'm having a REALLY hard time feeling guilty about this, knock me all you want, but it's the truth... I've waited so long for this man, I have an almost disgusting sense of entitlement to whatever happens between us. I also know this is wrong. But why lie to myself and play the victim?? Not my thing. jthorne - Oh, I highly doubt that. Every time we see each other, it's impossible to stay apart. No, the girl doesn't know about the A. Nobody knows. But I had a "meeting" in his office when we were still together that, according to her, everyone was wondering about. And she started to badmouth him to me and I defended him (probably a trap, which I fell into!). So I assume people have doubts about what sort of relationship we have. I would never, ever tell anyone about it. She's a really good friend, but my devotion to him trumps any kind of support I might need from others. I would love to actually talk to somebody about him, but I never will. I owe him that much. I like the thought of him "healing". Or maybe he'll leave once he knows I'll be there, who knows... But the anticipation is what allows me to sleep at night, right now... Edited May 6, 2010 by michelle2010
jthorne Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 (edited) This is all I can tell you, and I'm sure you're not going to want to hear it. I've never been married, but I have been where you are, in love with a married man. I have felt that shameless sense of entitlement. I justified everything because we were so in love. I lived in fantasy land. For a long long time. It only ended in heartbreak for both of us. I know you want to think that you are different, that he is different, that your affair is different. And maybe it is. But when I came to LS, I was astounded at the similarities in my affair and others. And 99.9% of them have the same outcome: heartbreak. I'm not telling you what to do, that what you're doing is right or wrong. You'll have to get to that on your own. But I stand by what I've already said: what you had when you sent the NC email is the best it's ever going to get. As the emotional involvement increases, so does the agony of being apart. So does the agony of trying to hide your emotions from your friends and loved ones. So does the loneliness. So does the risk to your family, your marriage and your lifestyle. I don't mean to piss on your fantasy, but I do mean to bring a dose of reality. Edited May 6, 2010 by jthorne typo
bentnotbroken Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 Does this story remind anyone of ForbiddenFruit's story?
jthorne Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 Does this story remind anyone of ForbiddenFruit's story?My dear Bent, it reminds me of a lot of stories... MyBrownEyedGirl's, November-Rain's, etc etc etc. The problem is that everyone wants to think that their situation is different from everyone else's, and no way their affair is gonna turn out like everyone else's. What do I know? Maybe her's is the one in a million that won't end badly. Even though I don't agree with it, maybe they can have one of those "Same Time Next Year" affairs that go on for years. (I did say I didn't agree with that, right? My xMM tried to offer this as a last compromise. I wanted to slice his face off. To me, it's as insulting as "we can still be friends, right?" But I wasn't married, and I wouldn't settle. Maybe the OP will be happy to take what she can get and will never get caught.) Except in her situation of both affair partners being married, the odds are very much against a happy ending. I've done my best to give fair warning, but I fear she will have to find out for herself.
joey66 Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 My dear Bent, it reminds me of a lot of stories... MyBrownEyedGirl's, November-Rain's, etc etc etc. The problem is that everyone wants to think that their situation is different from everyone else's, and no way their affair is gonna turn out like everyone else's. What do I know? Maybe her's is the one in a million that won't end badly. Even though I don't agree with it, maybe they can have one of those "Same Time Next Year" affairs that go on for years. (I did say I didn't agree with that, right? My xMM tried to offer this as a last compromise. I wanted to slice his face off. To me, it's as insulting as "we can still be friends, right?" But I wasn't married, and I wouldn't settle. Maybe the OP will be happy to take what she can get and will never get caught.) Except in her situation of both affair partners being married, the odds are very much against a happy ending. I've done my best to give fair warning, but I fear she will have to find out for herself. Every affair is unique, and every affair is exactly like every other affair. (Wish I could take credit for that, but I read it somewhere. Don't remember where.)
Author michelle2010 Posted May 6, 2010 Author Posted May 6, 2010 I understand the warnings about a full-blown affair; truly, I do. I understand especially the part about not feeling whole unless you are with that person. My point is that I already feel that way now. I was warned about this (another forum, weeks ago). If I had sex with him, and it was good, I'd never feel whole again, and my marriage would never be the same. That's exactly what has happened. I was also warned that he might back out if his feelings became too strong. (It seems to be fairly obvious to everyone who knows the whole story that he was emotionally involved, even though I still have a problem believing that. Maybe it's because I always GO with my feelings, I have a hard time understanding people who just control them like that, and prefer to suffer instead of living them.) So having the affair, in my mind, cannot possibly make my situation worse. I already miss him, want him, etc. The only difference is that I'd have him (and might get caught, I know...). But this is all kind of pointless right now, I don't even know if he still thinks about me. I did something bad, though. I tested him. It's very immature, but I put up a "test" profile on FB with a picture of a really attractive - but normal enough - girl, and tried to friend him with a note that we had met at a work thing. I know for a fact that in the past, he had friended girls like that. This time, nothing. Not even a reply to ask who exactly was she?? We used to be FB friends (not anymore, I removed him when the affair started), so I know how it used to be. I tried to friend him twice. Nothing. This tells me that he's trying to be faithful, or he, in the past, definitely would have accepted it. So maybe it is true that he feels guilty. And that makes me feel so good. Because guilt, as everyone has pointed out, comes and goes... And I don't have illusions that my affair would be different. It would "end" in heartbreak. A relationship outside of the sneaking around and great sex probably couldn't sustain itself. And that's probably without counting the trust issues. I do have a very good successful affair story. My in-laws were the product of an affair and have been married for 25 years, and happy... My husband was not happy as a little boy, when their parents divorced, but their relationship did turn into a successful marriage. I do know that their case is the exception and not the rule. No fantasies about a happy ending here. I wouldn't want an ending at all.
secretlady76 Posted May 6, 2010 Posted May 6, 2010 I understand the warnings about a full-blown affair; truly, I do. I understand especially the part about not feeling whole unless you are with that person. My point is that I already feel that way now. I was warned about this (another forum, weeks ago). If I had sex with him, and it was good, I'd never feel whole again, and my marriage would never be the same. That's exactly what has happened. I was also warned that he might back out if his feelings became too strong. (It seems to be fairly obvious to everyone who knows the whole story that he was emotionally involved, even though I still have a problem believing that. Maybe it's because I always GO with my feelings, I have a hard time understanding people who just control them like that, and prefer to suffer instead of living them.) So having the affair, in my mind, cannot possibly make my situation worse. I already miss him, want him, etc. The only difference is that I'd have him (and might get caught, I know...). But this is all kind of pointless right now, I don't even know if he still thinks about me. I did something bad, though. I tested him. It's very immature, but I put up a "test" profile on FB with a picture of a really attractive - but normal enough - girl, and tried to friend him with a note that we had met at a work thing. I know for a fact that in the past, he had friended girls like that. This time, nothing. Not even a reply to ask who exactly was she?? We used to be FB friends (not anymore, I removed him when the affair started), so I know how it used to be. I tried to friend him twice. Nothing. This tells me that he's trying to be faithful, or he, in the past, definitely would have accepted it. So maybe it is true that he feels guilty. And that makes me feel so good. Because guilt, as everyone has pointed out, comes and goes... And I don't have illusions that my affair would be different. It would "end" in heartbreak. A relationship outside of the sneaking around and great sex probably couldn't sustain itself. And that's probably without counting the trust issues. I do have a very good successful affair story. My in-laws were the product of an affair and have been married for 25 years, and happy... My husband was not happy as a little boy, when their parents divorced, but their relationship did turn into a successful marriage. I do know that their case is the exception and not the rule. No fantasies about a happy ending here. I wouldn't want an ending at all. Facebook is a blessing and a curse. Don't mess with it because it will mess with you and your head. I almost wish I had never got involved with FB, it's done more harm than good!!!! Some people use it like some type of playground mental abuse game but an adult version!!!
Recommended Posts