Maybe porn really does more harm than good for men?

[Woggle]

So now men are wrong for being faithful because it is not real in women's eyes. Can ever do anything right according to any of you. I have said time and time again that porn is a single man's thing and that when I am commited to a woman I mean it but it seems even that is looked upon as wrong. So men are wrong for being players but we are also wrong for being faithful. Can you please tell me what exactly we can do right?

[soserious1]

I never said there's anything wrong with it. I said it's not my bag.

 

I have a problem with how you portray it; it's all the menz, they are evolz, filling their feeble little myndz wiff tha evol pornoz!

 

If you want polygamy, have it; I am allowed to disagree, and I am also allowed to state that I think what you want isn't a relationship, more of a convenience for yourself, in having a partner to share bills equally, while going out and shagging any guy you want. Keep in mind, there are men out there that don't desire anyone but the woman they are with.... GOD FORBID that exist.

 

If you can find someone to fit the bill for you, fair enough. But don't paint a picture that polygamy is the advent of solely men, because of their "hard wiring," which we ALL know nowadays holds NO creedence.

 

 

I understand you've signed off here, simply dismissed me by hitting me with the "bitterness" club but you raised a couple issues that I feel deserve response

 

"I have a problem with how you portray it; it's all the menz, they are evolz, filling their feeble little myndz wiff tha evol pornoz!"

 

I never said that anybody was "evol" or "feeble " minded

what I am saying is that many men in threads like this one have stated that men are hard wired by mother nature to seek out young, fertile women and to mate with as many of them as possible. If this is indeed true, if this trait is wired into us then monogamy is for all practical purposes a losing game...on BOTH sides of the male/female equation.

 

"I think what you want isn't a relationship, more of a convenience for yourself, in having a partner to share bills equally, while going out and shagging any guy you want. Keep in mind, there are men out there that don't desire anyone but the woman they are with.... GOD FORBID that exist"

 

Who doesn't want a relationship that flows easily and meets their needs? Who doesn't desire "convenience" ?

 

You make it sound as if I was going to use some poor lovesick man to pay half of our shared expenses duping him into believing that I am sexually exclusive with him. Such would not be the case, the openness of the relationship would be crystal clear long before either of us dropped our pants for the 1st time. The man would also be desiring an open relationship. I would not seek out a partner who professed to want a traditional, closed relationship now would I lie to such a man about my intentions.

 

If you and any other man want traditional monogamy, good for you, I hope it works for you, I really do. It just doesn't work for me.

[Stockalone]

Of course they will be curious. But that doesn't mean it doesn't infleunec their idea of sex and women. And boys grow up to be men. Stastically, most boys start viewing porn at about 11 years old. That is alot of formative years a man spends lookign at images of women that aren't exactly very positive for women or what real sex and relationshisp should be like.

 

If kids are looking at porn, that is a problem. They also shouldn't drink or smoke or use other drugs.

 

And just like you try to prevent a kid from drinking, smoking, doing drugs, you can try to prevent them from looking at porn.

 

At the very least, you can educate them and hope they remeber those lessons when the time comes.

 

 

I have been with a number of men that have tried very porn-like moves on me and they though this made them good exciting lovers. I just ended up feeling cold after it all because I am a human being. And I don't want to be treated like crap or see other women treated like crap. Sue me. It's too bad that most men don't seem to mind seeing women treated like crap for their sexual enjoyment.

 

That would depend on where you draw the line. Obviously, if you feel treated like crap, you should dump the guy.

 

Nobody says you have to endure things you consider demeaning. But what is demeaning and what is not? We can't answer that for everyone else.

 

There is a lot of porn I think is . I don't want to watch certain things and I also won't do certain things in real life.

 

 

I think we see alot of how culture today is influenced by things like porn where it's now common to shave your private bits and do anal where that was never common before. Men have expectations about women that they never had before and I think alot of that has to do with the industry. Becaues men buy into the industry on some level. they know it's fantasy but it doesn't stop them from wanting or asking their female partners to be or act more like something they saw in a porno.

 

I am not into shaving my private parts and I am also not interested in anal play. Watching porn hasn't made me like these or some other things.

 

I am also not into casual sex. Additionally, I don't drink and I don't smoke, and I don't do other drugs either. That is my choice. I managed just fine not to do things other people do if I determine that is not something I am interested in.

 

You make it sound like we have no free will and just do everything we see in porn without thinking about whether or not this is actually something we want.

 

Have expectations changed? I am sure they have, but for both genders, not only for one. But this isn't just because of porn. Men and women are under pressure from various sources.

 

 

Look at the world around you and society. how many men and young boys do you really think truly believe that deep in their hearts? You can give it lip service and that's the right thing to say but I don't think it's what men really believe.

 

I am responsible for my own beliefs and actions, not those of other men.

 

What I do see when I take a look around, is my friends being in LTR and/or getting married. I don't know about their porn use or if that is an issue in their relationships or not.

 

I have also seen some guys having one casual sexual relationship after the other, despite the fact that they think that women are good for only one thing.

 

Those guys seem to do just fine despite their attitude. Apparently, many women don't care about it. Either that or they are stupid. I think they don't care.

 

 

I am so sick and tired of men not caring about this. And men don't care because it's not their gender being degraded most of the time. And it's not their gender being called four letter words and used. But it certainly is women that are.

 

I don't understand in what way I should care and about what specifically? Aren't women capable of looking after themselves?

 

If you date a guy who treats you without respect, you dump him. Problem solved.

 

Or are you talking about your concerns about porn who fall on deaf ears? I have no problem with a woman like yourself who is against porn. That is your right and you have your reasons. There is nothing wrong with that. But you have to understand that not everyone will agree with you.

 

 

And all the good little women at home are just expect to shut up and let him be a *man* and enjoy getting off to using women all the while stroking his ego and telling him he really does respect women even though he sure does love to see the 18 year old school girl get bent over a desk while his wife is feeding his kids supper.

 

I don't think women who have a problem with their man watching porn should just shut up. They should tell him how they feel and also let him know what is not acceptable in their opinion.

 

But couples should talk about all that before they are married and have kids.

 

I don't know if you are exaggerating on purpose or if you really believe all men have no love, respect and desire for the women they chose to be with. I hope you don't really believe that.

[Bejita463]

I think that when you catch somebody pants down, hands on sex organs in front of a computer monitor displaying a picture of a naked person that you can safely assume the one with the pants down is experiencing "desire"

 

I don't agree with that, actually, but that is aside the point. I was just speaking generally, as I believe you were when you said "desiring others is normal." I wasn't speaking directly about porn.

 

Arguing about porn makes about as much sense as arguing about religion. It comes to the same conclusion; irritates everyone involved, and convinces no one of anything they didn't already think to begin with.

[soserious1]

So now men are wrong for being faithful because it is not real in women's eyes. Can ever do anything right according to any of you. I have said time and time again that porn is a single man's thing and that when I am commited to a woman I mean it but it seems even that is looked upon as wrong. So men are wrong for being players but we are also wrong for being faithful. Can you please tell me what exactly we can do right?

 

Judging from many responses I've seen in this thread and others like it porn isn't just a "single man's thing" but is increasingly an every man thing. Women who object to this are told, not in any particular order the following.

 

1. You're just insecure better get over it or he'll dump you

 

2. if you took care of yourself better, lost weight and exercised he wouldn't need porn.

 

3. if you shaved, did anal regularly and begged him to finish with a money shot then he wouldn't turn to porn

 

4. Men are hard wired to be visual and to seek out as many young, fertile women as possible to mate with.

IE: it's a noble, hard sacrifice they're making when they agree to be monogamous, women should express gratitude for this and pretend not to notice porn, bills for the strip club or a husband who double and triple takes on young women out on the streets.

 

Finally, my particular favorite "you should be grateful he's just sitting at home watching porn, he could be out there screwing other women"

 

All I'm saying is this, for me game over. I will only go into a relationship with the understanding that it is totally natural and normal that after a period of time we will be attracted to and desires of sexual intimacy with others, that variety is the spice of life. We will both be free to date/bed others openly, honestly and without reproach on either side.

Edited April 30, 2010 by soserious1

[ComeUndone]

That's fair, and to be honest, I don't really care what your heart desires, I am telling you what I gather from the venom and bitterness in your posts. Just read it. Seriously. Think about it.

 

This type of self righteous bitterness gets you nowhere but alone.

 

Another woman that equates porn use to cheating, I assume.

 

NEWSFLASH.

 

Most guys will watch porn because they are either afraid to ask a girl to do things they desire, OR, the girl is close minded and won't try it.

I am soooo done with all this porn=cheating "I'm playing second fiddle!" bullsh*t. Grow a set, get over it, and move on.

 

Sure, maybe some guys watch porn for these reasons, but there are MANY men watching porn that do have SO's that aren't "close minded" and unwilling to try new things. Furthermore, if men are afraid to ask, then what are us women supposed to do? Read minds? FYI, many of us ARE second fiddle to porn.

[Ruby Slippers]

Can you please tell me what exactly we can do right?

Some of you are pretty good at home improvement projects.

 

Seriously, though, I think what we're getting at here is that we would appreciate honesty. I would much rather know the truth about a man and his sexuality than hear a bunch of sugar-coated lies that I can see through anyway. That just insults my intelligence.

[sally4sara]

Do you deny that women are told that we should be grateful our men are merely viewing porn, that it could be worse, "he could be out there sleeping with other women" ?

 

Well all I'm saying is that pony don't trot anymore for me, as far as I'm concerned he can sleep with anyone he'd like

then I don't have to sit there and be "grateful" anymore

He gets what he wants, I get relief from the burden of having to be so, so grateful all the time:)

 

I use to not deal well with gratitude; family stuff.

 

But I AM grateful to my husband. He brings many wonderful things to my life. I feel he is grateful too. I have learned it can be nice. I enjoy expressing gratitude and having it expressed to me. I guess what I'm saying is, no you don't have to be grateful to anyone with your decision. But you don't get to be grateful to anyone with it either.

 

Sure yeah, either of us could be out screwing other people - it is not something only he could act on. So really, this statement is a BS one and one intended to elicit complicity. Fall for it or not, but you gotta buy into it for it to have that effect. I think it would only get a "and he better be grateful I'm not out boffing the Nationals team" kind of response.

[You'reasian]

I don't feel loved and desired in a traditional monogamous relationship. I feel like a sexual chore and I also feel further burdened in that I've got to sit there and lavish praise on a man simply because he hasn't actually acted out his desires with other women and because he's using porn to help him make that horrible, horrible sacrifice of confining his actual sex acts only to me.

 

I don't find that sort of "sacrifice" to be appealing to me on any level, nor do I find a man's mere physical fidelity

worth the price paid for it by either of us.

 

Excellent post because you're being honest.

 

I get the impression women end up feeling trapped; they want to have the ability to be with another man but feel they should maintain their monogamous status.

 

If every man could get into the head of Cyndi Lauper and Madonna, he would never be dateless, nor enter into relationships that he doesn't want to...

Edited May 1, 2010 by You'reasian

[Woggle]

Some of you are pretty good at home improvement projects.

 

Seriously, though, I think what we're getting at here is that we would appreciate honesty. I would much rather know the truth about a man and his sexuality than hear a bunch of sugar-coated lies that I can see through anyway. That just insults my intelligence.

 

I mean it when I say I am faithful. How is that insulting your intelligence. Do you feel that any man who is faithful is not being honest?

[Ruby Slippers]

I mean it when I say I am faithful. How is that insulting your intelligence. Do you feel that any man who is faithful is not being honest?

Actually, on the subject of porn, you sound like a rare exception to the rule.

 

But I have seen more than one post from you talking about how you think being a player might be a better idea than staying loyal to your wife.

 

If a man wants to be a player, fine. Just be honest about it.

[Woggle]

Actually, on the subject of porn, you sound like a rare exception to the rule.

 

But I have seen more than one post from you talking about how you think being a player might be a better idea than staying loyal to your wife.

 

If a man wants to be a player, fine. Just be honest about it.

 

I just get frustrated because women claim to want a man who is faithful and won't betray them but as evidenced by this thread that is wrong now. I wonder what the hell do women want anymore? It seems that for men you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

I don't want to be a player but I don't want being loyal to my wife to blow up in my face either. I would feel like an idiot if I were loyal and faithful to my wife only to end up like so many men you posting on here.

[dreamingoftigers]

I want a guy who is faithful and won't betray me. I would like our life and sex life to be just the two of us. I don't want to take a backseat to streaming video whores on my couch every night.

 

I think one person on the thread somewhat bashed faithfulness and she is not a monogamous person herself.

 

What do women want? Ask that particular woman. We aren't all extensions of the same gender-object.

 

What do men want? Some want a healthy family, others want to play around, some just want to play with themselves. They are all different too. Some want to play with other men. Every guy is different just like every girl is different.

 

Me, I want the family and the connectedness.

[Woggle]

For the record when I said that I envied my friend it is because I respect his freedom. He is never crying about a woman that cheated on him with scum when he treated her like gold and he is never wondering why she doesn't love him. All in all he has a good life and as much as women call him scum they treat him a whole lot better than they treat the nice guys. There are times when I wonder if my life would be easier if I lived his life but then I remember that my player stage got boring very quick. I don't have the patience to deal with women who love to be abused even if they are just toys. The drama just got nerve wracking.

 

I don't find monogamy constraining but this constant lack of trust and wondering if my wife will betray me and if I will end up like so many other man drives me up the wall. I like piece of mind.

[dreamingoftigers]

It's kind of funny because I totally look at it from the exact opposite end of the spectrum. I think people that haven't been cheated on are far more likely to be the cheaters. They only know they want the temporary rush and "it doesn't mean anything" but they have no clue what they do to their SOs. I will never cheat. I thought that before all of my train-wreck marriage happened, but now I know. No one will be so desirable for me to lower my standards that far and cause that much pain, even to someone who keeps dishing it out to me.

 

I guess it is just like any other high-risk investment. In a relationship, you can lose, big. It doesn't mean investing is flawed, it could just be the market, or what you are investing in.

[dreamingoftigers]

For the record when I said that I envied my friend it is because I respect his freedom. He is never crying about a woman that cheated on him with scum when he treated her like gold and he is never wondering why she doesn't love him. All in all he has a good life and as much as women call him scum they treat him a whole lot better than they treat the nice guys. There are times when I wonder if my life would be easier if I lived his life but then I remember that my player stage got boring very quick. I don't have the patience to deal with women who love to be abused even if they are just toys. The drama just got nerve wracking.

 

I don't find monogamy constraining but this constant lack of trust and wondering if my wife will betray me and if I will end up like so many other man drives me up the wall. I like piece of mind.

 

I think you meant peace of mind

I get piece of mind in my marriage all the time

[Skump]

Maybe women just want men to fuel that sexual energy away from porn, and into improving their skills with them, chasing them, and wooing them?

 

The widespread, anachronistic expectation that women deserve to be "chased" is a far bigger impediment to relationship satisfaction than porn is or will ever be.

 

That mindset was acceptable (if questionable) when it was counterbalanced by practical factors that made it imperative for a woman to marry before her late twenties. Now, it's deeply maladaptive: Self-sufficiency has reduced the pressure to commit, while romantic idealization of being the object of pursuit has kept women passive and playing hard to get, effectively making them "pickier" than they ought sensibly to be.

 

The problem is that men, especially desirable men, are beginning to catch on to this. Law/Medicine/Business Ivy Leaguers like yours truly have begun to realize that we can get a better deal in a woman once we've hit ~30 and established ourselves in a high paying career - i.e., when we have the better cards. So, we just play around during our twenties. Then we go after the girls in their early to mid twenties, and we get them.

 

Oh, those girls who waited around until 30+ for that white knight? Sh*t out of luck.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Skump

[Woggle]

I want a guy who is faithful and won't betray me. I would like our life and sex life to be just the two of us. I don't want to take a backseat to streaming video whores on my couch every night.

 

I think one person on the thread somewhat bashed faithfulness and she is not a monogamous person herself.

 

What do women want? Ask that particular woman. We aren't all extensions of the same gender-object.

 

What do men want? Some want a healthy family, others want to play around, some just want to play with themselves. They are all different too. Some want to play with other men. Every guy is different just like every girl is different.

 

Me, I want the family and the connectedness.

 

 

I have been cheated on myself and that is why I will never do it. I hate betrayal in any form. It is the lowest thing you can do to a person.

[SarahRose]

Sally,

 

The issue that I find demeaning, shaming if you will is the entire concept of monogamy. Having to buy into the idea

that a man is going to have to "sacrifice" in order to remain faithful in body only to me ,is pretty shameful and demeaning.

 

I far prefer total, blunt honesty "yeah I'll fsck you but I'd much rather be fscking that 22 yr old if she'd let me"

 

That I can cope quite well with, in that situation I'd much rather have a man I'm involved with pursue that 22 yr old and bed her if she'll let him rather than having him sit there filling his eyes with her for an hour in order to come to my bed and try to muster up enough energy to try to

pretend to be interested in what I've got to offer.

 

Why not simply agree that both parties are free to eat wherever they get their appetites ? Why must we carry on the sham of monogamy?

 

Do you think the men would appreciate the same honesty?

 

The yeah I would rather fcik the hot surfer guy than your flabby paunchy balding arse.

[Woggle]

I actually do respect honesty from women. I have a few women flat out tell me they hated men and I respected them for coming out and saying it. I know a misandrist when I see one yet very few women will come out and say they are.

[Skump]

Why not simply agree that both parties are free to eat wherever they get their appetites ? Why must we carry on the sham of monogamy?

 

There are millions and millions of people who want to be in monogamous relationships. Do you really think young, attractive, successful men have a lot of trouble getting NSA sex? Yet many of the same actively seek out monogamous relationships.

[soserious1]

There are millions and millions of people who want to be in monogamous relationships. Do you really think young, attractive, successful men have a lot of trouble getting NSA sex? Yet many of the same actively seek out monogamous relationships.

 

Because there are, for many people perceived advantages in monogamy that don't include sex.Keep in mind that marrying out of romantic love is a relatively new concept in the history of the world. People routinely used to marry for scads of very practical reasons and while lip service might have been paid to the concept of fidelity at the church, in practice folks in such marriages quite frequently had partners on the side.

 

My point about monogamy quite simply is that we are biologically wired to stick around with a partner for about 4 yrs, long enough to produce and rear an infant to the point that it's a bit less helpless before moving on. Many studies have also show that crazy, head over heels "in lust" feeling of passionate love subsides at around the 18 month-2 yr mark. Biologically speaking, humans are at best serial monogamists.

 

I say that monogamy is an artificial concept that causes great angst in that a person with a high sexual desire level who is also wired to seek out novelty may truly mean it when he/she vows to remain faithful to his/her spouse for the rest of their lives.. trouble comes though when the chemicals that incite passion wear off.. then there are the efforts to negotiate an alternate version of monogamy, one that allows for a lot of sexual novelty, visual variety, arousal from lots of different sources. In short a setup that lets a person do everything but have actual sex outside the marriage.. as long as they don't cross that line they can claim their gold star for fidelity.In this way we try to reconcile our vows with the biological imperatives that drive us. Unfortunately this is an uneasy peace for a lot of couples.

Edited May 2, 2010 by soserious1

[silic0ntoad]

Because there are, for many people perceived advantages in monogamy that don't include sex.Keep in mind that marrying out of romantic love is a relatively new concept in the history of the world. People routinely used to marry for scads of very practical reasons and while lip service might have been paid to the concept of fidelity at the church, in practice folks in such marriages quite frequently had partners on the side.

 

My point about monogamy quite simply is that we are biologically wired to stick around with a partner for about 4 yrs, long enough to produce and rear an infant to the point that it's a bit less helpless before moving on. Many studies have also show that crazy, head over heels "in lust" feeling of passionate love subsides at around the 18 month-2 yr mark. Biologically speaking, humans are at best serial monogamists.

 

I say that monogamy is an artificial concept that causes great angst in that a person with a high sexual desire level who is also wired to seek out novelty may truly mean it when he/she vows to remain faithful to his/her spouse for the rest of their lives.. trouble comes though when the chemicals that incite passion wear off.. then there are the efforts to negotiate an alternate version of monogamy, one that allows for a lot of sexual novelty, visual variety, arousal from lots of different sources. In short a setup that lets a person do everything but have actual sex outside the marriage.. as long as they don't cross that line they can claim their gold star for fidelity.In this way we try to reconcile our vows with the biological imperatives that drive us. Unfortunately this is an uneasy peace for a lot of couples.

 

 

Now I'll bite, I guess.

 

"Be happy he's not cheating"- I still don't get it. Pornography isn't cheating. It's not even the same ballpark. Or sport. Two different things. I understand that, but my GF watches girl on girl porn, yet she isn't a lesbian. Am I supposed to worry she'll leave me for a woman one day?

 

On the notes above:

 

While you may think monogamy is a giant compromise, there are many others that disagree. The ideal is monogamy for most people. New age hippie thinking has made it OK to sleep outside of wedlock, not porn. Since when was it cool to be a swinger? Or have multiple sexual partners? I'm sorry, but not everyone practices safe sex every time they have sex, and I'll be damned if I find myself "ok" with my SO getting rogered by someone else and then catching an STD.

 

On the note of the "bitterness club" yeah, I am hitting you with it. Why? Your words. The way you describe your feelings toward monogamy and men in relationships as a whole pretty much sums up to this: "I want an open relationship because I am free of the burden of feeling gratuitous towards a man for making sexual sacrifices to be with me."

 

Just own it, man, don't make excuses and put the blame on your poor relationship choices that drove you to open relationships.

 

And to me, open and relationship are mutually exclusive. Anything as such to me is simply new age hippie bullsh*t that should be squashed. Makes me sick to think I could have potentially slept with someone who was either in an open relationship or open marriage and I would never know.

[amerikajin]

Porn (hardcore, soft, or just bikini-clad chicks) is okay, provided you can moderate your behavior, and provided that you're respectful toward your partner about it. If it's something that you do once in a while when you're lover's not in the mood, that's one thing; if it's a surrogate for sex with your partner, that's quite another.

[Jersey Shortie]

Stockalone:

If kids are looking at porn, that is a problem. They also shouldn't drink or smoke or use other drugs. And just like you try to prevent a kid from drinking, smoking, doing drugs, you can try to prevent them from looking at porn. At the very least, you can educate them and hope they remeber those lessons when the time comes.

 

Sorry but I don't agree with your "shrug your shoulders, oh well" attitude. Maybe it's because I am a woman and I don't like seeing women degraded. I've realized over the years that a lot of men don't have an issue with women being degraded for their visual pleasure as long as it's not men being degraded. Or don't have any issue with certain ideals and stereotypes being protrayed about women as long as a man has a visual media to masturbate too.

 

Truth remains, if a boy has been viewing porn since he was 11, and most are because that's the average age a boy starts looking at porin, growing up in all those formative years viewing porn, it's going to have a lasting affect on how a boy views women and sex. And these boys turn into men.

 

In the meantime, lets keep telling ourselves it's okay to show degrading material about women that stereotypes them as long as parents give the token talk to boys about how porn isn't *real* even though alot of men sure do wish it was. How often do you even think that honestly happens? Maybe once if a kid is lucky and even then it's probably jsut the standard: "porn isn't real. now go outside and play".

 

While we are out it, lets ignore the fact that porn today is much more abudent then ever before, much more hardcore. And boys today honestly do view it more then previous generations because more of it is more easily available. Lets also forget the fact that with porn, you don't actually even have to leave the house to get it or even pay for it. You do when it comes to drinking, smoking or drugs. And while drinking and smoking and drugs are dangerous things, they don't set up ideas about one gender pertaining to sex and how you treat and view the other gender.

 

But hey, don't address any of those points. Instead, preach about the Leave It To Beaver fix and have a good ole talk with the boys, that will teach them. Even though porn has become an esculating main character in society and is ever growing. But a good ole talk should fix the multi billion dollar business that is porn and will teach boys that women are to be respected and don't have boobs that stand up straight even though daddy sure doesn't mind seeing the 18 year old school girl get banged from behind.

 

Originally Posted by Jersey Shortie

I have been with a number of men that have tried very porn-like moves on me and they though this made them good exciting lovers. I just ended up feeling cold after it all because I am a human being. And I don't want to be treated like crap or see other women treated like crap. Sue me. It's too bad that most men don't seem to mind seeing women treated like crap for their sexual enjoyment.

StockAlone: That would depend on where you draw the line. Obviously, if you feel treated like crap, you should dump the guy. Nobody says you have to endure things you consider demeaning. But what is demeaning and what is not? We can't answer that for everyone else. There is a lot of porn I think is. I don't want to watch certain things and I also won't do certain things in real life.

 

Stockalone, did you even read the part I said above that you orginally qouted? I never said I had to endure being demeaned or that I needed relationship advice. And I never said that every one feels demeaned by the same thing. What I did say was that I've been with enough men that have tried porno like moves and thought that it was great. And alot of other women have expressed the same experiences with growing frustation. Where are these guys getting these ideas? Why didn't the talk you lameinate on teach them not to act this way? Apparently men don't consider porn "just fantasy" because they pick up on things and bring them in the bedroom. And even if they do consider it "just fantasy", lets be honest about what porn says about how men think and feel about women. My experinces wasn't just a one time occurance. And I know alot of other women have experiences something similar. This is a truth that you don't want to be honest about. Your ideal that men aren't affected by porn or that a good ole boy talk fixes everything is not exactly the truth.

 

Stockalone: I am not into shaving my private parts and I am also not interested in anal play. Watching porn hasn't made me like these or some other things.[/QUOTE]

 

That doesn't change the fact that men get ideas from porn on what to engage in sexually. Some men even brag that they get ideas from porn on how to treat their partner.

 

You make it sound like we have no free will and just do everything we see in porn without thinking about whether or not this is actually something we want.

 

Do men stop to think if something in porn is what women want? Or how women really want to be viewed and treated?

 

I do think porn is a good reflection on how men *really* see women in the deepest places.

 

And no, it's not that I think men are so mindless. I do think men have a huge weakness when it comes to porn and that men even try to deny this to themselves because they don't want to admit their own dependency on something they've been viewing since they were very young. I also think men don't want to admit that something like that can infact have considerable sway with them. I also think porn is both what someone might naturally like, and a media driven industry that pushes the limits that give negative ideals, mostly about women. many people here have said that porn is probably why shaving a a girl bare became so popular. Wheather you want to admit it, men do get and hold certain expectations about women from porn.

 

Have expectations changed? I am sure they have, but for both genders, not only for one. But this isn't just because of porn. Men and women are under pressure from various sources.

 

 

We certainly are but women don't have a multi-billion dollard industry that mostly caters to them, that they are masturbating to, that degrades men, calls them names, puts them in demeaning positions and uses them and tosses them for the next newer and exciting piece.

 

Stockalone:I don't know if you are exaggerating on purpose or if you really believe all men have no love, respect and desire for the women they chose to be with. I hope you don't really believe that.

 

I think men have love and desire for women. Respect? I don't know anymore. I don't think men really respect women. At face value maybe, but underneath it all, it seems that alot of men just think wome nare good for sex and the quality of their bodies and that even if he has a great wife and kids, he is still going to sneak off to watch the 18 year old get bent over the desk. But how in the world do men expect women to think they have respect for us when men defend and cater to an industry like porn that is pretty demeaning to women? I really don't get it. Sure, men love and respect women! I guess calling a woman a slut and smacking her ass and tossing her aside for the next new girl is loving and respectful.