Chris68 Posted May 1, 2010 Posted May 1, 2010 My wife and I had not been having sex an a regular basis and had been trying multiple things together to try and increase her disire. She started an EA on line that lead to photo exchange and camming (toys mutual masterbation). She did not try to hide it but she also knows I do not go on her computer. When things started to change I got worried and broke down and looked at her computer and found out. At first I tried to be cool with it OM in another country and chances of meeting up were nill. As time went on (a few day) I realized I coould not be cool with it and we talked /fought about it. She wanted to stay in contact with him because they "work" an a website together. After much talking and fighting it came down to the could work together but all contact must be through a third party. He decieded he could not work that way and quit the site so there has been NC that I know of after that point. She has said mulitple time that she did it for us /me (and has blamed me for pushing her to that point) and sees nothing wrong with it except that it hurt people (me and OM). She has stated that she thought it would be ok because of other things we had looked into. And does not feel lik it was an affair or cheating of any type. We have been working on getting over this and trying to get back to normal. But I am having a problem with her not accepting this for what it was, the only remose she has shown what that she hurt people she cared about, but she has said because it was not big deal to her she has put it behind her and is ready to move on. In her defense she does appear to be moving on and has put it behind her. The sticking point at this time is me. I do not really have anyone I can talk to about this hence the reason I am here. So to get to the real question should I accept her remose about hurting people, let go that she does not see it as an affair (I do not think she will change mind) and try to move on or will her thinking that way be a stopping point for reconciliation? Is this now my issue to deal with on my own as far as accepting that she thinks diffrently or should see be made (not sure how) to see and addmit that is was an affair (some thing she will not do at this time says she can not say something that is not true)? I have tried to get her to understand this, I have sent her to multiple website that cover the subject and are supposed to be helpful for the person that had the affair to see it for what it was but she basicly refuses to read them saying it was not an affair. Will time help? Sorry for the rambling but my thought are not the most cohorent at this time. Any and all coments welcome, I tend to be fairly logical and try to gather as musch information as possible before making decision.
Bryanp Posted May 1, 2010 Posted May 1, 2010 It was clearly an emotional affair. She was engaging in online mutual masturbation. If the roles were reversed would she be acceptable to you engaging in this type of behavior with another woman? The real problem is that she does not see this as wrong. She only feels bad because you felt hurt. She has a broken moral compass. I would be extremely worried that she would engage in a real affair and she would decide to hide it from you. Her belief is that it is not wrong if you do not know it and thus you cannot be hurt. She has not shown true remorse or understand in what she has engaged in. I would not be surprised down the road that she will engage in a hidden affair based on her mindset. I would think that this should worry you very much.
Fight4Me Posted May 1, 2010 Posted May 1, 2010 You can't be in true reconciliation until she starts to own her own ****, and if you try to move on from this (which I don't believe you'll be able to fully), she will absolutely do it again. I recommend the books Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass and Boundaries in Marriage. If she isn't willing to read them, at least you'll get a lot out of them and provide direction for where to go from here. I'm really sorry you're in this situation. Nobody deserves this kind of disrespect from their spouse.
jwi71 Posted May 1, 2010 Posted May 1, 2010 Before I comment...I'm a bit confused here. What does she mean by "didn't try to hide it"? Because you also imply you didn't know (looked on her PC).... What does "other things we looked at" mean?
Author Chris68 Posted May 1, 2010 Author Posted May 1, 2010 Before I comment...I'm a bit confused here. What does she mean by "didn't try to hide it"? Because you also imply you didn't know (looked on her PC).... What does "other things we looked at" mean? jwi71, By did not try to hide it, she claims that because I have full access to her computer I could have looked at anytime (I do not even go into her purse to get the car keys) she also said that she e mentioned letting someone see her photos to get a opion on them and her (should have seen it coming at that point as she was suddenly more into having photos done). Looking at other things we had bought books toys (which she used quite well on her own even before this) she is into creative writing and took that a step furture with other people (started with other females, says there is not anything really geared toward women) and we has simi discused both of us going on the site Red Light District and hooking up with each other to act out our fantisies in a safe environment. I have alway tried to be opena and understanding and letting her have her own life and not controlling it let her have her own friends ect..
Fight4Me Posted May 1, 2010 Posted May 1, 2010 jwi71, By did not try to hide it, she claims that because I have full access to her computer I could have looked at anytime (I do not even go into her purse to get the car keys) she also said that she e mentioned letting someone see her photos to get a opion on them and her (should have seen it coming at that point as she was suddenly more into having photos done). She is lying by omission. IMHO, it is the worst kind because it makes you feel like you're going crazy. My WS used this tactic during the A and shortly after DDay and it was extremely aggravating because he'd be completely truthful, only as long as I asked the right questions. It took the help of a third party (counselor) to back me up on it, among other things, for him to see how deceptive he was being. Once he crossed the line into territory he never believed himself capable of going, he just kept on truckin'. Your WW is using these types of lies to shield herself from responsibility, and is putting it squarely on you instead... "It's not my fault you didn't bother verifying my commitment to our wedding vows." Looking at other things we had bought books toys (which she used quite well on her own even before this) she is into creative writing and took that a step furture with other people (started with other females, says there is not anything really geared toward women) and we has simi discused both of us going on the site Red Light District and hooking up with each other to act out our fantisies in a safe environment. I have alway tried to be opena and understanding and letting her have her own life and not controlling it let her have her own friends ect..The whole idea of acting out fantasies together is to spice up your marital sex life. The key word here is "together." She knows darn well that what you two had discussed did not include her going off and shagging someone else online without your knowledge. And given what you described went on between her and the OM, I would call it both an EA and a PA. It was physical in every way except touching, but she would no doubt dismiss that too, since many people justify cyber sex by denying that it is truly cheating. It's important that married individuals be afforded the freedom to have other friends and to not be entirely dependent on their spouses for everything, but your WW has clearly taken advantage of you in this regard. Do not allow her to continue to blame shift, gaslight you, or sweep this under the rug and expect you to shut up and move on. You will be setting a dangerous precedent if you do.
Author Chris68 Posted May 1, 2010 Author Posted May 1, 2010 We just got done talking again she says she can not admit to something that she did not do (still does not admit it was an affair). I have asked her to create a log on here and either add her side of the story to this thread or creat her own. Her answer I will think about it, I pointed out that I have given her multiple resoureces and she said yest but they are all about something she did not do. I will wait for awhile and see if she does follow through and comes on here or not I also will see if I can pick up one of the books suggested may be good for me if nothing else. I will also wait for more opinions here. At this point we are in limbo on every thing. One last thing I am not sure when it trully started or crossed the line but I found out mid April so all this is fairly new.
Bryanp Posted May 1, 2010 Posted May 1, 2010 I think you are wasting your times. Your wife does not believe she did anything wrong and was not engaged in an affair even thought she engaged on numerous occasions mutual masturbation online with the OM. What is wrong with this picture? If she does not see this as cheating then you are a fool to remain in your marriage and I think you know this.
Passion4Life Posted May 1, 2010 Posted May 1, 2010 We just got done talking again she says she can not admit to something that she did not do (still does not admit it was an affair). I have asked her to create a log on here and either add her side of the story to this thread or creat her own. Her answer I will think about it, I pointed out that I have given her multiple resoureces and she said yest but they are all about something she did not do. I will wait for awhile and see if she does follow through and comes on here or not I also will see if I can pick up one of the books suggested may be good for me if nothing else. I will also wait for more opinions here. At this point we are in limbo on every thing. One last thing I am not sure when it trully started or crossed the line but I found out mid April so all this is fairly new. well chris68 , I think you need to ask her that if she doesn't see what she was doing as affair or cheating you have a fear that she will do it again whenever she wants & you will not have any clue . I can tell these kind of affairs doesn't take time to change into full-blown affair . So if you are not ok with your wife having cyber sex with someone else she too will have to see this as cheating .
Iconoclast Posted May 2, 2010 Posted May 2, 2010 She has said mulitple time that she did it for us /me (and has blamed me for pushing her to that point) and sees nothing wrong with it except that it hurt people (me and OM). She did it for you? I'd ask her, how exchanging photos and watching each other masturbate, without telling you about it, is for you? Nonsense, she owns it, she knows it, and she's lying. Because it is wrong, and nearly everyone knows it. And, if she did it for you, then how has it improved your sex life, if that was the goal?
Author Chris68 Posted May 2, 2010 Author Posted May 2, 2010 Our sex life did improve some for a short time while she was writing with him and doing the camming she was also wanting to try out other things and positions ect.. (until I found out and had a problem with it) and thenof course it dropped off. I have had good day and bad days like a roller coaster at time going through all the emotions. I picked up the book Not "Just Friends" and am getting a lot of good out of it, understanding my own emotions and that I am not alone in how I feel and my reaction and also give me insite into her thinking and the diffrent stages she is at. She has agreed to read it while I am at work and I will read it when home. I hope that after she has read it she will have the light bulb go on if that is the case and she does not just give me lipservice then we can really start to move forward, I do not want to end a 14 year marriage with kids over a one time thing and would really like for use to be able to work things out. If she can not then I am not sure what I will do at this time. I do believe her when she says it will not happen again that she know not to cross that line. The replies I have seen so far I am guessing are from BS I would like to see some from WS if any are out there reading this, your perspective would also be greatly appriciated.
Passion4Life Posted May 2, 2010 Posted May 2, 2010 Our sex life did improve some for a short time while she was writing with him and doing the camming she was also wanting to try out other things and positions ect.. (until I found out and had a problem with it) and thenof course it dropped off. I have had good day and bad days like a roller coaster at time going through all the emotions. I picked up the book Not "Just Friends" and am getting a lot of good out of it, understanding my own emotions and that I am not alone in how I feel and my reaction and also give me insite into her thinking and the diffrent stages she is at. She has agreed to read it while I am at work and I will read it when home. I hope that after she has read it she will have the light bulb go on if that is the case and she does not just give me lipservice then we can really start to move forward, I do not want to end a 14 year marriage with kids over a one time thing and would really like for use to be able to work things out. If she can not then I am not sure what I will do at this time. I do believe her when she says it will not happen again that she know not to cross that line. The replies I have seen so far I am guessing are from BS I would like to see some from WS if any are out there reading this, your perspective would also be greatly appriciated. well I would suggest you to ask this question in The Other man/woman forum to get some insights from ws .
whichwayisup Posted May 2, 2010 Posted May 2, 2010 And does not feel lik it was an affair or cheating of any type. Well, if she walked in on you, jerking off to a webcam, with another woman playing with herself at the sametime, talking sexy talk - Your wife WOULD see this as cheating. As long as she feels she didn't cheat or do anything wrong, then your marriage is going to take a long time to heal, and for you two to reconnect again. She's dimissing YOUR feelings, basically by denying what she did was wrong IS a slap to you and the marriage. A committed wife doesn't do what she did. I hope she gets help. This isn't about you, it's about what's missing inside of her, and why she allowed this to happen. Our sex life did improve some for a short time while she was writing with him and doing the camming she was also wanting to try out other things and positions ect.. (until I found out and had a problem with it) Rightfully so! You should have had a problem with that. She was using that sexual energy and using you for release. Yuck. Again, ask her how she would feel if the situation were reversed?
Fight4Me Posted May 2, 2010 Posted May 2, 2010 I'm glad you picked up that book. It's also very good for WSs to help them identify where their thinking started to go sideways, but it doesn't beat them up for it. Keep us posted.
Author Chris68 Posted May 3, 2010 Author Posted May 3, 2010 Well I read the book (some of it multiple times) I have gained a lot of insite on things. She is startting to read it now also (lot of teeth grinding) now it is the wait game to she what she gets out of it. After she gets done reading we will have a sit down talk again.
jnj express Posted May 4, 2010 Posted May 4, 2010 Hey Chris---she had an A.---Plain and simple. You only need to ask her one question.----Was this guy there at your wedding, did he take vows with the 2 of you.-----Mge is what mge is, and it ain't a 3some. It also does not include other men looking at her privates. She did things with another man via the camera, it was cyber sex, it was/is an A. She can spin and deny all she wants, MARRIED WOMEN DO NOT DO WHAT SHE HAS DONE---Also from what you have stated she is NOT showing remorse----she is just unhappy you are calling her out on what she has done, and she is pacifying you. This does not get swept under the rug---It is serious treat it seriously, or it will happen again. Set up some boundaries, with consequences----included therein----NC with this guy---sent by letter or e-mail only, and no more cybercam sex. You need to treat this seriously cuz it is SERIOUS!!!!!!
seibert253 Posted May 4, 2010 Posted May 4, 2010 She had an A. Plan and simple. Until she realizes this, and owns up to it, your marriage with NEVER truely heal. Period. She will continue to live day by day, thinking it was ok to do what she did, damn the pain inflicted to you. You will constantly live your life checking up/snooping on her, hoping that one day she'll realize what she did. Can you live with that? I wouldn't. She will not change her outlook until someone helps her realize what she did. An independant third party, such as a counselor, can help tremendously. You, your wife, and your marriage need help. Trust me, the two of you will not just "figure it out and work through it" on your own. You need help. Otherwise you are wasting your time my friend. Good Luck.
Author Chris68 Posted May 4, 2010 Author Posted May 4, 2010 She has read the book and is currently going through "soul searching" and self confrontation. She is making strides toward admitting to herself that it was an EA / Cyber affair. We are talking with people about this and she is startting to be more open and honest about everything, at first she would just tell it from her point of view and leave out information she is now starting to include everything so she can get better feed back. I have found out that she was able to compartmentalize it as though it was a role she was playing (one of the reason she has had a hard time admiting) Also because of fearing how she will feel how others will view her when she does it admit it to herself (which she need to do before she can admit to anyone else). We are currently making effort and I hope to continue. Once she has admitted everything I expect a shower of tears and I will be there for her because she will need to see that from me and then we can move forward with the mending.
Fight4Me Posted May 4, 2010 Posted May 4, 2010 She has read the book and is currently going through "soul searching" and self confrontation. She is making strides toward admitting to herself that it was an EA / Cyber affair. We are talking with people about this and she is startting to be more open and honest about everything, at first she would just tell it from her point of view and leave out information she is now starting to include everything so she can get better feed back. I have found out that she was able to compartmentalize it as though it was a role she was playing (one of the reason she has had a hard time admiting) Also because of fearing how she will feel how others will view her when she does it admit it to herself (which she need to do before she can admit to anyone else). We are currently making effort and I hope to continue. Once she has admitted everything I expect a shower of tears and I will be there for her because she will need to see that from me and then we can move forward with the mending. It sounds like things are moving in a positive direction. I can understand why someone might have a difficult time admitting (even to themselves) that they've taken part in an affair. I mean, who wants that on their permanent marital record? The good news is that if one is truly remorseful, they can find healing and restoration through counseling. Whatever you do, DON'T make the mistake of thinking you both can read a few books, cry openly, and do your own healing. This is one of those times when you need professional intervention (even if it's your Pastor) for long term counseling, preferably both marital and individual. Please keep us posted. You're in for a rough ride, regardless of what direction your WW and your marriage takes. They don't call it a roller coaster for nothing.
Author Chris68 Posted May 5, 2010 Author Posted May 5, 2010 Well after many talks, and other her trying to hide contact for work reasons (keyloggers work wonders) She was keeping it strickly on a work level OM did not like that and blew up like a 2 yr old having a tantrum then started "internet Stalking" her signing up on her web sites under multiple diffrent logins and e-mail she came to the realiaztion the NC was for a good reason. She has now admited to herself me and counsolers that it was an affair, she has fully opened her computer, phone and all means of communications to me, She has blocked him on her e-mail websites and im's. We are now being open and honest and working toward fixing what was broken before this all happened and fixing what got borke because of this. I expect to have set back off and on over time but I think we are now on the right track. I will check back here often and leave updates as they happen. I also have to recommend the book Not "Just Friend" to anyone going through this it was a great help and eye-opener for me and has allowed to to see how things are progressing and be ready when things don't go so well.
seibert253 Posted May 5, 2010 Posted May 5, 2010 Well after many talks, and other her trying to hide contact for work reasons (keyloggers work wonders) She was keeping it strickly on a work level OM did not like that and blew up like a 2 yr old having a tantrum then started "internet Stalking" her signing up on her web sites under multiple diffrent logins and e-mail she came to the realiaztion the NC was for a good reason. She has now admited to herself me and counsolers that it was an affair, she has fully opened her computer, phone and all means of communications to me, She has blocked him on her e-mail websites and im's. We are now being open and honest and working toward fixing what was broken before this all happened and fixing what got borke because of this. I expect to have set back off and on over time but I think we are now on the right track. I will check back here often and leave updates as they happen. I also have to recommend the book Not "Just Friend" to anyone going through this it was a great help and eye-opener for me and has allowed to to see how things are progressing and be ready when things don't go so well. That's great Chris. It sure is nice when they finally realize and admit what they did. Took mine a couple of weeks. Don't get relaxed, stay vigilant and keep checking on what she does. She hasn't earned your trust yet, but hopefully it will come.
Author Chris68 Posted May 26, 2010 Author Posted May 26, 2010 Well it has been a month since she got caught. It appears to me her admiting it was an affair is just lip service to get me to shut up about it. Whenever I try to talk with her about it (no yelling just simple discusion) she get very defensive and does not want to talk about ask why I keep thowing it in her face and rubbing it in. Claims she is trying but it is very intermitant and extreamly inconsistant. I took two days off work last week (thursday and Friday) to spend time with her, she knew well in adavnce but still insisted on being on her computer the whole first day, the second I almost had to force her to get away from the computer even after I blew up at her for the first day then as soon as we got back to the house she was back on the computer then she spent the rest of the weekend on it. I have told her how at this point I do not like to have to compete with all her computer friends ect.. and that she need to start taking breaks from it (kinda what got her in trouble in the first place). I have hit the point that tonight I plan on moving her stuff and her computer into the spare bedroom and tell her that if she would rather spend time with it and her online friends then have at it as I am done trying to compete. I have actually looked at the laws here and stand a fair chance to get the kids which is a good thing as my 12 year old daughter is starting to show some of the same signs as her mother (moral compass off thinks only of herself and not others, does things without thinking it through or showing any real remose afterward except that she got caught) I hope if a D does go and I get custody then I may have time to nip it in the bud before it gets to bad. I would hate for her to growup and do the same thing her mother has done to me to someone and maybe seeing her mom have to suffer the consequences may help that. Well I am rambling now but feel better getting it off my chest. all comments suggetsion ect.. are taken into consideration
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