Separated and Scared

[pillowtalk]

I am 42, and separated from my husband 4 weeks ago. We've been together 20 years (the last 10 of it married). I initiated the separation because I haven't been sexually attracted to my husband for a long time, and I haven't been able to get past how I can stay married to someone I'm not attracted to. In other words, staying in the marriage seemed equivalent to giving up on romance and passion and a sex life. Our relationship feels like brother/sister or good friends. I do love him, it just feels platonic.

 

My husband is a great guy. Generous, kind, devoted, faithful, supportive and, yes, even good looking. My issues stem from growing apart over the years, and what is an unbalanced relationship. My career has taken off, and his has taken a nose dive. My income is, literally, about 15x greater than his. I'm covering the mortgage, and saving for retirement for both of us. I also have issues with what I perceive as immature behavior (I won't get into the details). He works out of our house, so he is also home all the time. He doesn't go out with friends. I just feel like he's so dependent on me, and like nobody is taking care of me. I have lost respect for him.

 

While I know it's irrational, I am TERRIFIED of being single at 42. I do enjoy hanging out with my girlfriends, but the idea of dating is really freaking me out. To add to my anxiety, a coworker who I had a crush on recently asked me out, then stood me up (the rejection was devastating to me). Karma, I'm sure, as my husband is devastated by my rejection of him.

 

I'm not sure what to do at this point. I'm not ready to get back together, but divorce right now seems so sudden for our 20-year relationship. I don't feel very hopeful that we can rekindle or rebuild things, and I wish that would change. Should I stick out the separation in the hopes that I will have an epiphany that will save my marriage?

 

Thanks in advance for your comments/ideas...

[carhill]

I heard essentially this same story from my bmf's daughter a couple months ago, except 22 years married and two kids. I told her to get her ass and his to counseling and talk to *each other* instead of me.

 

She could not give me a concrete reason why she's afraid of being alone. How about you? What do you fear? If H is essentially useless, why do you fear being rid of him?

 

I can tell you, as an example, my stbx had no trouble getting some other boots parked at her door after we separated, so I doubt you will either. She's older, 'heftier', and a lot meaner than I imagine you are. So, no worries. You won't be alone for long. I'd opine about a week, tops. No quality guarantees, but don't let fear of alone stop you. Find a more meaningful reason to stay.

 

Get the counseling. It will help, IMO. It saved my sanity. Good luck and welcome to LS

[BB07]

Carhills suggestions are great. If I were you.....I'd be very cautious about dating so fresh out of a separation. You need to make absolutely sure that you are finished with your marriage before inviting someone else into your life. You need time to heal and get used to being alone before putting yourself out there. To get involved with someone else right now would be a mistake for you and them.

[pillowtalk]

She could not give me a concrete reason why she's afraid of being alone. How about you? What do you fear? If H is essentially useless, why do you fear being rid of him?

 

Truth be told, I'm one of those women who has hardly been without a man for very long at any point of my life. When I was younger, that was definitely fueled by insecurity. I never cheated on my boyfriends, but would usually have the next guy squarely in my sights before splitting up with the last.

 

I am much more independent and secure about myself, now, but some of those old irrational thoughts still linger. I have girlfriends who are attractive, intelligent, fun, interesting people (not to mention, 5-10 years younger than me) who are unhappy that (for years) they just can't seem to find a decent guy. So, I jump to the conclusion the same thing will happen to me.

 

So, I guess my fears are 1) I may find other men to date, but I will never find one to fall in love with and 2) I can't truly be happy without a man by my side, and 3) without a man society will judge me to be abnormal, defective, or not whole.

 

I really do know these fears are irrational, but I'll never be able to prove it to myself unless I'm single for period of time. This will take some real courage on my part.

 

I do appreciate you asking the question and getting to think about all this.

[carhill]

So, I guess my fears are 1) I may find other men to date, but I will never find one to fall in love with and 2) I can't truly be happy without a man by my side, and 3) without a man society will judge me to be abnormal, defective, or not whole.

 

OK, balance that against the dynamic of remaining with H and see how the math goes.

 

I'm on the other side, divorce almost being final, and I can tell you with assurance that all my fears were/are squarely within my own psyche and essentially groundless/baseless. That's what a year of 'alone' does. Hope you find your path

[pillowtalk]

Carhills suggestions are great. If I were you.....I'd be very cautious about dating so fresh out of a separation. You need to make absolutely sure that you are finished with your marriage before inviting someone else into your life. You need time to heal and get used to being alone before putting yourself out there. To get involved with someone else right now would be a mistake for you and them.

 

I agree 100% with everything you say. I know I'm in no state to be dating anyone right now. It would be certain disaster. As much as I like him, it's a good thing this guy at work called off our date - things couldn't have ended well.

[PWSX3]

I would also agree with counseling. I'm sure your H doesn't even know you feel this way about him. He is probably thinking; life is good, nothing wrong with our marriage except for the little fights once in a while.

 

I wouldn't think you would want to divorce him, then get second thoughts on what if we would have done counseling.

 

My wife divorced me after 28 years of marriage, I started dating someone again after 7 months & it was to soon. I did a lot of work on myself but it still was hard. Now me & the G/F broke up & the pain from that is even worse.

 

It's been a year since the divorce & just the other day I got an email from the former w saying; she misses being married, she misses how our marriage was when our son was younger, & she misses me.....Not saying everyone has second thoughts, but there is always that chance.

 

I would suggest you figure out why you have those feelings, I'm sure if you found someone else those feelings would come around soon in that relationship as well.

 

Try to do everything you can to make your marriage work, then if you still feel the need to throw in the towel you can say; I tried everything

[pillowtalk]

I would also agree with counseling. I'm sure your H doesn't even know you feel this way about him. He is probably thinking; life is good, nothing wrong with our marriage except for the little fights once in a while.

 

Well, he was definitely in cruise-control mode, but when I brought all this up he agreed right away that we have been unhappy and he pretty much acknowledged the problems. Part our our trouble communicating is that we rarely fight. When we do, things are rarely resolved. We're proficient at simply sweeping our problems under the rug.

 

Try to do everything you can to make your marriage work, then if you still feel the need to throw in the towel you can say; I tried everything

 

Sound advice. After 20 years together, it's important to know that I tried my best to keep it together. We tried counseling right before we separated, but I don't think the counselor was right for us. Maybe we need to try again...

[Gunny376]

There's several things that are going on here in the total dynamics of your relationship.

 

The first being that both of you have neglected to do the necessary maintenance to keep your marriage alive and vibrant. And that's something that you have to do almost on a daily basis. It doesn't have to be anything grandiose ~ little things mean a lot and go a long way.

 

The other is that you've both have been pursuing your own personal interest, and not showing interest in the each others interests.

 

Both of you need to pursue individual counseling first, and get well within that before even starting marriage counseling. Why? Because neither of you are the same persons that you were twenty years ago. Both of you have grown, learned, experienced many different things over the course of the last twenty years.

 

And so now you both need to figure out who you are now, who you want to become and how you want to live your life for the next forty to fifty years. You both need to figure out what to put in? What to take out?

 

The time to divorce is when you both just feel apathy. Your not mad, angry, ~ you just don't give a damn.

 

If you do divorce? The first thing you personally need to do is learn how to be single and live alone ~ and be completely at ease and happy with it.

Right now as you've described yourself? You don't feel complete unless your in a relationship and/or have a man in your life.

 

And its obvious to me that you've a certain amount of resent toward the DH in that you earn 15X more than he does, that your carrying the bulk of the financial load, your career is soaring while his nose diving or meandering along at best?

 

Despite the great strides that women have made over the last forty to fifty years? There's still that societal and cultural myth ~ fallacy ~ lie that its the man that should be the main provider, protector etc. And when those roles are reversed? There's that resentment.

 

Your problem isn't in that you can't find another man? Your problem is going to be in finding a man that is your career/educational/intellectual equivalent? At age 42 most of those men are already married and entangled in family and financial obligations & responsibilities.

 

Oh you will not have a problem finding another man ~ even one that's ten or more years younger than you. But you will soon become tired and bored with them.

 

So the first thing you need to do is get some IC and figure out what PT (Pillowtalk) wants and needs out of life at this particular time in life, while the DH does the same. And then see if those are mutual goals and objectives.

 

Can passion and attraction be re-kindled? You bet it can, but its going to take some learning, growing, discovering, and re-evaluating.

 

Case in point.

 

I've got a good friend of mine, HS educated, started out as a laborer at the plant I work at. Over the course of time, he's moved up to foreman.

 

A couple of years ago, he was up at the state capital, pumping gas. A gal pulled up and they got to talking and doing a little flirting.

 

Now my boy goes to the gym religiously. Not because he's trying to be a body builder ~ but as a matter of living a healthy lifestyle. He owns his own home, owns a truck for doing chores with, a Honda Civic for going back and forth to work on, and an Escalade for when he wants to go out in style.

 

Anyway she gave him her business card. He played it off, until one day he was cleaning his car and found her business card.

 

He gave her a call. Turns out she's an attorney with her own practice, put herself through law school, owns several rental properties, and is a Lieutenant Colonel in the National Guard up for full bird Colonel (one step below one star general) and she's in one of the top three contenders for the job.

 

She told me that she knows of plenty of women attorney's in the state capital and Birmingham that turn their noses up at good men, just because they don't work a white collar job, carry a brief case and earn more than 100K a year (BTW? That's only 2% of the total population) And she told him them that they eat alone, live alone, and are lonely.

 

The divorce rate for first time marriages is somewhere between 44 to 50%

 

Second time marriages? 62%

 

Third time marriages? 72%

 

Your best shot at true love and happiness is with the first man that you married 20 years ago. Enroll his butt in a gym and make him go five times a week for no less than an hour!

 

Take his @zz shopping and get him some new clothes that make you attracted to him.

 

Tell him to get out of the house and to get some new hobbies, and make some new friends, and to give you some space.

 

Tell him to take an interest in you and what your interested in! Like its going to kill him to watch an hour of Home and Garden Network, or a movie on Lifetime.

 

Buy him a copy of "Light Her Fire" and then buy yourself a copy of "Light His Fire!"

Read the "Five Languages of Love!" Find out what your love language is and what his love language is!

 

Read "Divorcebusting"

 

The truth be told? I lost my wife, my family, my children, everything because to be successful in the Marine Corps? To make it sucked the very mental. emotional, physical, spiritiual being out of me?

 

Don't make the mistake I did!

 

Work to live!

 

Not work to live!

[hopesndreams]

While I know it's irrational, I am TERRIFIED of being single at 42. I do enjoy hanging out with my girlfriends, but the idea of dating is really freaking me out. To add to my anxiety, a coworker who I had a crush on recently asked me out, then stood me up (the rejection was devastating to me). Karma, I'm sure, as my husband is devastated by my rejection of him.

 

How in the world can you be devastated by a crush? I think there is more to this than you're saying.

 

Your H has every right to be devastated. A woman, he loved and trusted for 20 years, rejects him. But, in time, he will be in a much better place emotionally and mentally than you will ever be.

 

You think he's needy? Reread your post. You come across as a selfish, needy madam. Good luck in finding your new man, or rather, men, because you are the type that will never be satisfied.

[PWSX3]

It might be a good idea to check out another counselor. I thought me & my former wife were going to a good one, but then after our separation/divorce I started to see someone from my church I go to now & it is like night & day.

[PWSX3]

Well, he was definitely in cruise-control mode, but when I brought all this up he agreed right away that we have been unhappy and he pretty much acknowledged the problems. Part our our trouble communicating is that we rarely fight. When we do, things are rarely resolved. We're proficient at simply sweeping our problems under the rug.

 

This is something I'm learning in my classes I'm taking, I wouldn't call it fighting but if you don't have disagreements then that means someone isn't getting to share there opinions.

 

I also understand the communication, I never had that with my former wife & wished we could have.

 

Pushing stuff under the rug is not good. doesn't solve anything & it builds up hatred & all that stuff inside of a person.

 

Like someone told me, you take your car in for routine maintenance & you go to the doctor & dentist for routine check ups so why don't people feel they need to do that with there marriage??????

 

Like Gunny has said many of times; we have NO clue of what we are getting into when we get married, you have two people with two different ideas, & you try & make it one...

 

Just speaking from my own personal adventure I would suggest you try everything possible to make it work. I know everyone's situations are different but I still believe it's easier to workout your first relationship then to try & start over with another one.

[pillowtalk]

The first being that both of you have neglected to do the necessary maintenance to keep your marriage alive and vibrant. And that's something that you have to do almost on a daily basis. It doesn't have to be anything grandiose ~ little things mean a lot and go a long way.

 

Very true. We have both talked about how we have neglected to do this. I think we started out (in our 20s) without the skills or knowledge to carry this out, and things deteriorated very slowly over the years.

 

The other is that you've both have been pursuing your own personal interest, and not showing interest in the each others interests.

 

True, although we do have a lot of common interests we have spent time on together over the years (music, travel, nature).

 

Both of you need to pursue individual counseling first, and get well within that before even starting marriage counseling. Why? Because neither of you are the same persons that you were twenty years ago. Both of you have grown, learned, experienced many different things over the course of the last twenty years.

 

Not a bad strategy, and we're actually both in IC right now.

 

The time to divorce is when you both just feel apathy. Your not mad, angry, ~ you just don't give a damn.

 

Thankfully, we're not there yet.

 

If you do divorce? The first thing you personally need to do is learn how to be single and live alone ~ and be completely at ease and happy with it.

Right now as you've described yourself? You don't feel complete unless your in a relationship and/or have a man in your life.

 

True. Being separated for the last month, I'm doing fairly well on my own. But I still have those fears (about needing a man in my life) that will take time to work through. Actually, I need to work through those even if we stay together.

 

And its obvious to me that you've a certain amount of resent toward the DH in that you earn 15X more than he does, that your carrying the bulk of the financial load, your career is soaring while his nose diving or meandering along at best?

 

Despite the great strides that women have made over the last forty to fifty years? There's still that societal and cultural myth ~ fallacy ~ lie that its the man that should be the main provider, protector etc. And when those roles are reversed? There's that resentment.

 

I don't need him to earn a huge amount of money, I just want him to get a full time job so that things are more equitable (right now he's only working about 1/4 time). It just feels way too imbalanced, like I'm taking care of a dependent. And, yes, that results in resentment towards and loss of respect for him. He understands that now, and is willing to fix.

 

Your problem isn't in that you can't find another man? Your problem is going to be in finding a man that is your career/educational/intellectual equivalent? At age 42 most of those men are already married and entangled in family and financial obligations & responsibilities.

 

Oh you will not have a problem finding another man ~ even one that's ten or more years younger than you. But you will soon become tired and bored with them.

 

Good point. The guy I was attracted to at work was a blue-collar worker with a full time job and very independent. I'm sure I was attracted to him because he respresented the opposite of my husband. But I'm obviously not thinking clearly right now, and it would have ended in disaster I'm sure. A suitable long-term partner would be much harder to find.

 

Can passion and attraction be re-kindled? You bet it can, but its going to take some learning, growing, discovering, and re-evaluating.

 

That gives me some hope.

 

Your best shot at true love and happiness is with the first man that you married 20 years ago. Enroll his butt in a gym and make him go five times a week for no less than an hour!

 

Take his @zz shopping and get him some new clothes that make you attracted to him.

 

Tell him to get out of the house and to get some new hobbies, and make some new friends, and to give you some space.

 

Tell him to take an interest in you and what your interested in! Like its going to kill him to watch an hour of Home and Garden Network, or a movie on Lifetime.

 

Buy him a copy of "Light Her Fire" and then buy yourself a copy of "Light His Fire!"

 

Read the "Five Languages of Love!" Find out what your love language is and what his love language is!

 

Read "Divorcebusting"

 

All great suggestions (except for HGN and Lifetime ).

 

This may be a long, rough, road, but maybe all is not lost. We still care about each other, and he is very willing to make changes (within reason, of course) to preserve our marriage. I will need to make changes, too, of course. One thing is becoming clear - it's too early to file for divorce without making a massive effort first to save the marriage.

[PWSX3]

There are three parts to a relationship;

yours, his, & ours. Or me, him, us!!!!!

 

You need to have quality time together, that means make time just for you & him, such as a date night. We make time for work, kids, friends, etc. but never a set time for us. (I mean a couple)

 

I don't make a lot of money so I had to use my imagination a lot. There were lots of things I would have loved to take my ex G/F too. As for the former wife, I did lots of things for her but that's another story. Just taking a walk in the park, going for a picnic in the mountains, beach, park, etc. Just spending time together to talk, learn more about each other.

 

My Ex G/F always talked about change, you want me to change, etc.etc. Then it hit me, I would much rather call it adjusting. We are always changing as we grow, but I like calling it adjusting because then you fit in & aren't doing something for someone else.

 

I would gladly adjust for someone if it would make me a better person. I would also adjust (to a curtain point of coarse) for someone I cared for, doesn't mean it's bad but I did adjust things for her to please her & it didn't hurt me at all.....

 

Good to hear you aren't ready to throw in the towel, there is a lot of good resources I feel to make a marriage live and well again.

 

I would also recommended the book ; the five love languages. Short book but good stuff.

[hardcandy]

You say that your much more independent and secure now... I don't buy it..

1. You really haven't been independent because you've been married for the past 20 years, and have hardly been without a man for very long.

2. You wouldn't have thoughts like these, imo

So, I guess my fears are 1) I may find other men to date, but I will never find one to fall in love with and 2) I can't truly be happy without a man by my side, and 3) without a man society will judge me to be abnormal, defective, or not whole.

The first 2 are true, and the 3rd is false.

Also, alot of your focus is being with guy (which dependent not independent), see point 2 above and

Truth be told, I'm one of those women who has hardly been without a man for very long at any point of my life. When I was younger, that was definitely fueled by insecurity. I never cheated on my boyfriends, but would usually have the next guy squarely in my sights before splitting up with the last

Fueled by insecurity? It seems like there is still insecurity!

The parts in bold (above and below) may be somewhat telling..

To add to my anxiety, a coworker who I had a crush on recently asked me out, then stood me up (the rejection was devastating to me).

Seems like you have or had another guy in your sights!!

 

My husband is a great guy. Generous, kind, devoted, faithful, supportive and, yes, even good looking.

Seems like good qualities to me, and practically what every woman claims they want in a guy.

My career has taken off, and his has taken a nose dive. My income is, literally, about 15x greater than his. I'm covering the mortgage, and saving for retirement for both of us. I also have issues with what I perceive as immature behavior (I won't get into the details). He works out of our house, so he is also home all the time. He doesn't go out with friends. I just feel like he's so dependent on me, and like nobody is taking care of me. I have lost respect for him.

You're not better than him because your income is more, your career has taken off, and it seems like that is what you're implying. Alot of focus here is about money.. He's dependent on you, and you come across as if you're dependent on guys. The part in bold above I think may be important and what your not communicating. Gunny brings up some good points. Society is changing and it's not uncommon for the wife to be making more than the husband. I agree with everything Gunny wrote on this subject.

 

What Gunny says...

Your problem isn't in that you can't find another man? Your problem is going to be in finding a man that is your career/educational/intellectual equivalent? At age 42 most of those men are already married and entangled in family and financial obligations & responsibilities.

Very Very True.

 

I also agree with Gunny that the marriage is really over when one or the other party no longer cares about the marriage. It sounds like your husband cares, do you? If you are going to put in the effort to save the marriage then dating other guys would be the last thing you should do. That will only make matters worse. You're obviously following a pattern of past behaviour with guys.. You have your sights set on another guy before splitting up with the last (my guess is your the one that ended the relationships) and you have a "crush" on this other guy. My personal feeling is that you're using your husband as a safety net. Right now the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence, but keep in mind there's just as many weeds only different kinds. I wish you luck 20 years is a long time to throw away.

Edited May 1, 2010 by hardcandy

[PWSX3]

Just remember it's not a 50/50 It is 100% on both parties!!!!

[You Go Girl]

DO NOT throw away 20 years because you have decided your husband is less than perfect. Do not throw away 20 years because you are *more man financially* than he is right now.

Think about the small truths in life...

Who knows what you looked like 20 years ago? Do you want to have to break out the pictures to show your new man what you looked like without wrinkles?

Now that's just looks...shallow somewhat, but it's an example of having to recount your entire adult life with a new person. You'll turn to them laughing--start to say "remember whe-"and then stop. The new guy wasn't there. He won't get the inside joke. He won't ever get the inside joke. Those days are gone, never to be had again, and all that's left of them is memories.

How much of a role does memory play in love? HUGE. You'll have 20 years of photos, holidays, birthdays, celebrations, small tragedies that you survived together--and where are you going to put all that stuff? Lock it in a trunk in your head? Such a large part of your life's memories...that you can never share with a new person, because to do so would be cruel and unusual punishment. You'll have to remember all those memories by yourself. No sharing allowed.

See how empty life would become?

 

You and your man have a very good chance of saving your marriage. Forget crushes--they burst like overfilled balloons, leaving nothing but shreds on the ground. I can guarantee every crush will disappoint you.

You have something REAL.

Glad to hear you're in councelling. Complacency and taking a spouse for granted will kill a marriage faster than a crush, anyday of the year.

As for rekindling the sex drive?

You're in your prime, so no physical reason there. What's missing is newness. But! There's newness in each other...you two need to share more. You don't see the newness in each other because you're not sharing it with each other.

People don't stay stagnant--not you, not him. And there's always more to discover.

The grass isn't greener. It's just a different patch of grass over there. You don't want to get to --all that effort to let go and start anew--just to find it's simply a different patch of grass. Since you have no serious complaints (I view your complaints as minimal compared to cheating, alcoholics, drug addicts, abusers, etc., etc., etc.) it would probably be a huge mistake to want a new man, when you already have a good man.

 

Always, be very careful what you wish for--you just might get it.

[trippi1432]

Pillowtalk - I am your age and was with my ex for almost 16 years....I will tell you now, months later, that my ex told me where we know we went wrong.

 

He found a new girlfriend very shortly after we split up...he wasn't attracted to me anymore because I had put on weight, therefore I was no longer the passionate woman he used to know. Guess what, everyone changes over the years, his body didn't turn me on that much either, but we had a decent sex life. It was the only place that we did get along at for years. He and his new girlfriend are very well suited for each other because they do everything together...granted, it is probably more what she wants to do, but for the first time in his life he cares enough about someone other than himself. He actually wants to make her happy.

 

I tell you this because if you have a good thing.....don't let it go just because your girlfriends don't have it....let them complain, but keep your mouth shut. I was stupid...while my friends complained about their boyfriends, ex's ....etc....I bragged on mine. Why was this stupid? Because I let him know that I bragged on him so much....because he felt any woman would be lucky to have him, the more ego I gave him, the more I was unattractive.

 

Passion is in the heart, the mind and the soul. It's looking into the eyes of the person you are making love to and seeing the inner soul of that person....not the physical being...but the soul. You can only do that with someone you have taken the time to get to know, that you have made an investment in. There are many people out there who think that a one-night stand is making progress, you have 20 years invested in a relationship. Passion and romance are two totally different things....a woman brings the passion more than not, it's up to the man to meet you halfway and bring the romance. If you bring the passion and he doesn't meet you halfway....either let him know what romance you are missing or kiss him goodbye if he doesn't think of you that way anymore.

 

If you can bring the passion but the most simple romantic things end....then you have a reason to re-evaluate and change course.

[Gunny376]

Get yourself a cup of coffee as this may get long?

 

Today as I write this, is Sunday. Drive down to the nursing home and have a look around? All of the men and women all for the most part look about the same.

 

Many women speak about finding their one true, everlasting love, the love of their life. And it does happen, just enough to make the other 99% believe that its possible.

 

Being "In love" is primarily a bio-chemical reaction in the brain that last from about six to eighteen months. After that? There had better something to replace it. (Time Magazine, National Geographic ~ if you need the exact month the articled were published I can provide them for you)

 

Scientist have done brain scans on people that are so called "in love" and they're almost identical to people that suffer from obsessive-compulsive disorder.

 

Finding a good man or woman is much like finding a good job? They're out there, and they are people that have them. But generally speaking? They're hard to come by.

 

Why? Because the ones' that have them have had them for a good long time and while, they plan on hanging on to them, and your just about going to have to get them away from them.

 

The divorce rate for first time marriages ranges from 44% to 50%. This is primarily because people get married too young, without acquiring the relationship, communication skills they need to pull it off to begin with.

 

The divorce rate for second and third time marriages go up about 10% with each successive marriage.

 

I find it interesting that in the State of Alabama its illegal to marry the same person more than three times, and illegal to get married more than six times.

 

Do you know what that means? That means that there are a lot of people out there that are just plain too stupid and ignorant to be married. Personally, I know a guy that been married and divorced to the same woman four times, (the fourth time they had to drive 2 and half hours to Georgia to get married!

 

When we get married we're actually marrying three different people. We marry the person that we think we re 'marrying? We marry the person that we're actually are marrying!

 

And we're marrying the person that is going to come about over the course of the years of having been married to you.

 

(There is a fourth that you generally meet in divorce court, as in "I can't believe that's the same woman I've been married to all of these years!"

 

In so far as attractiveness or in finding your mate attractive, there's things that can be done about that. You can lose weight and and get in shape without going on a diet nor stepping into a gym. Simply read "Cook This and Not This" and the other series of books, (They're out in the car, its late and I'm too lazy to go out and get them. I list them later)

 

I mentioned your reading "Light His Fire" and his reading "Light Her Fire" (Neither of you should read the others books, but if you still have children at home? You should read "How Can We Light A Fire When the Children Are Driving Us Crazy!"

 

 

Finances? 80% of most American homes are one paycheck away from having a refrigerator crisis? No food in the house. 90% of all American houses are two months from being foreclosed or evicted.

 

Read Dave Ramsey's "Complete Money Make Over!" and Helen Hunt's "Debt Proof Living" I like Helen more so because she had a mortgage in CA in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, car (f)leases, and owed over $100,000 in credit card debt. And her husband worked for a bank!

 

And she paid it all back! It took her thirteen years, and she says that if she had known what she learned along the way? She could have paid it off in half the time.

 

Get a couple copies of "Romance 101" and "1001 Ways To Be Romantic" and "1001 More Ways to be Romantic"

 

A lot of guys come on here at LS and complain about not getting enough sex in their marriages. They should read, "Why Men Don't Get Enough Sex and Women Don't Get Enough Love" for starters.

 

But most of all? Many men are simply lousy lovers. For them its "Wham, bamn and Thank You Ma'am!" and they the roll over and go to sleep. And then they don't understand why they're wives aren't interested in just being a sperm depository?

 

They should read "How To Give Her Absolute Pleasure and Having Her Begging for more........... Its written by a woman that explains sex and the enjoyment of such from a women's perspective, (She also goes into herbals, legalizing pot etc)

 

At 42 your not going to have a problem finding another man nor another husband. But your going to have to go through the drunks, the drug addicts, the crack heads, the "Chicken-heads, (Crystal Meth users) bikers, cowboys, the guys coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan suffering from PTSD, depression and anxiety, don't have a car, can't hold down a decent job, un-emplyed and on and on!

 

Men? They're like Pillsbury doughboys? When you find yourself a good one? You've got to get rid of all the crap their mothers, sisters, and aunts taught them!

 

Then your going to have to kneed them, fold them, roll them out, and repeat the process again until they understand the way that you need to be wanted, needed, treated ~ an loved!

 

Do you really want to throw twenty years of hard labor away? Just to start all over again with some blue-collar jock?

 

Get IC as you are and as he is! But when push comes to shove? Grab him by the ears and bounce him off the wall!

 

Damnit! You need to listen to me!

[Savanna-O]

From experience in thse kind of situations.. is more often than not a case of.. the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

 

But, at the same time- you only live once and your a long time dead!

[Gunny376]

From experience in thse kind of situations.. is more often than not a case of.. the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

 

But, at the same time- you only live once and your a long time dead!

 

Truer words have never been spoken nor said!

[pillowtalk]

Damnit! You need to listen to me!

 

I have my cup of coffee and I'm listening, Gunny

 

I am really amazed and grateful for how passionate you all are (based on your own personal experiences) about how important it is to work on and save a (my) marriage. As you can imagine, I've received a wide variety of advice from my girlfriends. My best friend from college encouraged me to divorce, get out of my unhappy marriage, and find that new man that will rock my world. Some don't want to steer me one way or another. Some warn me that I DON'T want to experience single life and the dating world. And, yes, that the grass isn't actually greener on the other side. Most are very pleased that I'm now talking about making an effort to examine and fix things with my H.

 

I am still not 100% sure that this marriage can be saved, but I am 100% sure that we need to examine everything we think went wrong and make every effort to fix it. H and I are meeting some time this week to talk about what we think we have done wrong, and what we have done right, over the last 20 years. I think we have to have a good understanding of this before we can proceed.

 

We will both need to continue IC, and at some point it should be clear (won't it?) when to start marital counseling again.

 

Meanwhile, while separated, I am concerned that I have to be 100% determined not to become involved with another man. I know this is absolutely, critically necessary if I want to save my marriage. Communication and intimacy have been so poor in my marriage for so many years that I feel very lonely, and I know that's not going to change over night. I feel very vulnerable about this, and I know it will take some serious determination and strength on my part over the next few months. Some people will read this, I'm sure, and feel the need to criticize me about my admitted insecurities, but they are what they are and I'm just trying to be honest about my state of mind right now. And, there's no need to remind me how very lonely I could be without my H and marriage. Hopefully at some point things will be repaired to the point that I can actually turn to my H to alleviate this lonliness, but I'm not there yet.

[trippi1432]

I have my cup of coffee and I'm listening, Gunny

 

I am really amazed and grateful for how passionate you all are (based on your own personal experiences) about how important it is to work on and save a (my) marriage. As you can imagine, I've received a wide variety of advice from my girlfriends. My best friend from college encouraged me to divorce, get out of my unhappy marriage, and find that new man that will rock my world. Some don't want to steer me one way or another. Some warn me that I DON'T want to experience single life and the dating world. And, yes, that the grass isn't actually greener on the other side. Most are very pleased that I'm now talking about making an effort to examine and fix things with my H.

 

I am still not 100% sure that this marriage can be saved, but I am 100% sure that we need to examine everything we think went wrong and make every effort to fix it. H and I are meeting some time this week to talk about what we think we have done wrong, and what we have done right, over the last 20 years. I think we have to have a good understanding of this before we can proceed.

 

We will both need to continue IC, and at some point it should be clear (won't it?) when to start marital counseling again.

 

Meanwhile, while separated, I am concerned that I have to be 100% determined not to become involved with another man. I know this is absolutely, critically necessary if I want to save my marriage. Communication and intimacy have been so poor in my marriage for so many years that I feel very lonely, and I know that's not going to change over night. I feel very vulnerable about this, and I know it will take some serious determination and strength on my part over the next few months. Some people will read this, I'm sure, and feel the need to criticize me about my admitted insecurities, but they are what they are and I'm just trying to be honest about my state of mind right now. And, there's no need to remind me how very lonely I could be without my H and marriage. Hopefully at some point things will be repaired to the point that I can actually turn to my H to alleviate this lonliness, but I'm not there yet.

 

Pillowtalk - Good for you....be stronger than that for your marriage....men will say anything to get a roll in the hay and pretend to be something they are not. They can tell when you are lonely and that makes you vulnerable....don't play the game.

 

Another bit of advice, don't play games with your husband either....you might get advice to make him think that you are fine, you are out having fun....that's how I lost mine. Drove him right into someone else's arms.

 

If you want to talk about the progress you are making...keep it between you, him and the IC. Come on here and chat about it, but don't let your friends influence your decisions or change your way of thinking....keep a clear head about you on that and you will be fine. Advice you get here...same, there are some very fine folks who will steer you in the right direction to help get your marriage back on track. Gunny is one of the best....:love:

 

Eventually, yes, you will need to get to marital counseling. IC is good for working on yourself, but the marital counseling is working on both of you as partners in the marriage.

[pillowtalk]

Pillowtalk - Good for you....be stronger than that for your marriage....men will say anything to get a roll in the hay and pretend to be something they are not. They can tell when you are lonely and that makes you vulnerable....don't play the game.

 

Another bit of advice, don't play games with your husband either....you might get advice to make him think that you are fine, you are out having fun....that's how I lost mine. Drove him right into someone else's arms.

 

If you want to talk about the progress you are making...keep it between you, him and the IC. Come on here and chat about it, but don't let your friends influence your decisions or change your way of thinking....keep a clear head about you on that and you will be fine. Advice you get here...same, there are some very fine folks who will steer you in the right direction to help get your marriage back on track. Gunny is one of the best....:love:

 

Eventually, yes, you will need to get to marital counseling. IC is good for working on yourself, but the marital counseling is working on both of you as partners in the marriage.

 

Thanks, Trippi - I apprecate this post and your earlier one, too. I won't play games with my H. He knows I'm not fine and not out having fun (if I understand what you mean by that). When I go out w/ my girlfriends we go to dinner, movie, hiking, BBQ in the back yard, etc., but no bars or trolling for men or anything like that.

[You Go Girl]

but no bars or trolling for men or anything like that.

 

That's the only way your marriage stands a good chance--keep yourself grounded.

Discuss with your H that he too realizes this.

 

Then, if it sadly ends...at least you can say you gave it your best, and didn't half-try, and won't someday be remorseful, guilt-ridden, and the rest of the nasties that come with infidelity.