Wife happiest when we don't have sex

[GaLwAyGiRL]

We are coming up on 20 years together...

 

From my point of view, I have 20 years of positive sexual associations with this man's hands, body, lips, voice, scent....how could I not think of him sexually? (given that I have a sexual drive)

 

I agree with YGG that a man will LOSE with me if my sexual associations with him become negative (pressure, pouting, anger, etc). I strongly believe that my partner's patience and love at times when we've needed stop having sex for a period of time is directly related to my continued high attraction to him.

 

You are a VERY lucky woman!

[Whateverelse]

You ladies are depressing me; perhaps i just drew the short straw in life on this one; it looks like my choices are to go pound sand or find some other resolution

[xxoo]

You ladies are depressing me; perhaps i just drew the short straw in life on this one; it looks like my choices are to go pound sand or find some other resolution

 

So you are not going to talk to her about it?

[You Go Girl]

You ladies are depressing me; perhaps i just drew the short straw in life on this one; it looks like my choices are to go pound sand or find some other resolution

 

Naw...don't give up.

With women who completely turn off their sexuality while in a marriage there's one of two things involved--

1) They have small children. This can lead to a perhaps natural aversion to getting pregnant again, as in take care of raising the little ones, and perhaps, by nature's standards, is a good thing.

2) There is a disconnect with their man.

 

Number one takes some work to get them out of just mommy mode and to remind them of the special connection that is physical between partners, and to remind them that they are still a sexual being. Number two takes a different kind of work--and number 2 can be very complex depending on relationship dynamics.

Neither one of those is impossible to fix!

 

And I completely disagree that partners can't lust after each other for many years, even until death.

It's all in the mental health of the relationship.

[mem11363]

The way I look at this is simple. Constant pressure to have more sex than your partner wants is totally destructive to the marriage.

 

With that said, when we had a disconnect - and it lasted almost two years, we went into sexual maintenance mode. I accepted the bare minimum amount of sex I could tolerate - which was once every 5 days and she sucked it up and had sex with me once every five days and not only that but she made it very good sex - not bragging - just saying THAT is a high level of commitment.

 

Just to be clear - we BOTH perceived this as a compromise. She knew that I far preferred an every other day frequency and I knew that during that time period she preferred almost zero.

 

Thing is her issues during that time were that I was not being aggressive enough (in life) - nothing to do with work or money - just day to day aggression level was very low. AND I had gradually lost a lot of weight and was thin and she likes stocky/muscular. When we married 20+ years ago I was stocky muscular and had stayed that way until we hit this trough.

 

Now my view of sex is pretty black and white. As the high drive spouse it is MY JOB to stay as attractive as possible for her.

 

If she is turned off by something/or some things it is MY JOB to fix that as much as I can. In the meantime she can reduce our sexual routine to a bare bones deal. But if she chooses to just shut it down entirely then my reaction to that is that we agree to a defined period of non monogamy. Basically if she has such a strong sexual aversion she won't sleep with me at some minimum frequency than I think the fair thing is to totally remove that pressure - while I have a discreet affair until we reach resolution.

 

All this is predicated on the notion of being a great partner. Great partners step up. I didn't whine about our reduced sex schedule - in fact I thanked her for making the effort to fix the plane while flying it. She made the effort by having sex with me while she likely closed her eyes and pretended that she was with a pro wrestler :)

 

As for pressuring her sexually once every 5 days back then - I feel bad that we were in that situation. I feel bad that I let myself gradually lose weight - etc. She felt bad that her desire level dropped so much. She felt bad that I was lightly starved. As for resentment - we BOTH felt a little resentment.

 

Tell you what - situation reversed I ABSOLUTELY would have had sex with her at some maintenance frequency/every 5 days or whatever even if my desire level had crashed - just to not crush her with rejection.

 

As for Lizzies comment about sexual aversion. It is truly a very real problem and my opinion is it comes from being closer to someone than they want. Too loving, spending too much time with them, saying things like "I would never leave you even if ...., ...., ...."

 

Telling someone you would never leave them even if they really aren't into you any more is the ULTIMATE pressure. It is the ultimate - you can never get away from me no matter what. I would not only never say that but I never want to hear it.

 

As for the most important person in my life. It is obvious from how I act she is my highest priority - even though I carefully keep a certain amount of separation - just enough to keep things fun. As for me - she can't make up for a lack of sex with other stuff. I can buy an excellent dinner for $30 - so cooking for me - or cleaning or ..., .... doesn't make up for a lack of sex. The ONLY thing that would make up for her shutting down sexually would be her stepping up and admitting she wasn't being a committed partner and temporarily freeing me from my vows.

 

I DO blame them. Any man that thinks the path to romance is pressure, is going to lose with me. I'd kick him right to the curb. Arrogance and entitlement is right up there with go see a lawyer.

 

But then, I'm not a woman who is out there as the OW like you are. You, by definition, are playing it safe. You're the bad girl they want, and you risk nothing because as the OW you don't have to worry about not connecting emotionally long-term, it's simply not one of your goals anyway. You don't have to do the work of a long-term relationship to make it survive. You don't have a committment, and whether or not you realize it, it's one way to avoid getting hurt. I'm not going to disect any further your psychology on dating married men, because that's not what this thread is about. But I don't see one married woman supporting your beliefs.

[mem11363]

xxoo,

How do you handle "interruptions"? Are they caused by loss of desire or physical situations?

 

How similar is your drive to his in the day to day?

 

We are coming up on 20 years together...

 

From my point of view, I have 20 years of positive sexual associations with this man's hands, body, lips, voice, scent....how could I not think of him sexually? (given that I have a sexual drive)

 

I agree with YGG that a man will LOSE with me if my sexual associations with him become negative (pressure, pouting, anger, etc). I strongly believe that my partner's patience and love at times when we've needed stop having sex for a period of time is directly related to my continued high attraction to him.

[mem11363]

Lizzie,

So my wife is pretending she still desires me? She is an excellent actress. I am not talking about faking orgasm - I know she could get away with that. But the long loving "I want you" looks. The requests that SHE makes for sex on consecutive days when there is absolutely zero pressure from me. I have told her plenty of times that a 48 hour recharge cycle is ideal for me at this age and so when she gets into back to back to backs I think those are about her.

 

I have told her 2/week is really quite fine - she very often does more than that. And when I say fine - I don't mean that I tolerate it I mean that there is zero tension at that frequency.

 

I get that your experience has been a certain way and that the guys you have flings with by definition have issues at home. Why is it you are certain that NO ONE can make it work long term?

 

 

 

It is just impossible...

[stillafool]

OP, the reason your wife gets happy when you don't ask for sex is because she has started to view it as just another chore around the house. Sex is less work for her and it makes her happy.

[xxoo]

xxoo,

How do you handle "interruptions"? Are they caused by loss of desire or physical situations?

 

Our interruptions have been mostly due to babies. We both suffered through. My drive was low, but baby obstacles made the frequency even lower than MY drive.

 

It was really important to me that my H never accuse me of withholding sex during that time. I was very sensitive to any insinuation that I wasn't doing my very best dealing with my libido, my exhaustion, and the kids.

 

I remember a couple times I would try so hard to make a night for us (much more difficult with the second baby, having TWO little kids to get to sleep at night), and then the baby would wake in the middle, and I would just sob in frustration--and I didn't even want the sex! lol! I was just trying so hard to do it for H. When he realized the pressure I was putting on myself, he made it clear that he'd rather take care of himself every day than have sex be a "job" for me. He wanted to protect my passion. Yes, I was very grateful. And, oh boy, did I reward him for that when my drive returned!

 

How similar is your drive to his in the day to day?

 

Normal drive is well matched.

[mem11363]

XXOO

 

You have a great H. Really.

 

I was not as nice/understanding as I should have been when the kids were younger. :(

 

Now when stuff happens - like medical stuff - go out of my way too be extra nice/supportive non needy....

 

Your H sounds great. I DO think that the relentless drum beat of "I want more, more more" from either partner is a passion killer.

 

Last night - wife offered - it would have been 4 nights in a row - I looked at her - could tell she was kind of tired and was mostly offering to be kind to me so I said: "I am not some sex toy you can leave in a drawer and pull out whenever you get hot - I haven't gotten any candy, flowers or love notes on scented stationary for weeks and am not putting out until you start taking care of my emotional needs" She just started laughing - we watched "breaking bad" and went to sleep lying side by side touching.

 

I have been waiting a while to use that line.

 

 

Our interruptions have been mostly due to babies. We both suffered through. My drive was low, but baby obstacles made the frequency even lower than MY drive.

 

It was really important to me that my H never accuse me of withholding sex during that time. I was very sensitive to any insinuation that I wasn't doing my very best dealing with my libido, my exhaustion, and the kids.

 

I remember a couple times I would try so hard to make a night for us (much more difficult with the second baby, having TWO little kids to get to sleep at night), and then the baby would wake in the middle, and I would just sob in frustration--and I didn't even want the sex! lol! I was just trying so hard to do it for H. When he realized the pressure I was putting on myself, he made it clear that he'd rather take care of himself every day than have sex be a "job" for me. He wanted to protect my passion. Yes, I was very grateful. And, oh boy, did I reward him for that when my drive returned!

 

 

 

Normal drive is well matched.

[Samantha0905]

In my case, my ex was still verrrry attractive.. still is.. He's been with a woman for the last 8 years, who is about 25 years younger than him... I had an aversion towards sex with him.. I guess I just didn't love him anymore like a lover... but more like a good friend or brother..

 

I think that's what happen in most cases.

 

That's what has happened with me.

 

It is just impossible...

 

This I don't agree with so much. Surely some people do hold onto a healthy and, at times lustful, sexual relationship throughout a long term marriage? I sure hope so anyway.

[RobM]

I'll vote for impossible to always stay lustful over a long relationship, there are ebbs and flows, sometimes it's lustful, many times it's not. I think the best you can hope for is to enjoy the lustful times and make it through the low times.

[Cinnamon2000]

Like a lot of other posters here, I'm a middle aged man in a busy life with kids with a low libido wife in a low sex marriage. I've recently noticed that my wife seems happier when we dont have sex on weekend mornings (which is about the only window of time for romance in our busy lives). She appears more talkative and open and even flirty, if you can believe that, among other differences in her mood. She denies any difference at all. But its almost as if she views my not initiating sex as a show of my love for her because I am voluntarily choosing not to do something that I want to do (sex) out of respect for her.

 

Has anyone else noticed anything like that? For the women readers of this forum (at least those who would rather not have sex with their husbands), are you happier and relieved when you get past a weekend without having had to deal with the sex issue?

 

Have you tried in doing it a way or style that is pleasing to her?

[xxoo]

XXOO

 

You have a great H. Really.

 

I was not as nice/understanding as I should have been when the kids were younger. :(

.

 

Believe me, I appreciate him!

 

I think it helped that we were together 10 years before the first baby arrived. We were both prepared to sacrifice a bit, and the base relationship with really strong.

 

That "breaking bad" line is funny, coming from a man

[xxoo]

I'll vote for impossible to always stay lustful over a long relationship, there are ebbs and flows, sometimes it's lustful, many times it's not. I think the best you can hope for is to enjoy the lustful times and make it through the low times.

 

Yes, I agree Rob. But the lustful times are never far away...at least as close as my next ovulation

[mem11363]

I was just being playful - neither of us likes cards, chocolates (we both like chocolate but not as a romantic gift), or flowers.

 

And frankly she may use me as a sex toy pretty much whenever she likes. :).

 

I also think that Saturday when she talked about separating - that if I had responded by:

- promising to change / do anything to make it work - begging/pleading

- getting legalistic with her - telling her if she wanted a separation she needed to move out - which would seem clingy - like I was trying to make it harder for her to part ways

- attacking her/blaming her - which would come across as fear

 

If I had done any of that - we would have had quite a bad outcome. I think she would have felt more angry/more crowded and turned off. Instead I told her if she wanted space she could have as much as she wanted - I would move out. All said in a nice calm manner. And I pointed out I could also get a job where I was away during the week and only home on the weekends as a lower contact alternative.

 

And I ALSO started talking about sexual alternatives to our exclusive monogamous marriage. I absolutely 100 percent don't want to get divorced. On the other hand I have no interest in a celibate marriage - zero interest. If that is what we are going to have - then we can continue the best friend - friendship we have - live near each other - and find playmates who are attracted to us. I am not able to feel LOVED - the real thing - without having sex. She knows all this - still I think 7 days of silent conflict - followed by a half a day talking about ending things - created a huge spike in her desire level. Apparently some level of relationship instability - when it is NOT caused by a psycho male partner - can be sexually exciting. I don't like relationship instability - I don't like brinksmanship but deep sigh SHE does. So every once in a while this is what happens.

 

 

Believe me, I appreciate him!

 

I think it helped that we were together 10 years before the first baby arrived. We were both prepared to sacrifice a bit, and the base relationship with really strong.

 

That "breaking bad" line is funny, coming from a man

[giotto]

And, oh boy, did I reward him for that when my drive returned!

 

 

well, he is lucky your drive returned... my wife's never did...

 

I didn't really want to intervene on this thread... it just makes me really sad. I'm sad for the OP, because he is in a lose-lose situation. In a way, it's better for him not to know the reasons. I think he said it very well: she is a middle-aged woman with kids. She is a mother, she is not a wife anymore. You are a friend and she is not attracted sexually to you anymore. Sex is a chore. You might want to try and reconnect - and that might be possible - but then you will know that probably she is doing it for you. It's pity sex, most of the time.

Funny you said your wife is happiest when you don't have sex. My wife as well... I just want to scream sometimes. The spark's gone and you don't know why. You go and you are sad, you stay and you are sad. You don't know why this has happened to you. You are clutching at straws. Mate, I don't know how old you kids are, but my advice would be: divorce now, unless you want to stay for the children... or you can try playing frisbee, like our friend Mem...

Edited April 29, 2010 by giotto

[shadowofman]

What I don't understand is how a low libido person in a committed relationship can deny their partner satisfaction. If I lost all interest in sex I would expect my SO to get it from somewhere else. I would encourage it in fact.

[xxoo]

- still I think 7 days of silent conflict - followed by a half a day talking about ending things - created a huge spike in her desire level.

 

Sounds like the tension did create a spike in her desire. And then there is "make up sex".

 

But that cycle would be psychologically unhealthy for me. I couldn't handle it, and wouldn't recommend it as a passion aid. I guess that's why it is important to find compatible partners, right?

 

Shadowofman--I am actually not opposed to offering new partners if one person is disinterested in sex. I could see offering that option to my partner if, for some reason, I believed I no longer wanted to have sex--ever again.

 

But I think it is cruel to demand that option when the couple is going through a temporary low spot. Open communication will help reassure that it is a temporary issue. Of course, if there is no open communication, people can assume the issue is permanent and act in ways that create permanency (self fulfilling prophecy).

[Lizzie60]

What I don't understand is how a low libido person in a committed relationship can deny their partner satisfaction. If I lost all interest in sex I would expect my SO to get it from somewhere else. I would encourage it in fact.

 

This is exactly what I did.. I offered him to get a mistress.. .he was insulted at my proposition..

 

I still 'sacrificed' myself twice a week...

 

As far as 'lust' ...I still say it's impossible to stay lustful in a long term relationship... for the people who say it is possible.. then they are probably the only one in their couple who stayed lustful... although I KNOW it CAN'T be the same lust as the 'honeymoon' stage.. no way.

[xxoo]

As far as 'lust' ...I still say it's impossible to stay lustful in a long term relationship... for the people who say it is possible.. then they are probably the only one in their couple who stayed lustful... although I KNOW it CAN'T be the same lust as the 'honeymoon' stage.. no way.

 

The lust is the same. The major difference is the frequency with which the lustful urge occurs. If that need to touch, smell, lick, etc in year 20, 30, 40 is not lust, then what is it?

 

As for necessarily being only one partner--I don't follow your logic there.

[Jersey Shortie]

Mem, anyone that reads your posts can see your dedication and love for your wife and it seems like you are a really articulate communicator. From an outside perspective, she is really lucky to have you and maybe it's because I am not married but I don't understand not wanting to have sex with your partner. I think alot of us can learn from your posts though. I know I have.

 

With that said, OP you need to shake things up. And as a woman, for me, it takes more then back rubs or flowers. Those are by the book ordered predicitable communications but not very authentic. You need to find a way that is going to get under her skin. Also, it might be helpful if she goes to the doctors but I think this has been suggested.

[mem11363]

JS,

I feel like we are both lucky. Overall I think she is a great partner. I hope you find someone - you will make a wonderful wife/mother.

 

 

 

Mem, anyone that reads your posts can see your dedication and love for your wife and it seems like you are a really articulate communicator. From an outside perspective, she is really lucky to have you and maybe it's because I am not married but I don't understand not wanting to have sex with your partner. I think alot of us can learn from your posts though. I know I have.

 

With that said, OP you need to shake things up. And as a woman, for me, it takes more then back rubs or flowers. Those are by the book ordered predicitable communications but not very authentic. You need to find a way that is going to get under her skin. Also, it might be helpful if she goes to the doctors but I think this has been suggested.

[Scrybe]

I never understand this attitude. Is the wife entitled to monogamy then? So....a man marries a woman. Agrees to never have sex with any other person. She is his ONLY sexual option. Husband remains patient and just wants to have sex once or twice or three times a week. What's wrong with feeling entitled to that?

 

Hey....so there may be problems but why can't the wife give the guy a road map on what to do improve things?

 

Sometimes that doesn't even work. My wife has given me all sorts of things I can do or change to increase her libido but so far nothing has worked.

 

The only thing that works for me is to ignore her. Then she complains that I'm not affectionate and I'm not attracted to her. She comes on strong...we have great sex then I turn on the flowers again, the massages, the meals, the breaks away from the kids, extra chores....and nada. I ignore her....rinse repeat.

 

I seriously think she has no idea what she wants. All I ask is for lovemaking at least twice a week and let's have some fun doing it. I don't want it to feel like a chore. What I get is sex 2-3 times a month. Once really good - twice out of obligation then usually a 2 week hiatus until she's ready again and then I get the one night of great sex...rinse...repeat.

 

I've literally tried everything that women on LS suggest: Hiring a babysitter, date nights, random flowers and gifts, doing my chores and some of hers throughout the week, keeping the kids out of her hair, massages, "I love you"s, lot's of cuddling and non-sexual affection, talkingm, spending time with her, calling her to hi and to see how her day is going. Zilch. She's happy...I'm horny and frustrated. I try to have sex with her and she's annoyed...I'm no longer horny but still frustrated.

 

Before we had a daughter....not only was sex frequent but it was adventurous. Nothing crazy but more than 2 positions. That's right folks! 2. Position A: she on top. Position B: Missionary. That's about it. If I'm really, really nice and she's in a giving mood we MAY try it from behind....maybe. BJs? What are those? I love pleasuring her btw. I've even offered to let me go down on her - no strings attached. No reciprocation...just for her and we can go to sleep. Nope. Not in the mood. To tired. yada yada yada.

 

Sigh....

 

Sorry...didn't mean to hi-jack the threat. I know...I'm bitter right?

 

Lol!

 

 

 

I DO blame them. Any man that thinks the path to romance is pressure, is going to lose with me. I'd kick him right to the curb. Arrogance and entitlement is right up there with go see a lawyer.

 

But then, I'm not a woman who is out there as the OW like you are. You, by definition, are playing it safe. You're the bad girl they want, and you risk nothing because as the OW you don't have to worry about not connecting emotionally long-term, it's simply not one of your goals anyway. You don't have to do the work of a long-term relationship to make it survive. You don't have a committment, and whether or not you realize it, it's one way to avoid getting hurt. I'm not going to disect any further your psychology on dating married men, because that's not what this thread is about. But I don't see one married woman supporting your beliefs.

[Lizzie60]

I DO blame them. Any man that thinks the path to romance is pressure, is going to lose with me. I'd kick him right to the curb. Arrogance and entitlement is right up there with go see a lawyer.

 

But then, I'm not a woman who is out there as the OW like you are. You, by definition, are playing it safe. You're the bad girl they want, and you risk nothing because as the OW you don't have to worry about not connecting emotionally long-term, it's simply not one of your goals anyway. You don't have to do the work of a long-term relationship to make it survive. You don't have a committment, and whether or not you realize it, it's one way to avoid getting hurt. I'm not going to disect any further your psychology on dating married men, because that's not what this thread is about. But I don't see one married woman supporting your beliefs.

 

Of course they won't ... because most 'older' married women already lost their libido.. whether they want to openly admit it or not..