Moving out of the "friend zone"

[SBB]

I need advice. There's tons of articles out there how guys can make a female friend more than friends, but I'm in the reverse situation.

 

I’ve known this guy for about 2 years, more or less. I’m 25 and he’s a couple years older. We met through mutual friends and for about the past year we have been getting to be pretty good friends. We go to dinner, movies, concerts, etc. Usually it’s with a group of friends, but more and more lately it’s just been him and I. Without going into too much detail, we really “click.” We have so much in common, it’s almost freaky. I’ll mention a song I loved as a kid and he was obsessed with it, too. We like the same things, we both think the other is hilarious, etc. Good times. During our friendship, most of the time he’s been casually dating other girls. I met him when he was dating, and I became friends with his GF, and often times the three of us would go out. I became interested in him as more than a friend when we transitioned from acquaintances to friends, so it’s been a while now. However, like I said, he’s never been available— except for once when he was pretty shook up about a recent break up and I didn’t feel right “swooping in” at that time. I also feel like it’s rude or inconsiderate to tell him how I feel when he’s seeing someone else, because since we’re friends it’s like giving him an ultimatum almost—break up with her and start seeing me, or we’re risking our friendship, which both of us cherish (I think).

 

Sometimes he treats me like “one of the guys” – joking about sex, masturbating, pointing out a girl he thinks is hot, etc. However, this is usually not the case, and happens rarely. Most of the time, he avoids talking about his current relationship, we’ve never talked about his current sex life (past relationships and stuff, yes)… most of the time he’s aware although I can fit in with him and his guy friends (better than other friends that are girls, most of the time), I am still a girl who doesn’t wanna hear about how hot some chick is. More and more lately, he’s been joking around about how we should get married and have babies, even going so far as mentioning how we should make an agreement that if neither of us are attached years down the road, since we’re so perfect together we should just get married. He often will hug me in public and say “I love this woman” and gush about how much he likes me to those around (or just to me). But it always seems so lighthearted and never serious, so I can never tell if he’s not-so-subtly hinting about how he really feels, or if he’s just like this with friends (the flaw there is he’s not like this with other female friends of his, even ones he’s known longer than me).

 

So I like him—a lot—and the long and short of it is, I suspect he has feelings for me but the timing is never right. I don’t want to screw up our friendship by turning him into a friend with benefits or casual sex thing, but I also don’t wanna pressure him into something serious. I’m pretty inexperienced with making the first move—I’ve never been great at flirting—so I’m unsure if I should work myself up to some sort of epic speech or if I should just try something physical some time and see how that goes. (Oh and for the record -- the girl he's currently with is not long-term, he's asked me if he thinks I should break up with her, etc.)

[Phantom9309]

For me, it's hard to say without really knowing the physical attraction he has for you but still, I think it's worth the shot to make a move.

 

I watched the most recent episode of House on Hulu the other day and there was this one line that stood out. Seven said something like, "You don't have to win her heart, you merely have to ask for it."

 

When I get into one of my philosophical moods, I usually make a comparison of life in the past vs the present. Today, people don't have to win hearts by doing courageous things like killing dragons, etc. Almost anything can be misconstrued so, it's just easier to ask and be straight forward. In the end, you might get turned down but I think it's better than not knowing. Hopefully some of that made sense.

[SBB]

Yeah I should've mentioned that -- I was at a bar with him recently and I was telling him about some dude that had been hitting on me really badly, and he was like "I don't know how I feel about guys hitting on you. I don't like it." etc etc, clearly he's protective or he's jealous? He's said he thinks I'm cute in the past but never more than that, am I like his little sister or is he flirting, who knows.

 

Basically I feel like there's enough evidence to support me making a move, I just don't know what that "move" should be.

[ConfusedBunny]

If you are both still single...

 

It could be that he has the same fears as you in regards to putting the friendship at risk and also risking the possible rejection. It sounds like you guys get along brilliantly, in a way a lot of people don't even get in their relationships, that's really lucky.

 

I think that telling him outright could put him on the spot and you're also putting your neck out on the line. If you're not scared of the potential rejection and the friction that could cause then go ahead and speak up. Personally, I would treat this with subtlety. Step up the flirting a little, drop hints that might steer him in the right direction and give him the confidence, and supply yourselves with the opportunity by being alone somewhere nice.

[carhill]

Two parts:

 

First is the friendship part......does he take a sincere, proactive interest in your life? The guys you date, your mother, interests of yours, etc?

 

Second, if he's flying all those balloons about marriage, children, agreements, etc., why, after being so 'broken up' over his last relationship, would he start dating someone else whom he admits is 'short term'? Rebound?

 

To me, and I'm a man, I'm seeing a man whose words and actions aren't lining up. From your actions, he probably senses that you like him, so he's stringing you along until you fit into his plan for himself. My bet is, since he easily moves from one woman to another (you can share how long between GF's), he's probably attractive to a wide range of women and has no problem approaching them. Given that, why hasn't he approached you and asked you on a date? Something to think about.

 

I'd get busy......doing something else.

[norajane]

So you've seen him with his gf's. How does he treat them? What is his behavior like with someone he does want to date and is dating, and how does that match up with his behavior with you?

 

He's been dating and breaking up with different girls all along - which means he's had the opportunity to ask you out and hasn't taken it. What have you been doing? Have you dated anyone during the time you've known him? Maybe you should be dating. It will either wake him up that you're not necessarily going to be available if he continues to wait to start anything with you, or he won't care, which is fine since you'll be with someone you want to date.

 

I guess I'm saying don't pass up other guys in favor of this one. Whatever is going on, he's content with how things are. He has you as a great friend, and he dates women who interest him for whatever length of time those relationships last.

[ConfusedBunny]

It could be that he's scared of commitment. Commitment phobic men had a tendency of dating girls who *aren't* perfect for them, so they have an easy get out clause. He might think that you are pretty special, and therefore be scared of getting with you now, because he's not ready, not done playing the field, therefore yes. He would be stringing you along until the time is right for something 'real'. It's not cool though, if thats the case and you wait for him, you could end up waiting a long time...forever in fact.

 

If something doesn't happen between you while you have this opportunity, you should probably move on with your affections, maybe you will find someone better. Maybe he will be spurred into action by seeing that you won't always be available for him.

[SBB]

Hmmm. Some really good stuff-- thanks! I've never considered the fact that he's stringing me along... but I can say with quite a bit of certainty that based on my actions I've probably put him squarely in the "friend zone" thus far. Like I said, I'm not used to being the one having to do the asking out, etc. He's pretty insecure in general, but is very charming. The girls he's been dating are casual relationships because he likes all women and he's always the one who's getting chased. The last couple of girls have ALL asked HIM out/approached him, which is maybe why they aren't working for him since he's not choosing them.

 

To answer how he treats GFs, I'm actually treated quite a bit differently than them. In public he's not into PDA or making it known he's attached to these girls... they're rarely acting "coupley." As to what happens one-on-one or in private, I can't say. With me, it's like he's proud of me and is always talking me up to people, introducing me, etc. Lots of side-hugs and arm around me, the occasional kiss on the forehead or cheek, that kind of thing. (My friends have said "If I was his GF, I'd be pissed to watch him act the way he does around you.") I'm also pretty good friends with his guy friends, which can't be said for his GFs.

 

Personally, I think he likes me but has the same fears I do about risking the friendship... OR... he has no clue I'm into him that way and is just really into me as a friend.

 

Does the whole jealousy card really work with guys the way it does with women? I've debated dating someone or flirting with someone in front of him, but it seems like that would backfire and send the message I'm *not* into him but am proactively looking?

[carhill]

Personally, I think he likes me but has the same fears I do about risking the friendship... OR... he has no clue I'm into him that way and is just really into me as a friend.

 

The way it works with me and I've had a lot of female 'friends' is, if I like them in a romantic way, at that point, whenever it is, and it's not always immediately, I ask them out on a 'date'. If they decline, and a number have, but are otherwise a loving and supportive friend, I process that rejection and, later, continue on as a friend, if they are amenable. If other, not.

 

I've never spoken to female friends about being married to them, having children with them, agreeing to not see other people, etc. Nor do I talk with them about explicit sexual behaviors. I don't see women as 'one of the guys', regardless of their friendship status. That's inappropriate, IMO. YMMV.

 

Does the whole jealousy card really work with guys the way it does with women? I've debated dating someone or flirting with someone in front of him, but it seems like that would backfire and send the message I'm *not* into him but am proactively looking?

 

I can tell you, with a friend whom I was 'in love' with for many years, seeing such actions from her merely solidified the perspective in my mind that she was a friend and would never be anything more. It reinforced the reality that she did not love me in a romantic way, was not attracted to me in a romantic way and caused me to reassess the friendship and realize that she was not really *my friend*, thus impelling me to drop her as a friend.

 

You're likely far younger and your social culture operates differently than how we old farts operate. Keep that in mind. At my age, I'm pretty much done with social games. Too many more valuable things, in a increasing short life, to do.

 

Good luck

[norajane]

jealousy card

I was not suggesting you try to make him jealous. I am suggesting that you genuinely look around and see if there is anyone you are interested in. Watching him date girl after girl after girl while he makes no move to ask you out means you aren't opening your eyes to any other men with whom you could actually enjoy being.

I've debated dating someone or flirting with someone in front of him, but it seems like that would backfire and send the message I'm *not* into him but am proactively looking?

 

You mean the same message he's sending you by dating other women?

[ConfusedBunny]

I was not suggesting you try to make him jealous. I am suggesting that you genuinely look around and see if there is anyone you are interested in. Watching him date girl after girl after girl while he makes no move to ask you out means you aren't opening your eyes to any other men with whom you could actually enjoy being.

 

 

You mean the same message he's sending you by dating other women?

 

I should point out that that is what I meant to. Open your eyes, move on, enjoy yourself. *If* that happens to catch his attention and spur him into action, then so be it...but don't do it deliberately to make him jealous. And don't try and rub it in his face...stuff like that is transparent.

[SBB]

So... I've decided that I need to find out what he feels about me otherwise I'll drive myself crazy and never "move on" as you all suggest I do with other guys, because I'll always wonder "what if."

 

So what's the general consensus? Be blunt and tell him face-to-face how I feel? Write it down? Send a messenger? Make a move physically or suggest making our relationship physical? Do I wait until he's officially single or tell him before a new lady comes along?

[norajane]

Next time he jokes about getting married, tell him you think you should date first. And then look him in the eye, smile, and hold his gaze, and tell him "we could start now". Hold the eye contact until he responds. His reaction will tell you what you need to know.

 

Under no circumstances should you allow any casual sex, fwb thing to happen. That will kill any chance you have of ever dating, and will destroy the friendship, too.

Edited April 30, 2010 by norajane