mem11363 Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 Tex, Well said. I also think that as the guy you need to really learn your wife's sexual circuit board. I could literally write a full page of bullet point items that turn my wife off and another page of stuff that turns her on. Deep sigh - I bet there are a few things I don't know but it is not for lack of effort. Not having sex is just .........SAD! I don't know how young your kids are but at a pre-teen age they can get up on their own, shower, dress, eat breakfast without parental involvement. A parent's bedroom should have a lock on the door and be sound proof. Sex should never be a bargaining chip. I'm ashamed of women who do that. The truth is if people want to have sex they will make it a priority and find a way.
Lizzie60 Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 Bad lover, bad father, not doing his share at home, not enough romance, not creating the mood, smelling, put on weight, indifferent husband...... Pick one, or feel free to add to the list..... Now put the shoe on the other foot, husband doesn't want to have sex with wife and then give me "acceptable" reasons for that???? What happens???? Men and women jump on the man blaming him for being an insensitive ahole, regardless of any reason he may have (all weak imo)..... So you ba$tards are doomed.. you're damn if you do.. and you're damn if you don't..
mem11363 Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 IME if you have a very unfiltered communication style in the relationship then you can avoid all the deception that goes on in these sexual conversations. The conversation is short and airtight if you stick to a script. As the high drive spouse you need to know two things: 1. Does making YOU happy make THEM happy? 2. Do they have a sexual aversion to you? Thats really it. The sad thing is that I think the most common answer pattern is not YES/YES. I think the most common pattern is NO/NO. Meaning they don't have a sexual aversion, they just don't get a thrill from making you happy. Which is a relationship problem not a sexual problem per se. So you ba$tards are doomed.. you're damn if you do.. and you're damn if you don't..
Luv2dance Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 My opinion is that real conflict improves communication, increases self awareness, and creates real relationship fear (in both people), real excitement and ultimately real passion. I have to agree and I'm coming from a non conflict, non passionate relationship! Great real life story BTW! IME if you have a very unfiltered communication style in the relationship then you can avoid all the deception that goes on in these sexual conversations. The conversation is short and airtight if you stick to a script. As the high drive spouse you need to know two things: 1. Does making YOU happy make THEM happy? 2. Do they have a sexual aversion to you? Thats really it. The sad thing is that I think the most common answer pattern is not YES/YES. I think the most common pattern is NO/NO. Meaning they don't have a sexual aversion, they just don't get a thrill from making you happy. Which is a relationship problem not a sexual problem per se. Again, communication is key, but it seems we talk less about sex with the person we are having it with...
Mercedes Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 If you are looking for a release of your sperm, than call it that. If you are looking for an intimate relationship than be patient. Unfortunately, I am a wife who does not like having sex with my husband. I do it out of obligation but I don't yearn for him like I used to. My husband is a very selfish lover. He only thinks about himself. After he's done, its over. I am dry as the desert. Why bother. Because I don't want to hurt his feelings, I just let him do his thing and I take a shower. Joy, joy, joy. Maybe she's staying on the couch because she does want to have sex. What kind of lover are you?? Are you selfish? Is there any intimacy. She is probably too nice to want to say this, like me. Are you a good lover? Any romance? How were you in the beginning? are you the somae way or are you boring lover?? Does she smile when you are done and want to please you or is she just happy its over with.
mem11363 Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 (edited) I always do everything possible - so she comes first. Always. Lots of foreplay. Foreplay that makes her feel good is nice - and making her feel good is at least half the fun. If you are looking for a release of your sperm, than call it that. . Edited June 13, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Luv2dance Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 (edited) Is there any intimacy. She is probably too nice to want to say this, like me. Are you a good lover? Any romance? How were you in the beginning? are you the somae way or are you boring lover?? Does she smile when you are done and want to please you or is she just happy its over with. This doesn't sound like you're being nice to yourself, how can anything improve if you don't talk about it? (or maybe you have and he just doesn't care?) Sorry, don't want to hijack but this is just such a sad way to be in a relationship. Edited June 13, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Mercedes Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 the topic was why she does not want to have sex. this is how i feel. i am slowly dealing with this. i am very resentlful however. i feel very used. i detest sex with him. its for his pleasure and not mine. he can not maintain an erection for more than 2 minutes. i don't even get a chance. so...why bother. at least one of us is happy. i have stayed on the couch. anywhere to avoid it.
xxoo Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 My opinion is that real conflict improves communication, increases self awareness, and creates real relationship fear (in both people), real excitement and ultimately real passion. I will agree about conflict being an integral part of open communication. But, ime, conflict is not necessary for passion. Just saying, mem, that while your communication style seems to work for you and your wife (although I'm not so sure about the 7 days of simmering conflict with no sex???), it would be a BAD scene for me. There are other paths to passion for sure, although our path probably isn't for every couple, either. Again, communication is key, but it seems we talk less about sex with the person we are having it with... Why not? I don't get it. How can you have sex with someone that you can't talk to? Or maybe that is the problem right there? (can't talk, and so sex dwindles)
Honorable_Venerable Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 (edited) How can you have sex with someone that you can't talk to? Or maybe that is the problem right there? (can't talk, and so sex dwindles) Perhaps because in cases like this there's a view that communicating isn't actually going to help. People may be more informed, more enlightened, after communicating but it may not actually improve anything. There's no easy way to say "I detest having sex with you", aftter all! Another thing is that people infer / make judgements on what you say. For some people (me included) saying to my partner "Can we try x?" is interpreted as "I'm kinky", and the other partner withdraws - communicating hasn't helped! Edited June 13, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Luv2dance Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 Why not? I don't get it. How can you have sex with someone that you can't talk to? Or maybe that is the problem right there? (can't talk, and so sex dwindles) I do think it's a good part of the problem for a lot of couples. You have to have a huge level of trust with someone to open up and be venerable when discussing sex, so if the general communication level isn't great IMO the sex commuication is even worse. For me personally, I was an OK communicator until I married someone very reserved who keeps his emotions in control, I didn't know how to deal with this so I just shut down also. NOT a good thing, but trying to get it worked out!! Trust me if I would have known a simple, honest discussion about oral would have allowed me to get it 15 yrs ago...I would have been Chatty Cathy.
Lizzie60 Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 IME if you have a very unfiltered communication style in the relationship then you can avoid all the deception that goes on in these sexual conversations. The conversation is short and airtight if you stick to a script. As the high drive spouse you need to know two things: 1. Does making YOU happy make THEM happy? 2. Do they have a sexual aversion to you? Thats really it. The sad thing is that I think the most common answer pattern is not YES/YES. I think the most common pattern is NO/NO. Meaning they don't have a sexual aversion, they just don't get a thrill from making you happy. Which is a relationship problem not a sexual problem per se. I strongly disagree with the bold part... I think that these women love to make you happy .. they do love their husband... they would do almost anything to make you happy.. sex is just NOT one of those things they would do though... they DO have an aversion towards sex.. not their husband.. sex has become a chore.. period. Probably the chore that is on the bottom of the 'to-do' list.. the chore they resent and will procrastinate
Author Whateverelse Posted April 28, 2010 Author Posted April 28, 2010 thanks for everyones observations. it isnt just about sperm release, the lack of intimacy is a problem; but with men with long-time partners, i think the two are interconnected. But I don't diminish the biological aspect; a man can definitely feel it if its been a while. I assume women don't have feelings like that; my wife does not. I haven't raised this in conversation for 2 reasons. First, i would like to think that after a couple of decades i can know what she is thinking w/o her explicitly saying it, by her actions and moods. But what i'm seeing from her actions and moods is what is troubling me. Second, I'm not sure i really want the answer. Do i really want to know for sure that this has been no fun for her for years and that it really is just a chore, at the bottom of her to do list? I think that would certainly take the wind out of my sails for anything romantic thereafter. Also, once it is on the table and explicit, would that embolden her into saying no more? I could almost see that being the start of the end of our relationship. I guess i'm of the view that some things may be better left unsaid.
You Go Girl Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 As a woman who has been married twice and known both the type of relationship where I couldn't find enough ways to avoid sex, and the type of relationship in which I never turned him down-- Make it a battleground and you will lose-- Threaten, coerce, antagonize, piss and moan and you will lose-- Don't learn what works for your wife specifically, and you will lose-- Apply pressure for her to be sexual and she will show you just who is the boss of her life. Aka, it's not you. If you want to make a war of it, it will be.
Lizzie60 Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 I guess i'm of the view that some things may be better left unsaid. unseen... or unknown... or misunderstood...
Lizzie60 Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 As a woman who has been married twice and known both the type of relationship where I couldn't find enough ways to avoid sex, and the type of relationship in which I never turned him down-- Make it a battleground and you will lose-- Threaten, coerce, antagonize, piss and moan and you will lose-- Don't learn what works for your wife specifically, and you will lose-- Apply pressure for her to be sexual and she will show you just who is the boss of her life. Aka, it's not you. If you want to make a war of it, it will be. That's why sooo many men just give up and end up having an affair.. and I don't blame them..
Author Whateverelse Posted April 28, 2010 Author Posted April 28, 2010 Don't learn what works for your wife specifically, and you will lose-- And what if nothing works for my wife - she's simply a middle-aged woman with kids who would just rather not have sex, with anyone, me included?
mem11363 Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 Lizzie, The women who feel this sexual aversion, how often do you think it is based on their husbands letting themselves go and how often do you think it is just that they are just totally not into "him" anymore even though he still looks good? I strongly disagree with the bold part... I think that these women love to make you happy .. they do love their husband... they would do almost anything to make you happy.. sex is just NOT one of those things they would do though... they DO have an aversion towards sex.. not their husband.. sex has become a chore.. period. Probably the chore that is on the bottom of the 'to-do' list.. the chore they resent and will procrastinate
xxoo Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 a man can definitely feel it if its been a while. I assume women don't have feelings like that; my wife does not. Yes, women can absolutetly have feelings like that. Do i really want to know for sure that this has been no fun for her for years and that it really is just a chore, at the bottom of her to do list? I think that would certainly take the wind out of my sails for anything romantic thereafter. Also, once it is on the table and explicit, would that embolden her into saying no more? I could almost see that being the start of the end of our relationship. I guess i'm of the view that some things may be better left unsaid. Just because it is a chore now, and on the bottom of her list now, does not mean that was true in the past or is necessarily true in the future. They two of you need to figure out what is going on now, and make changes. If she is unwilling to take your concerns seriously, and look for solutions that work for both of you, then you know you have a big problem. How old is your youngest child? Sex was a chore for me until each child was 12-18 months. Then it changed again. Don't underestimate the birth control pills! They can kill libido in perfectly healthy, loving women. Putting your head in the sand (avoiding conflict) never improves the situation. Don't let fear keep you from the communication that could ultimately bring you much closer.
xxoo Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 And what if nothing works for my wife - she's simply a middle-aged woman with kids who would just rather not have sex, with anyone, me included? I doubt this is true. That is not typical of middle-aged women at all.
You Go Girl Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 That's why sooo many men just give up and end up having an affair.. and I don't blame them.. I DO blame them. Any man that thinks the path to romance is pressure, is going to lose with me. I'd kick him right to the curb. Arrogance and entitlement is right up there with go see a lawyer. But then, I'm not a woman who is out there as the OW like you are. You, by definition, are playing it safe. You're the bad girl they want, and you risk nothing because as the OW you don't have to worry about not connecting emotionally long-term, it's simply not one of your goals anyway. You don't have to do the work of a long-term relationship to make it survive. You don't have a committment, and whether or not you realize it, it's one way to avoid getting hurt. I'm not going to disect any further your psychology on dating married men, because that's not what this thread is about. But I don't see one married woman supporting your beliefs.
Lizzie60 Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 Lizzie, The women who feel this sexual aversion, how often do you think it is based on their husbands letting themselves go and how often do you think it is just that they are just totally not into "him" anymore even though he still looks good? In my case, my ex was still verrrry attractive.. still is.. He's been with a woman for the last 8 years, who is about 25 years younger than him... I had an aversion towards sex with him.. I guess I just didn't love him anymore like a lover... but more like a good friend or brother.. I think that's what happen in most cases.
GaLwAyGiRL Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 I just didn't love him anymore like a lover... but more like a good friend or brother.. I think that's what happen in most cases. very true lizzie! also..Lust is a huge factor for men and women. How do you keep the lust after 20 yrs together?
Lizzie60 Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 very true lizzie! also..Lust is a huge factor for men and women. How do you keep the lust after 20 yrs together? It is just impossible...
xxoo Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 How do you keep the lust after 20 yrs together? We are coming up on 20 years together... From my point of view, I have 20 years of positive sexual associations with this man's hands, body, lips, voice, scent....how could I not think of him sexually? (given that I have a sexual drive) I agree with YGG that a man will LOSE with me if my sexual associations with him become negative (pressure, pouting, anger, etc). I strongly believe that my partner's patience and love at times when we've needed stop having sex for a period of time is directly related to my continued high attraction to him.
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