Am I healing, or am I done?

[Cuernos]

Having a bit of a hard time here...

 

I posted a thread a few months ago looking for input, and got some good input from both sides of the issue. It was a little sidetracked by an ancillary issue, but overall it was good.

 

So here we are a few months down the road, and I'm kind of a mess.

 

The short version: Married 5 years, together 9. Wife has cheated throughout the course of our relationship, off and on, we've never sought counseling or anything. Always a reconciliation with promises that it wouldn't ever happen again, always "one more last chance", and always a broken promise. I'd actually gotten to the point where I had almost made peace with the idea that I'd never have a faithful wife.

 

So things came to a head, and we seriously discussed splitting up as a mutual decision. We went around and around with it, drew out the discussion for a week, and finally decided to stick it out and make a go of it. At that point, I was invested 100%. I was committed to making it work and I was completely on board.

 

Two weeks later she had slept screwed around twice again.

 

So I said I'm done, I'm out of here. At the moment I made that decision I felt like a great weight was off my shoulders. It was a huge boost to my self-esteem. She became hysterical and made a self-injurious gesture which required me to attend to her. In a moment of weakness I told her if she'd go to therapy we'd "see what happens".

 

Fast forward four months... We went to therapy, and the therapist pretty much decided that she needed individual therapy more than we needed couples counseling, so I've just been going to check in once a month. She's being a perfect wife, seems to be getting some real benefit from the therapy, and no cheating under my hyper-vigilant watch.

 

The problem? I hate myself for being here. I'm ok as long as I'm just in the moment, but the instant I think about what happened (and there's no shortage of public reminders of splits caused by infidelity), I feel like the worlds biggest sucker.

 

I know I'm not being a good husband because I'm emotionally checked out, and I know that I'm setting the scene for her to cheat again because of a lack of attention. I can look at her and know on an intellectual level that she's a very attractive woman, but when she comes to be looking for affection or attention, all I feel is annoyed. It's not like I hate her or anything... I do appreciate the fact that for the first time ever she seems to be invested in making the relationship work. But I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

My self-esteem is shot. All I can think about is how my friends and family would react and advise me if they knew, what I would advise a friend or family member in the same situation, and it isn't to stay and keep trying.

 

She's ready to give up, based upon her "needs" not being fulfilled while I'm processing whatever it is I'm processing. I'm sure you can imagine my thoughts on that. I stay, and I'm not sure why. Is it because of my crappy self esteem? Is it, as I say, because I have a sense of responsibility to give a 9 year relationship every chance I can, especially now that she seems to be trying? Am I getting better, or was that "last straw" really the last straw?

 

What do I feel? I don't feel much of anything, really.

[whichwayisup]

Once she's stable enough and had a good amount of therapy under her belt, tell her that you're not happy. Tell her what you've said here..

 

She has killed off alot in the marriage, that love and care you once felt for her. She manipulated you by hurting herself. Whether or not that was intentional, planned out or just raw emotion and she had a break-down, only she knows that ... You feel obligated, and what you're doing by sticking with her during this time IS a good thing, even though it's killling you inside.

 

Maybe go to counselling on your own, to talk to someone so you can sort out how you feel. It is possible that you've reached your enough is enough phase and no matter what she does, no matter how hard she tries to connect with you again, it may be too late...

[califnan]

I think you have every reason to not trust her, even though now that she is in counseling - she is acting repentant..

 

How can you forgive a person whom you have given your heart to, time after time - and she cheats on you ..

 

It may seem that you should forgive and trust her one more time, but I think the two of you need a separation to sort things out - to Know if the two of you have such a love that you cannot live without each other - otherwise, why bother to keep going on in this direction..

[MadMission]

She's ready to give up, based upon her "needs" not being fulfilled while I'm processing whatever it is I'm processing. I'm sure you can imagine my thoughts on that. I stay, and I'm not sure why. Is it because of my crappy self esteem? Is it, as I say, because I have a sense of responsibility to give a 9 year relationship every chance I can, especially now that she seems to be trying? Am I getting better, or was that "last straw" really the last straw?

 

In this quote, you said 'SHE is ready to give up based upon HER 'needs' not being filled.' Then you followed that statement with 'she now seems to be trying.'

Sooo...what is it she is trying???....to see if YOU are able to meet HER needs???? THAT is what it sounds like. Do you see how messed up that is? So, HER version of trying...is to see IF you can meet her needs. And, if not??? She's done?? Wow...that just reeks of unbelievable selfishness.

 

This may sound harsh, but I think you need this reality check: If your W has "cheated off and on throughout your 9 yr relationship," then you NEVER really HAD a marriage. That is the reality of your situation. You are with a woman who has never really been with you. It sounds like she's had lots of men....lots of relationships... in the last 9 years, and you are just one of many. So, what are you holding on to? She was never exclusively yours...except for maybe brief periods between other men.

Your "marriage" has been full of betrayal, lies, deception, manipulation, disrespect, hurt, disloyalty, sneakiness, etc.

 

Ask yourself: What do we have together? What is so wonderful about her? So special about the marriage?

 

What are you holding on to?

[califnan]

And to add to Madmission.. Love is supposed to unconditional .. not a daily trying to live to her expectations.. A little late to try to please her?

[Chrome Barracuda]

As cold blooded as what im about to say may be:

 

I would have watched her kill herself and called the cops and walked out the door waiting for her to die.

 

She called your bluff.

 

She knew you would save her, she was playing a suicide angle and you fell for it. hook line and sinker. After all she done how can you still be there? She wants you to meet her emotional needs when YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE?

 

C'mon son, you can do better. And what makes her think you want to remain her husband. File for divorce and have her served! she has TOO many mental issues and it's putting your life at risk now too, what's next double suicide, posion pills in your food and drink because you are leaving her.

 

Dude get out now!

[cyabye]

Your low self esteem is keeping you there. After 9 years of being with this so called "woman" your self esteem tanked and you settled for her as the norm.

 

Listen to me. This is identical to my "marriage". IT'S NOT WORTH IT. I had children with this person so it made it more complicated and in the end, she left again as I did not have enough self esteem and did not want to hurt my kids. I was a sucker. Just how you feel.

 

She will not change. She is a whore. Nothing more (harsh reality my friend). Not sure how many men she's slept with in her time but I am sure it's plenty. You will NEVER meet her needs. Let me guess, she always tells you you don't make her happy. Right? Do yourself a favor. LEAVE and DIVORCE. You may not feel like it's better for you now but you will in the long run.

 

Next time she threatens suicide, call the police and let them deal with it. By law they will have to bring her to the hospital (at least) for an evaluation. After that. LEAVE. I hope this helps.

 

Cya

[Spark1111]

You have reached the "plain of emotional flatness;" not allowing yourself to believe or feel anything.

 

It is self-protective and exceedingly normal and healthy.

 

Instead of spending anymore time investing in IF she will change her behavior or not, you have taken a healthy.....not sure I care anymore attitude.

 

Stick with it. It preserves you and your feelings from further pain.

 

If, and only if, you see long-term, sustainable changes in behavior towards you and your feelings, then let the wall down an inch at a time.

 

But for now, make your life about you my friend. And only you.

 

What makes you happy, fulfilled, respected, satisfied?

 

Start filling your own needs, expanding your life with the expectation that she may never be able to do so.

 

Then you'll figure it out.

[reservoirdog1]

You've gotten some pretty solid advice here, my friend.

 

The reason she keeps cheating is that she knows she CAN without you leaving her. Sounds like that's been demonstrated many times. Which means that she's not going to change. You've emotionally checked out -- who could possibly blame you? She's desecreted your relationship repeatedly. It's a soulless, dead hulk. Her promises of fidelity mean nothing. No wonder your self-esteem is in the toilet.

 

So I said I'm done, I'm out of here. At the moment I made that decision I felt like a great weight was off my shoulders. It was a huge boost to my self-esteem. She became hysterical and made a self-injurious gesture which required me to attend to her. In a moment of weakness I told her if she'd go to therapy we'd "see what happens".

 

That was a mistake, but you already know that. The fact that you felt a huge burst of self-esteem when you told her it was over should tell you a LOT. That was you taking back the power that she's held over you, and taking control of your life. Felt great, didn't it? Don't you want to have that again? Imagine having that sense of power again and walking out into the world, being free to pick your own destiny, and not have to give a tinker's damn about who she's screwing on the side.

 

I know I'm not being a good husband because I'm emotionally checked out, and I know that I'm setting the scene for her to cheat again because of a lack of attention. I can look at her and know on an intellectual level that she's a very attractive woman, but when she comes to be looking for affection or attention, all I feel is annoyed. It's not like I hate her or anything... I do appreciate the fact that for the first time ever she seems to be invested in making the relationship work. But I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

Wow, she's really got you under her thumb... she repeatedly takes a shyt all over your relationship, and YOU'RE the one who feels bad about "not being a good husband".

 

Try to envision spending the next 40 years waiting for that shoe to drop. Or, more like, for a few dozen shoes to drop. You'll be miserable, not only at your situation, but with the idea of looking back at your life and realizing the opportunities you denied yourself to build a rich and fulfilling life, not just for yourself but with another partner who's actually committed to you. Very attractive women are a dime a dozen.

 

She's ready to give up, based upon her "needs" not being fulfilled while I'm processing whatever it is I'm processing. I'm sure you can imagine my thoughts on that. I stay, and I'm not sure why. Is it because of my crappy self esteem? Is it, as I say, because I have a sense of responsibility to give a 9 year relationship every chance I can, especially now that she seems to be trying? Am I getting better, or was that "last straw" really the last straw?

This is the part of your post that actually made me mad. "Her needs" not being fulfilled while you're processing the fact that, on a huge level, she doesn't give a shyt about you? WTF?!?!?

 

You HAVE given it every chance. And she's repeatedly demonstrated that it doesn't matter. Sooner or later, you have to make decisions for YOU.

 

For god's sake, get out now. Your marriage is dead. Don't rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic. Grab a lifeboat while there's still one left, lower it to the water, and paddle to freedom. Your life awaits.

[Samantha0905]

Having a bit of a hard time here...

 

I posted a thread a few months ago looking for input, and got some good input from both sides of the issue. It was a little sidetracked by an ancillary issue, but overall it was good.

 

So here we are a few months down the road, and I'm kind of a mess.

 

The short version: Married 5 years, together 9. Wife has cheated throughout the course of our relationship, off and on, we've never sought counseling or anything. Always a reconciliation with promises that it wouldn't ever happen again, always "one more last chance", and always a broken promise. I'd actually gotten to the point where I had almost made peace with the idea that I'd never have a faithful wife.

 

So things came to a head, and we seriously discussed splitting up as a mutual decision. We went around and around with it, drew out the discussion for a week, and finally decided to stick it out and make a go of it. At that point, I was invested 100%. I was committed to making it work and I was completely on board.

 

Two weeks later she had slept screwed around twice again.

 

I'm surprised you stayed at all. Why would you make peace with yourself you have a cheating wife? What is your motivation for staying with someone who is a serial cheater? Don't you think you deserve better?

 

So I said I'm done, I'm out of here. At the moment I made that decision I felt like a great weight was off my shoulders. It was a huge boost to my self-esteem.

I can imagine.

 

She became hysterical and made a self-injurious gesture which required me to attend to her. In a moment of weakness I told her if she'd go to therapy we'd "see what happens".

Well, I can certainly see why that would cause a moment of weakness. You had already given her chance after chance on the infidelity issue and if you have that type of heart -- watching someone try to injure themselves could only cause a lot of trauma and a need to care for them.

 

Fast forward four months... We went to therapy, and the therapist pretty much decided that she needed individual therapy more than we needed couples counseling, so I've just been going to check in once a month. She's being a perfect wife, seems to be getting some real benefit from the therapy, and no cheating under my hyper-vigilant watch.

Did the therapist seem to think she was beyond the self-injury stage? Did she end up being hospitalized for the self-injury? I'm only asking because a lady at my husband's work attempted suicide and they put her in the mental hospital for a few weeks and now she is receiving continuous therapy.

 

If she is to the state of not being suicidal (hopefully), she is probably able to take care of herself. Many people who attempt suicide don't really want to die. It's attention seeking, which is what the affairs appear to be. Hopefully, the counselor is helping her with that.

 

The problem? I hate myself for being here. I'm ok as long as I'm just in the moment, but the instant I think about what happened (and there's no shortage of public reminders of splits caused by infidelity), I feel like the worlds biggest sucker.

That seems only natural given the situation.

 

I know I'm not being a good husband because I'm emotionally checked out, and I know that I'm setting the scene for her to cheat again because of a lack of attention.

It doesn't sound like you've been a bad husband in any way, shape or form. If you're distant because of all the drama and infidelities -- give yourself the right to be that way guilt free.

 

I can look at her and know on an intellectual level that she's a very attractive woman, but when she comes to be looking for affection or attention, all I feel is annoyed. It's not like I hate her or anything... I do appreciate the fact that for the first time ever she seems to be invested in making the relationship work. But I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

It sounds like you finally need a break. You've been pretty strong. You deserve a break.

 

My self-esteem is shot. All I can think about is how my friends and family would react and advise me if they knew, what I would advise a friend or family member in the same situation, and it isn't to stay and keep trying.

 

She's ready to give up, based upon her "needs" not being fulfilled while I'm processing whatever it is I'm processing.

It doesn't sound like she is learning much in counseling if that's the case. It really sounds like she has some severe issues.

 

I'm sure you can imagine my thoughts on that. I stay, and I'm not sure why. Is it because of my crappy self esteem? Is it, as I say, because I have a sense of responsibility to give a 9 year relationship every chance I can, especially now that she seems to be trying? Am I getting better, or was that "last straw" really the last straw?

 

What do I feel? I don't feel much of anything, really.

Are you getting any individual counseling? I don't know if you would need it if you could just get up and leave and spend some time being good to yourself. However, if you continue to allow yourself to be treated this way -- you may need some assistance.

 

I can only make a suggestion based on what you've shared here -- but it really sounds like you need to leave and work on repairing your own self-esteem.

[ConflictedGuy27]

Resevoirdog, Chrome and the rest are giving you sound advise.

You know what you have to do, which is why you started this thread.

 

I'm freshly out of a similar situation (my STBX cheated and ran off with the guy for weeks at a time) and trust me, I'm way better off now (certainly in an emotional & self esteem sense) and you will be too.

 

I'm sure I'm not alone when I tell you, I didn't want to file and divorce my STBX, but I did - because she went too far.

 

Your STBX has clearly demonstrated how little she cares for you and your M together... My God man, she's voluntarily given her body to other men, knowing full well that you'd still be there, so long as her excuse was good enough (I.e. I'm going to kill myself if...).

 

This is the maddening part: even if she never cheats again, you'll never stop asking yourself if she is. Your state of hyper vigulence will never be over. She literally shattered all trust, which is the ultimate foundation in a R.

 

You must ask yourself if living the rest of your life this way is your idea of a good life. Unless you're a machochist, I believe we all know that staying is losing proposition.

 

Don't take our word for it though, get some weekly IC and share your thoughts with them. If you get a good counselor, my hunch is they'll focus the sessions more on you, as opposed to engineering tactics to help you recon with your STBX.

 

Good luck, my friend.

[jmargel]

Look up the five stages of grief it's something you are going through. You have become emotionally numb because it has become an expectation of what will happen in the future.

 

This expectation is brought upon a lack of trust. Kind of like showing a dog a bone, at first the dog will go for it, however if over a couple dozen times of showing the dog the bone and not giving it to him he's not going to expect it anymore. Just like you don't expect things to improve even with the therapy. It's just a matter of time so to speak.

 

You stay because part of you believe there is a potential in her that she can make good decisions. She's not a bad person she just has made some very bad choices. Choices she made where she didn't mean to intentionally hurt you but put her own desires above everything and everyone else.

 

So here you are, married to someone you love, a woman who you know has the potential to be great but a woman that has been known to make some very bad choices. You don't want to see bad things happen to her, but yet as a husband you must stay and protect; you see the dangers in what she is doing.

 

So your emotions play tug-o-war with each other. Enough lying and deceit has created too much water under the bridge.

 

What to do? I believe this is something you need to see an IC for. Divorcing her won't heal you through this. I'm not saying stay with her, i'm saying see an IC so that you get find your own way through this all.

 

Just ask yourself one question: When was the last time you got something truly positive out of your marriage?

[Cuernos]

Wow...

 

Thanks so much to everyone for their input. It's all a lot to digest, and I intend to go through all the posts again, more slowly.

 

One thing I guess is pertinent... I'm a nurse, at the time I had been working in psych for about 5 years. On an intellectual level I know the answers to all my questions, but on an emotional level I feel retarded. Her self-harm gesture was, from my perspective, an out of control exhibition of her mental state, not a calculated intent to manipulate me. It still left me feeling as if I'd been manipulated, however.

 

A call to 911 would have yielded a wife in a psych unit in the same hospital where I worked, being treated by colleagues of mine among whom the news of her identity would have spread like wildfire. It's not supposed to be that way, but that's the way it is. That's what stopped me from going that route.

 

Not excusing anything, her behavior or my response, not at all. Just a necessary clarification.

 

As for the rest... I'm digesting it. I agree individual counseling would be to my advantage.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input, I'll be back.

[seibert253]

I'm sorry but I'll be blunt and very too the point:

She can't be trusted, she's never been able to be.

Why in God's name are you putting yourself through this.

She's never going to change, no matter how much therapy, couseling, whatever.

She needs to go.

You deserve better.

[tnttim]

What about you?

 

Why do you keep coming back when that's all she wants you for. She wants your heart and soul and has done a great job of ripping it out of you. Now you are at the point that instead of fighting for your soul, you just hand it to her. You said it yourself, you feel nothing.

 

I think you really need to address your insercurity with being alone.

 

I am a huge advocate for blaming yourself for others problems. What role are you playing in wife's actions? I can point out a few just from reading your post. You are allowing her to cheat by not leaving her for good. You need to separate for a while so you can separate your problems from her problems. She is running your life and controlling your emotions, and you are letting her.

[jnj express]

She has been cheating on you thru the whole mge.---Why are you still with her at all.

 

How do you look at someone who does that to you?? Why would you want to touch someone who took vows to only be with you---yet has given herself to every tom, dick, and harry. Do you really want to touch a body that has allowed all kinds of men to do whatever they wanted to it. Why would you really still even want to be in the same room with her, much less talk to her.

 

She is hanging on to you cuz you are her financial rock. I don't care what she does in therapy----This is not someone you should want to be with for any reason. She sure doesn't give a hoot about you.

[Cuernos]

Ok.

 

I'm still a sucker because I've been soft-pedaling the subject for several days to kind of soften the blow, but at least we were able to have the conversation as adults once I decided to drop the axe.

 

I'll go tomorrow to see if I can refinance the house in my name alone. If so, she can have her half of the equity and she'll get an apartment (immediately). If not, I'll move out and she'll remain in the home until it sells.

 

At least the therapy and meds allowed her to have a rational conversation with me about it.

 

I appreciate everyone's support and advice.

[jnj express]

If you are really bound and determined to give one last chance, and it should be last and not one more----give her VERY SPECIFIC boundaries, with consequences you will follow thru on, AND make her agree to sign a POST NUPTUAL AGREEMENT, that if she lies, cheats decieves, does ANYTHING out of line whatever terms you set up will go into effect as you process the divorce----this way you will not lose anything to her, and maybe she will think a whole lot harder about infidelity and lying, if she knows SHE WILL WALK AWAY WITH NOTHING