Is There Something Wrong with American Culture That Makes Dating So Hard?

[Yo-Yo]

I know that came off very "hater", but I get very frustrated, as a real person, about constantly being brushed aside for the dude with the Harley and the prison tat, or the dude with the Benz....

 

If you don't believe what I wrote before, just talk to any foreigner and ask them their opinion of American interpersonal relationships, dating in the USA etc...I guarantee that the answer you will get will be similar to what the OP posted....

 

It's different in the USA...

[Lakeside_runner]

Um... I'm a foreigner in the US and I've dated girls here. The only complaint I might have is that I haven't met anyone who'd be somewhat mature enough to start something more serious for the future. Everything was kind of day to day without any outlook. Well - it may just be me though...

 

My point being: we can't generalize and say that girls in the US are more superficial than girl in Europe. I agree - there may be some difference between girls who grew up in the western culture vs girls who grew up in Asia etc. but as far as people who grew up in the west are concerned - there are all sorts of people everywhere. There is a lot of nice girls in the USA!

[Dido]

Almost every person in this thread is guilty of ecological fallacy--massive generalizations about the character of all Europeans and Americans based on an insignificant and skewed sample population.

 

People have sometimes this idyllic picture of Europe perceived as small villages with butcher shops or bakeries etc. in reality it is really not so much different.

 

I find that this is true; I'm an American and have been living in Europe for almost three years.

 

I think that people are forgetting that Europeans who travel State side generally will be of a "better breed" and appear to be more liberal and well educated than the normal population. This is because people who come from a "higher class" are generally better educated and have different priorities than the general population. Thus, since traveling is easier and more available to them, you're only being exposed to a very small elite portion of a population.

 

The average population of wherever the country is they're coming from, will be less likely to share the same education, background and character. It would be rare for someone with poor education and a mid-to-low-earning job to suddenly make vacationing half way across the world a necessity. Like most people in America, glob-trotting is a dream and better left to those who can afford it.

 

This is the same with Americans in Europe. Most of the Americans and other ex-pats I've met are generally very well educated and of good character. Stereotypes and xenophobia aside, most Europeans find American ex-pats to be quite good company and generally better fun than your average country-bloke.

 

I believe this line of thinking follows the same logic behind the "brain-drain" theory--that all the best educated and most intelligent people move away from their impoverished countries to robust industrialized countries for more opportunities. Thus, creating the stereotype that Asians and Indians are smarter than the average Caucasian/African/Whatever.

 

From my time living in Europe there are the same amount of hicks, knackers, chavs and slags (or whatever term your use to put down people of a certain sort) as there are in your average American town or city. I can tell you that it's hard meeting people who are of a certain caliber in any country because the majority of people will fall way below the ideal.

 

If you're wanting to meet someone intelligent, insightful and witty--change your venue. Go to charity galas or political rallies. Start volunteering and giving back to your community. People who contribute in this way to society will usually end up more "worthwhile" in a LTR than the person who blew their pay check on beer and vodka. It's not an American or European thing; it's a people thing.

[sweetjasmine]

Almost every person in this thread is guilty of ecological fallacy--massive generalizations about the character of all Europeans and Americans based on an insignificant and skewed sample population.

 

Heh, whenever I read those kinds of generalizations about how much better and well-cultured Europeans are compared to Americans, I think of chavs, the BNP, and footy hooligans...

 

In all seriousness, though, I agree with you that it's a matter of where you're looking. If you're trying to pick up people in bars and clubs, you're not too likely to find someone who doesn't care about partying and who likes to discuss Aristotelian ethics for fun. Why would someone like that hang out in a bar all the time and why would they be open to dating other people they've met in a bar?

[Dido]

Heh, whenever I read those kinds of generalizations about how much better and well-cultured Europeans are compared to Americans, I think of chavs, the BNP, and footy hooligans...

 

In all seriousness, though, I agree with you that it's a matter of where you're looking. If you're trying to pick up people in bars and clubs, you're not too likely to find someone who doesn't care about partying and who likes to discuss Aristotelian ethics for fun. Why would someone like that hang out in a bar all the time and why would they be open to dating other people they've met in a bar?

 

It was great because as I was typing there were some junkie knackers outside my window screaming at each other. Gorsh, those European women know how to really deliver a good hit of smack to their hubbies deteriorating veins at any hour of the day!

 

I met my exSO in a bar. I'm not sure why it shocked me that 9 months into the relationship he was still spending almost every free night in the bar we met at. I had to go "rescue" him from drunken stupors after raging nights out. It wasn't as if he was a young boy experiencing the world for the first time; he had been partying a good solid seven years of his life at this point. I'll just say that I've learned my lesson there.

 

I can't speak for all women, but when I'm out at a club I'm not looking for anything more serious than a ten minute dance and a five minute chat. Considering people are hammered or on some type of drugs, even if they are intelligent and looking for love they'll still be slurring and all over the place. If I'm at a club, I'm there to unwind with friends. I'm not there to pick up extra baggage.

 

What I've learned to hate about this type of club/bar interaction is the entitlement that men and women feel towards one another. People thinking that the other should pool at their feet in a heap of lust and grinding. I have no doubt that you might have something wonderful to offer someone, but don't get pissed off if I'm not interested in you. I don't owe you anything more than the next person; if you want my affection and praise you've got to earn it. This goes both ways. I don't expect you to start drooling and meeting every single one of my demands after I casually buy you a drink.

 

This also isn't to say that I'm a prude by any means as a lot of the respondents theorized. I've got a specific taste when it comes to sex and if I don't think that you'll make the cut, I wont bother with you. I think that some of the guys might have neglected this as a possibility for their rejection. There are women whom have fine tuned their radar for partners who are into the same things they are. If anyone is rejected due to incompatibility, consider it a blessing because it wouldn't have worked out anyway. Some of these guys might have been rejected by a woman because they weren't sexual enough. It's hard to know exactly why these women wont talk to the OP and others because I doubt they haven't actually asked any of the girls personally.

 

This is why I find the common conception that American women are prude hilarious. In Ireland, American and French women are labeled as more available sexually and Irish women are labeled as the prudes (at least in the social circles I've be privy to). It's completely subjective and due to select concentrated populations, as I've stated before.

 

Oh and I can't wait to move to London this summer so I can witness the BNP in person and get stepped on by the footballers! Ohhhh yayyyy~~~!:bunny:

[Yo-Yo]

Hey Dido! Well said!

 

Gosh, do I have an intertube crush?

 

Just kidding....Great post, though

[Dido]

Hey Dido! Well said!

 

Gosh, do I have an intertube crush?

 

Just kidding....Great post, though

 

HEY STOP BEING SO FOWARD. I DONT WANT YOUR DISCO STICK, K?!

 

Thanks, I'm a long-time-luker-first-time-poster. NICE TO MEET YOU. :bunny:

[Don'tWannabeAWannabe]

 

This also isn't to say that I'm a prude by any means as a lot of the respondents theorized. I've got a specific taste when it comes to sex and if I don't think that you'll make the cut, I wont bother with you. I think that some of the guys might have neglected this as a possibility for their rejection. There are women whom have fine tuned their radar for partners who are into the same things they are.

 

What ever happened to "opposites attract?"

 

Do you notice it's the girls who have the "finely tuned radar" (or atleast claim to) who are the ones who usually get dumped or cheated on? It's is possible that "women's intuition" is a whole lot of BS?

 

If anyone is rejected due to incompatibility, consider it a blessing because it wouldn't have worked out anyway. Some of these guys might have been rejected by a woman because they weren't sexual enough. It's hard to know exactly why these women wont talk to the OP and others because I doubt they haven't actually asked any of the girls personally. :bunny:

Ummmm, SHOULD I HAVE?

[sweetjasmine]

What ever happened to "opposites attract?"

 

Um, do you really believe that?

 

This is how you described yourself:

Not to brag, but I'm slim and in shape, I'm tan, I own a decent wardrobe that actually fits (a lot of people have told me that before they heard me speak, they assumed I was European simply for the way I dress) I'm educated and informed on current events (I read the NYT and the Atlantic every day) I've traveled around the world (studied abroad a few times) I like to hang out in upscale establishments. I'm musically talented, and though I'm not wildly successful, I have a solid and promising career while I know a lot of guys my age are having trouble finding even a part time job. I'm even going to grad school.

 

Would you be attracted to a woman who...?:

- was overweight and not in shape

- didn't have a decent wardrobe that fits

- was uneducated and uninformed on current events

- has never traveled anywhere or studied abroad

- doesn't like to hang out in upscale establishments

- was not musically talented or talented in anything

- didn't have a promising career and had trouble finding even a part time job

 

Hey, opposites attract, right?

 

Do you notice it's the girls who have the "finely tuned radar" (or atleast claim to) who are the ones who usually get dumped or cheated on? It's is possible that "women's intuition" is a whole lot of BS?

 

Oh come on. Just about everyone gets dumped. And a lot of people get cheated on.

 

And are you suggesting that women who indiscriminately date anyone with a dick who comes up to them don't get dumped or cheated on? That women who are pickier get dumped/cheated on more than women who are willing to go out with anyone who approaches them?

[AD1980]

Allot of women out there have a princess complex and are on the defensive way too easy..

 

I was at a birthday party at this guys house last weekend and there was this girl i thought was hot standing by the fridge by herself..I asked her if i could get by to get a beer and asked if she wanted one..

 

I figured after she said yes or no i cam make a joke or something and see if it can lead to a decent conversation..

 

Problem was when i asked her she gave me a dirty look and just shook her head instead of politely saying no then walked away..

 

Like god forbid a stranger who you may not be attracted to asks you a question or tries to start a convo and breathes the same airspace..

 

What makes somebody like that? Are good lookign women that disconnected from reality that they view only certain guys have the right to even talk to them?

 

Hell i didnt even get to hit on her yet or anyhting i asked her a simple quesiton and she was already on the defensive..

[Woggle]

With all due respect you do sound like a snob. I am actually a pretty smart and educated person who can debate in almost any subject but many people assume that I am some stupid blue collar slob because I don't act prim and proper. I am also musically talented as well but I prefer to wear jeans and a T shirt unless I have something fancy to go to.

 

I can't stand many of those upscale establishments that seem more about looking good and flaunting your status than actually enjoying yourself. Also if they serve food it is usually served on a funny shaped plate and looks more like an art project than something you want to eat.

[Eeyore79]

I was at the bar waiting for an opportunity to speak to a girl, any girl, in my viscinity for like 15 minutes (a pause in a conversation; a girl coming in by herself; a girl leaving her girlfriend behind to go to the bathroom, etc) but it wasn't happening, so I finished my drink and went outside to have a cigarette before I left.

 

Lmao, no wonder you're not getting any girls! You're hovering around on your own, looking pathetic and waiting for an opening to chat to a girl. Why don't you approach a group of girls, or even a pair, or a group with guys in it - befriend them and hit on the girl? When a girl goes to the bathroom, why not befriend her group and get them to introduce you to her when she comes back? (her own friends introducing you to her is a pretty powerful tactic). If the girls are having a conversation, why are you waiting for a gap, why not just plunge in there and interrupt charmingly?

 

The reason you're not getting girls has little to do with them and everything to do with you. The longer you stand around on your own looking like a socially isolated weirdo, the more girls will be weirded out when you approach them. Girls want the confident alpha male who just wades in and hits on them. The women are not prudes or princesses, you just have no idea how to pick them up!

[Don'tWannabeAWannabe]

Lmao, no wonder you're not getting any girls! You're hovering around on your own, looking pathetic and waiting for an opening to chat to a girl. Why don't you approach a group of girls, or even a pair, or a group with guys in it - befriend them and hit on the girl? When a girl goes to the bathroom, why not befriend her group and get them to introduce you to her when she comes back? (her own friends introducing you to her is a pretty powerful tactic). If the girls are having a conversation, why are you waiting for a gap, why not just plunge in there and interrupt charmingly?

 

Do you really believe it's that easy? You really think I haven't tried?

 

Do you understand how catty and hostile some bar girls can be? Do you understand how easy it is to freeze up and run out of things to say? Do you understand how easy it is to get cockblocked or squeezed out of the conversation?

[Lakeside_runner]

Do you really believe it's that easy? You really think I haven't tried?

 

Do you understand how catty and hostile some bar girls can be? Do you understand how easy it is to freeze up and run out of things to say? Do you understand how easy it is to get cockblocked or squeezed out of the conversation?

 

Here we go again... bars...

[Sazerac]

Allot of women out there have a princess complex and are on the defensive way too easy..

 

I was at a birthday party at this guys house last weekend and there was this girl i thought was hot standing by the fridge by herself..I asked her if i could get by to get a beer and asked if she wanted one..

 

I figured after she said yes or no i cam make a joke or something and see if it can lead to a decent conversation..

 

Problem was when i asked her she gave me a dirty look and just shook her head instead of politely saying no then walked away..

 

Like god forbid a stranger who you may not be attracted to asks you a question or tries to start a convo and breathes the same airspace..

 

What makes somebody like that? Are good lookign women that disconnected from reality that they view only certain guys have the right to even talk to them?

 

Hell i didnt even get to hit on her yet or anyhting i asked her a simple quesiton and she was already on the defensive..

 

That reminds me of an incident long ago from my college days (some 26-27 years ago). I was at a college party, approached a girl, and asked if she wanted to dance. She looked me up and down coolly and said icily, "You must be DRUNK."

 

I was shocked, but recovered quickly, and just as coolly said to her, "I must be, to be wasting my time on someone like you," and turned on my heel and left. I wish I had stayed to see her face, though. Then I went and asked another girl, and had no further problems for the rest of the evening.

 

Now here's the kicker: that girl who tried to shoot me down, kept trying to hang around me the rest of the evening! I never gave her the time of day, but she was always there. For a nineteen-year-old, I learned quite a lesson that night.

 

I will say, that people like her are in the minority of most people I meet, and in general most people are open and friendly. Personally, I think it's the venue. I wouldn't look for a date in a typical club/bar any more than I'd look in a back alley.

 

P.S. the above reference to looking for a date was hypothetical, since I have been happily married for thirteen years and have no reason to change that status.

[tincanman99]

OK, sooo... I actually grew up in Europe (spent there 24 years of my life, came to the US 5 years ago) thus I feel competent to comment on that.

 

I agree to some extent with what you wrote above. However the difference is: if you want to interact with people in the US it is much easier to do so on a semi-deep level. By that I mean - yes in Europe people interact with each other on the bus to work or in local stores etc. but these are 2-3-5 minutes encounters and mostly restricted to small talk, nothing more. In the US, I find it easier to go one level higher. I'm a member of multiple sports groups (running, swimming etc.) and found these less socially strict here than in Europe. I think, in the US, it is harder to go a level above that and build a genuine friendship with someone. That did not prevent me though from finding people here whom I consider to be better friends than I've ever had back in Europe.

 

People have sometimes this idyllic picture of Europe perceived as small villages with butcher shops or bakeries etc. in reality it is really not so much different.

 

Where in Europe are you from? Are you from the UK? I have been in the UK and they are much more class conscious than in the US.

 

I am not idealizing Europe but if you are from there you know there is significant differences between countries. The Italians, French and Germans are hardly like the UK. I lived in Rome and I can say for a fact Rome is not like NYC nor London. A totally different animal and the Italian culture compared to the UK, you might as well be from another planet.

[Engadget]

Bars are awful to meet women, and I'm sure it's the same trying to meet guys.

 

I on the other hand always run aground of the woman with a boyfriend, who is attracted to me and causes World War 3 because she acts on it.

 

One girl I met at school, cool "alternative" chick with tattoos, piercings, etc. Is obviously really into me, but has a boyfriend and struggles with not screwing that up.

 

The other girl flirted with me, came onto me drunk and got her boyfriend to snap and them to break up.

 

This is my curse. I don't actively look for it, it just seems to happen constantly. Worse yet is I tend to like some of these girls, and then can't pursue a relationship because of the circumstances that follow.

[PJKino]

That reminds me of an incident long ago from my college days (some 26-27 years ago). I was at a college party, approached a girl, and asked if she wanted to dance. She looked me up and down coolly and said icily, "You must be DRUNK."

 

I was shocked, but recovered quickly, and just as coolly said to her, "I must be, to be wasting my time on someone like you," and turned on my heel and left. I wish I had stayed to see her face, though. Then I went and asked another girl, and had no further problems for the rest of the evening.

 

Now here's the kicker: that girl who tried to shoot me down, kept trying to hang around me the rest of the evening! I never gave her the time of day, but she was always there. For a nineteen-year-old, I learned quite a lesson that night.

 

I will say, that people like her are in the minority of most people I meet, and in general most people are open and friendly. Personally, I think it's the venue. I wouldn't look for a date in a typical club/bar any more than I'd look in a back alley.

 

P.S. the above reference to looking for a date was hypothetical, since I have been happily married for thirteen years and have no reason to change that status.

 

I was at a house party which is a more safe controlled environment and this women gave me a dirty look for asking if she wanted a beer from the fridge..

[Mattock5656]

OK, sooo... I actually grew up in Europe (spent there 24 years of my life, came to the US 5 years ago) thus I feel competent to comment on that.

 

I agree to some extent with what you wrote above. However the difference is: if you want to interact with people in the US it is much easier to do so on a semi-deep level. By that I mean - yes in Europe people interact with each other on the bus to work or in local stores etc. but these are 2-3-5 minutes encounters and mostly restricted to small talk, nothing more. In the US, I find it easier to go one level higher. I'm a member of multiple sports groups (running, swimming etc.) and found these less socially strict here than in Europe. I think, in the US, it is harder to go a level above that and build a genuine friendship with someone. That did not prevent me though from finding people here whom I consider to be better friends than I've ever had back in Europe.

 

People have sometimes this idyllic picture of Europe perceived as small villages with butcher shops or bakeries etc. in reality it is really not so much different.

 

 

I would have to agree with tin on this, because my family is from Germany and the culture has a lot of differences. The idyllic you mentioned is true in Germany, as there are cute small villages and many bakeries and butcher shops. Also, not to mention the turkish shops everywhere and the fruit stands they had in Nurnberg was great. In fact, Germany has 1,000 different types of breads and meats that you could die for, that is all fresh every day you go there.

 

There are some similarities but there are many differences especially in the culture. As tin mentioned its like a different world, and especially with me being a friendly person, I felt it was easier to spark up a conversation with people's friendliness. Although, I haven't been to big cities like Berlin but I went to Nurnberg and the southern country of Germany. Generally, most people were pretty cool. I'm not saying everyone was 100 percent friendly, but you do feel a different vibe as you walk around.