Expectations of men from society

[MrNate]

A lot of times we hear about women and what society expects of them. Like how they have to look a certain way, dress a certain way, etc.

 

But does that mean that men don't also have to deal with pressures from society? I think that a lot of times we have to face many challenges just as women do. The problem is people tend to make it look like men don't have a care in the world when it comes to societal expectations, while it's only women who endure this constant, uphill battle, which is false.

 

What do you think?

[CaliGuy]

A lot of times we hear about women and what society expects of them. Like how they have to look a certain way, dress a certain way, etc.

 

But does that mean that men don't also have to deal with pressures from society? I think that a lot of times we have to face many challenges just as women do. The problem is people tend to make it look like men don't have a care in the world when it comes to societal expectations, while it's only women who endure this constant, uphill battle, which is false.

 

What do you think?

 

I think most men just need to stay in shape and take care of themselves. There is nothing you can do about your height. You can work out and build your body but most men and women are expecting much more of an "ideal" person than they should be expecting.

 

For the most part, if people just work out and take care of themselves (also means eating right) then they'll be fine.

 

If you want a "Brad Pitt" type of guy, go for it. If you want an ideal woman just go for it.

 

Just don't expect the best results

[Stung]

Both sexes endure expectations that do not always sit right for them. Men's roles are often not examined as closely as males (particularly white males) have traditionally occupied a place of privilege by comparison--and still do in many ways although the gap is narrowed considerably from what it once was in many parts of the world. Still, that doesn't mean that constraints society places on men don't chafe.

 

Personally I think the common message that men should be always strong and silent, and compartmentalize/handle their emotions privately, does everyone a great disservice. Men often internalize this and become dissociated from their own emotions, causing themselves psychological damage and creating an emotional/communication rift between many men and women that doesn't need to be there. Meanwhile the men who break out of this conditioning are often derided socially as weak or feminine, when it's actually possible they are simply more personally integrated, more in touch with themselves.

 

This kind of thing isn't spoken about much in the media but is actually being examined pretty closely in almost all of the social sciences.

[sally4sara]

A lot of times we hear about women and what society expects of them. Like how they have to look a certain way, dress a certain way, etc.

 

But does that mean that men don't also have to deal with pressures from society? I think that a lot of times we have to face many challenges just as women do. The problem is people tend to make it look like men don't have a care in the world when it comes to societal expectations, while it's only women who endure this constant, uphill battle, which is false.

 

What do you think?

 

I don't think when people speak of one gender's societal pressures, it necessarily implies they believe the other gender has none. I think that is an assumptive thought.

If you find yourself always hearing things from an assumptive perspective, you may be struggling with your own sexual identity and the struggle manifests by comparing yourself to the opposite gender. It is problematic to define yourself this way. It requires you to expect the opposite gender to never display any similarities to your own gender. This being practically impossible, you always feel challenged.

[espec10001]

Men have to learn how to control their emotions and not let things get to them, to always remain calm and confident in the face of anything. Not easy in the least, but it's what society expects.

[Stung]

Expecting anyone of any gender to be emotionally and sexually one-dimensional and trying to impose that view onto them--it's a bad idea.

[LittleMissWonder]

You are absolutely right.

 

Men and women both are expected to live up to societal standards for their specific sexes.

 

That role is defined unfortunately through media and entertainment.

 

Materialistically, women are expected to look "hot" like the models on TV while men are expected to make a lot of $$$. This is what i believe is pushed in media and sadly, many people internalize these disillusioned concepts of "success".

 

Of course, it goes deeper than just money and looks. But the "role" expected of men and women (according to media) is such a vast topic, I won't even start or I won't be able to stop!

[stillafool]

I've never thought society was easy on men and what they expect from you. They expect you to earn a good pay, be ambitious, take care of a family, marry and be strong. I don't think this is any more fair than what society expects from women. Why can't we all just be individuals?

[espec10001]

Expecting anyone of any gender to be emotionally and sexually one-dimensional and trying to impose that view onto them--it's a bad idea.

 

It's not one dimensional. It's simply being a man. Who do people trust and expect to lead? Someone who is calm and confident and brushes off petty attacks. If you can withstand the words people throw at you and not let them bother you at all, then you are getting closer to being a real man.

[Knittress]

Not to discount the value of the original question, but I think we're going to run into trouble when we talk about 'society' as one monolithic concept. What we really are is a collection of various subcultures, in which the ideal in one frame of reference really doesn't translate into another.

[Crusoe]

Personally I feel no pressure or expectation from society. Its a choice.

[phineas]

I feel no pressure however, I have lost weight & built muscle & I honestly like the way I look in more stylish clothes & most importantly so do the ladies.

[Stung]

It's not one dimensional. It's simply being a man. Who do people trust and expect to lead? Someone who is calm and confident and brushes off petty attacks. If you can withstand the words people throw at you and not let them bother you at all, then you are getting closer to being a real man.

 

 

I would call that being an adult with leadership qualities, not being a man.

[ADF]

I don't think women are saying that men aren't subject to societal pressures. I think they're saying that while the pressures on men have traditionally been acknowledged, the pressures on women have traditionally been ignored. It is only over the last generation or so--i.e. since the rise of the feminist movement--that women's problems have been taken seriously.

[Mr White]

Here's a crazy idea: social expectations and norms are, for the most part, a GOOD thing.

Problems arise when somebody occupying some role doesn't live up to their end of the bargain - e.g. either don't fulfill their responsibilities or abuse their power, or both. Or - they do fulfill their role, but this is not reciprocated by others.

 

The hippie idea that you can be whatever you want has some merits, but for the longest time it has been taken far too literally, and far too... far. Oh well, not surprising from the boomers and their offspring whose worldview preaches that self-gratification, rather than responsibility, is the # 1 priority in life.

 

 

Anybody who sinserely believes that they can be/is "anything", completely free from any social expectations, either reads too many blogs, or needs to go back to college for a basic social science class

Edited April 21, 2010 by Mr White

[ADF]

Here's a crazy idea: social expectations and norms are, for the most part, a GOOD thing.

Problems arise when somebody occupying some role doesn't live up to their end of the bargain - e.g. either don't fulfill their responsibilities or abuse their power, or both. Or - they do fulfill their role, but this is not reciprocated by others.

 

The hippie idea that you can be whatever you want has some merits, but for the longest time it has been taken far too literally, and far too... far. Oh well, not surprising from the boomers and their offspring whose worldview preaches that self-gratification, rather than responsibility, is the # 1 priority in life.

 

 

Anybody who sincerely believes that they can be/is "anything", completely free from any social expectations, either reads too many blogs, or needs to go back to college for a basic social science class

 

The "I can do anything I want" ethos is real enough, and you are right in criticizing it. However, I think you misidentify the real source of the problem. The desire for instant self-gratification isn't a relic of the hippie counterculture. It is a by-product of the all-powerful, all-pervasive "free market."

 

Almost from birth, we are carpet-bombed by an advertising culture that tells us to spend, spend, spend rather than save. The free market glorifies competition at the expense of cooperation. It casts the ruthless pursuit of personal wealth as a virtue and calls it "ambition." It tells us the key to happiness lay not in cultivating meaningful human relationship, but in buying the "best" products. Sorry, but the hippies are not to blame here.

[MrNate]

I don't think women are saying that men aren't subject to societal pressures. I think they're saying that while the pressures on men have traditionally been acknowledged, the pressures on women have traditionally been ignored. It is only over the last generation or so--i.e. since the rise of the feminist movement--that women's problems have been taken seriously.

 

Interesting point.

[MrNate]

I think most men just need to stay in shape and take care of themselves. There is nothing you can do about your height. You can work out and build your body but most men and women are expecting much more of an "ideal" person than they should be expecting.

 

For the most part, if people just work out and take care of themselves (also means eating right) then they'll be fine.

 

If you want a "Brad Pitt" type of guy, go for it. If you want an ideal woman just go for it.

 

Just don't expect the best results

 

 

Honestly, I think getting in shape would solve a lot of problems for most people. The problem is, people take for granted the benefits of being in shape actually provide.

 

And I agree about the Brad Pitt comment as well.

 

Don't expect someone hot, if you don't even bother to take care of yourself. Don't expect someone amazing if you aren't amazing yourself. A lot of people want these sort of things but don't want to pay the price.

[phineas]

Honestly, I think getting in shape would solve a lot of problems for most people. The problem is, people take for granted the benefits of being in shape actually provide.

 

And I agree about the Brad Pitt comment as well.

 

Don't expect someone hot, if you don't even bother to take care of yourself. Don't expect someone amazing if you aren't amazing yourself. A lot of people want these sort of things but don't want to pay the price.

 

I'm almost in shape.

Working hard at it.

 

I'm at the point where the really hot chicks who work out & are into fitness are now talking to me & I KNOW their just waiting to see if I can drop the last few lbs & find my abs before they consider dateing me.

 

and ya know what?

It really doesn't bother me at all.

 

Because since i've been working out & eating healthy I've realized it really isn't all that difficult to live a healthy life style & I want someone who is doing the same.

[espec10001]

Then I'll frequently fail if that's what society expects of me.

 

It takes many failures before you achieve success. That goes for anything in life. It can be no other way. And I am not talking of eliminating the emotions, you cannot do that. What a man should aim for is releasing his emotions in a timed, and preferably private manner. Don't repress emotions, control them.

[Mr White]

The "I can do anything I want" ethos is real enough, and you are right in criticizing it. However, I think you misidentify the real source of the problem. The desire for instant self-gratification isn't a relic of the hippie counterculture. It is a by-product of the all-powerful, all-pervasive "free market."

 

Almost from birth, we are carpet-bombed by an advertising culture that tells us to spend, spend, spend rather than save. The free market glorifies competition at the expense of cooperation. It casts the ruthless pursuit of personal wealth as a virtue and calls it "ambition." It tells us the key to happiness lay not in cultivating meaningful human relationship, but in buying the "best" products. Sorry, but the hippies are not to blame here.

 

Fair enough . I just have a pet peeve about the hippies (typically well-off middle class kids who could AFFORD not to give e ****...). Beyond that, you're right - the consumer culture fuels this problem since it preys on the delusional idea that the easiest way to feed a fantasy about yourself is to buy something that will make you more like your imaginary self. And since you can buy anything, hence the pervasive delusion that "anything is possible"

 

But anyway, with the demise of "roles" and "typical paths" (not a bad thing, but bad when taken to the extreme), people are increasingly lost, atomized, and unable to forge relationships; after all "anything goes", and whenever anything goes, by definition there are no clear milestones and agreed-upon goals.

 

More to the point of expectations of men - by and large the social expectation is that men are pretty much stuck in their traditional roles of strong and providers. I would have no problem with that if the expectation of women had also remained to be subservient and domestic. Since this is clealry not the case, it is basically unfair to keep men pigeonholed in the same role. I have no problem being the classic he-man if I know that when I go home I'm the king - which is where the separation of roles and labor comes in.

 

However, since this is clearly undesirable and mysoginistic (by today's standard), I can clearly no longer have such an expectation (and shouldn't anyway). That's fair, as long as I am also no longer expected to be the "classic man". Instead, I am contemporary man who expects his woman to shoulder half of everything, provide emotional support, and all that. Unfortunately, expecting this gets you in just as much trouble as expecting traditional domestic behaviors from a woman. Hence, the perception of unfair expectations of men.

[threebyfate]

The single most important societal expectation of men is strength, both physical and emotional/intellectual. If you're a weak person, especially emotionally/intellectually, you're not going far in this world.

[Woggle]

More to the point of expectations of men - by and large the social expectation is that men are pretty much stuck in their traditional roles of strong and providers. I would have no problem with that if the expectation of women had also remained to be subservient and domestic. Since this is clealry not the case, it is basically unfair to keep men pigeonholed in the same role. I have no problem being the classic he-man if I know that when I go home I'm the king - which is where the separation of roles and labor comes in.

 

However, since this is clearly undesirable and mysoginistic (by today's standard), I can clearly no longer have such an expectation (and shouldn't anyway). That's fair, as long as I am also no longer expected to be the "classic man". Instead, I am contemporary man who expects his woman to shoulder half of everything, provide emotional support, and all that. Unfortunately, expecting this gets you in just as much trouble as expecting traditional domestic behaviors from a woman. Hence, the perception of unfair expectations of men.

 

I think this is where the fristrations of many men come from. Women are encouraged to outside their traditional roles and there is nothing wrong with that but men are still expected to stay in the old alpha roles we always had. I very favor an equal relationship but if a woman expects me to make all the decisions, pay for everything and provide then it is only fair that she play the traditional role as well. Luckily I have an equal marriage and I know many women who atuclly practice both sides of equality but I find that too often many women want to scream how independent they are but want the benefits of the old ways.

[Disillusioned]

What I dislike most about being a man is that the :bunny:peer pressure doesn't end when school's over with.

 

Women used to be expected to postpone sex until marriage (indeed they weren't even supposed to know how to have sex), but men are still expected to lose their virginity before they're even 18. I've been under a lot of pressure from a few other men to become a sexual performer even though I don't have the least possible use for sex... these guys really try to make an irrefutible case why I should feel like I'm missing something, but it doesn't really work, because how can you feel gypped out of something you don't really want? These guys don't understand that, so they just keep on trying...

 

But OTOH who knows? Maybe sex really will make me an instant millionaire, fix up my house, bring my dead mother back to life, etc.

[pureinheart]

A lot of times we hear about women and what society expects of them. Like how they have to look a certain way, dress a certain way, etc.

 

But does that mean that men don't also have to deal with pressures from society? I think that a lot of times we have to face many challenges just as women do. The problem is people tend to make it look like men don't have a care in the world when it comes to societal expectations, while it's only women who endure this constant, uphill battle, which is false.

 

What do you think?

 

Men could possibly even face more due to the changes such as more women in the workplace, etc.

 

Ok, it's not that I don't "look", although it is different from the way my friends "look". I see the person, as a person period. I might notice something extraordinary like unusually tall or having really thick hair, although never think in the terms of relationship, or would that person be good for me, or sexual thoughts. I know most might say I'm a liar, but that's ok...I really don't think in those terms.

 

Too much emphasis is put on physical appearance, which is causing a lack where matters of the heart are concerned...people have become much more superficial IMO.

 

I think we should take care of ourselves, although if the inside (heart) is right, the rest follows suit.