This Week's IC Session

[2sunny]

if i keep my life tidy and everything under "MY" control - then it means everything is alright.

 

if everyone does exactly want i say and exactly what i request then everything is alright.

 

i am in control... i will get what i want... i won't have to face the reality of my past as long as i keep things in order...

 

 

YIKES!!! terribly delusional...

[Samantha0905]

I agree this could very well be at play.

 

Also, to continue the passive aggressive thoughts...don't be surprised if he has a mountain of issues with you he's never openly discussed, including but not limited to your affair.

 

And consider whether your affair was you being passive aggressive with your H: instead of dealing with your issues with him, such as anger at him being controlling, you chose to hurt him behind his back by having an affair instead.

 

It could have been a passive aggressive response by me, but honestly I have always hated the lack of sexual attraction and the awkwardness in the bedroom. I know myself deep down enough to know I'm a free spirit and I really, really, really just wanted to enjoy sex with a partner. I did not feel awkward once with my XAP. That being said, perhaps if my husband and I had developed our relationship in a more healthy manner -- we could have done better with the sex life thing. I don't know.

 

if i had spent my married life being unhappy and it was due to being treated like a child and i intended to find out what happy looked like for ME - i would become willing to try the opposite in my marriage in every area.

 

every area. have an opinion, have a voice. speak YOUR truth... no matter what. take action on what you believe is your truth. start participating in all of these areas... you will grow and learn about yourself. he can choose to either participate or not - that's HIS choice.

 

expect the changes to make him uncomfortable, at least at first. he's not used to this, remember? be quiet little girl, be a good girl, do as i say little girl.

 

you are not THAT little girl anymore. show him that you will never be THAT girl again. you will have backlash... stay strong, stay focused. it's an uphill battle to find ourselves... to stay neutral and on path is key.

 

do not get angry that he gets confused with the "new" woman you intend to become - it's foreign to him. be patient as he adjusts to change... it will not be easy - but it is sooooo worth it.

 

he is adjusting to the strong woman you were always intended to be. be true to self. what he does or doesn't do is beside the point. YOU are becoming YOU. let him become who he intends to be.

 

anything opposite of the old you is key - be willing to try anything but what you USED to do. this will always get you change - a new results.

 

speak up. do it nicely and honestly. it will mean something to yourself and to others.

 

Thank you so much for taking time to post your thoughts. I agree with all of this and it is what I'm starting to do. It's liberating.

 

this is very odd...

 

could it be that he doesn't feel safe unless he's in a small space? closing out the rest of the world? to keep certain areas of his life closed off in order to have the delusion of being safe? to hide from the areas around him? if i keep my past at bay i don't have to face the reality of what it may actually look like?

 

hmmmm, not the usual....

 

I don't know. He's become more and more eccentric as he has aged. He never really dated much either. He's in his 50s now. He has a theology doctorate, but he is not a minister anymore -- he did do some work for a short time as a singles minister in a large church.

 

My son is gay and swears this particular uncle is gay and just not coming out or acting on it due to personal religious reasons -- and possibly due to the fact it's difficult for him having grown up in such a conservative family. It could be he's repressed a lot of things and has just become more and more odd as life has gone on. Of course, it's not against the law to be odd.

 

Makes me wonder if there's more to their "controlling, conservative" parents than any of the three brothers are willing to face.

 

I've been around them since I was 14. Having my own special family dynamics with 14 brothers and sisters, the only thing I ever noticed if they were very conservative and the mother very naive. They never wanted to tell her anything and would discuss serious issues behind her back like they thought it was protecting her. The sister was overly protected also -- it was almost like the men felt better feeling like they were taking care of (controlling) the women in the family.

 

It was odd for me because my father was a commercial artist and more open minded to ideas which differed from his own. He was just more of an open, free-spirited person about many things. Now, I don't mean like a hippy (nothing against them ) -- my father appeared more conservative in dress -- he just didn't push his ideas on others and was willing to listen to people speak about what they thought and believed even when it was contrary to how he felt.

 

I feel like I'm rambling now. In any event, I don't think my husband's parents did anything odd or weird to their children. They're good people -- the dad is a WWII vet and the mom tried to do what she thought was right in raising her children. I think they just did not allow them to learn to express themselves except things that were considered "normal" -- whatever that is -- nothing controversial, in other words.

 

I remember at the dinner table once my husband said the word "butt" -- now this was as an adult -- and his mother called him down. They're pretty conservative.

 

We blabbed all the time in my large family about what was on our minds. We didn't have topics we could not discuss. We weren't allowed to be hateful or express prejudice thoughts, but other than that about anything was game.

[Samantha0905]

if i keep my life tidy and everything under "MY" control - then it means everything is alright.

 

if everyone does exactly want i say and exactly what i request then everything is alright.

 

i am in control... i will get what i want... i won't have to face the reality of my past as long as i keep things in order...

 

 

YIKES!!! terribly delusional...

 

Now -- this does sound like my husband's mom to me somewhat and my husband. The dad was rather controlling also, but he's in his late 80s now and has some dementia problems. I know that weighs heavily on my husband. I hated when my parents were ill and, obviously, when they passed away. It's so sad.

 

In any event, what you've said above is a lot of what I felt like I was experiencing with my inlaws and my husband -- especially the first 10 years of our marriage -- I swear I went to marriage counseling at 10 years of marriage more over them being overbearing than my husband's actual actions -- although he was quite a piece of work back then also with the not "allowing" me to have wine, saying I had to go to church, etc. I don't know what the Hell I was thinking and why I let that go on for so long. It was definitely NOT what I grew up around.

 

Not that my parents drank alcohol, but they sure didn't mind me drinking it once I was of age and felt it was not their place to tell an adult what to do. When my husband's mother used to call looking for my mother to ask her to do something related to church (my parents didn't go to their church), my mother would shake her head no and mouth, "I'm not here!" to me. I didn't blame her. I wanted to hide too.

[Samantha0905]

and I meant 13 brothers and sisters. I didn't mean to count myself as one of my brothers and sisters. ha,ha

[2sunny]

we go along with it because that's all we know. being from a large family myself (much like yours) we often have no voice. or we don't get heard because there are so many to be heard...

 

either way - we are brought up in an environment where's it's common to be overlooked, never truly understood. how can someone hear us when everyone is competing for even the tiniest of a voice. and if no one hears use - that is the norm.

 

we carry this "habit" we learned growing up into our marriage. we don't know anything different and we don't know better. we are stifled again... the norm... but not healthy.

 

NOW you know. and now that you know - you can never go back - because to stifle your voice, your opinion, your knowledge and rightful place in your life - would be the death of your spirit.

 

i've been down this road Sam, for the past several years. after being stifled in my youth and 20 years of marriage that looked like yours. i now know what it feels like to be free. i will never go back to my old ways. this is true freedom.

 

you will love it if you can do it...

[Samantha0905]

we go along with it because that's all we know. being from a large family myself (much like yours) we often have no voice. or we don't get heard because there are so many to be heard...

 

either way - we are brought up in an environment where's it's common to be overlooked, never truly understood. how can someone hear us when everyone is competing for even the tiniest of a voice. and if no one hears use - that is the norm.

 

we carry this "habit" we learned growing up into our marriage. we don't know anything different and we don't know better. we are stifled again... the norm... but not healthy.

 

NOW you know. and now that you know - you can never go back - because to stifle your voice, your opinion, your knowledge and rightful place in your life - would be the death of your spirit.

 

i've been down this road Sam, for the past several years. after being stifled in my youth and 20 years of marriage that looked like yours. i now know what it feels like to be free. i will never go back to my old ways. this is true freedom.

 

you will love it if you can do it...

 

Thank you 2sunny. I had wonderful parents, but I know you understand the dynamics of a large family. We're all real close still. Obviously, it's more difficult to be "heard" when there are so many and I probably did not develop myself in that area. I think going for that straight into a controlling situation probably is not ideal and does just make the problem worse.

 

I can say I loved growing up with so many brothers and sisters. It was an experience I would not have traded away for anything. There are some cons, but the pros way outweighed those for me in my situation.

 

I do feel like I know now and am bound and determined to express myself as an individual -- to get to know who I am -- find my voice. You actually are saying a lot of what my counselor said in regards to not allowing my spirit to be stifled.

 

Thank you for your encouragement!

[BB07]

Samantha......after reading your responses after my last post, it makes me wonder just how angry you are at your husband. From what you've described if I were in your shoes, I'd be very angry at many things and how he has treated you over the years. It sounds like he has not been treating you like a equal responsible adult for most of your life. It sounds like he has tried to stifle you and when the real you came out, it seems he tried even harder to silence you because it's not what he wanted since you played the role of what you thought he wanted for a long time.

[norajane]

you played the role of what you thought he wanted for a long time.

I imagine she might have some anger at herself, too, for choosing to play that role and for so long.

[BB07]

I imagine she might have some anger at herself, too, for choosing to play that role and for so long.

 

Very good point to bring out. I know for me.....anger at myself is more destructive.

[califnan]

I don't know if Samantha should be angry with herself for going along with her husband .. afterall he is her husband.

 

And Samantha, you probably already know from what you have said - that your husband's upbringing probably caused him to act out in this manner. Whereas with a preconceived thought of the woman's role: the mother was naive, sisters being called upon by the brothers to serve them at refreshmene or dining. And I think you mentioned that your husband considering sex as being serviced. He was brought up in a home where the women in the home had separate distinct roles. And living with you for a lot of years, he knows you of more of a free spirit (even diff on politics) .. I'm sure by now that he knows the diff between the two of you, but tries to seize control where he thinks he can ..

 

Aside from him having a controling spirit, we are living in an age where women are demanding more rights as well.

[Samantha0905]

Samantha......after reading your responses after my last post, it makes me wonder just how angry you are at your husband. From what you've described if I were in your shoes, I'd be very angry at many things and how he has treated you over the years. It sounds like he has not been treating you like a equal responsible adult for most of your life. It sounds like he has tried to stifle you and when the real you came out, it seems he tried even harder to silence you because it's not what he wanted since you played the role of what you thought he wanted for a long time.

 

I imagine she might have some anger at herself, too, for choosing to play that role and for so long.

 

Very good point to bring out. I know for me.....anger at myself is more destructive.

 

Very true noraj and BB. I'm feeling positive about resolving the resentment and anger issues. I'm a pretty upbeat person and I think just making progress speaking up will put me in a much better place.

[Samantha0905]

I don't know if Samantha should be angry with herself for going along with her husband .. afterall he is her husband.

 

And Samantha, you probably already know from what you have said - that your husband's upbringing probably caused him to act out in this manner. Whereas with a preconceived thought of the woman's role: the mother was naive, sisters being called upon by the brothers to serve them at refreshmene or dining. And I think you mentioned that your husband considering sex as being serviced. He was brought up in a home where the women in the home had separate distinct roles. And living with you for a lot of years, he knows you of more of a free spirit (even diff on politics) .. I'm sure by now that he knows the diff between the two of you, but tries to seize control where he thinks he can ..

 

Aside from him having a controling spirit, we are living in an age where women are demanding more rights as well.

 

Yes and our upbringing greatly effects us, in my opinion. He is working on changing though and I am also. Hopefully, it will all work out for the long run. I'm still hoping to be grandparents together.

[califnan]

Yes and our upbringing greatly effects us, in my opinion. He is working on changing though and I am also. Hopefully, it will all work out for the long run. I'm still hoping to be grandparents together.

 

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Me too - For you ..

[BB07]

Yes and our upbringing greatly effects us, in my opinion. He is working on changing though and I am also. Hopefully, it will all work out for the long run. I'm still hoping to be grandparents together.

 

I sincerely hope it works out for you too Samantha and I hope that you both find a relationship that is truly satisfying and rewarding in all ways.

 

Grandchildren I had my first 8 months ago and it's one of the best things I've ever experienced......I just can't get enough of that little thing.

[Samantha0905]

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Me too - For you ..

 

Thank you!

 

I sincerely hope it works out for you too Samantha and I hope that you both find a relationship that is truly satisfying and rewarding in all ways.

 

Grandchildren I had my first 8 months ago and it's one of the best things I've ever experienced......I just can't get enough of that little thing.

 

Thank you also!

 

Ooooh, I'm totally envious. Not that I'm rushing my daughter or anything, but I love babies. I'm getting so desperate for a baby, I'm actually thinking of getting a new puppy. Not that they're the same as a grandchild. I think my daughter will still wait a couple of years and my son is gay and only a sophomore in college -- although maybe one day he will be able to adopt or something. He says he'll find a friend who will be a surrogate for him. From what I remember about pregnancy, that will have to be one good friend!!

 

Congratulations on your grandchild!!

[on1wheel]

I don't know Nora. Perhaps that feeling will be short-lived. I know when my counselor suggested it, my initial reaction was I didn't feel ready. I know I'm not sexually attracted to my husband and I'm not sure that is something I want to say in counseling to my husband and I'm also not sure it's something which can be remedied.

 

I've sometimes wondered if we communicated better and did more things together, if perhaps the attraction would come. And perhaps if he stopped treating me like a child and doing the controlling thing so much. Of course, I'm obviously not communicating with him by not telling him I don't feel a physical attraction. I'm just not sure how to say that to someone and what can be done about it.

 

I went to IC to try to get a hold on what's going on inside of me and what I really want to achieve in my life. I also hoped to figure out what is going on in me that the attraction isn't there and also why in the world I chose to have an affair -- an action I would have never thought I would have taken.

 

I am starting to feel somewhat better about myself as far as having a right to express myself. I do still feel like I've only made small steps. I feel like more progress needs to be made before I can deal with announcing there's no sexual attraction. I'm not even sure that should ever be announced. It would do a lot of damage also. I just keep hoping if he continues to work with his emotions and communicating and I keep working on things, perhaps we will become more intimate in the marriage and some sort of attraction will be there.

 

Alternatively, I may become strong enough to know I have to take action and not having sexual attraction to my spouse isn't something acceptable. Or perhaps I will learn it's something I can do without when weighed against breaking up my family.

 

I still feel confused and am not quite sure what to do.

 

Samantha,

Why do U stay...just for the kids? If so, then I understand.

If not, then why? You say he treats U like a child, but I see U acting like one. Keeping the facts from Mommy & Daddy so to speak; afraid of the ramifications of your actions. You have an affair, something U know that is VERY WRONG, yet U won't tell him & let him decide what he wants to do about it.

You complain about his control issues, yet you are controlling the firection the M goes in, controlling what info he is given. I also suspect you thought maybe he had an A as well. In essence, you have turned the tables on all the negative aspects that you perceived I suspect. Am I right???

Any therapist that doesn't @ least encourage total honesty (especially where an PA is concerned) should lose whatever rediculous little license he/she may have. Not only is it morally wrong, but there are potentially lethal health issues that the innocent party has no idea about...dispicable advice you've been given.

You took vows, chose to break them; @ least be mature enough to allow the man to decide if he even wants to be with you anymore.

This is not a real marriage; not with this many secrets IMHO. I wish you well though.

[BB07]

Samantha,

Why do U stay...just for the kids? If so, then I understand.

If not, then why? You say he treats U like a child, but I see U acting like one. Keeping the facts from Mommy & Daddy so to speak; afraid of the ramifications of your actions. You have an affair, something U know that is VERY WRONG, yet U won't tell him & let him decide what he wants to do about it.

You complain about his control issues, yet you are controlling the firection the M goes in, controlling what info he is given. I also suspect you thought maybe he had an A as well. In essence, you have turned the tables on all the negative aspects that you perceived I suspect. Am I right???

Any therapist that doesn't @ least encourage total honesty (especially where an PA is concerned) should lose whatever rediculous little license he/she may have. Not only is it morally wrong, but there are potentially lethal health issues that the innocent party has no idea about...dispicable advice you've been given.

You took vows, chose to break them; @ least be mature enough to allow the man to decide if he even wants to be with you anymore.

This is not a real marriage; not with this many secrets IMHO. I wish you well though.

 

Perhaps you aren't caught up. Samantha's children are grown.....and her husband does know of the affair.

[Samantha0905]

Perhaps you aren't caught up. Samantha's children are grown.....and her husband does know of the affair.

 

Perhaps not.

 

As to why I stay -- well, I love him and my family. We're both in IC and hopefully things will work out for the best.