Eeyore79 Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 If you're not in love with a guy but he treats you well, is it enough? I posted another thread where I said that desirable guys treated me like crap and the guys I wasn't really into treated me well. In that thread, someone suggested that it's all my fault for turning up my nose at guys that treat me well, and chasing after those who lie and cheat, and it's all my fault for choosing the rotten guys over the decent ones. The thing is, the guys who treated me well weren't really desirable to me... they were decent enough people but not exactly a good catch... they were unattractive, uneducated, unemployed, broke, had baggage, or some combination of the above. Should it be enough merely that a guy is nice to me, even if I don't find him desirable and don't love him? The guys I desired were attractive, smart, career-minded... unfortunately that combination is attractive to most girls, so they tended to be players. Am I in the wrong for choosing a desirable guy? Should I settle for a less desirable man, simply because he's more likely to treat me well and not be a player? Is it my fault that the desirable guys (who seemed nice to begin with) turned out to be players? Most importantly, is it fair to assume that every handsome smart guy with a decent job is automatically a player? Is it impossible to find someone who is desirable but also decent?
prettybaby Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 If you're not in love with a guy but he treats you well, is it enough? No. He has to treat you well AND there must be mutual feelings. If you're not feeling it, move on. And don't settle for guys who treat you like crap just because you think you have feelings. If they don't treat you well, move on too.
bayouboi Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 Guys you're not interested in that treat you well deserve someone who IS interested in them.
Els Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 I honestly think you shouldn't have a problem, Eeyore... unless by 'attractive, smart, and career-minded' you meant a guy who looks like a model, has the IQ of a Savant and is a brain surgeon. How about the guy in sales who looks kinda cool, is streetsmart and is aiming to start his own business one day? Would that satisfy your criteria? Or the geek in IT who's rather cute albeit shy, brilliant and progressing well in the company but needs to be shown the ropes a little relationship-wise? There's a relatively low chance of him being a player.
Author Eeyore79 Posted April 27, 2010 Author Posted April 27, 2010 Yeah, the cute IT geek who's got an education and is trying to make something of himself would be right up my street, as would the guy who works in sales and looks cool. I don't require model good looks or riches, just an acceptable level of attractiveness, a decent level of education and employment, and no kids. But it seems like every guy I meet who is employed and attractive is a player, and the non-players aren't really desirable. Non-player guys I've dated include those who weigh 250 pounds and those who weigh 110 pounds, those who are unemployed and those who have absolutely no education, those who have three kids and those who have two ex-wives - I gave them all a chance because they were decent people, but I wasn't really feeling it. I've come to the conclusion that I want an average kind of guy - not fat and not skinny, not unemployed, not divorced with multiple kids and exes - just your average guy who has some education, some sort of decent job, and who is a normal weight and size. But every guy I've dated who fit that average mould has treated me like crap. My original thread was about having met a desirable "average" guy and being worried that he was a player, because in my experience all the desirable guys are. Someone said it was my own fault for rejecting the decent guys and chasing the desirable guys. That's why I was wondering if I'm in the wrong for wanting a desirable guy, whether I should have been happy with a guy who weighed 250 pounds or a guy who was unemployed and uneducated, just because they treated me well.
Els Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 Really, the IT geek turned out to be a player? I dunno then, maybe it's just the culture and community you live in? I've never experienced being with a player before. All of my exes were smart, reasonably educated (in college), and they looked okay at least... and none tried to hit on other women or anything like that. Then again, my personal opinion of 'looks okay' would probably be different from most people's, since I place lower value on looks than most.
Author Eeyore79 Posted April 27, 2010 Author Posted April 27, 2010 I also don't place huge value on looks, as long as the guy isn't huge or skinny or hideous; I just want average looks at least, because I wasn't happy when I dated below average. Although I will admit, the IT geek who cheated on me was exceptionally handsome, he could have been a model. I don't require that level of good looks in everyone though. It just seems like the unattractive/unemployed/uneducated guys are faithful because of a lack of options, and the attractive/employed/educated guys take advantage of the fact that they fit most women's criteria. Maybe I just haven't met/dated enough desirable guys to find a good one; I might have expected that the cocky sort of guys who approach me would be players.
make me believe Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 Of course that's not enough!! The love, romance, attraction, and chemistry HAS to be there for the relationship to be successful. There are guys out there who are hot, nice, have good careers, AND will treat you right. You need to hold out for one of them.
SouthernSunshine Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 If you're not in love with a guy but he treats you well, is it enough? I posted another thread where I said that desirable guys treated me like crap and the guys I wasn't really into treated me well. In that thread, someone suggested that it's all my fault for turning up my nose at guys that treat me well, and chasing after those who lie and cheat, and it's all my fault for choosing the rotten guys over the decent ones. The thing is, the guys who treated me well weren't really desirable to me... they were decent enough people but not exactly a good catch... they were unattractive, uneducated, unemployed, broke, had baggage, or some combination of the above. Should it be enough merely that a guy is nice to me, even if I don't find him desirable and don't love him? The guys I desired were attractive, smart, career-minded... unfortunately that combination is attractive to most girls, so they tended to be players. Am I in the wrong for choosing a desirable guy? Should I settle for a less desirable man, simply because he's more likely to treat me well and not be a player? Is it my fault that the desirable guys (who seemed nice to begin with) turned out to be players? Most importantly, is it fair to assume that every handsome smart guy with a decent job is automatically a player? Is it impossible to find someone who is desirable but also decent? Don't ever go for someone who is uneducated, broke, and jobless no matter how well they treat you! And no, it's not fair to assume that smart, handsome, professional men are players! My SO is all of the above, and he treats me like a queen.
123BeachFan Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 Settle for nothing less than a guy who treats you well, you love him, and he loves you.
Author Eeyore79 Posted April 27, 2010 Author Posted April 27, 2010 I guess I tend to assume that smart, handsome, professional men are players, because all such men I have dated have been players. But it's unfair to tar them all with the same brush based on my limited experience, I know. I'm trying not to think the worst of my new bf, because he's smart, handsome and professional... I'm really struggling to trust him because of my history, and I'm trying to work things out in my head
EasyHeart Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 Not all smart, handsome, professional men are players. Frankly, very few men like that are players. They may have plenty of options, but that doesn't make them players or cheats. Obviously, you should never settle for a relationship with someone who you aren't attracted to. It's not fair to you, and it's not fair to him either. You deserve someone who excites you and loves you, and so do the guys. If you're only attracting players and losers, you may be suffering from low self-esteem. That's kind of a classic situation -- women with LSE tend to attract narcissists and other people with LSE; people with high self-esteem attract other people with high self-esteem. And if your exes cheated on you or used you in some way, that would definitely make your self-esteem take a hit. There are lots of books about LSE -- take a look at a few and maybe it would help. No one can love you unless you love yourself!!!
alphamale Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 Is it impossible to find someone who is desirable but also decent? pretty much yes
Author Eeyore79 Posted April 28, 2010 Author Posted April 28, 2010 Hmm, opposing opinions here! So is it possible to find someone who is desirable but also decent, or not? EasyHeart, I found your post interesting - I think I do suffer from low self esteem, I'm not bad looking but I'm very quiet and reserved, and have been treated like crap by several guys. I always seem to end up dating either the narcissistic player or the complete loser, and I'm keen to change that pattern and date a decent guy.
carhill Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 I'm trying not to think the worst of my new bf, because he's smart, handsome and professional... OK, then don't and stop posting such threads. If I hadn't stumbled across this, I would've guessed you were lamenting your dating experience whilst munching bon-bons in front of the TV. Go enjoy your BF and shut off LS
sagetalk Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 My original thread was about having met a desirable "average" guy and being worried that he was a player, because in my experience all the desirable guys are. Someone said it was my own fault for rejecting the decent guys and chasing the desirable guys. That's why I was wondering if I'm in the wrong for wanting a desirable guy, whether I should have been happy with a guy who weighed 250 pounds or a guy who was unemployed and uneducated, just because they treated me well. I'm 6'0 tall, 29, toned, well educated, great job and I would rather gauge my eyes out than be a player. Guys like me exist everywhere, but players get all the attention. When you date players, or make it appear that's your type of guy, it's a massive turn off. It gives the appearance that your shallow and just want to be entertained. Most decent guys despise players and think any woman who would date them is dumb and gullible. I admit, players can be deceiving (they are great at lying), but if a pattern develops of every guy you like is a player, then there is definitely something wrong with your attraction meter.
4givrnt4gtr Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 Interesting thread. I think that part of the problem with the successful smart etc etc etc men that are players lack one very important quality which is humbleness. My opinion, look for a man who above all the "succesful" qualities, has humbleness...cuz otherwise, he is worse than the "losers" that treat you well but got nothing going on for them. Also, those who may seem like losers might surprise you. A lot of times those people who seem not so socially adept, or what have you have much more depth than those who are too charming etc. But overall, as i said...go for humble..they will never ever take you for granted.
Author Eeyore79 Posted April 28, 2010 Author Posted April 28, 2010 I admit, players can be deceiving (they are great at lying), but if a pattern develops of every guy you like is a player, then there is definitely something wrong with your attraction meter. Yes, they are great at lying - I've been taken in by a few guys who I thought were genuine. You say that women who date players are dumb and gullible, but maybe these players are just really good liars Maybe there genuinely is something wrong with my attraction meter? I have no idea how to fix that... Alternatively, it has been suggested by my friends that because I'm not bad looking, the only guys who get up the nerve to hit on me are the players
sumdude Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 (edited) Most importantly, is it fair to assume that every handsome smart guy with a decent job is automatically a player? Is it impossible to find someone who is desirable but also decent? No, FWIW I fit most of the criteria. A bit older (42) and divorced (no kids). Though I bet there are a couple women who think I'm a player because things weren't working for me and I ended them pretty quickly. Fact is I don't go around aggressively 'hitting on' women. I tend to be a slow mover, take a little time to talk and get to know someone at least a little while before going for the sack. I actually like the freinds first approach of course that can't last too long. I find often that a woman I may be interested in gets taken for a ride by the aggressive wham bam thank you ma'am types before I even get started. So be it.. her loss. When that happens I move on, not going to wait around. Edited April 28, 2010 by sumdude
sagetalk Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 Yes, they are great at lying - I've been taken in by a few guys who I thought were genuine. You say that women who date players are dumb and gullible, but maybe these players are just really good liars Maybe there genuinely is something wrong with my attraction meter? I have no idea how to fix that... Alternatively, it has been suggested by my friends that because I'm not bad looking, the only guys who get up the nerve to hit on me are the players Players give signs that are easy for guys to see, I'm not a girl so I'm not sure why you can't see them. I can usually spot one of those guys within a few minutes of being around him. A key characterics is that they are all selfish and usually treat others who are unattractive or unpopular badly. If you're an attractive girl, you'd never see this though. If you let men do all the approaching, then that's gonna lead to more player types. It takes a ton of guts to ask out an attractive women, especially if you are a non-player, less experienced, male. Players don't necessarily look better than non-player males, they just talk a good game (usually through lying). Start going after men who walk a good game instead. You'll find a great one that way .
Author Eeyore79 Posted April 28, 2010 Author Posted April 28, 2010 Players behave more nicely around attractive women, and tell them lies. The last one I dated told me he was shy and didn't go out much, acted kind of reticent about kissing, and had me thinking he was all cute and sweet. It turned out he was in an LTR with another girl and was messing around with me and another girl on the side, and he would go clubbing in Vegas with his buddies etc. So I guess he wasn't who he pretended to be! Maybe I should have realised he was somewhat selfish, because he didn't really seem to prioritise spending time with me, and wasn't overly friendly towards the more geekish people who worked with us. I'm trying to tune up my people-picker and notice signs like this! You're right when you say that if I let men do the approaching I'll end up with more player types. The players have always approached me and expressed their interest, whereas the non-players tended to be guys I got to know as friends first, and I was the one who expressed the initial interest. Hmm, that's an interesting insight!
Ruby Slippers Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 Alternatively, it has been suggested by my friends that because I'm not bad looking, the only guys who get up the nerve to hit on me are the players I think most women primarily get hit on by players, because players are the ones who have the balls to approach. Most of the men who approach me are attractive, confident guys who would not have a problem attracting a woman. The less self-assured guys hang back and shuffle their feet while the confident guy turns on the charm. I think that nice guys who are too afraid of rejection to approach are doing themselves and women a disservice by holding back. I want a nice, non-player guy, but I also want to be sure that the guy I'm with really wants to be with me -- and him approaching me and making clear that he wants to be with me is the best guarantee of that. Players give signs that are easy for guys to see, I'm not a girl so I'm not sure why you can't see them. I can usually spot one of those guys within a few minutes of being around him. A key characterics is that they are all selfish and usually treat others who are unattractive or unpopular badly. If you're an attractive girl, you'd never see this though. This is true for gold-digger user women, too. It's very easy for other women to see what they're after and how they are manipulating situations to get what they want, but the men who fall under their spell can't see it at all. Getting hit on by a very attractive person of the opposite sex can be exciting and hypnotizing. You have to take a step back and look at the big picture.
Author Eeyore79 Posted April 29, 2010 Author Posted April 29, 2010 (edited) Getting hit on by a very attractive person of the opposite sex can be exciting and hypnotizing. You have to take a step back and look at the big picture. Yep, this is exactly it. When a charming, handsome guy hits on me, I'm caught up in feeling excited and attracted and flattered, and I don't necessarily pick up on the little signals that he's a jerk. Just the same as guys are excited when a pretty girl is interested in them, and they probably don't analyse the situation properly either. I'm trying to re-calibrate my people-picker by giving myself more time before jumping into a relationship with feelings and sex and everything, so I have time to assess the guy and look for indicators that he might be a jerk, instead of just being swept away by his charm. I wish more decent guys would have the nerve to approach me. I'm working on taking back the power in my relationships; if a guy is a jerk or I'm not keen on him, I'll say no, and I'm trying to take the initiative more with guys I like who might be a little nervous about approaching me. Edited April 29, 2010 by Eeyore79
Ruby Slippers Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 Yep, this is exactly it. When a charming, handsome guy hits on me, I'm caught up in feeling excited and attracted and flattered, and I don't necessarily pick up on the little signals that he's a jerk. Yes. And they are the most determined to conquer you and get you to submit. These are the guys who have MOVES. They know exactly what to say to you, how to touch you, how to do you right all night long, how to make you feel alive, and like the only woman in the universe. And once they do, once you submit to them as theirs... game over. They're on to the next target. My last boyfriend -- oh, man, when he first started pursuing me, I couldn't help thinking, "Why is HE interested in ME?" He was gorgeous and so freaking sexy and talented I could hardly stand it. And he fixed his sights on me with laser precision. At first, I approached him with a lot of wariness and enjoyed the relationship mostly for the hot sex and great fun we had together. But the fact that I wasn't trying to lock him down as mine seemed to drive him crazy, and he began working very hard to lock me down. He kicked it up emotionally every step of the way. Then right when we got to the phase not too far from cohabitation and real commitment, he checked out. I'll be surprised if he doesn't continue doing this to women over and over again for years.
Woggle Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 One thing I want to know is how come I know losers who have nothing whatsoever going for them yet they have no problem whatsoever getting women to chase after them. I am talking druggies and alchoholics who have nothing going for them and on my view are not even good looking and are a complete scumbag towards women yet these same women chase after these men and forgive the worst kind of treatment. On the other hand I know good men who make a good living plus look good and yet when they treat a woman well she goes out of her way to look for the tiniest flaw and magnify it. They have nothing but trouble with women and if hey make the slightest mistake she will use it against him for as she dates him which in most cases is not long. I truly don't get it and it is something that is very frustrating to a lot of men in the dating world.
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