can serious relationships work as casual ones?

[EthanH]

I just want to ask a hypothetical question:

 

If you are with someone for a year, and it seems serious, but it is too much for one of the couple (who is 19)... do you think it is reasonable that after you break up, you go for a thing which is much more casual, where you can both hook up with other people? I mean, has anyone else done that before? and if so, did it work out? Let me know your thoughts...

[monkeymaid]

dude, you are trying so hard. ...let her go man! its not going to work because you wont go out with oher people and she will. ...shes going to be banging you and every other guy in her path.

 

do something else!!! find a hobby and get pro at it.

 

let her go please!!! stop killing yourself. ...she is gone.

 

learn to be happy alone, then maybe try for a different relationship

[EthanH]

lol...

 

mate, thanks... I wish I hadn't posted on here as much as I have...

 

No i was just thinking... because i think at least initially it is what she had in mind... she said to me on the morning after her drunken kiss with the guy, 'it's weird how single and still close to you seems ok, or is that just me'... and I think she felt that for us to get back together, she needed to start again, so that she would WANT to get back with me, if we had just got back straight out, it would be back to the serious stuff again, i have lost track of how many times she said to me that she wishes we could go back to how we were when we first got together, the first 4 months or so, when it was relaxed and we just had fun, but neither or us went with anyone else... i think that is what she wants...

 

so i ask again, irrelevant of my personal story, can this situation work?

[GrayClouds]

lol...

 

irrelevant of my personal story, can this situation work?

 

You are asking the question so it can not be irrelevant to your personal story. I will prove it to you.

 

Yes it can work, and here is how. Now did you feel your heart quicken, even just a bit when you read that previous sentence. See the question is all about your story.

 

Your mind is still trying to find a way to hold on. Yes it is hard to let go but thought process like this makes it even harder, specially when she is throwing bread crumbs. But stop trying to figure out what she want and figure what, not who, you want.

 

Good Luck.

[EthanH]

I just want to hear from someone who tried a similar thing? I'm not even considering it at the moment, it just made me think when I realised that it was this which she at least had in mind when she asked me if i was ok being single and still being 'close' to her...

[monkeymaid]

what shes doing is keeping you around just in case she doesnt find someone better. ...do you want to put your value in the hands of someone who already wants something else and will settle if she doesnt find it?

 

here is a hypothetical:

 

what if you had like 7 girls chasing after you. ...would you pick just one based on her off kilter need to have you make her feel good about herself?? would you take the responsibilty of keeping her self esteem up?? what if she got upset. what if she needed to be around you or hoer world would fall apart? ..would you do everything in your power to make her feel great 24/7 when there are 6 other girls who want you as much as she does, yet can feel good by them selves when you arent around?? also the 6 others are more fun and bring you into there fun and they come in to your fun! you and the other 6 bounce around and have a great time!!! where as that one is timid and shy and scared to say the wrong thing and needs your approval to have any sort of fun.

 

 

i dont know how else to tell you. ...its time to let her go bro. stop thinknig about hypothetical. there is already a minfduck in the real world to deal with. work in reality. when you figure it out, then go on to hypotheticals.

 

in the mean time, go to the gym. and read...alot!

[monkeymaid]

...oh, and the answer to your question is yes, they can work as lonog as both parties are indifferent of the outcome.

 

 

you are not indifferent, you cannot do it.

 

you are a loving person, you can learn to transfer all this love you have for this girl into love for yourself though!

 

try it. when you are sad about her, do something good for yourself. if you see something you think she might have liked, go buy somoething you might have liked. if you think theres an activity she would have loved, find one you love, and do it

[Citizen Erased]

Essentially it would be a FWB arrangement. Read through all of the FWB threads on here and you will see the disasters they are when one likes the other in a different way to the other. And that's from the ones that start off as FWB, when you've been with someone for a year, you love them...disaster waiting to happen.

 

You want to keep her in whatever way you can in your life. Eventually you'll be jealous and sick of her sleeping with other people and you will walk away from it 100 times more hurt and screwed up than if you just let her go.

 

In short, if you are both in it for sex it can work. Any other reason and no, it won't. You're walking a dangerous line.

[EthanH]

ok so i'm putting this from her side... please feel free to critique this.

 

So she basically last week went back on all of what she had done previously. She went back on everything she had said, everything she had worked for, in order to get over me.

 

I think, in her head, she wants to still be with me, but she doesn't want the serious chat, it isn't that she doesn't want to be with me, or that she wants anyone else. She just doesn't want the times when we sit there and talk about everything, the future, why we did this or that, how strongly we feel etc etc. She wants to have fun, but she wants to have fun with me. And she wants to be sure about me. At the moment, she can't do that, because she knows I'm always going to be there.

 

I think her thinking, her plan (she always has a plan)... was to be close to me... she said she really valued that, but for it not to be serious at the start, because she was scared of us getting back into the serious mode which we had before. I don't think she meant to kiss a guy. And I don't think she even would have told me as it mattered so little to her. You can say it did, and that she still made the choice, but I know when i have had drunken kisses with girls, they have meant nothing. So I think she wanted to see if this could work, if we could have relaxed fun with each other, no stress, and kinda get back to how it was when we first met each other...

[TaraMaiden]

Hypothetical question...?

You're kidding...right?

 

You had a go at me yesterday for criticising your input (I felt, constructively) but you took umbrage. You basically told me, in not as few words, that I was entirely unsympathetic, my response was unwelcome and I could go take a hike.

 

Can you not see now (given that others are now saying the same) that I had a point?

 

Please.

Try taking OUR advice for a change.

 

What you are doing is slashing your arms with a sharp blade, and just as they show signs of healing, opening them up again and making them bleed.

What you think she thinks, and what we think of what you think she thinks, and what you think of what we think of what you think she thinks....

Getting confused yet....? OY....!

Mad, huh?

I told you yesterday, that trying to divine or second-guess somebody else's methodology is utterly, completely self-defeating and pointless....

You need to stop over-thinking this.

It's madness.

It will drive you mad.

And more importantly?

She

Could

care

Less!!!!!

 

isn't that reason enough to stop this mental spaghetti getting even more tangled...??

[EthanH]

The fact is, she does care, that is why she is doing what she is doing. She still cares about me, but feels she has to do this.

 

And i said it was hypothetical because i wasn't thinking of doing it...

 

but i realised that was what she had in mind when we got back together, and i realised... that the fact she kissed a guy, even when she directly told me, it didn't bother me... it wasn't the fact she kissed him, it was the fact that when she told me the day before that i had nothing to worry about... i thought it was her who was saying that she wouldn't do anything... when she told me she wouldn't hurt me again, i thought she was saying she wouldn't do anything... i know how much a drunken pull means... so yeah, it didn't bother me, and despite going on about her so much on this forum, i really do mean that. And I never thought i would say that, but that is how i felt when she told me, and ever since. What bothered me more was that before she told me about kissing this guy, she told me that she didn't think it would work as she thought i wanted it to go back to being serious.

 

What she wanted was to be with me, to be exclusive, and for us to have fun... none of the serious 'lets get stuck in a barbed wire fence of emotions and endless conversations'...

[TaraMaiden]

The fact is, she does care, that is why she is doing what she is doing. She still cares about me, but feels she has to do this.

Which means she doesn't care sufficiently to put you first. She cares up to a point, but anything over that isn't worth the commitment.

 

And i said it was hypothetical because i wasn't thinking of doing it...

my point is, that a hypothetical situation is invented and unrelated to your personal and direct circumstance. this isn't hypothetical....

 

but i realised that was what she had in mind when we got back together, and i realised... that the fact she kissed a guy, (...) it was the fact that when she told me the day before that i had nothing to worry about... ... when she told me she wouldn't hurt me again, i thought she was saying she wouldn't do anything... ....What bothered me more was that before she told me about kissing this guy, she told me that she didn't think it would work as she thought i wanted it to go back to being serious.

 

What she wanted was to be with me, to be exclusive, and for us to have fun... none of the serious 'lets get stuck in a barbed wire fence of emotions and endless conversations'...

 

In other words, she is the classic Ms. Commitment-phobe. She wants you as a GoodFWB.

She wants all the trimmings of a serious committed relationship without it being a seriously committed and exclusive relationship.

She thinks it's perfectly ok - under these circumstances - to hang out and date other guys, with the proviso, of course, thst you are the back-up plan... the 'soft place to fall' when she feels like being propped up.

 

Now...

If you're happy with that, then be her little-side-line phukk-buddy, by all means.

But it sounds to me as if sharing her is not an option you'd relish.

Those are your choices.

go along with what she'd like it to be, or drop this and find somebody who's committed to a serious and exclusive relationship.

Which won't be her.

[northstar1]

Ethan

 

I think you are ignoring or refuting everyone's advice here (and everyone is giving you roughly the same advice) because you are still in denial. It's understandable, it's a stage everyone goes through after a breakup.

 

People are telling you "Look there is a fire" and you are refusing to admit it and still saying "There's no fire, it's just a bit of smoke"

 

None of us know your ex, and we can only go on what you've told us.

 

You ask if you can have a casual with her, when you really want serious. why sell yourself short just to have her in your life?

 

So, if you are going to tell everyone they are wrong, then my suggestion is to go and try and have a casual relationship with her. Don't talk about feelings or the past or what you want or need. Just hang out with her and let her dictate if and when you actually talk about things.

 

And see how good it makes you feel inside to compromise like that.

[EthanH]

ok, well I have seen on here how people write to ask for advice, and they just want someone to say 'it's ok, you will get back with him/her, don't worry, don't cry, it's all going to be fine, you will live happily ever after etc etc etc'... and I know why you might think i sound like i'm in denial...

 

I don't know what I want. I'm 26, but I'm still at college. I like this girl, I really do, but I have never allowed myself to see it going any further than the summer, we are both back here after the summer, so who knows, but i never allowed myself to see it as long term...the fact she is 19... it is a massive fact, and I like her enough to know she needs to meet other guys in order to grow as a person, and, not entirely cleverly, I have told her that. One of the main things people said to her when we were dating, girls who said i was the best bf they knew, was that she wouldn't realise how great I was until she met someone else... sure she would have a honeymoon period, you always do, but in the long term, I think she would realise how good i was for her.

 

I don't know where I thought our relationship was going. But all I know, was when she told me about kissing the guy on wednesday night, after we had slept together on wednesday afternoon, my main reason for being upset wasn't the guy, it was what she said about me before. I honestly didn't care about her kissing a guy while drunk. It feels weird to admit that, but it is true. I don't know, I know it is a minefield, part of me feels if we were casual, she would hate it as she would realise that i was attractive to other girls and she would start getting jealous. Part of me feels that if i said ok go for it, in many ways she wouldn't, she told me the only reason she has done what she has done is to try and get over me.

 

Yeah the thought of her being with someone else is horrible. Really horrible. But I remember when we were dating, I wasn't an insecure person, and when we broke up, I remember the thought of her with someone else was the worst thing. I hated it. I remember getting so nervous about it that my hands began to shake. But now, I don't feel that. I still love her. But i'm not scared anymore. But I still do want to be with her. I think it is to do with being needy. I used to be needy, and now i'm not... I don't need her, I want her... and i think that is an important distinction.

 

BUT the main thing i can see about this is this:

 

I agree with her in many ways. We were never going to get back together and just not go back to how we were, all serious. I think it was too serious for both of us. And she realised that, so much so that as soon as we got back together, she got scared off again, and did what she knew would change things, pulled another guy. I think for both of us, being like this is the only way we could make anything work again...

[northstar1]

ok, well I have seen on here how people write to ask for advice, and they just want someone to say 'it's ok, you will get back with him/her, don't worry, don't cry, it's all going to be fine, you will live happily ever after etc etc etc'... and I know why you might think i sound like i'm in denial...

 

I don't know what I want. I'm 26, but I'm still at college. I like this girl, I really do, but I have never allowed myself to see it going any further than the summer, we are both back here after the summer, so who knows, but i never allowed myself to see it as long term...the fact she is 19... it is a massive fact, and I like her enough to know she needs to meet other guys in order to grow as a person, and, not entirely cleverly, I have told her that. One of the main things people said to her when we were dating, girls who said i was the best bf they knew, was that she wouldn't realise how great I was until she met someone else... sure she would have a honeymoon period, you always do, but in the long term, I think she would realise how good i was for her.

 

I don't know where I thought our relationship was going. But all I know, was when she told me about kissing the guy on wednesday night, after we had slept together on wednesday afternoon, my main reason for being upset wasn't the guy, it was what she said about me before. I honestly didn't care about her kissing a guy while drunk. It feels weird to admit that, but it is true. I don't know, I know it is a minefield, part of me feels if we were casual, she would hate it as she would realise that i was attractive to other girls and she would start getting jealous. Part of me feels that if i said ok go for it, in many ways she wouldn't, she told me the only reason she has done what she has done is to try and get over me.

 

Yeah the thought of her being with someone else is horrible. Really horrible. But I remember when we were dating, I wasn't an insecure person, and when we broke up, I remember the thought of her with someone else was the worst thing. I hated it. I remember getting so nervous about it that my hands began to shake. But now, I don't feel that. I still love her. But i'm not scared anymore. But I still do want to be with her. I think it is to do with being needy. I used to be needy, and now i'm not... I don't need her, I want her... and i think that is an important distinction.

 

BUT the main thing i can see about this is this:

 

I agree with her in many ways. We were never going to get back together and just not go back to how we were, all serious. I think it was too serious for both of us. And she realised that, so much so that as soon as we got back together, she got scared off again, and did what she knew would change things, pulled another guy. I think for both of us, being like this is the only way we could make anything work again...

 

If you had met this girl now, and knowing she is 19 and doesn't know what she wants, and that very few relationships last at 19, then I think you could pull off the casual dating idea. If you had nothing invested emotionally with her, then you might be able to realize she might need to date others. You'd go into it with your eyes open and realize it is what it is.

 

However, since you already have an emotional connection, and a history with her, it's going to be incredibly hard to now downgrade things to casual. You will have feelings involved, and you'll be constantly evaluating things to the past. It gets incredibly complicated.

[EthanH]

the thing is, when we got back together even momentarily... she hated it when i mentioned another girl... and she is a jealous person anyway... so i think if we did the casual thing... she would see me with someone else and that would give her the drive to realise what she was missing...

[TaraMaiden]

She's barely out of childhood and far too young to be committing to a single solid relationship. She needs to mature and gain some Life Experience. Needs a few curve-balls to blindside her and shake her up a bit. Right now, all she wants is to be young, have fun and do what she wants.

And I can see her point.

 

I think you're probably way too intense and serious for her.

You're 7 years older, for goodness' sake!

You may well be ready to settle into a comfortable relationship, but she is nowhere near that level, and even if she did agree to a committed relationship with you right now I hate to say it, but chances are she would change canoes midstream at some point.

because she needs to gain maturity, know-how and wisdom. She needs to find out what she wants, and you telling her you are good for her - inferring that in fact, you'd be better than anyone else - is frankly, arrogant.

 

Needy? Yes, I'm sorry, you are.

 

You may think there's a difference between need and want, and sure, there is. But that doesn't stop you wanting her AND being needy as well.

By virtue of the number of threads you've posted in the past few days, I'd say you are being needy.

I think you need to focus on finding someone more your age, of your maturity and with the same objective.

Because all things considered - She doesn't want to be.

[northstar1]

the thing is, when we got back together even momentarily... she hated it when i mentioned another girl... and she is a jealous person anyway... so i think if we did the casual thing... she would see me with someone else and that would give her the drive to realise what she was missing...

 

maybe. but at what cost? do you want a relationship based on game playing, because that what it would be.

 

and on the other side, what will you feel if she begins seeing/sleeping with other guys?

[EthanH]

out of everyone on here...'taramaiden' you are the only one who has replied like this. I'm not sure if you are somehow bitter about something which has happened to you. You don't even know her but you can speak for her... the best piece of advice people on here can give is to speak about their own experiences... if people want to do what they want, they will...I wasn't really asking for advice as such, more just personal experiences. The reason I have posted so many threads on here is, well yes i'm bothered by it, but I also have a broken leg from playing rugby so i have to sit here and being online is one of the only things I can do, and frankly, most of the people on here have given good, supportive advice. The age thing makes no difference. She even admitted to me she doesn't want to hook up with other guys, she has told all of her friends this, she has said she still loves me and she has told me when she tells me she doesn't want to be with me, it is only because she is trying to convince herself and me, why would she need to convince if she was so sure? There is a fine line between arrogant and confident, i think i'm the latter. I know I was a good bf to her. Everyone says they see that, and most of them are people who wouldn't tell me that if they didn't believe that.

 

Thanks for your pearls of wisdom, please if you are going to reply, put something which is constructive and isn't fishing around into how you think she feels...

[monkeymaid]

here you go ethan

 

 

i want you to read just this thread and tell me how many times you have references her feelings and what she is thinknig and what she wants and how she means this and how she needs that.

 

 

you are in denial. ...i want you to take a look from a selfish point of view for a minute. if you werent in denial, then you would be coming of a personal center of emotion. you are coming from a skewed center of emotion. your thoughts are all about her. i have only heard you mention your needs and desires a miniscule amount of time. do you have other desires outside of her that light your fire? ...we dont know because you only tell us about her, not about the things you are doing to make yourself better.

 

have you defended yourself or sought to put yourself in the best possible position so tht you can live your life to its fullest?? no, you keep defensding this girl.

 

man, i know how much you are in love with this girl. im 26 also and in college. i finish junior college this year and have uni next year. i am madly in love with my ex still as well. actually, i live in los angeles, i just woke up and sat in bed becasue i woke up to a dream of my ex. then i cried from 6:45 till 7:30. i hurt BAD still. its been 2 months, and i still want to see her gorgeous face when i wake up every morning. in fact, i could probably manipulate, deceive, and twist any notion of the truth, and i could probably go get her back, but the reality of the situation remanes that its not healthy for me, and she really needs to go figure herself out. nothing will work if its all forced.

 

it just seems like you are forcing it. ...if you were really so sure, you wouldnt be here asking questions, and discussing. if we didnt relate, understand or care, we wouldnt be here writing to you.

 

a wise man told me once "if you have to ask the question, its becasue you are afraid your answer is right"

 

a lot of us will stay here and write to you for the next few months just becasue we know what you are going thorugh, know what you are feeling, have been there, and we are willing to be here for you. ...granted this is words in the internet, and we are all strangers (most of us), but that is the beauty. we are completely unbiased, and can share our own storeis. if you relate, cool, if not, heres another perspective.

 

the long and short of it is, you are going to make all of the final decisions. if you want to try go ahead. let us know how it goes.

[EthanH]

wow. Thank you Monkeymaid!

 

that is the best reply I have had on here. It was honest. It didn't just tell me what I wanted to hear, and it really helped! I guess what I want to hear is that it is ok to be gutted at the moment, and that there are others who are feeling similar things to me atm (i know there obviously are, but at the moment, i feel so alone, none of my friends seem to understand, so much so that I don't bother speaking to them, and most of them I never have. I guess speaking on here helps as I can speak without caring that they know her and that it might impact her relationship with them etc etc)

 

I do have my own interests at heart. But I always go into things with my heart on my sleeve. I remember the first few months I started dating this girl, I held back so much, so much so that she couldn't take it. And until we got back together, i was doing ok, I was moving forward, then she gave me a glimmer of hope and all the things I was doing before, all the interests I took back up, all the ambition i had which excited me, just seems unimportant.

[Ilovecake]

Moving backwards never works in a relationship. Relationships are meant to evolve not devolve. I mean why even bother doing that? If you went through with this idea of an open relationship would you be willing to comfortable sit around and chat with her about the guy she went out with the night before maybe even woke up next to that morning? Would that work for me? Never, not in a million years.

[Ilovecake]

ok so i'm putting this from her side... please feel free to critique this.

 

So she basically last week went back on all of what she had done previously. She went back on everything she had said, everything she had worked for, in order to get over me.

 

I think, in her head, she wants to still be with me, but she doesn't want the serious chat, it isn't that she doesn't want to be with me, or that she wants anyone else. She just doesn't want the times when we sit there and talk about everything, the future, why we did this or that, how strongly we feel etc etc. She wants to have fun, but she wants to have fun with me. And she wants to be sure about me. At the moment, she can't do that, because she knows I'm always going to be there.

 

I think her thinking, her plan (she always has a plan)... was to be close to me... she said she really valued that, but for it not to be serious at the start, because she was scared of us getting back into the serious mode which we had before. I don't think she meant to kiss a guy. And I don't think she even would have told me as it mattered so little to her. You can say it did, and that she still made the choice, but I know when i have had drunken kisses with girls, they have meant nothing. So I think she wanted to see if this could work, if we could have relaxed fun with each other, no stress, and kinda get back to how it was when we first met each other...

 

You're not putting it from her side you're putting if from what YOU ASSUME her side is. You're guessing what she is thinking and I bet you're 99% wrong. Stop reading between the lines, she's completely manipulating you because she knows you're weak and she can get an ego boost from that.

[TaraMaiden]

out of everyone on here...'taramaiden' you are the only one who has replied like this. I'm not sure if you are somehow bitter about something which has happened to you.

well there you go.

I'm a TILISI girl. I'm afraid that I speak bluntly. Admittedly at times it's got my wrist slapped, but on other occasions, it hasn't. So I just stick with what I know and shoot from the hip.

And trust me, I'm not bitter about anything, truly I'm not. I'm actually quite a serene and contented person.

 

You don't even know her but you can speak for her

I haven't spoken for her at all. I've responded according to the information about her, you've posted. I used to be a 19-year old girl (so I think I have you at a disadvantage there....) and I'm thinking from that mindset....

 

the best piece of advice people on here can give is to speak about their own experiences... if people want to do what they want, they will...I wasn't really asking for advice as such, more just personal experiences. The reason I have posted so many threads on here is, well yes i'm bothered by it, but I also have a broken leg from playing rugby so i have to sit here and being online is one of the only things I can do, and frankly, most of the people on here have given good, supportive advice.

So you're not looking for advice, but people have given good supportive advice...

have you taken any of it?

And please tell me what of my advice is neither good nor supportive? I may have been blunt,but that doesn't make me wrong.... does it?

 

The age thing makes no difference. She even admitted to me she doesn't want to hook up with other guys, she has told all of her friends this, she has said she still loves me and she has told me when she tells me she doesn't want to be with me, it is only because she is trying to convince herself and me, why would she need to convince if she was so sure?

Are you asking me or is that a hypothetical question?

 

There is a fine line between arrogant and confident, i think i'm the latter. I know I was a good bf to her. Everyone says they see that, and most of them are people who wouldn't tell me that if they didn't believe that.

It's one thing to be told that by others, it's quite another to give the girl that opinion of yourself. In this, I can speak from experience. I had a guy, many moons ago (I'm 53, by the way) who told me how good he would be for me, and how much I'd wish I was with him instead of others....That really irritated me, because he was basically bringing my own judgement into question, and telling me I didn't know for myself. basically, that comment says "You have no idea what is good for you, because you have no sense of discernment. I know better than you."

Now - like you - I'm sure he meant it with the best will in the world. It still rubbed me up the wrong way. And as it turns out, he was wrong.

In my situation, I DID go out with him, and it very nearly killed me.

 

Thanks for your pearls of wisdom, please if you are going to reply, put something which is constructive and isn't fishing around into how you think she feels...

Well, when you stop fishing, I'll stop taking the bait.

[Ilovecake]

the thing is, when we got back together even momentarily... she hated it when i mentioned another girl... and she is a jealous person anyway... so i think if we did the casual thing... she would see me with someone else and that would give her the drive to realise what she was missing...

 

That's absolutely irrational and insane. If that were the case then why isn't this happening already? I mean go get laid and then tell her all about it, see how fast she runs back to you.