soserious1 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Wow. I am glad you have an open mind, but that's terrible that you think us men watch porn as a substitute for women. I am actually pretty offended by alot of the women posters here who think that. What a waste. This forum used to offer good advice. I am starting to think everyone here is entirely too bitter to offer anything of any kind of worth. What woman are told, pretty regularly is that men are hard wired to seek and desire many women, that a man is making a huge "sacrifice" in order to be in a monogamous relationship and that we women should be so, so grateful that he's just sitting there filling his eyes/mind with other women rather than actually bedding them. Sorry but I'm not into such "sacrifice" the very thought of it makes me cringe and it offends me to my very core. Let's practice honesty rather than the sham known as monogamy.
silic0ntoad Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Sad part is, I want one partner, a woman who is faithful to me and only me, as I would be to her, until I find the end of my times. I guess this is not the norm anymore. But, IMHO, women have cheated on me, many of them. I hold no grudges. Perhaps it's time someone tells you to get over it, and stop pursuing what you know in your heart you don't want? And the reason I say that is the bitterness of your post. Eh, whatever. You guys will never change.
AD1980 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 JS must be so fun in bed.. If you try anything other then the missionary position shell scream at you "Did you learn that watching porn?Your a disgusting women hating animal get out of here"
AD1980 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 What woman are told, pretty regularly is that men are hard wired to seek and desire many women, that a man is making a huge "sacrifice" in order to be in a monogamous relationship and that we women should be so, so grateful that he's just sitting there filling his eyes/mind with other women rather than actually bedding them. Sorry but I'm not into such "sacrifice" the very thought of it makes me cringe and it offends me to my very core. Let's practice honesty rather than the sham known as monogamy. We all know women in relationships never think about other Men or notice them:rolleyes:
soserious1 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Sad part is, I want one partner, a woman who is faithful to me and only me, as I would be to her, until I find the end of my times. I guess this is not the norm anymore. But, IMHO, women have cheated on me, many of them. I hold no grudges. Perhaps it's time someone tells you to get over it, and stop pursuing what you know in your heart you don't want? And the reason I say that is the bitterness of your post. Eh, whatever. You guys will never change. You have no idea of what I want, let alone what's in my heart. I'm calling bullshiat on monogamy, this deal where it's such a big, huge hard sacrifice to confine actual sex to just one person while we fill our eyes, minds and often our hearts with lust for others. I don't want to be the object of such a big, horrible difficult sacrifice, I don't want to sit there and smile indulgently and say "oh gee, at least he's not out there fscking other women" like I am runner up at the dog show or something. I like honesty and the honest truth is most men are going to want to look at other women and frequently will desire to bed them. I would far prefer the honesty of an open lifestyle over monogamy.
silic0ntoad Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 You have no idea of what I want, let alone what's in my heart. I'm calling bullshiat on monogamy, this deal where it's such a big, huge hard sacrifice to confine actual sex to just one person while we fill our eyes, minds and often our hearts with lust for others. I don't want to be the object of such a big, horrible difficult sacrifice, I don't want to sit there and smile indulgently and say "oh gee, at least he's not out there fscking other women" like I am runner up at the dog show or something. I like honesty and the honest truth is most men are going to want to look at other women and frequently will desire to bed them. I would far prefer the honesty of an open lifestyle over monogamy. That's fair, and to be honest, I don't really care what your heart desires, I am telling you what I gather from the venom and bitterness in your posts. Just read it. Seriously. Think about it. This type of self righteous bitterness gets you nowhere but alone. Another woman that equates porn use to cheating, I assume. NEWSFLASH. Most guys will watch porn because they are either afraid to ask a girl to do things they desire, OR, the girl is close minded and won't try it. I am soooo done with all this porn=cheating "I'm playing second fiddle!" bullsh*t. Grow a set, get over it, and move on.
soserious1 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 We all know women in relationships never think about other Men or notice them:rolleyes: never said that I don't look at other men, what I've never done though is swatted a man on the arse and told him to chase our snot nosed brats around and cook my dinner while I sit in the den watching porn. I've also never told a man that he should should be grateful that I'm just sitting around watching porn and not actually boffing other men. I wonder how many guys would like to be told what a huge, difficult sacrifice a woman is making to being physically faithful to a man? Nah, I far prefer an open relationship, we don't need to fill each other's ears with pretty lies and we're both free to scratch any itch we might have with other people. It's at least honest. Men you should love that, you retain ALL sexual options then, porn, strippers, multiple relationships.. you get it all all you need to give up is the option of having one woman sitting there slobbering with gratitude because you're just watching porn and not actually sleeping with other women.
soserious1 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 That's fair, and to be honest, I don't really care what your heart desires, I am telling you what I gather from the venom and bitterness in your posts. Just read it. Seriously. Think about it. This type of self righteous bitterness gets you nowhere but alone. Another woman that equates porn use to cheating, I assume. NEWSFLASH. Most guys will watch porn because they are either afraid to ask a girl to do things they desire, OR, the girl is close minded and won't try it. I am soooo done with all this porn=cheating "I'm playing second fiddle!" bullsh*t. Grow a set, get over it, and move on. I am "growing a set" I think monogamy is bullshiat, I want the right to bed whatever man turns me on and to not be obligated to cook, caretake or share my paycheck with him, in turn I don't expect men to promise me sexual fidelity, cook, caretake or share their paychecks with me. We will be together when the urge moves us, we'll share equally in the costs of dating. We BOTH will retain our freedoms and options. What exactly is wrong with that?
sally4sara Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Sally, The issue that I find demeaning, shaming if you will is the entire concept of monogamy. Having to buy into the idea that a man is going to have to "sacrifice" in order to remain faithful in body only to me ,is pretty shameful and demeaning. I far prefer total, blunt honesty "yeah I'll fsck you but I'd much rather be fscking that 22 yr old if she'd let me" That I can cope quite well with, in that situation I'd much rather have a man I'm involved with pursue that 22 yr old and bed her if she'll let him rather than having him sit there filling his eyes with her for an hour in order to come to my bed and try to muster up enough energy to try to pretend to be interested in what I've got to offer. Why not simply agree that both parties are free to eat wherever they get their appetites ? Why must we carry on the sham of monogamy? Monogamy works for some, but not all. I agree that as long as everyone feels comfortable, any manner of partnership can be good. For some, this means monogamy and it is not a sham to them. For others, it is a different style that works. If my husband had to muster up energy to climb in bed with me, 22 year old on the side option or no, isn't the relationship a sham entirely? I'd still be only attended to reluctantly whether he got to sleep with the 22 year old or not so allowing him would change what for me? I am unclear how this plays into porn use, how this supports porn use and indicates that porn is not ever a problem. Could you be clearer? Because I do not feel the simple viewing of porn is living outside of monogamy. So if you suggest the use of porn is to meet someone's need for a different body type while they suffer the one their spouse has, I feel that you suggest exactly what Jersey seems bothered by. The use of porn in this way can eat at a person's self esteem causing them to appear even less appealing in the way they carry themselves. Wouldn't both involved in your example be better off without a relationship where one is begrudgingly engaged with the other and that other is made to feel like a chore? I feel that with your garden variety porn user, it is a way to find release without risking their sexual health, meet some sexual needs when there is no other option, and to appease curiosity about sexual styles. I know not all are interested for only these reasons. There are people who are overly familiar with particular porn actors and spend lots of money on porn rather than make real life connections. In my own relationship, perhaps I don't feel well on a night he has arousal. Or maybe there are sexual acts I'm not interested in. Masturbation is something we all do and it is personal service some don't always feel compelled to share with others. We come to our relationships with this as an aspect of who we are. It should be accepted as who we are within the relationship too. As long as I feel loved and desired, I will not seek to make issue.
silic0ntoad Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 I am "growing a set" I think monogamy is bullshiat, I want the right to bed whatever man turns me on and to not be obligated to cook, caretake or share my paycheck with him, in turn I don't expect men to promise me sexual fidelity, cook, caretake or share their paychecks with me. We will be together when the urge moves us, we'll share equally in the costs of dating. We BOTH will retain our freedoms and options. What exactly is wrong with that? I never said there's anything wrong with it. I said it's not my bag. I have a problem with how you portray it; it's all the menz, they are evolz, filling their feeble little myndz wiff tha evol pornoz! If you want polygamy, have it; I am allowed to disagree, and I am also allowed to state that I think what you want isn't a relationship, more of a convenience for yourself, in having a partner to share bills equally, while going out and shagging any guy you want. Keep in mind, there are men out there that don't desire anyone but the woman they are with.... GOD FORBID that exist. If you can find someone to fit the bill for you, fair enough. But don't paint a picture that polygamy is the advent of solely men, because of their "hard wiring," which we ALL know nowadays holds NO creedence.
soserious1 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Monogamy works for some, but not all. I agree that as long as everyone feels comfortable, any manner of partnership can be good. For some, this means monogamy and it is not a sham to them. For others, it is a different style that works. If my husband had to must up energy to climb in bed with me, 22 year old on the side option or no, isn't the relationship a sham entirely? I'd still be only attended to reluctantly whether he got to sleep with the 22 year old or not so allowing him would change what for me? I am unclear how this plays into porn use, how this supports porn use and indicates that porn is not ever a problem. Could you be clearer? Because I do not feel the simple viewing of porn is living outside of monogamy. So if you suggest the use of porn is to meet someone's need for a different body type while they suffer the one their spouse has, I feel that you suggest exactly what Jersey seems bothered by. The use of porn in this way can eat at a person's self esteem causing them to appear even less appealing in the way they carry themselves. Wouldn't both involved in your example be better off without a relationship where one is begrudgingly engaged with the other and that other is made to feel like a chore? I feel that with your garden variety porn user, it is a way to find release without risking their sexual health, meet some sexual needs when there is no other option, and to appease curiosity about sexual styles. I know not all are interested for only these reasons. There are people who are overly familiar with particular porn actors and spend lots of money on porn rather than make real life connections. In my own relationship, perhaps I don't feel well on a night he has arousal. Or maybe there are sexual acts I'm not interested in. Masturbation is something we all do and it is personal service some don't always feel compelled to share with others. We come to our relationships with this as an aspect of who we are. It should be accepted as who we are within the relationship too. As long as I feel loved and desired, I will not seek to make issue. I don't feel loved and desired in a traditional monogamous relationship. I feel like a sexual chore and I also feel further burdened in that I've got to sit there and lavish praise on a man simply because he hasn't actually acted out his desires with other women and because he's using porn to help him make that horrible, horrible sacrifice of confining his actual sex acts only to me. I don't find that sort of "sacrifice" to be appealing to me on any level, nor do I find a man's mere physical fidelity worth the price paid for it by either of us.
soserious1 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 I never said there's anything wrong with it. I said it's not my bag. I have a problem with how you portray it; it's all the menz, they are evolz, filling their feeble little myndz wiff tha evol pornoz! If you want polygamy, have it; I am allowed to disagree, and I am also allowed to state that I think what you want isn't a relationship, more of a convenience for yourself, in having a partner to share bills equally, while going out and shagging any guy you want. Keep in mind, there are men out there that don't desire anyone but the woman they are with.... GOD FORBID that exist. If you can find someone to fit the bill for you, fair enough. But don't paint a picture that polygamy is the advent of solely men, because of their "hard wiring," which we ALL know nowadays holds NO creedence. Do you deny that women are told that we should be grateful our men are merely viewing porn, that it could be worse, "he could be out there sleeping with other women" ? Well all I'm saying is that pony don't trot anymore for me, as far as I'm concerned he can sleep with anyone he'd like then I don't have to sit there and be "grateful" anymore He gets what he wants, I get relief from the burden of having to be so, so grateful all the time:)
silic0ntoad Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Do you deny that women are told that we should be grateful our men are merely viewing porn, that it could be worse, "he could be out there sleeping with other women" ? Well all I'm saying is that pony don't trot anymore for me, as far as I'm concerned he can sleep with anyone he'd like then I don't have to sit there and be "grateful" anymore He gets what he wants, I get relief from the burden of having to be so, so grateful all the time:) Once you stop equating porn as cheating, we can talk. Til then, adieu. Your viewpoints are your own, and I am not getting into an argument with someone so absolutely bitter.
soserious1 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Once you stop equating porn as cheating, we can talk. Til then, adieu. Your viewpoints are your own, and I am not getting into an argument with someone so absolutely bitter. I asked you a direct question that's very pertinent to this discussion Aren't women frequently told that we should be grateful that our men are merely viewing porn instead of actually going out there and bedding other women"? Hell, I've seen that POV expressed dozens of times in threads just like this one.
Ruby Slippers Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Eventually smart women reach the point where they don't care what a man looks at or doesn't look at, many of us also reach the point where we don't care who else he beds. I find the concept of monogamy odd, having a man tell me that he's going to really "sacrifice" in order to remain faithful in body to me while indulging himself in porn, strippers or good old fashioned gawking at gals in the street to sate his sexual hunger be totally bizarre. Yes. It is starting to seem to me that a woman can involve herself with a desirable, attractive, together guy who has options and wants to explore them, or a not-too-desirable guy who makes the noble effort ( ) to be faithful to the woman he can get but deep down wishes he had what it took to get other women. It was very clear to me that my last boyfriend, though he enjoyed our sex life and did love me, would probably never be content with one woman. His eyes and mind were constantly roaming, and rather aggressively. I think he'll be that way no matter who he's with. But he was very attractive to me, everything I was looking for in a sexual partner, go-get-em, and so on. I know that he could have been a great father and family provider, and he would have been there for me through anything I'd really needed him for. I brought up the idea of an open relationship as a realistic alternative to the constraints of monogamy. I don't find monogamy constraining in the least, but it seemed obvious to me that he did. His response was: "I don't want to share you." His reluctance had nothing to do with his own commitment to me, and everything to do with his possessiveness of me. I think it would be difficult for a woman to find a man who would be as OK with her sampling a wide sexual pool as he himself would like to do. Probably the closest most could get to that is knowing that he has other hidden sexual partners, then also indulging with secret partners of her own. The more I learn about human nature, the more I lower my expectations of others.
silic0ntoad Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 I asked you a direct question that's very pertinent to this discussion Aren't women frequently told that we should be grateful that our men are merely viewing porn instead of actually going out there and bedding other women"? Hell, I've seen that POV expressed dozens of times in threads just like this one. And I've given my answer. You've presented your bait, and I'm not biting. Adieu.
A O Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Here is the deal, people often either misrepresent or miscontrue my comments and add on their own personal feelings to things I never said. That is when I come out and tell them that I infact never said what they try to infer that I did. And that's the truth you don't want to admit AO. When your inferences are picked up by many, then those inferences hold a lot more truth than your 'but I never said that' defense. Most men, if not women also, know that you don't like men, even if you've never, ever, ever said those 'exact' words. You dance around the edges better than most but you fool very, very few people here! I am judgemental about the topic, hell yeah. Don't start preaching PC crap AO. I expect better from you then that. And if you are honest with yourself, you got your own judgemental attitude going on. It's not that you don't care that I am judgemental. You care that I have a different view and judgement a medium that is harsh on women more times then not. And judge men that defend this kind of medium.No preaching here JS. You won't find any correlations to that fact either. Just another projection or misrepresentation/misconstrue on your part, yet again. I'm simply responding to Des's assertion that I behave like you. Hardly! I don't need to trash the other side to get my point across and I'm hardly unique in that area. .
soserious1 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 And I've given my answer. You've presented your bait, and I'm not biting. Adieu. Lol, it's not "bait" but good luck with monogamy, I hope it works out for you.
sally4sara Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 I asked you a direct question that's very pertinent to this discussion Aren't women frequently told that we should be grateful that our men are merely viewing porn instead of actually going out there and bedding other women"? Hell, I've seen that POV expressed dozens of times in threads just like this one. I've never had this said to me, but I believe you when you say you've experienced it. Lots of jerks in the world.
soserious1 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Yes. It is starting to seem to me that a woman can involve herself with a desirable, attractive, together guy who has options and wants to explore them, or a not-too-desirable guy who makes the noble effort ( ) to be faithful to the woman he can get but deep down wishes he had what it took to get other women. It was very clear to me that my last boyfriend, though he enjoyed our sex life and did love me, would probably never be content with one woman. His eyes and mind were constantly roaming, and rather aggressively. I think he'll be that way no matter who he's with. But he was very attractive to me, everything I was looking for in a sexual partner, go-get-em, and so on. I know that he could have been a great father and family provider, and he would have been there for me through anything I'd really needed him for. I brought up the idea of an open relationship as a realistic alternative to the constraints of monogamy. I don't find monogamy constraining in the least, but it seemed obvious to me that he did. His response was: "I don't want to share you." His reluctance had nothing to do with his own commitment to me, and everything to do with his possessiveness of me. I think it would be difficult for a woman to find a man who would be as OK with her sampling a wide sexual pool as he himself would like to do. Probably the closest most could get to that is knowing that he has other hidden sexual partners, then also indulging with secret partners of her own. The more I learn about human nature, the more I lower my expectations of others. I totally agree with everything you are saying, I also wonder if there's something about what I call" the gratitude club" The club is used to silence and/or shame a woman who complains about her man's habit of ogling women, porn watching or visits to the strippers. The complainer gets told that "boys will be boys" and that she should be grateful to the man, after all he could be out there actually sleeping with other women? Does the thought of an open relationship, one in which both parties are free to do whatever they likes with whomever they like become threatening precisely because the gratitude club is then no longer effective?
Ruby Slippers Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Definitely. His roving eyes absolutely dampened my excitement about him and investment in the relationship, and made me regard him with much more caution. The guy before, I swear I never once saw him check out another woman in my presence. When we were together, he only had eyes for me and the sparks were flying like crazy. We turned heads and seemed to melt hearts everywhere we went. It was awesome. More than one restaurant server said to us, "You guys are so adorable." His laser focus on me turned me on like crazy, and I felt safe, secure, and smart about giving that relationship my all, so I did.
soserious1 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Definitely. His roving eyes absolutely dampened my excitement about him and investment in the relationship, and made me regard him with much more caution. The guy before, I swear I never once saw him check out another woman in my presence. When we were together, he only had eyes for me and the sparks were flying like crazy. We turned heads and seemed to melt hearts everywhere we went. It was awesome. More than one restaurant server said to us, "You guys are so adorable." His laser focus on me turned me on like crazy, and I felt safe, secure, and smart about giving that relationship my all, so I did. Hmmm... the roving eye isn't what bothers me.. no, what bothers me is the idea that I should be expressing "gratitude" that he's not actually acting on impulse to sleep with others along with the notion that he's made some huge "sacrifice" by confining himself to having sex only with me. The aspect of having to commend him for being "faithful" when in reality he can and does lust for others on a regular basis.. it just sort of reminds me of the story of the Emperor with no clothes. I don't know but somehow I feel at this point that desiring others is totally normal and that having a partner who openly admits that and retains the option to respectfully exercise the option to bed others is a lot better foundation for a relationship than one built upon the artificial construct of monogamy with it's expectations of gratitude being rendered for physical sacrifices that are not natural.
marlena Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Hmmm... the roving eye isn't what bothers me.. no, what bothers me is the idea that I should be expressing "gratitude" that he's not actually acting on impulse to sleep with others along with the notion that he's made some huge "sacrifice" by confining himself to having sex only with me. The aspect of having to commend him for being "faithful" when in reality he can and does lust for others on a regular basis.. it just sort of reminds me of the story of the Emperor with no clothes. I don't know but somehow I feel at this point that desiring others is totally normal and that having a partner who openly admits that and retains the option to respectfully exercise the option to bed others is a lot better foundation for a relationship than one built upon the artificial construct of monogamy with it's expectations of gratitude being rendered for physical sacrifices that are not natural. Absolutely loved this post! Soserious, you go, girl!! Really you do!!
Bejita463 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 You can recognize someone looks good without desiring them. I doubt that desiring others is normal, but anyone who says they don't realize when someone they see looks good is someone who is lying.
soserious1 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 You can recognize someone looks good without desiring them. I doubt that desiring others is normal, but anyone who says they don't realize when someone they see looks good is someone who is lying. I think that when you catch somebody pants down, hands on sex organs in front of a computer monitor displaying a picture of a naked person that you can safely assume the one with the pants down is experiencing "desire" Btw, I have no problem with men or with the idea that it is quite natural to lust for others. I do have a problem with monogamy, I think the construct of the entire thing is not natural. I also think it's at the heart of the reason we're twisting and doing the limbo around porn, we are trying to reconcile the natural tendencies of mere mortals so that they align with the frankly weird notion of monogamy.
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