AD1980 Posted April 24, 2010 Posted April 24, 2010 While i dont agree with what Nelly did at all hes a clown im sick of people blaming music and the media for their own lack of parenting for why their kids an f up.. Its lazy parenting..The fact that so many negative things are in music and media should be used as a good parenting lesson where parents can tell their kids how certain things are wrong. Instead lazy parents want tv and music to raise their children and keep them in a sheltered bubble instead so they dont have to talk about tough taboo subjects. Tryign to shelter kids from the world and pretend these thigns dotn exist do more harm then good
Woggle Posted April 24, 2010 Posted April 24, 2010 While i dont agree with what Nelly did at all hes a clown im sick of people blaming music and the media for their own lack of parenting for why their kids an f up.. Its lazy parenting..The fact that so many negative things are in music and media should be used as a good parenting lesson where parents can tell their kids how certain things are wrong. Instead lazy parents want tv and music to raise their children and keep them in a sheltered bubble instead so they dont have to talk about tough taboo subjects. Tryign to shelter kids from the world and pretend these thigns dotn exist do more harm then good Very true. I also find it ironic that this comes from the same people who used to listen to Ozzy Osbourne and hair metal bands.
Mr White Posted April 24, 2010 Posted April 24, 2010 (edited) While i dont agree with what Nelly did at all hes a clown im sick of people blaming music and the media for their own lack of parenting for why their kids an f up.. Its lazy parenting..The fact that so many negative things are in music and media should be used as a good parenting lesson where parents can tell their kids how certain things are wrong. Instead lazy parents want tv and music to raise their children and keep them in a sheltered bubble instead so they dont have to talk about tough taboo subjects. Tryign to shelter kids from the world and pretend these thigns dotn exist do more harm then good Fully agreed. At the end of the day, X% of the population has poor character/morals and they will act accordingly no matter what - and that's exactly what explains the strong demand for low-class entertainment. To say that this is all "due to the media", is nothing but professing from your high horse and having a self-serving agenda. A solution to social problems involves improving the institutions and the social conditions, not selectively picking the most "safe" targets. And what is safer than ****ting on the media rather than facing the core problems? This is really no different than recycling your aluminum cans but objecting to wind power turbines because it'll "spoil the view". In a free society, EVERYBODY is upset by something somebody else does. It's inevitable. But to behave poorly and to implicitly claim "so and so made me/him do it" is the definition of irresponsibility. Conversely, pointing to problematic cultural messages for the sake of it implies "give me preferential treatment - because, you see, how hard things are for us!". Okay, if so, I want preferential treatment because of shows like "Everybody loves Raymond", "According to Jim", "Married with children", "Yes, Dear". etc. etc. etc. etc. Edited April 24, 2010 by Mr White
AD1980 Posted April 24, 2010 Posted April 24, 2010 Very true. I also find it ironic that this comes from the same people who used to listen to Ozzy Osbourne and hair metal bands. That is ironic..Amazing once some people become parents they completely change their tune and its societys job to rasie their kids..
AD1980 Posted April 24, 2010 Posted April 24, 2010 Fully agreed. At the end of the day, X% of the population has poor character/morals and they will act accordingly no matter what - and that's exactly what explains the strong demand for low-class entertainment. To say that this is all "due to the media", is nothing but professing from your high horse and having a self-serving agenda. A solution to social problems involves improving the institutions and the social conditions, not selectively picking the most "safe" targets. And what is safer than ****ting on the media rather than facing the core problems? This is really no different than recycling your aluminum cans but objecting to wind power turbines because it'll "spoil the view". In a free society, EVERYBODY is upset by something somebody else does. It's inevitable. But to behave poorly and to implicitly claim "so and so made me/him do it" is the definition of irresponsibility. Conversely, pointing to problematic cultural messages for the sake of it implies "give me preferential treatment - because, you see, how hard things are for us!". Okay, if so, I want preferential treatment because of shows like "Everybody loves Raymond", "According to Jim", "Married with children", "Yes, Dear". etc. etc. etc. etc. So true.. Plus some people are just bad seeds..You could lock them in a room and shelter them from everyhting and theyd still be bad..Tv or music doesnt make people bad its just another tool used by bad people that shows that side of a person.. Bad parenting,lack of two family homes or having two parents who dont care are way more dangerous then a song or tv show..
Woggle Posted April 24, 2010 Posted April 24, 2010 That is ironic..Amazing once some people become parents they completely change their tune and its societys job to rasie their kids.. Very true. I will never get like that.
Author marsle85 Posted April 25, 2010 Author Posted April 25, 2010 So true.. Plus some people are just bad seeds..You could lock them in a room and shelter them from everyhting and theyd still be bad..Tv or music doesnt make people bad its just another tool used by bad people that shows that side of a person.. Bad parenting,lack of two family homes or having two parents who dont care are way more dangerous then a song or tv show.. Don't underestimate the power of media. Watching aggressive television is shown to causally increase aggression in children. We are not above our environment. While other factors (like poor parenting) may have a more significant effect, the presence of other variables can increase the impact twofold.
shadowofman Posted April 25, 2010 Posted April 25, 2010 Most children today are actually being raised by their TVs. From PBS to MTV. Our brains learn by observing others.
Mr White Posted April 25, 2010 Posted April 25, 2010 (edited) Most children today are actually being raised by their TVs. From PBS to MTV. Our brains learn by observing others. While I don't agree with the causality above, the important thing is that there are ALSO plenty of positive messages and images on TV - PBS, NATGEO, DISCOVERY, HISTORY, ANIMAL PLANET, HALLMARK, TVLAND, etc. all are hardly channels that encourage any "poor behaviors." That's really my problem with "blaming the media". The most important thing to remember is that "the media" broadcasts whatever there is already a DEMAND for. "FOX news" did not turn Americans "into" right wing nutjobs. "FOX news" started because many Americans ARE right wing nuts . Similarly, instances of abusive sexual acts abound through history - TV or no TV. Blaming it all on the media is just the good ol victim stance turned into agenda through selective observation. Edited April 25, 2010 by Mr White
Author marsle85 Posted April 25, 2010 Author Posted April 25, 2010 Let me guess... another statistic. Yeah, I went around and asked my other four close-minded friends what they thought. Get off my thread.
Engadget Posted April 25, 2010 Posted April 25, 2010 Video groupies invite this type of behavior, it's detailed in numerous books by women who do it. While it is pretty weird, and Nelly is to blame for sure, the women do it for the money and many sleep with every famous rapper to make a name for themselves.
Pfiend101 Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 I will post wherever I want. You don't own any thread on this board young lady.
Jersey Shortie Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 I just thought of this. It's interesting that most of us can agree that women are objectified in music videos and other hyper-sexualized media and the message is bad but how does porn fit into all this in comparison? While i dont agree with what Nelly did at all hes a clown im sick of people blaming music and the media for their own lack of parenting for why their kids an f up.. Its lazy parenting..The fact that so many negative things are in music and media should be used as a good parenting lesson where parents can tell their kids how certain things are wrong. I think there is a certain amount of laziness in putting all the responsiblity on parents. Now I agree that parents have responsibility to teach their kids morals. And I do agree that we do have some lazy parenting today. However, it's way too easy and lazy itself to say, "heck it's all the parents fault and it's perfectly okay to have these images out there and the world would be perfect if only someone else (IE parents) did something about it." Bullcrap. It's not that simple. I also think there needs to be a distinction between agreeing that something as *wrong* but also being titlated enough by it to look, stare, smile and get some kind of enjoyment from it. Nelly made money becaues people got enjoyment from his works. And not just by parents who didn't teach their kids right from wrong. Just how many men were probably titlated by the image of a nearly naked women being viewed as an ATM? How many fathers? Brothers? Husbands? You speak a big game by saying it's all on the parents but it's not that simple of an issue. The attitude that it's someone else's job and responsiblity is the exact attitude that got us here. You have to acknowledge the messages that popular media is sending out. You can't get enjoyment from something and use it, thus giving it popularity; and then turn around and say it's okay to view as long as you have *morals* and you see the right from wrong. You are still contributing to the messages being put out if you give it attention. We can sit here and blame kids and parents but maybe we should look at ourselves and see how we contribute to it all. when we see a woman being objectified, do we enjoy it? Or do we turn away and practice those same morals you seem to be telling parents need to teach kids? It can be an ulgy reflection of society. These images are put out there because they work. What does that say about us? And while parents can teach their kids values and respect, they don't stop living in an over saturated media world that sends them messages consistantly. That's the reality. It's not so simple as "oh just teach them that these things aren't right but it's okay to view these things and have them out there and that's what respecting women is about."
Jersey Shortie Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 Mr.White: Life is hard - both for women AND men. Get over it. Quit the whining, and then maybe I'll reciprocate with more cooperation (which I already gladly do in the instances when I'm not provoked). I'll remember this next time you post about your frustration with women and dating. We shoudl tell you to just "get over it" and "quit the whining..."
sweetjasmine Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 It's not just lazy parenting and music videos. It's everywhere. What are you going to do? Blindfold your kids so they don't see magazines in the checkout aisle at the supermarket? Forbid them from seeing any movie or TV show, ever? Follow them around so you can control what their friends say to them? Some of these attitudes are deeply embedded in the culture. You can't escape them no matter how active a role you take as a parent. My 10 year old niece keeps telling me she's fat and overweight. She's not. All she watches is the Disney channel, cartoons, and High School Musical, yet she's still picking up on the very, very clear message that super thin = good and that you're worthless if you're not a stick figure. It doesn't have anything to do with lazy parenting. These attitudes are everywhere, and kids aren't stupid. They're going to pick up on it even if you don't let them watch MTV and R-rated movies.
Woggle Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 How about teaching kids to think for themselves and not believe everything the media tells them? Also why not teach them to seperate between reality and fantasy?
sweetjasmine Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 How about teaching kids to think for themselves and not believe everything the media tells them? Also why not teach them to seperate between reality and fantasy? And, gee, how do you do that? It's not just media. It's cultural. Or do you think that it's only in the media that thinness gets praised and fat gets ridiculed, as an example? Is it only in the media and in fantasy that women are valued primarily for their looks? Is it only in the media that men are expected to be tough and powerful studs? What's "fantasy" about thin = beautiful? Nothing. Most people f-ing believe it and live it.
Woggle Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 And, gee, how do you do that? It's not just media. It's cultural. Or do you think that it's only in the media that thinness gets praised and fat gets ridiculed, as an example? Is it only in the media and in fantasy that women are valued primarily for their looks? Is it only in the media that men are expected to be tough and powerful studs? What's "fantasy" about thin = beautiful? Nothing. Most people f-ing believe it and live it. I never said it was only in the media but this is precisely where independent thinking comes in. Teach kids from a young age not to let some model who starves herself dictate what beauty is. We live in a conformist society that values status so people will follow those who have it. Change this type of thinking around. The media and entertainment are simply a reflection of the culture and not the cause of it.
sweetjasmine Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 I never said it was only in the media but this is precisely where independent thinking comes in. Teach kids from a young age not to let some model who starves herself dictate what beauty is. We live in a conformist society that values status so people will follow those who have it. Change this type of thinking around. The media and entertainment are simply a reflection of the culture and not the cause of it. It's not models who starve themselves who dictate what beauty is. It's everyone else. People who are overweight, obese, and morbidly obese are treated differently by just about everyone, and in a lot of cases, people don't even realize that's what they're doing. People who are beautiful are treated differently, too. And women are judged and valued primarily by their looks -- by men and women. It's easy to say "teach your kids independent thinking!" but those societal pressures are pretty strong. I agree that the media are mostly a reflection of culture, but that completely undermines your complaint about lazy parenting. If it's not media but culture in general, then how are lazy parents who plop their kids in front of the TV any more to blame than parents who let their kids interact with the outside world?
Woggle Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 It's not models who starve themselves who dictate what beauty is. It's everyone else. People who are overweight, obese, and morbidly obese are treated differently by just about everyone, and in a lot of cases, people don't even realize that's what they're doing. People who are beautiful are treated differently, too. And women are judged and valued primarily by their looks -- by men and women. It's easy to say "teach your kids independent thinking!" but those societal pressures are pretty strong. I agree that the media are mostly a reflection of culture, but that completely undermines your complaint about lazy parenting. If it's not media but culture in general, then how are lazy parents who plop their kids in front of the TV any more to blame than parents who let their kids interact with the outside world? That again is an example of a status obsessed society. In many cases these parents are just as bad the media they deride. They want their Mcmansions and their designer clothes and their expensive cars in order to keep up with the Jonses. Mom is out getting botox and dad is out getting some sports car he can't really afford. Where do you think the younger generation gets it from? They can blame their kid's entertainment all they want but they are the me generation of the 70s and 80s who created the shallow and vapid culture we live in today. You have no choice but to let your kids interact with the outside world but if parents teach their kids the right values from the start then they will be much better off.
sweetjasmine Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 That again is an example of a status obsessed society. Every society is "status obsessed". The metric for determining status is what varies. In many cases these parents are just as bad the media they deride. There you go blaming the parents again. In some cases, that's true, but in other cases, it isn't. You have no choice but to let your kids interact with the outside world but if parents teach their kids the right values from the start then they will be much better off. I agree, but sometimes parents teaching their kids the right values isn't enough.
Jersey Shortie Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 Kids are a reflection of society. Not the other way around. With that said, I think it's all too easy to sit on high horses and puffed out chests and say it's all the parents faults and if they would only do x,y and z society would be so much better. I tend to agree with what SJ is putting down. You can't teach kids that looking at Brittney Spears is wrong with little Jenny's daddy is oggling Brittney. Not only parents need to practice what they preach. But if you posted in this thread about teaching the right values, I hope you also practice the right values and don't buy into what the media tells you. Somehow though, we all buy into what the media says because it's a combination on playing on human desire nad over the top fantasism.
silic0ntoad Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 Nelly is a two-bit scumbag with something to prove. So, since he can't rap, I guess he figures he'll be the marylin manson of the rap world. Either way you slice it, there's no need for people to come in here trying to play the rape-denial card. It happens, alot. I'd be willing to say that while 20% may seem high, I am sure a small portion may be misinterpretation on both parties (Drunk people who bang then claim rape the next day) but otherwise alot of women are raped in college. It happens. No need to downplay it, or try to say "But us men have to make XXX to be valued" only to draw focus back on men's suffering. IMHO, both parties (Men and Women) devalue each other through the malicious use of the media. Suck it up, we're all users and defacers, and no sex is more innocent then the other.
sweetjasmine Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 You can't teach kids that looking at Brittney Spears is wrong with little Jenny's daddy is oggling Brittney. Well, not just that. I mean, even if Jenny's daddy doesn't ogle Britney or think she's attractive, when Jenny goes out in public and sees how the young, thin girl in a super short mini-skirt and heels is turning heads and getting attention, she's going to pick up on that. When she sees older girls dressing like that, she's going to think it's cool. When she sees the same clothes on a rack in the store, she's going to want them. Even a kid with conservative parents who instill conservative values in their children isn't going to be immune from that sort of thing. IMHO, both parties (Men and Women) devalue each other through the malicious use of the media. Yup. Suck it up, we're all users and defacers, and no sex is more innocent then the other. If you're looking at it today and here, that's true. If you're looking at it historically and cross-culturally, then, no, females tend to be on the receiving end of it the majority of the time.
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