Pyro Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 One thing I want to know is how come I know losers who have nothing whatsoever going for them yet they have no problem whatsoever getting women to chase after them. I am talking druggies and alchoholics who have nothing going for them and on my view are not even good looking and are a complete scumbag towards women yet these same women chase after these men and forgive the worst kind of treatment. On the other hand I know good men who make a good living plus look good and yet when they treat a woman well she goes out of her way to look for the tiniest flaw and magnify it. They have nothing but trouble with women and if hey make the slightest mistake she will use it against him for as she dates him which in most cases is not long. I truly don't get it and it is something that is very frustrating to a lot of men in the dating world. and you really think its worth being frustrated over the type of women who go for druggies, alcoholics, and other losers? Not me.
Woggle Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 and you really think its worth being frustrated over the type of women who go for druggies, alcoholics, and other losers? Not me. For a man in the dating world yes. For men like you and I who actually have great women this is not a worry anymore but both of us have been single, To be fair female trainwrecks I know never seem to have a problem getting men either.
Pyro Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 For a man in the dating world yes. For men like you and I who actually have great women this is not a worry anymore but both of us have been single, To be fair female trainwrecks I know never seem to have a problem getting men either. even when I was single I did not lose an ounce of sleep over it. Dating can be frustrating at times but for every woman that you see who is attracted to a loser, there are 3 or 4 who are not. In other words, plenty of fish in the sea to not be frustrated over a certain group of women. Optimism and realism will get you a long ways.
gypsy_nicky Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 wait OP. Its kinda inconsistent. So are you saying you also dated the 'uglies'? So if you did, how did those end up?
Jerry18 Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 (edited) Yes, they are great at lying - I've been taken in by a few guys who I thought were genuine. You say that women who date players are dumb and gullible, but maybe these players are just really good liars Maybe there genuinely is something wrong with my attraction meter? I have no idea how to fix that... Alternatively, it has been suggested by my friends that because I'm not bad looking, the only guys who get up the nerve to hit on me are the players Maybe you should ask guys out rather than wait for players to ask you. By waiting for guys to ask you out, you're leaving yourself vulnerable to their player-like attraction techniques. How old are the men who ask you out? If they are over 30, and they're still not settled, then there's a significant probability that they're players. Edited April 29, 2010 by Jerry18
Ruby Slippers Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 One thing I want to know is how come I know losers who have nothing whatsoever going for them yet they have no problem whatsoever getting women to chase after them. I am talking druggies and alchoholics who have nothing going for them and on my view are not even good looking and are a complete scumbag towards women yet these same women chase after these men and forgive the worst kind of treatment. I think it is the same story with your typical party girl who has men chasing after her. She might be a loser cocaine addict or alcoholic and a cruel-hearted bitch, and even though she's not good-looking in my eyes, men disagree. These women to me often look plastic, generic, dried up at 25, completely empty inside. But to many men, they are hot and represent some sort of twisted status, so they are on them like white on rice.
Woggle Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 I think it is the same story with your typical party girl who has men chasing after her. She might be a loser cocaine addict or alcoholic and a cruel-hearted bitch, and even though she's not good-looking in my eyes, men disagree. These women to me often look plastic, generic, dried up at 25, completely empty inside. But to most men, they are hot and represent some sort of twisted status, so they are on them like white on rice. Maybe this is true. I am not a woman so I can't understand it from their view but it seems to me that these players that women love to bash come up with the most rewards in the dating world. Treating a woman well is not the whole picture but in so many cases it seems like a relationship killer if a man does it. If a man is a player it is probably because he tried treating a woman well and it backfired on him. Most players I know are that way because of these reasons.
Ruby Slippers Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 Maybe this is true. I am not a woman so I can't understand it from their view but it seems to me that these players that women love to bash come up with the most rewards in the dating world. Same for the female players. They get attention, dinners, gifts, money, great sex, favors, whatever. Treating a woman well is not the whole picture but in so many cases it seems like a relationship killer if a man does it. I can say the same from my point of view. In general, a guy is all over me when I am holding him at arm's length. Let him close and he gets bored and doesn't treat me as well. It seems to me that it's only when a man fears losing you that he gives it his best. As soon as he knows he's got you, he gets lazy and the fun is pretty much over. If a man is a player it is probably because he tried treating a woman well and it backfired on him. Most players I know are that way because of these reasons. And maybe player women use men because they're tired of being used. But repeating a crime done to you doesn't excuse it.
Woggle Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 Maybe the men you know are different but most men I know would love a good woman who treats them well. They would damn near give their right arm for it but can't find it.
Ruby Slippers Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 Maybe the men you know are different but most men I know would love a good woman who treats them well. They would damn near give their right arm for it but can't find it. Again, I can say the same of most of my female friends, and myself. Some of them, yes, I have seen say one thing and do another. They push away the good guys who really like them and gravitate toward the hot jerks. But I have seen male friends of mine do the same thing. They ignore the nice girls who are interested in them and would treat them great and pine over the totally unattainable girls who won't give them the time of day. It's not a men or women thing. It's a people thing.
Author Eeyore79 Posted April 29, 2010 Author Posted April 29, 2010 wait OP. Its kinda inconsistent. So are you saying you also dated the 'uglies'? So if you did, how did those end up? Yeah, I dated the "uglies", as you put it. I dated them because I liked their personality and they were decent guys. They weren't players, because women weren't attracted to them. What invariably happened was I would have sex with them in the beginning because I liked their personality, but it petered out over time because I wasn't really attracted to them in a physical sense, and we ended up in a relationship without sex, and then we broke up. Now I don't date a guy unless there's a physical spark - it sounds shallow, but I don't want to end up in another passionless relationship. Maybe you should ask guys out rather than wait for players to ask you. I am working on choosing guys rather than letting them choose me! The players I've encountered have all been in their late 20s; a few years have passed since we dated and they're STILL single! Again, I can say the same of most of my female friends, and myself. Some of them, yes, I have seen say one thing and do another. They push away the good guys who really like them and gravitate toward the hot jerks. Often players are players because they can be! They're extremely good looking or charming, and they gradually LEARN to be players because the opposite sex shows them they can be, because being desirable they have numerous options. People gravitate towards desirable people, and they obviously aren't aware of their player status until after they've been played, while the "nice guys" (who often turned out nice because nature did not give them the looks and charm to be players) get ignored.
gypsy_nicky Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 Yeah, I dated the "uglies", as you put it. I dated them because I liked their personality and they were decent guys. They weren't players, because women weren't attracted to them. What invariably happened was I would have sex with them in the beginning because I liked their personality, but it petered out over time because I wasn't really attracted to them in a physical sense, and we ended up in a relationship without sex, and then we broke up. Now I don't date a guy unless there's a physical spark - it sounds shallow, but I don't want to end up in another passionless relationship. you must be a decent woman then for giving those men a chance. You must have surpassed them looks wise (you must be attractive also since the players are gunning after you too). Looks matter a lot even if we humans try to deny it for a higher ethereal purpose.
EasyHeart Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 Yeah, I dated the "uglies", as you put it. I dated them because I liked their personality and they were decent guys. They weren't players, because women weren't attracted to them. What invariably happened was I would have sex with them in the beginning because I liked their personality, but it petered out over time because I wasn't really attracted to them in a physical sense, and we ended up in a relationship without sex, and then we broke up. Now I don't date a guy unless there's a physical spark - it sounds shallow, but I don't want to end up in another passionless relationship. This concept fascinates me. I'd thought I'd heard it all by now, but I've seen a lot of women on LS post about these kinds of relationships, so it's been an eye-opener for me. It also explains some of the things I've seen in the past. Can you (and other women) explain your thinking about this kind of relationship a little more? Personally, I have never dated anyone more than once or twice if I didn't think they were extremely attractive, and I'm not sure I even could. Is it just to pass time? To avoid being alone? Do you hope that someday you might suddenly become attracted to them? Does it ever work? I just don't get it!!!
Author Eeyore79 Posted April 29, 2010 Author Posted April 29, 2010 I guess the best way to explain it is that attraction is not purely physical for me, it also has a strong intellectual component. I won't date a handsome guy if I don't like his personality, but I'll happily date a less handsome guy if I do like his personality. There's also an element of novelty and excitement that creates attraction in the beginning. Unfortunately, over time the initial novelty wears off, and depending on his behaviour the intellectual attraction might diminish too. If the novelty and intellectual attraction fade, and there is no physical attraction to back it up, the sex just stops. I suppose the best way to summarise it is: If I'm attracted to you because you're handsome, you'll always be handsome, so I'll always be attracted. But if I'm attracted to you on an intellectual basis, that can wear off and I'll no longer be attracted.
Philetus Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 If you're not in love with a guy but he treats you well, is it enough? It most certainly is not enough. You won't be happy and you'll grow to resent the guy you're with who can't make you happy. Be honest with yourself and don't settle for something less than you want or deserve. If you're looking for someone, he IS out there.
Jerry18 Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 I guess the best way to explain it is that attraction is not purely physical for me, it also has a strong intellectual component. I won't date a handsome guy if I don't like his personality, but I'll happily date a less handsome guy if I do like his personality. There's also an element of novelty and excitement that creates attraction in the beginning. Unfortunately, over time the initial novelty wears off, and depending on his behaviour the intellectual attraction might diminish too. If the novelty and intellectual attraction fade, and there is no physical attraction to back it up, the sex just stops. I suppose the best way to summarise it is: If I'm attracted to you because you're handsome, you'll always be handsome, so I'll always be attracted. But if I'm attracted to you on an intellectual basis, that can wear off and I'll no longer be attracted. But, doesn't physical attraction wear off faster than the other kind?
Author Eeyore79 Posted April 29, 2010 Author Posted April 29, 2010 It's easier to make a mistake about intellectual attraction - you think a guy is someone he isn't, so you're attracted to him, then when you find out what he's really like you lose attraction. In contrast, if you think someone is hot then that isn't likely to change; your first instinct about them being hot is always correct. Plus, I've found that if someone isn't physically attractive I can only ignore that in the initial exciting stages of the relationship. When the novelty wears off, his lack of physical attractiveness becomes more difficult to ignore.
You'reasian Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 I posted another thread where I said that desirable guys treated me like crap and the guys I wasn't really into treated me well. In that thread, someone suggested that it's all my fault for turning up my nose at guys that treat me well, and chasing after those who lie and cheat, and it's all my fault for choosing the rotten guys over the decent ones. The thing is, the guys who treated me well weren't really desirable to me... they were decent enough people but not exactly a good catch... they were unattractive, uneducated, unemployed, broke, had baggage, or some combination of the above. Should it be enough merely that a guy is nice to me, even if I don't find him desirable and don't love him? The guys I desired were attractive, smart, career-minded... unfortunately that combination is attractive to most girls, so they tended to be players. Am I in the wrong for choosing a desirable guy? Should I settle for a less desirable man, simply because he's more likely to treat me well and not be a player? Is it my fault that the desirable guys (who seemed nice to begin with) turned out to be players? Most importantly, is it fair to assume that every handsome smart guy with a decent job is automatically a player? Is it impossible to find someone who is desirable but also decent? Why do desireable guys treat you like crap? I'm going to guess that you need to chase a guy to be interested in him.
Author Eeyore79 Posted April 29, 2010 Author Posted April 29, 2010 I don't know why desirable guys treat me like crap! In my mind, desirable = some sort of education and employment, not bad looking, and reasonably smart. I'm sure there must be some guys out there who are all of those things but who aren't players, but in my limited experience the desirable guys are players and those who are not players are either physically unattractive, unemployed, uneducated, etc. Maybe I'm just not meeting enough guys to find one who is a good catch but not a player! Oh, and actually I hate chasing - I want a guy who is emotionally available, and who has time and attention for me. I just don't want him to also be obese, broke, unemployed, or unintelligent.
skydiveaddict Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 This is the classic alpha/beta male argument. Women crave the excitement of the player, the "bad boy". They quickly burn out on a "nice guy" (beta male) because that edge isnt there. I will never buy the argument that women want to meet/date a "nice guy". It simply isnt true
EasyHeart Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 We use the terms 'player' and 'nice guy' pretty loosely around here. But I think the reality is that probably 10% of the men fall into these categories. The other 80% are just regular guys. I sometimes think women define "player" as "any one who isn't anxious to marry me" and "nice guy" as "a guy I'm not physically attracted to". And men seem to define them as "any guy who gets more women than me" and "me". But sometimes people are just in different places in life or want different things. I don't think every guy who doesn't want a LT relationship leading to marriage is a 'player'. He may just not want to get married. Or he may just be experimenting and learning about different kinds of women so that he can figure out what he wants in an eventual wife. Most times, you are going to date 3-6 months and then break up. That's perfectly normal because that's how long it takes to get past the infatuation stage. And it's perfectly normal and healthy, I think, to spend most of your 20s in a series of 3-6 month relationships, so that when you get older and are ready to get married, you'll know what you want and know how to keep another person happy.
Author Eeyore79 Posted April 30, 2010 Author Posted April 30, 2010 I tend to think of a "player" as being a guy who has no intention of having a relationship with a girl, and who just wants to use her in some way, for sex or experience or whatever. If a guy doesn't want a relationship, he should be up-front about it, because girls often tend to assume that a relationship is on the cards. But no, the player keeps quiet about his lack of desire for a relationship, because he knows it will turn most women off. If a guy just wants to experiment, then that's fine, but he should be honest with the women he meets. I tend to assume that any guy who hits on me and takes me on dates wants a relationship, and if he turns out just to be using me then he's a player.
Luv2dance Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 It most certainly is not enough. You won't be happy and you'll grow to resent the guy you're with who can't make you happy. Be honest with yourself and don't settle for something less than you want or deserve. If you're looking for someone, he IS out there. AMEN!!! You NEED that physical chemistry in a relationship b/c no matter how sweet and great of a guy he is you will miss that part. And I know it fades and won't stay the same but if it is not there in the beginning I am not sure it can be created. Wait for the man you WANT and who is a great guy! Or you will be 16 yrs in a marriage to a great guy with amazing kids, but wondering everyday if you can continue w/o the passion...sigh
Philetus Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 This is the classic alpha/beta male argument. Women crave the excitement of the player, the "bad boy". They quickly burn out on a "nice guy" (beta male) because that edge isnt there. I will never buy the argument that women want to meet/date a "nice guy". It simply isnt true But, do women want a 'bad boy' or just a confident one? I think it's the latter. Bad boys, for their faults, are assertive and confident and, IMHO, women like men who are assertive/confident in CERTAIN situations. That's why they go for these types of guys. Beta males (IMO) tend to be more laid back and don't take control when it's required or desired. They aren't sure enough of themselves and I think this really turns a lot of women off. They don't have power. Again this is totally my opinion but I think women want someone who can be protective, make decisions, in short who is a "MAN". I think it's the reason why women often don't like short men no matter what qualities they have. They're not perceived as having power. It's our job as the guy in the relationship to figure out when she wants us to be assertive and when she doesn't. Women like power, the same way many men like women who CAN (emphasis on 'can') be demure and submissive.
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