He doesn't believe it's wrong

[adecadelost]

My husband is having an emotional affair, but he doesn't recognize it as such. He is spending a massive amount of time talking to a woman from his job. They text dozens of times per day and he deletes the messages. They talk on the phone multiple times (at least ten times) per day while they're working (they work on different floors- he's a concierge, she's a secretary) They talk on the phone for hours each night after I've gone to bed. The straw that broke the camel's back was that he talked to her for 12hrs straight one night. He was on the phone with her when I got home, got off the phone for 15 mins to talk to me (we argued) he then called her back and had the remainder of the 12hr conversation. At the time I didn't know it was her on the phone (the argument was unrelated, and started by me) But that next morning I asked him what time he went to bed and he told me he had "just" fell asleep. I proceeded to look at his phone and saw that he had just gotten off the phone with her about an hour earlier. So from 7pm the night before, until 6:45 the next morning (with the absence of the 15 minutes we talked) he was talking to her. And that was the moment it dawned on me that this was really, truly, an emotional affair.

 

A little backstory: A few months ago I told him I thought he was talking to her a little too much and that I wanted him to "tone it down." They started off as smoke buddies at work. He agreed, saying while she was only a friend, he didn't want to make me upset so he would "definitely scale back" on the communication. I never even considered it would continue to be an issue because we've been married for ten years and have had a very open and trusting relationship until now. I appreciate my freedom, and he appreciated his. We don't do a lot of "where were you?" or "when are you coming home?" and haven't had any issues with having friends of the opposite sex before.

 

I recognize it's not about her, and we have identified some of the issues that have led to him feeling like he needs to talk to her so much, but still, he doesn't recognize this as an affair and doesn't want to stop talking to her. I feel like we can't even start working on the marriage until he stops all communication. So we're at a deadlock. I'm working on setting up marriage counseling, but he has to meet me half way (I picked the place, he's supposed to make the appt) but he doesn't seem to be budging...

 

What do you do when the person feels like since they're not having sex, they're not doing anything wrong? And how can you move forward when the affair is still happening? It seems impossible

[2sure]

It isnt impossible.

He is behaving in a way that is destroying your marriage. It makes him feel good , he doesnt see how it harms you ...And he is destroying your marriage.

 

You have to DO something tangible if you love him and want to save the marriage.

 

MC can come after.

 

Call her and tell her. 12 hours of conversation, so much communication, is nuts. That way, the three people involved in this destruction are at least talking about the same thing , regardless of opinions on it.

 

Thats a start.

[Owl]

Also, if you've tried to explain it to him and he's not understanding the risk/danger here, then enlist the aid of those who matter to him.

 

Go talk with his friends and family...let them know exactly what's going on, and explain to them that you're asking for their help in getting him to see what he's doing and how it's going to destroy the marriage. Explain to them what an EA is if they don't know, outline how his actions demonstrate that this is what he's doing, and ask them to talk with him and get him to see the truth for himself.

 

Make sure that they know you're asking for their help, don't let them get the impression that you're doing this to be vindictive.

 

Don't give him any forewarning about what you're doing either. He'll attempt damage control, tell them that you're crazy, and have a story put together to try to prove that point. Simply do it, and let him find out when his family and friends talk with him about it.

 

If he doesn't suffer some kind of consequence (starting with his friends/family being aware of his affair) he's not going to have any reason to stop on his own. Doing this is the first step towards making the affair less fun. At the same time, start doing everything you can on your part to make the marriage more attractive.

[whichwayisup]

Ask him how he would feel if you were texing and spending lots of time paying attention to another man..Opening yourself up, enjoying this time with someone else.

 

Your H may 'feel' like he's doing nothing wrong, but he has to understand he's beginning to BOND with another woman. Maybe his intentions aren't to cheat, but he is. This is taking time, energy and focus away from you - Allowing him to become emotionally attached to this other woman.

 

I like Owls suggestions, so please, listen to him!

[adecadelost]

Thanks for these responses folks. I know I’m on the right track because I’ve already done a couple of these things. That morning when I noticed the call, I called the number back (with his phone) and spoke to her. I basically said that I wanted her to know that I do not approve of the communication between the two of them, especially that last phone call, and want to make a formal request for her to stop calling my husband. She responded that they had been discussing that they need to decrease their communication, and I responded that I want it to end, not decrease, and that now she cannot say that she does not know, or that the relationship is fine. I concluded by telling her I would take up the rest with him.

I have explained how hurt I am and have asked him if the tables were turned would he be ok with it, and his answer was “No, but that’s different.” My response to that was that gender based double standards will not be allowed in our relationship, and that was the end of that conversation. I asked “if you know how much it hurts me, why do you continue?” And his response was “I’m trying, I’m trying.” I feel like he’s addicted to this woman.

I agree with trying to make the marriage more attractive, and I’m working on it. I’ve been trying to stay up a little longer (I usually go to bed around 10PM because I have to get up at 5AM, while his bio clock has always made him a night owl so he doesn’t fall asleep until 2AM naturally, and he says he’s so bored after I go to bed) and I have planned a dinner with another couple that we like to hang out with to play Wii.

 

Another reason why he likes talking to her is because she makes him “feel needed.” She does this by making him feel like he’s solving problems she just couldn’t seem to figure out. I won’t be able to do that because it’s fake and I just can’t pretend like I need help tying my shoes. But I did explain all the things I *do* need/want him for as my husband. I think the issue is that those aren’t the ways he wants to be needed. I think he wants to be needed in the stereotypical provider/protector way… and I simply don’t need/value him for that.

I “threatened” to tell our families about it already so unfortunately I can’t surprise him with it, but I still think it can be really useful… maybe I can start with his family since I know even after telling him they will still love him, but if I tell my family they might treat him differently and I don’t want that to happen…

[silverfish]

OP have you told him that you want him to stop talking to her? So far, you said you want him to 'tone it down' but not stop. You told her you would take it up with him...but if he continues talking to her then it's just empty threats on your part.

 

He has a serious problem with boundaries by the sound of it --- one rule for himself another for yourself? WTF is that about? My ex H treated me like that early in our relationship and I was too young and inexperienced to see it for what it was...an emotional affair that later became briefly physical. I was too 'cool' about the whole thing and refused to express my jealousy and hurt for fear of seeming controlling or something.

 

You sound a little similar...I let it go for too long. I tried the telling his family tack as well, and that went no where, because they would support him whatever he does. My advice is that you tell him to cease all contact with her, and go to MC to discuss his double standards in your relationship.

 

See what he does then. If he refuses MC and anything other than polite conversation with this woman, then what does that tell you about his view of your relationship? He needs a wake up call and you're the only one who can give it to him.

[adecadelost]

silverfish, I said originally I only asked him to tone it down, because it had not IMO crossed the line.

 

Once it did cross the line I asked for all communication to cease.

 

I have not let this go at all, I have been extremely active in trying to handle it, I am still reeling from finding it all out. The 12hr phone call was not even 7 days ago.

 

Like I said, I already started the ball rolling with MC, now it's his turn to follow through.

[adecadelost]

I agree he needs another job, ASAP. He is looking for another one. I want to say "just quit now" but I am worried that because part of the problem in our marriage is that I make so much more than him (which is why he can't fill the stereotypical "provider" role) asking him to quit his job will just make that aspect worse... is that a legitimate concern on my part, or do we just figure that part out after he quits?

[silverfish]

silverfish, I said originally I only asked him to tone it down, because it had not IMO crossed the line.

 

Once it did cross the line I asked for all communication to cease.

 

I have not let this go at all, I have been extremely active in trying to handle it, I am still reeling from finding it all out. The 12hr phone call was not even 7 days ago.

 

Like I said, I already started the ball rolling with MC, now it's his turn to follow through.

 

I agree it's his turn to follow through..so has he offered to quit his job? Has he stopped talking to her?

 

I wasn't trying to imply that you aren't doing enough...just that you seemed unsure in your original post as to what to make of the situation.

[hopesndreams]

If he continues communicating with her and stays at the same job, without actively looking for another job, away from her, you do know where this is heading right?

 

He's trying? He's addicted to her? These two will end up together unless something, someone, drives them apart. Expose now, to his work and to the family and demand no communication. Insist on MC. If he does not comply, file for D.

 

Also, they are so entangled emotionally, prepare yourself that it has gone physical, you just don't know about it, yet.

[adecadelost]

thanks silverfish, I appreciate you coming back and clarifying

 

yes, hopesndreams, it will become physical, I know. And I'm coming to terms with the fact that it might have already happened even if I don't believe it has, and that I may never know. That's hard.

Edited April 23, 2010 by adecadelost
spelling

[Cinnamon2000]

I agree he needs another job, ASAP. He is looking for another one. I want to say "just quit now" but I am worried that because part of the problem in our marriage is that I make so much more than him (which is why he can't fill the stereotypical "provider" role) asking him to quit his job will just make that aspect worse... is that a legitimate concern on my part, or do we just figure that part out after he quits?

 

What kind of woman would spend 12 hours talking to a married man? Maybe the kind who will throw herself at your husband. Since he is, according to you, "addicted" to her. If she insist on providing certain "services" to him again and again, do you think he can say "No" for the 73rd time? All they need is 30 minutes before or after work and a local motel or her place. Or it can be done during lunch or one of their smoking breaks.

 

Affairs servives on secrecy and once it's exposed, it's no longer fun and exciting, but taboo. You need to expose! Expose to everyone he respects! EVERYONE. Or else, you can come back two months dealing with an other woman who's preganant or you getting an STD from your H.

[hopesndreams]

I agree with trying to make the marriage more attractive, and I’m working on it. I’ve been trying to stay up a little longer (I usually go to bed around 10PM because I have to get up at 5AM, while his bio clock has always made him a night owl so he doesn’t fall asleep until 2AM naturally, and he says he’s so bored after I go to bed) and I have planned a dinner with another couple that we like to hang out with to play Wii.

 

If he doesn't start showing some action on ending his EA, and quite possibly PA, with the OW, why allow him her and you? As of right now, he may be torn between both of you. He is into her because she is needy and wants protecting and she fancies him something rotten, it makes him feel needed and the "big man". What an ego boost!! You, well you are someone he has known for forever, you are his W and will stand by him, maybe even let him cake eat. You will go out of your way to make him feel oh so special and do whatever it takes to keep him with you. Another ego boost!!

 

He can't have both of you!!!

 

Show him what life will be like without you. No more bending over backward. He needs to miss you, wonder about you and realize what a total idiot he has been. I suggest the 180.

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

4. Do not follow her around the house.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

8. Do not buy gifts.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

11. Do not say "I Love You".

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

21. Never lose your cool.

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.

23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

[jenifer1972]

The thing is, the people involved in such behaviors, whether they be men or women, always MINIMIZE what they are doing, make EXCUSES why they can't or won't stop, and ACT like they don't know what they are doing wrong...

 

But here's the thing...they ALL.... KNOW..... WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG. And that is what they need to be called on. No excuses, stop the BS. Just STOP. Period. I would tell him not to insult my intelligence...

[lilagirl]

I would start subtle. Think of him like a child... If a child was doing something wrong.... recognize what he is doing right

 

- recognize when he is a great husband (oh baby, thank you so much for dinner. I have such an amazing husband)

- WANT him (OMG... you look so amazing this am)

- WANT him (text him... I can`t wait for you to get home... and follow thru)

-

 

She wants him... she is feeding his ego... YOU do it . . . and he will have no need for her... he innately wants you. I guarantee it. As soon as you start showing him the affection he is getting from her, he will want what he already has... its a simple equation. Feed your marriage.

 

I am an OW, and I have NO doubt that if she saw him before he went to work, and told him how amazing he looks, like I do, or told him how much she appreciates his strength, and charisma... I wouldn`t be here... he wants desperately for his marriage to work out.

 

Love YOUR man. EVERY day - for the qualities that make him a MAN... not a father... or a provider...

[D-Lish]

I wouldn't put up with that for one second.

 

You do have a choice here, you don't have to sit back and take this.

 

If you've told him how this makes you feel, and he isn't listening, it might be time to leave. I would have left already over something like this. I have zero tolerance for cheating, emotional or otherwise.

 

As much as you want to save this marriage, he has to want to save it too in order for things to get better. If he can't see your POV, he's either a fool, or he's in denial.

 

I'd have his bags packed and on the front step if this was my husband. This behaviour is completely unacceptable. He may need something drastic to happen to set his head straight.

[Ann_Igma]

I would start subtle. Think of him like a child... If a child was doing something wrong.... recognize what he is doing right

 

- recognize when he is a great husband (oh baby, thank you so much for dinner. I have such an amazing husband)

- WANT him (OMG... you look so amazing this am)

- WANT him (text him... I can`t wait for you to get home... and follow thru)

-

 

She wants him... she is feeding his ego... YOU do it . . . and he will have no need for her... he innately wants you. I guarantee it. As soon as you start showing him the affection he is getting from her, he will want what he already has... its a simple equation. Feed your marriage.

 

I am an OW, and I have NO doubt that if she saw him before he went to work, and told him how amazing he looks, like I do, or told him how much she appreciates his strength, and charisma... I wouldn`t be here... he wants desperately for his marriage to work out.

 

Love YOUR man. EVERY day - for the qualities that make him a MAN... not a father... or a provider...

 

This sounds like really great advice, it truly does. But I'm going to have to disagree. That might be the case sometimes for some people, but every situation is different.

 

In my situation, I am the BS and I did want and appreciate my husband and always did my best to make sure he knew it - long before his EA even started.

 

For example, in one of their conversations that I (unfortunately) got to read, she was complaining about her recent ex-BF and how he'd not really complimented her much or made her feel special towards the end of their relationship. My H's response was that I actually did give compliments, but they didn't count because I'm his wife/am biased/etc.

 

Whereas for her to say complimentary things to him, a married man, it must mean more since she's overcoming taboo to even say them... Or something along those lines in his twisted logic.

 

To the OP: I completely agree with D-Lish that you need to take drastic and decisive action as soon as you can.

 

If he doesn't think what he's doing is wrong, and he doesn't think it hurts your recovery to keep talking to this woman, then he is not respecting your boundaries or trying to understand/respect your feelings at all.

 

At the moment, he is with you and he is still talking to this woman. Whether or not you approve of them talking, you are showing him that you will essentially allow him to get away with his bad behavior, just by staying with him while he carries on doing exactly what he wants.

 

I have to agree with one of the assumptions you made in your first post - you can't move forward while he is continuing his EA. Heck, how can you two move forward if he can't even acknowledge to you that it is an EA?!

 

Your husband doesn't seem to want to admit how problematic his actions are or how much they are hurting you. And unfortunately I don't think there are any words you can say which will make him see that. Instead you're going to have to try and show him with your actions.

 

Please don't let yourself get stepped on anymore - put your foot down.

[Star727]

adecadelost

 

My, my, my. Your story sounds so much like my story I had to look to see who was writing this!

 

I know how you feel - I understand and sympathize totally. And I'm at a lost to what to do next also.

 

My WH has been in a long term EA with a fellow coworker of ours for the past 10 years. Found out through cell phone detailed billing. They talked 5-7 times a day, 7 days a week, even when we were on family vacation for two years that I can prove. I found out 2 years ago and we've had broken NCs and a few D-Days since July 2008.

 

I confronted OW in the parking garage of my job shortly after D-Day #1. I hollered at her, cursed her out, call her all kinds of names, made her cry, she swore she would never talk to WH again. She lied.

 

The went deep undercover after D-Day #1. He bought a secret prepaid cell phone. I found it, monitored it for a couple of months, kept a journal on the calls I caught before he erased them. Brought it to his attention, he got rid of it, then got another one and another one.

 

The last cell phone I found, he had texted "Happy New Year Sweetheart". Then I saw a text from her that said "If a relationship has to be a secret, you shouldnt be in it". When WH took a nap, I took the phone from its hiding place, went to our neighborhood bar and commenced to answering her text and subsequent texts as if I was WH. Since she thought she was talking to my WH, I found out some things that he had been lying all along about. The main thing was yes, he's been to her house on a regular basis when he told me he doesnt go to her house. She's single, divorced and lives alone. I never believed him and now I had proof.

 

She got really upset when I (my WH) told her "my wife told all our coworkers that we were having an affair". She was upset by this and said "I knew she was going to do that. She's trying to embarass me and she's just hating on me" WTF!!!!!

 

Anyway, I got home, threw the phone at him and told him I'd had enough, he can have her, I'm not interested in fighting for him or our marriage, I can have a better life than this with someone who wants to be with only me. I said he is dismissed, goodbye, get the #@!% out the house and be with her.

 

After two years he threw her under the bus. Its been 3 months since I said that to him. Last week he volunteered some information. He said "don't get mad, but OW called me today to give her condolences on my father's death". I just said okay. She was fishing and he'd better not get hooked again.

 

I've been saving money and paying off my bills - just in case I throw his butt out for good.

 

I wouldnt be a bit surprised if they are still in contact but he is too afraid of what I'll do if I catch him. Whatever is going on, his whole attitude towards has gotten better. He treats me like a queen and not just a roommate like he used to.

 

We've been married 23 years and I feel like a newlywed right now! But I will quickly turn into a major super bytch if I ever find out he is maintaining contact with her again.

 

One thing I did realize after all this came out. She is needy and lonely and he wants to be needed. I guess I portrayed myself as a "super woman" who didnt need his help so he went outside of the marriage to "help" some other damsel in distress.

 

The only thing I have changed in our marriage is I've given him more responsibility. I include him in bill payment discussions, items that are purchased for the house, activities involving the kids, I make him choose the vacation spots instead of me telling him where we are going. I have asked for more money from his paycheck every two weeks and he just hands over the check and I give him what I think he should have for two weeks and seems to enjoy that. I've even starting cooking dinner at home more instead of picking up take out most days. He now takes more care of the outside of the house and I've now taken more care of the inside of the house.

 

After all these years, we have finally become "partners" of our home and family, instead of ME doing or having things done and him never being home and slipping in the house at the wee hours of the mornings, even on work weeks. He seems to feel like "WE NEED HIM" now and its changed his attitude totally. Maybe thats why OW called him. He probably really stopped calling her.

[Fight4Me]

The thing is, the people involved in such behaviors, whether they be men or women, always MINIMIZE what they are doing, make EXCUSES why they can't or won't stop, and ACT like they don't know what they are doing wrong...

 

But here's the thing...they ALL.... KNOW..... WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG. And that is what they need to be called on. No excuses, stop the BS. Just STOP. Period. I would tell him not to insult my intelligence...

 

I'm in complete agreement with the above.

 

I would start subtle. Think of him like a child... If a child was doing something wrong.... recognize what he is doing right

 

- recognize when he is a great husband (oh baby, thank you so much for dinner. I have such an amazing husband)

- WANT him (OMG... you look so amazing this am)

- WANT him (text him... I can`t wait for you to get home... and follow thru)

-

 

She wants him... she is feeding his ego... YOU do it . . . and he will have no need for her... he innately wants you. I guarantee it. As soon as you start showing him the affection he is getting from her, he will want what he already has... its a simple equation. Feed your marriage.

 

I am an OW, and I have NO doubt that if she saw him before he went to work, and told him how amazing he looks, like I do, or told him how much she appreciates his strength, and charisma... I wouldn`t be here... he wants desperately for his marriage to work out.

 

Love YOUR man. EVERY day - for the qualities that make him a MAN... not a father... or a provider...

 

I don't even know where to begin with this. Honestly, this is nothing but stereotypical drivel against the BS, that she doesn't appreciate him for his strengths, she doesn't love him like she should, doesn't have sex with him, that she only sees/wants him for his paycheck.

 

Your advice contradicts itself all over the place, but especially where you open with "think of him like a child..." but then close with "Love your man... for the qualities that make him a MAN..." Ye gawds, your post was demeaning to not only the BW, but to WH's everywhere.

[2sure]

In my experience as a BS and even more experience as OW:

 

Men do not cheat because they are unhappy with their wives. Men do not cheat because the marriage has issues different than any relationship. Men do not cheat because OW is prettier , more attractive, more attentive, etc etc etc than their wives.

 

They cheat because they want to, because they feel they deserve it, or because they can. Some people are ok with cheating, some arent. Some are ok with it until they get caught.

 

But the thing is, in my experience it has pretty much nothing to do with wives or ow. So, to think it is a competition is just futile. To say - wife should do this or than is bull****. The only thing wife is doing that OW is not - is being married.

[Star727]

Men do not cheat because they are unhappy with their wives.

 

They cheat because they want to, because they feel they deserve it, or because they can.

 

I agree 100% with that. They do it because they can. I gave my WH "free will" to do whatever he wanted - and he did. I cant trust him anymore now because he's not worthy of my blind trust. Maybe one day it will come back - who knows.

 

He tried to blameshift on me for a minute. Saying that "I don't listen to him. I'm always on my laptop and half listen to what he's saying". Well, I did but thats not an excuse to cheat. Hell, he talked non-stop all the time. If I listened to every word he said intently, I would never get anything done! That was just an excuse he tried to use for having his affair.

 

Then he had the nerve to minimize the affair. How do you minimize a 10 year relationship with a fellow coworker - who I speak and talk to on a regular basis? He threw her under the bus with "she's nobody I'd want to marry", "she's selfish and only think about herself", "she's nothing", etc.

 

She had to be worth something for him to maintain a relationship with her for 10 years - who is he fooling? He also mentioned "its an ego thing". The OW is one of those women who's well endowed topside, wears short skirts, fancy hairdos, and loves to flaunt in front of the guys at work and they like looking. So now, his "EGO" is saying to the guys, "I tapped that" and he thinks he's all that.

 

She's single, divorced and lives alone and got to be pretty lonely if she has spent most of her time waiting on him to come by and call. She couldnt have had another man in her life because from the detailed cell phone bills for two years (all I can prove), he called her 5-7 times a day, 7 days a week. Early morning and very very late at night on weekends. I cant believe she had a man over and my WH is calling her with such regularity and for so long.

 

Thats a terrible life to live - putting all your eggs in a married man's basket. And a lonely life.

[bentnotbroken]

I'm gonna call bulls*it on this. Basically this is saying that the poor man can't be held responsible for his actions and the whole problem is the spouse's fault. This is both misguided and insulting.

 

OP- You've done nothing wrong. Your husband is the one responsible for his bad behavior. Set your boundaries and stick to them. Make sure there are concrete consequences for slip ups, and enforce those consequences. He knows what he's doing is wrong.

 

 

Double bull mess. OP, pay attention to the bolded.

[adecadelost]

Thanks everyone for your comments. We did make it to a MC session. Basically my husband is not sure if he wants to be married anymore and wants a "break" to think about it. He has not stopped his EA of course, and his EA will now probably turn into a PA if it hasn't already.

 

So, we're separating.

 

I will be moving out, hopefully on June 1st.

[Owl]

Consult a lawyer before you move out.

 

Moving out can lead to some legal repercussions if you're not careful.

 

If you move out as part of the seperation, you could well be giving up rights to the home, contents, child custody, etc...

 

Leaving sets a precedent that many judges will continue, regardless of what you want.

 

Talk with a lawyer, learn the laws of your state, and get a good game plan in place before you do anything.

[adecadelost]

We don't own a home, we have a month-to-month lease on an apartment.

 

We don't have children.

 

We don't have assets (no cars, no 401Ks, no mutual funds, etc) and our joint account is empty.

 

The only things I want, I will take when I leave. (It isn't much we live in a 1 bedroom apartment and we had just moved here and started from scratch) And if for some reason he wants my clothes and this bed if we come to divorce, he can have it.

 

I will be speaking with a lawyer, but it won't necessarily be before I leave. I must go.

 

NOW.

 

Our state does not have court-ordered legal separations. If you do not live together for 6 months (without children) or 1 year (with children) you are considered separated, and after that time you can file for a "no-fault" divorce.