the role of the IC

April 28, 2010

so ive been thinking. when i entered into IC/MC the first and foremost advice was NC. strict NC. cut the other person out of your life and forget about them.

But now months after the fact I'm starting to question the motives of the counselor. Dont get me wrong. I dont think theyre out to get anyone or anything of the sort. But maybe, the IC/MC really is only focused on one task. Making a marriage work.

Afterall, they make their money in hopes of saving a marriage. Helping these people to reconcile. If the couple decides not to continue counseling or doesnt try to work on their marriage, then there really is no place for the counselor in all of this.

Shouldnt the counselor as a human and as a professional give thought to all sides of the situation? Is advising strict NC necessarily fair to the party thats shut out? Is it morally correct to leave one individual broken, lost, not able to make sense of it all by instructing the AP to drop them immediately and never look back?

I have trouble with this. Because the IC/MC is working for the two individuals paying them the money without any concern to what their advice could be doing to that other person.

I know people seek MC with a goal and their counselor is helping them to achieve that goal. But it just seems wrong to me to "help" these two people while leaving the other person to deal with the pain and not have the WS to talk to while ending a very intense relationship.

I think that a WS created a problem by straying, and they hold some responsibility in finishing that relationship, talking about it and ending it properly. To advise someone (as i was advised) to close that door and never look back could be damaging to the other individual. You had an affair, you deal with the consequences. And part of those consequences are working through the hurt and pain that all parties involved are feeling.

We've seen it countless times here. Poor women left without an explanation or a chance to say goodbye. Unable to go on without a sense of understanding. Shouldnt the counselor have a duty to make sure that saving one relationship shouldnt devastate the remaining party, leaving them unable to function?

just my opinion. looking for others.

Edited April 28, 2010 by mybrowneyedgirl

April 28, 2010

I think you know the answer to your queries. There is a reason you went for IC/MC in the first place - to resolve your marriage. If the OM wants to resolve his own issues he should seek his own IC. Have you heard of taking the rotten apple out of the bunch before cleaning the good ones? How can you clean the good apples without first getting rid of the rotten one?

Your reasoning about how wrong IC/MC focus on the 2 people without the OM/OW is totally flawed. You can't remain friend's with the OM/OW while trying to work on your marriage - I guess that was the reason your H checked out after trying. Haven't learned from that?

Reading behind your post just shows your deep feelings for OM, albeit saying otherwise. Your H must have spotted this even though you said you hid it well, hence he felt it was not worth working on the M.

Having read most of your posts, it is best you take the OM back and see how it goes. Stop deceiving yourself. It probably will work out for the two of you. Who knows!

April 28, 2010

You should not use the same counselor for both IC and MC. The two are often in conflict with each other, as what may be best for the individual may not be what is best for the M. (and vice versa)

I am of a mind that many people need some length of time in IC before starting MC, and couples that find themselves dealing with the fallout of an affair, even more so. Taking some time to work on healing independant of each other in IC can only lead to making MC that much more effective.

The role of the IC should be to do whatever is needed to help the person in IC, regardless of it's effect on the marriage, the OM/OW, etc. In IC you should be learning what it is that you want, need, the reasons you acted in the way you did, and how to be more effective in handling situations of a similar nature in the future. The focus should be on your healing in IC, the focus should not be on repairing the marriage at that point, until/unless that is a decision you come to during the process of IC at which point you should be reffered to someone else who can focus on the healing of the marriage as opposed to the healing of the individual.

April 28, 2010

oh it is what it is. funny you can take just about anything and turn it in to my deep seeded love for my OM. not the case here.

i simply think that being remorseful and taking responsibility for your actions means you need to own how your actions hurt everyone involved.

the same could be said for the BW recently contacting me. maybe I morally owe her some explanation. Maybe i need to face what I did and let her speak to me or seek clarification from me in order for her to heal.

its the fact that there are so many people involved on all sides and im curious as to if its appropriate to only consider the ones directly speaking with the IC/MC.

owning your actions means just that. taking care of what youve done to everyone....not just a single party.

i think your apple analogy is a good one and i agree. but getting rid of the rotten apple maybe should not mean ignoring it and throwing it away. maybe giving it a "proper" farewell as to not leave it so rotten that it has no chance to be picked by someone else.

April 28, 2010

MBEG, you gotta remember a couple of things.

An MC is only capable of counseling and assisting the people in front of him. The married couple. His JOB (and that's what it is) is to assist them. Typically, an MC is only focused on the marriage, and the individuals in it. The majority of the time he is going to work on the marriage relationship, and not even focus on the individuals unless there is something so out of balance he can't work on the relationship until that balance is corrected.

He couldn't possibly focus on the OW/OM. Not unless in some bizarre situation the married couple brought the OW/OM along for their sessions (and could you imagine how that would run?).

His goal IS the healing of that marriage relationship, or the eventual dissolution of it if it's totally untenable.

If the OW/OM needs counseling, then they would have to go to IC. Just as either of the married couple need to do as well.

It's kind of silly to expect a MARRIAGE counselor to have any focus on helping/aiding the affair partner, when you just sit down and consider it from that perspective.

And ordinarily I would agree with you that we should always focus on repairing the damage we've done to others...but you're not faced with an "ordinary" situation when an affair happens.

Because of the direct betrayal involved in infidelity, the WS has to focus on helping one or the other of the other people in the triangle. He/she CANNOT try to do both...because aiding the affair partner is in direct, opposite conflict of helping their betrayed spouse.

As much as it might suck, at the end of the day, the WS has to CHOOSE which person they owe allegiance to...which person they're going to help, and which they're going to hurt.

Any attempt to do both only continues the affair pattern that they're being expected to break...and is a violation of the feelings of the 'other person' in the relationship.

In a perfect world, it would be great to believe we could all help each other heal and move on.

Not realistic...especially not when you consider the emotions and conflicts created in an affair.

And the same applies to the scope of counseling provided by an MC or IC...it's pretty clearly laid out when you go to them...and expecting them to go outside of that scope isn't realistic either. They're paid for their job, paid for their time, and paid for their focus on the job that they're expected to accomplish.

April 29, 2010

so ive been thinking. when i entered into IC/MC the first and foremost advice was NC. strict NC. cut the other person out of your life and forget about them.

But now months after the fact I'm starting to question the motives of the counselor. Dont get me wrong. I dont think theyre out to get anyone or anything of the sort. But maybe, the IC/MC really is only focused on one task. Making a marriage work.

Afterall, they make their money in hopes of saving a marriage. Helping these people to reconcile. If the couple decides not to continue counseling or doesnt try to work on their marriage, then there really is no place for the counselor in all of this.

Shouldnt the counselor as a human and as a professional give thought to all sides of the situation? Is advising strict NC necessarily fair to the party thats shut out? Is it morally correct to leave one individual broken, lost, not able to make sense of it all by instructing the AP to drop them immediately and never look back?

I have trouble with this. Because the IC/MC is working for the two individuals paying them the money without any concern to what their advice could be doing to that other person.

I know people seek MC with a goal and their counselor is helping them to achieve that goal. But it just seems wrong to me to "help" these two people while leaving the other person to deal with the pain and not have the WS to talk to while ending a very intense relationship.

I think that a WS created a problem by straying, and they hold some responsibility in finishing that relationship, talking about it and ending it properly. To advise someone (as i was advised) to close that door and never look back could be damaging to the other individual. You had an affair, you deal with the consequences. And part of those consequences are working through the hurt and pain that all parties involved are feeling.

We've seen it countless times here. Poor women left without an explanation or a chance to say goodbye. Unable to go on without a sense of understanding. Shouldnt the counselor have a duty to make sure that saving one relationship shouldnt devastate the remaining party, leaving them unable to function?

just my opinion. looking for others.

Yep wholeheartedly.

I think there is an assumption, that because the M hasn't already ended that the A is a blip. I don't think this is true at all.

And counsellors play a huge role in what happens at that crunch point when councelling is sought. And counselling tends to assumes the status quo is better than change, unless change is absolutely necessary. My heart quailed when my xMOM went to counselling - I knew that cultural factors would weigh more with him. Although I was glad he would confront some demons along the way.

My (brief) counsellor likened my xAP to Santa. I think there is a general remit in IC circles which says that the feelings in an A are fantasy, not real. Vulnerable individuals fall for this. No-one works out what's what.

Goodness knows how much damage is caused by this to OW and WSs. And BSs who reconcile in good faith to someone whose heart is elsewhere.

My xAP was not a fantasy - I have tried and failed to have ecstatic sexual and conversational encounters with fantasies in the past. My love was real.

We each know fantasy and reality when we feel what is true.

And then other people make us question it sometimes, and in a good way.

Fantasy is when we want to have sex with someone we admire, and we are in a cloud, but when it comes down to it, we do not want to embrace their c**k.

Fantasy is when we realise the AP was a poor substitute for the man we want to be with.

Reality is when we have blissful experiences with another human being that are not culturally written, and make us feel more who we are and not less. This sometimes happens with an AP. And when it does, both people know it is not a fantasy they are living. I promise you that.

April 29, 2010

And ordinarily I would agree with you that we should always focus on repairing the damage we've done to others...but you're not faced with an "ordinary" situation when an affair happens.

This IS the crux of the problem. This is why we need forums like LS. This is why there are very few avenues to discuss our R: affairs are hidden; therefore, are not 'the norm'.

Yet, the stats say that more than 50% of all people are having or have had an affair. So why is it still 'not the norm'???

Just because it isn't the norm (even though it really is), we should still always focus on repairing the damage we've done to others.

April 29, 2010

so ive been thinking. when i entered into IC/MC the first and foremost advice was NC. strict NC. cut the other person out of your life and forget about them.

But now months after the fact I'm starting to question the motives of the counselor. Dont get me wrong. I dont think theyre out to get anyone or anything of the sort. But maybe, the IC/MC really is only focused on one task. Making a marriage work.

Afterall, they make their money in hopes of saving a marriage. Helping these people to reconcile. If the couple decides not to continue counseling or doesnt try to work on their marriage, then there really is no place for the counselor in all of this.

Shouldnt the counselor as a human and as a professional give thought to all sides of the situation? Is advising strict NC necessarily fair to the party thats shut out? Is it morally correct to leave one individual broken, lost, not able to make sense of it all by instructing the AP to drop them immediately and never look back?

I have trouble with this. Because the IC/MC is working for the two individuals paying them the money without any concern to what their advice could be doing to that other person.

I know people seek MC with a goal and their counselor is helping them to achieve that goal. But it just seems wrong to me to "help" these two people while leaving the other person to deal with the pain and not have the WS to talk to while ending a very intense relationship.

I think that a WS created a problem by straying, and they hold some responsibility in finishing that relationship, talking about it and ending it properly. To advise someone (as i was advised) to close that door and never look back could be damaging to the other individual. You had an affair, you deal with the consequences. And part of those consequences are working through the hurt and pain that all parties involved are feeling.

We've seen it countless times here. Poor women left without an explanation or a chance to say goodbye. Unable to go on without a sense of understanding. Shouldnt the counselor have a duty to make sure that saving one relationship shouldnt devastate the remaining party, leaving them unable to function?

just my opinion. looking for others.

I believe it is the role of the IC to help the individual; help him/her unveil the issues that lay deep within until they are strong enough to make decisions for a life and a future that they strive for.

When MM went into IC it drove his W crazy, I'm sure, that she was not included. So, she went to her own IC. The funniest thing happened there. Her IC suggested she buy a book and shove it under MM's nose! Ha, sounds like her IC is trying to conduct MC by way of a very convincing book! So, MM tells her that he'll ask his IC if she wants him to read it and she says let me read it and then I'll tell you. It's been a couple of months now and she still 'hasn't received it in the mail'. I guess we know how she really feels about the book. Or maybe it's that she feels that MM should stand up to his W and say hell no I'm not going to read that book! Let me do MY thing in IC. After all, his IC is all about developing a sense of agency so he needs to stand up for himself and up to his W.

When she went into IC and brought that book home it was almost as if she was saying, 'My IC is better than your IC and THIS is what we're supposed to read'. I don't think MM's IC felt particularly respected that day. I would have told her the book never showed up in the mail too.

The fact is, MM is in IC for himself and it should not be interfered with. His IC never told him to not contact me, in fact, she thinks I am the right woman for him. She has counseled them both before, separately, and has told him that he settled for his W the last time he was in for counseling. She really doesn't want him to settle this time.

THIS particular counselor is helping the individual figure himself out. IF he is never going to love his W, isn't this the right course to take? Why would any W want a man who doesn't love her to stay? We can't make them love us, we just can't. A good IC knows this and won't try to save a M that just isn't working. It might function, but it won't be its best.

And it may be, who knows, that she helps him discover that he is idealizing me as more than I am. I have to accept that. I would rather have him want me as I am instead of as someone he believes I am because otherwise our R would be doomed to fail. A good IC considers all of this.

April 29, 2010

so ive been thinking. when i entered into IC/MC the first and foremost advice was NC. strict NC. cut the other person out of your life and forget about them.

Because, as others have pointed out, YOU said you wanted your M to work. Had you gone in and said "We need help in dissolving our M in a healthy manner - one that won't upset our children" you would have gotten altogether different advice.

But now months after the fact I'm starting to question the motives of the counselor. Dont get me wrong. I dont think theyre out to get anyone or anything of the sort. But maybe, the IC/MC really is only focused on one task. Making a marriage work.

Because thats not only what you asked your MC to do its what you initially asked of LS.

Honestly, and without spite, those questions make me question your mindset. How can you forget what you came here seeking?

Afterall, they make their money in hopes of saving a marriage. Helping these people to reconcile. If the couple decides not to continue counseling or doesnt try to work on their marriage, then there really is no place for the counselor in all of this

No you CAN go to MC to help dissolve a marriage too.

Shouldnt the counselor as a human and as a professional give thought to all sides of the situation? Is advising strict NC necessarily fair to the party thats shut out? Is it morally correct to leave one individual broken, lost, not able to make sense of it all by instructing the AP to drop them immediately and never look back?

I have trouble with this. Because the IC/MC is working for the two individuals paying them the money without any concern to what their advice could be doing to that other person.

I know people seek MC with a goal and their counselor is helping them to achieve that goal. But it just seems wrong to me to "help" these two people while leaving the other person to deal with the pain and not have the WS to talk to while ending a very intense relationship.

I think that a WS created a problem by straying, and they hold some responsibility in finishing that relationship, talking about it and ending it properly. To advise someone (as i was advised) to close that door and never look back could be damaging to the other individual. You had an affair, you deal with the consequences. And part of those consequences are working through the hurt and pain that all parties involved are feeling.

We've seen it countless times here. Poor women left without an explanation or a chance to say goodbye. Unable to go on without a sense of understanding. Shouldnt the counselor have a duty to make sure that saving one relationship shouldnt devastate the remaining party, leaving them unable to function?

If you ever want to know why you got D, just keep re-reading the above. Just like during your M after D-day...your thoughts center around the OMM.

Its patently INSANE to think an MC would discuss the pain of the OP in session with the WS and the BS. That the BS and the WS should spend THEIR money providing counseling to the AP who ISNT there. Unreal.

What you are asking for is xAP-C. EX Affair Partner Counseling.

Lemme guess...for closure? TO help each other slowly end the R? No R ends well...ever. There is always pain and loss to some degree.

Seriously, that's just plain nuts to think that any BS would EVER tolerate xAP-C. Crazy.

And that's my opinion.

April 29, 2010

No R ends well...ever

That's the bottom line, as I see it. Why would affair partners get closure, a hug and a sweet goodbye when hardly anyone else does? Almost everyone else gets D U M P E D at will and with very little regard for their feelings, regardless of why they were dumped - whether someone left them for someone else, they just weren't compatible, the love died, whatever. It's just over and people get dumped.

An MC will counsel the couple to do what they need to do either to work on improving their marriage or to dissolve it, depending on their circumstances and desires. An IC will counsel the person to help them understand themselves better and do what is right for them.

And yeah, maybe that means walking away from an affair partner so the couple can deal with their problems, or the individual can clear his head from his conflicting needs and wants.

Either way, no one blindly follows a counselor's advice. They sure as hell don't do so here, and they only do what they CHOOSE to do. A counselor may tell them to walk away from an affair partner, but it's the WS who actually does so, so some part of them definitely made that choice and not to appease a counselor.

April 29, 2010

Either way, no one blindly follows a counselor's advice. They sure as hell don't do so here, and they only do what they CHOOSE to do. A counselor may tell them to walk away from an affair partner, but it's the WS who actually does so, so some part of them definitely made that choice and not to appease a counselor.

OTOH as we saw in Tbone's thread an IC/MC can counsel in a manner that is not typical of general licensed counselors. He was given a few days to mull it over, then disclose the A to his W or the counselor would! I thought it was bad counsel myself and suggested to Tbone to find a second opinion but he did what the counselor said, or else, and as far as I know we haven't seen him back on the boards.

April 29, 2010

so ive been thinking. when i entered into IC/MC the first and foremost advice was NC. strict NC. cut the other person out of your life and forget about them.

I don't understand IC/MC. Were/Are you in IC or MC?

But now months after the fact I'm starting to question the motives of the counselor. Dont get me wrong. I dont think theyre out to get anyone or anything of the sort. But maybe, the IC/MC really is only focused on one task. Making a marriage work.

The Marriage Counselor is probably. Or helping the two of you -- in the marriage -- to at least attempt to make things work -- or decide it isn't going to work.

Afterall, they make their money in hopes of saving a marriage. Helping these people to reconcile. If the couple decides not to continue counseling or doesnt try to work on their marriage, then there really is no place for the counselor in all of this.

So, you're in marriage counseling?

I don't think counselors dwell on making money the way a lot of people tend to think they do. Most counselor types I've come across are more like artistic people. I'm not naive. I know they have bills to pay -- but I don't think they're thinking in terms of money. I don't even think they feel it is their responsibility to save a marriage. They provide counseling in hopes the individuals in the couple will learn to exist in a healthy manner together or in a healthy manner apart.

Shouldnt the counselor as a human and as a professional give thought to all sides of the situation? Is advising strict NC necessarily fair to the party thats shut out? Is it morally correct to leave one individual broken, lost, not able to make sense of it all by instructing the AP to drop them immediately and never look back?

If they're an individual counselor, they should counsel you towards being healthy enough to make healthy decisions for you. If they're a marriage counselor, they should counsel you as a couple as to steps to take to have a healthy relationship together.

I do think, as an IC, a counselor should listen if you want to say something about your XAP.

Is there an individual here completely alone and lost? I can't remember anymore -- but wasn't your XAP in a marriage himself?

You know -- it depends on what you are telling your counselor. ]He shouldn't be concerned with your XAP unless you are telling him you still want to be with you XAP or have feelings for your XAP. If he's advising you NC at all, I'm assuming because it's marriage counseling and the two of you are working on your marriage.

I have trouble with this. Because the IC/MC is working for the two individuals paying them the money without any concern to what their advice could be doing to that other person.

I think you're focusing on the money thing to minimize your counselor as a person in the helping profession and also as a way to minimize him because you are sooooo concerned for that other person!! Don't you get it? You are way concerned about your XAP. I'm not knocking you for that -- but acknowledge it. Move on with him if that's what you need to do, but stop drawing all of this out hurting others.

I know people seek MC with a goal and their counselor is helping them to achieve that goal. But it just seems wrong to me to "help" these two people while leaving the other person to deal with the pain and not have the WS to talk to while ending a very intense relationship.

So, what do you think the answer is for it all? Have all three of you in the counseling session? Unless your husband is a few fries short of a happy meal, I don't think he will agree to that.

I think that a WS created a problem by straying, and they hold some responsibility in finishing that relationship, talking about it and ending it properly. To advise someone (as i was advised) to close that door and never look back could be damaging to the other individual. You had an affair, you deal with the consequences. And part of those consequences are working through the hurt and pain that all parties involved are feeling.

So, maybe all four of you should be in a room discussing it?

Life has to move on eventually MBEG. It's a grown up decision. You with your husband. Or your XMM with his wife. Or you and XMM together, away from your husband and your XMM's wife. A decision has to be made. And the decision is harsh to someone.

We've seen it countless times here. Poor women left without an explanation or a chance to say goodbye. Unable to go on without a sense of understanding. Shouldnt the counselor have a duty to make sure that saving one relationship shouldnt devastate the remaining party, leaving them unable to function?

just my opinion. looking for others.

I feel badly for your counselor! I don't mean it ugly, but no!!!! It's not his responsibility. He can't fix things for you in a perfect manner.

I still stand by something I think I said a while ago -- you need some time ALONE.

You should not use the same counselor for both IC and MC. The two are often in conflict with each other, as what may be best for the individual may not be what is best for the M. (and vice versa)

My counselor told me this -- he did not feel comfortable giving us MC as he had already developed a relationship with me.

I am of a mind that many people need some length of time in IC before starting MC, and couples that find themselves dealing with the fallout of an affair, even more so. Taking some time to work on healing independant of each other in IC can only lead to making MC that much more effective.

I agree with this a lot.

The role of the IC should be to do whatever is needed to help the person in IC, regardless of it's effect on the marriage, the OM/OW, etc. In IC you should be learning what it is that you want, need, the reasons you acted in the way you did, and how to be more effective in handling situations of a similar nature in the future. The focus should be on your healing in IC, the focus should not be on repairing the marriage at that point, until/unless that is a decision you come to during the process of IC at which point you should be referred to someone else who can focus on the healing of the marriage as opposed to the healing of the individual.

This is exactly what my IC told me.

oh it is what it is. funny you can take just about anything and turn it in to my deep seeded love for my OM. not the case here.

It is a deep-seated love. Or a very powerful obsession. You keep bringing him up. His feelings. You're worried about him being ignored in counseling? I don't mean that as a slur, but own it.

i simply think that being remorseful and taking responsibility for your actions means you need to own how your actions hurt everyone involved.

Sure. I get this. But part of that responsibility is knowing yourself, acknowledging your feelings and acting in a manner that is beneficial to others. In your case, it may very well be time away from your husband and time away from your XAP. You time. I don't know where you are right now. I can't remember the exact facts, but it sounds like you need IC to sort YOU out.

the same could be said for the BW recently contacting me. maybe I morally owe her some explanation. Maybe i need to face what I did and let her speak to me or seek clarification from me in order for her to heal.

I don't know what helps a BS to heal. I imagine it's all according to the individual person and situation.

its the fact that there are so many people involved on all sides and im curious as to if its appropriate to only consider the ones directly speaking with the IC/MC.

Again, you're surely not suggesting all of you should be there? That would probably be a first.

owning your actions means just that. taking care of what youve done to everyone....not just a single party.

Yes, but owning them does not mean you need to stay in contact with any particular person. You can come to a realization of a wrongdoing and move on because any further contact would be harmful also.

i think your apple analogy is a good one and i agree. but getting rid of the rotten apple maybe should not mean ignoring it and throwing it away. maybe giving it a "proper" farewell as to not leave it so rotten that it has no chance to be picked by someone else.

Like a goodbye to my affair partner ceremony? I don't get this at all. I'm not trying to be a smart ass.

I don't like a person being equated to a rotten apple anyway.

I think you're minimizing him by intimating you have the power to leave him so rotten that he has no chance to be picked by someone else. That's a pretty arrogant statement. No insult intended, but I think he, you, and any of either of your current or former partners will all be perfectly fine and ripe for the picking eventually if any of you don't end up together.

Because of the direct betrayal involved in infidelity, the WS has to focus on helping one or the other of the other people in the triangle. He/she CANNOT try to do both...because aiding the affair partner is in direct, opposite conflict of helping their betrayed spouse.

Very true.

As much as it might suck, at the end of the day, the WS has to CHOOSE which person they owe allegiance to...which person they're going to help, and which they're going to hurt.

That's the crux of the matter.

Any attempt to do both only continues the affair pattern that they're being expected to break...and is a violation of the feelings of the 'other person' in the relationship.

In a perfect world, it would be great to believe we could all help each other heal and move on.

Not realistic...especially not when you consider the emotions and conflicts created in an affair.

And the same applies to the scope of counseling provided by an MC or IC...it's pretty clearly laid out when you go to them...and expecting them to go outside of that scope isn't realistic either. They're paid for their job, paid for their time, and paid for their focus on the job that they're expected to accomplish.

Absolutely.

If you ever want to know why you got D, just keep re-reading the above. Just like during your M after D-day...your thoughts center around the OMM.

That's what I think is so obvious.

Its patently INSANE to think an MC would discuss the pain of the OP in session with the WS and the BS. That the BS and the WS should spend THEIR money providing counseling to the AP who ISNT there. Unreal.

Agreed!

What you are asking for is xAP-C. EX Affair Partner Counseling.

Lemme guess...for closure? TO help each other slowly end the R? No R ends well...ever. There is always pain and loss to some degree.

Seriously, that's just plain nuts to think that any BS would EVER tolerate xAP-C. Crazy.

And that's my opinion.

Yes, I agree. And I don't even think it's for closure. It's another attempt at keeping things going with both people in the situation.

I think the key word you used is CHOOSE.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Samantha0905

April 29, 2010

i wasnt talking about my "poor AP" here at all. im talking about the process of ending an A and then doing whatever it is you choose to do with your life.

If anything I was talking about myself and how I was left after dday, now realizing the difference in how much easier it is to emotionally handle things having a proper explanation and "goodbye." even if i didnt participate in that part of the conversation.

because afterall, an A is a relationship that spans a sometimes lengthy amount of time. i think that needs to be delt with and when a counselor either IC or MC says cut it off and walk away that it leaves room for question, doubt and hurt feelings on all sides of the equation.

if i were single and was in IC for some reason. i wanted to end it with my boyfriend or girlfirend...the counselor wouldnt tell me just to drop off the face of the earth and never speak to that person again. they would tell me to say goodbye for the mental health of both of us. cutting it off and never speaking is traumatic to people. how can a paid professional not make someone theyre guiding at least think about how their actions could hurt another person?

its about helping you grow as a person, to make the right choices and not hurt anyone anymore.

April 29, 2010

And the ex AP-C not a bit. theres a difference between exAP-C and giving a chance to say goodbye in a short conversation.

April 29, 2010

And the ex AP-C not a bit. theres a difference between exAP-C and giving a chance to say goodbye in a short conversation.

But haven't y'all done that a lot already? Lots of dragging it on and on and on? Doesn't everyone in the situation know -- betrayed spouses included?

I mean, I don't want to sound judgmental. You should do what you want to do -- but it does sound like you still want to be with this man. I don't know where your story is at this point. Is there still a reason the two of you can't be together?

In any event, all that to the side -- if you want to tell him goodbye -- tell him goodbye. Your counselor is not your master.

April 29, 2010

i wasnt talking about my "poor AP" here at all. im talking about the process of ending an A and then doing whatever it is you choose to do with your life.

If anything I was talking about myself and how I was left after dday, now realizing the difference in how much easier it is to emotionally handle things having a proper explanation and "goodbye." even if i didnt participate in that part of the conversation.

because afterall, an A is a relationship that spans a sometimes lengthy amount of time. i think that needs to be delt with and when a counselor either IC or MC says cut it off and walk away that it leaves room for question, doubt and hurt feelings on all sides of the equation.

if i were single and was in IC for some reason. i wanted to end it with my boyfriend or girlfirend...the counselor wouldnt tell me just to drop off the face of the earth and never speak to that person again. they would tell me to say goodbye for the mental health of both of us. cutting it off and never speaking is traumatic to people. how can a paid professional not make someone theyre guiding at least think about how their actions could hurt another person?

its about helping you grow as a person, to make the right choices and not hurt anyone anymore.

I think you are correct about ending it properly. I didn't get much of ending with my EA. It started as a 'break' from each other which seemed to go on forever. In the end I got fed up and requested that there was an explanation and a confirmation that it was over.....until I got this then I felt I was in limbo, bit like waiting for someone to die. Anyway, he gave me a verbal explanation and I was happy with it and I can now move on and accept it.

April 29, 2010

And the ex AP-C not a bit. theres a difference between exAP-C and giving a chance to say goodbye in a short conversation.

Your IC is NOT there to help you be a better person to others.

He or she is there to help you be a better person to YOURSELF, and then all the rest will follow; better decisions, authentic actions, happier life.

When you walk into MC, the assumption is YOU have made your choice, you are choosing your spouse, and they work to heal the marriage.

If you enter MC, not having truly chosen the relationship you want, your marriage, they will be of little help to you, because OF COURSE they will counsel NC! Contacting your xAP will ALWAYS be a huge threat to the marriage they are trying to help you heal.

If the IC and MC is the same person, that is a huge conflict of interest, IMHO. The only people who can do that and not lose a license are pastors and priests because their counseling is religion-based.

If you need to seek closure from your xAP, then do so. But most counselors I believe would reccomend against it, as they do a BS from contacting the xOW/OM. Why? It has the potential to cause you untold pain, AGAIN, in that you may not get the clsure or results you wished for.

Makes sense to me. No more pain of your own making.

April 29, 2010

i wasnt talking about my "poor AP" here at all. im talking about the process of ending an A and then doing whatever it is you choose to do with your life.

If anything I was talking about myself and how I was left after dday, now realizing the difference in how much easier it is to emotionally handle things having a proper explanation and "goodbye." even if i didnt participate in that part of the conversation.

because afterall, an A is a relationship that spans a sometimes lengthy amount of time. i think that needs to be delt with and when a counselor either IC or MC says cut it off and walk away that it leaves room for question, doubt and hurt feelings on all sides of the equation.

if i were single and was in IC for some reason. i wanted to end it with my boyfriend or girlfirend...the counselor wouldnt tell me just to drop off the face of the earth and never speak to that person again. they would tell me to say goodbye for the mental health of both of us. cutting it off and never speaking is traumatic to people. how can a paid professional not make someone theyre guiding at least think about how their actions could hurt another person?

its about helping you grow as a person, to make the right choices and not hurt anyone anymore.

I think you should ask your husband that you need to spend a week long vacation with OM for finally ending your relationship where you have enough time & space to give proper explainations & "goodbye" , so that you & OM aren't traumatised after this.

April 29, 2010

i wasnt talking about my "poor AP" here at all. im talking about the process of ending an A and then doing whatever it is you choose to do with your life.

MBEG, as gently as I can here, but you aren't getting it.

As the WS you are DENIED that - if you want your M to work. Because how much do you expect the BS to tolerate? How long will you mourn the loss of the AP? And that very process of mourning is FURTHER injury to the BS - not just yours but all of them. How much more hurt do you expect the BS to take? How can the WS work to repair the M whilst in mourning for the OM? It just doesn't work.

The WS has to be prepared to immediately drop the AP and at a moment's notice if the M is to survive.

Its the nature of the beast.

If anything I was talking about myself and how I was left after dday, now realizing the difference in how much easier it is to emotionally handle things having a proper explanation and "goodbye." even if i didnt participate in that part of the conversation.

Yes you did. You got your goodbye.

He clearly chose his M. You have at least one thread about it and more than a few posts too...

because afterall, an A is a relationship that spans a sometimes lengthy amount of time. i think that needs to be delt with and when a counselor either IC or MC says cut it off and walk away that it leaves room for question, doubt and hurt feelings on all sides of the equation.

Ok, I'll now speak out of the other side of my mouth.

If you need to mourn the AP, do it in IC.

And I'm willing to be you did and your IC said go NC with him. Is that a good guess?

Care to share your thoughts on WHY he/she might tell you to do so?

if i were single and was in IC for some reason. i wanted to end it with my boyfriend or girlfirend...the counselor wouldnt tell me just to drop off the face of the earth and never speak to that person again

Maybe. Maybe not.

Pointless really. Because you were MARRIED...making it an A and not an R.

Again...still centered around the OM and how unfair it is to you.

There are more actors than just the APs in an A.

. they would tell me to say goodbye for the mental health of both of us. cutting it off and never speaking is traumatic to people

Again. And doing the above clearly tells your H you values the feelings of the AP over him. Its not a bf and gf breaking up - its an A busted. Every ounce of emotion and energy you give to the AP is noticed by your H. How much more injury and insult do you expect him to bear?

Is it unfair to you and the AP? Maybe. But nowhere NEAR as unfair as what was done to the BS and other innocent parties - like children. What about their healing?

. how can a paid professional not make someone theyre guiding at least think about how their actions could hurt another person?

Like the BS?

Like children?

Like extended families?

Seriously...stop to excuse and justify the A and its aftermath. Thats what I get from this post anyway MBEG.

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