Disclosure, datclosure

[JustJoe]

As a relatively new poster , I've been on many threads that deal with infidelity, and the posts always seem to get back to the subject of whether or not to disclose the affair to the betrayed spouse or SO. In order to clear the air, and give everybody a chance to go on record as to their opinion of this question, I'm starting this thread. I would like any poster, to give their opinion, and the reason for it. I also want everybody to be Civil and respectful, when rebutting another poster's ideas. I think that we can all act like adults, even when opposed in principle. So..... What is your take on this issue. 1) full disclosure 2) partial disclosure 3) delayed disclosure, or 4) Non-disclosure. If you have been involved in an affair as WS, OM/OW, BS, please say so. There is NO wrong answer. Thanks in advance, This would be very helpful to me.

[OFGnomore]

As a relatively new poster , I've been on many threads that deal with infidelity, and the posts always seem to get back to the subject of whether or not to disclose the affair to the betrayed spouse or SO. In order to clear the air, and give everybody a chance to go on record as to their opinion of this question, I'm starting this thread. I would like any poster, to give their opinion, and the reason for it. I also want everybody to be Civil and respectful, when rebutting another poster's ideas. I think that we can all act like adults, even when opposed in principle. So..... What is your take on this issue. 1) full disclosure 2) partial disclosure 3) delayed disclosure, or 4) Non-disclosure. If you have been involved in an affair as WS, OM/OW, BS, please say so. There is NO wrong answer. Thanks in advance, This would be very helpful to me.

 

Full disclosure, and generally the sooner the better. Me: xMOW. Read my history, I ended the A with a MM in 9/08, disclosed to H in 12/08. The only way for me to live a life with integrity, is to do that, LIVE it, not just talk about it. I had everything to lose and did lose. Friends, respect in the community, etc. My H told many people to humilate me and xMM. Would I disclose again? Knowing the outcome? A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y!!! I would never have another affair again though, for sure. I was even talked out of confessing by my therapist. For me it took, "GrowingTFU", and owning my poor choices like an adult. Suffering so much loss, either can make you grow or push you back into immaturity and I was not going to personally suffer and cause so much suffering to others and be the same immature idiot. To read about and see all the mulitple cheating that goes on is really sad. But we're all on different paths I suppose and some will go their grave being an a**hole, applies to both men and women.

[Eeyore79]

My ex was cheating on his girlfriend with me - I hasten to add that I did not know he had a girlfriend, he was lying to me too! I chose not to reveal the affair to her because I still have to work with this guy occasionally, and I could do without the hassle of him avoiding me, or making me feel uncomfortable, or bad-mouthing me to other colleagues, or putting naked photos of me on the internet, etc.

 

In a different situation where I was not afraid of him trying to retaliate, I would probably have revealed the affair to his girlfriend.

[crazycatlady]

As a relatively new poster , I've been on many threads that deal with infidelity, and the posts always seem to get back to the subject of whether or not to disclose the affair to the betrayed spouse or SO. In order to clear the air, and give everybody a chance to go on record as to their opinion of this question, I'm starting this thread. I would like any poster, to give their opinion, and the reason for it. I also want everybody to be Civil and respectful, when rebutting another poster's ideas. I think that we can all act like adults, even when opposed in principle. So..... What is your take on this issue. 1) full disclosure 2) partial disclosure 3) delayed disclosure, or 4) Non-disclosure. If you have been involved in an affair as WS, OM/OW, BS, please say so. There is NO wrong answer. Thanks in advance, This would be very helpful to me.

 

 

If he could have had the affair without it affecting us - the guilt ate him up and was physically making him sick - without my having a hint something was wrong and without directly lying to me - I flat out asked if he slept with her and he lied - then I would say without a doubt, no disclosure. I would have been much happier not knowing.

 

I don't personally believe full disclosure is always right. I don't think most people though can act normal, keep it from affecting the main relationship, and not outright lie about it when asked. Personally, the lying is what hurt to most. Because it made me feel like they thought I was stupid.

 

That said, very few affairs can be conducted in such a way you can be sure they won't ever some out.

 

CCL

[You Go Girl]

crazycatlady--You can't have it both ways. First you say, keep me in the dark. Then you say--lying to me insulted my intelligence.

So which way do you want it? Respecting your intelligence, or insulting it? Because what you say, says that you want both of those simultaneously.

 

I'm not sure of the anniversary date of my sleeping on the couch, but I think it's about a year now. I'm not the type to write it down, keep score, etc.

Is he having an affair? Maybe at this point it doesn't matter anymore. But, I haven't asked him either. I don't see going back, so I don't see reconciliation as possible. And this is perhaps one of the only situations in which I can see an affair not being disclosed. I couched it the last year purposely to detach emotionally in a relationship that was hurting me although I loved him more passionately that I have ever loved. And no, I'm not having an affair. Although a friend gave me a hug a few days ago, and wow, I haven't been touched at all in a year, and it felt very nice.

Bottom line--if you're going to stay with someone, then disclosure is a must. You can't live with someone, loving them, with a huge monkey on your back. And if you can do that--then there's something wrong with you, because you still don't understand what intimacy is.

If you're going to leave, it really doesn't seem necessary to disclose anything, unless, you've hurt the person you are going to leave, and you should tell them to free them of guilt that they may feel because the relationship is ending, guilt that really belongs on your shoulders, not theirs.

[JustJoe]

I should have added 5) immediate disclosure and say that this also goes for ONS, too.

[Samantha0905]

I think not telling is fine. It's probably better left unsaid. Sometimes telling helps things. It depends. I just found this interview in Time and posted it in another thread. It probably should have been put here:

 

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1820942,00.html

[BB07]

There is no right answer, it depends on each individual situation and the variables involved.

[seibert253]

You can't cleanse half your soul and be truly clean.

 

As a BS, it was expose early and expose often. This was to help me, not her. Wasn't done out of spite or anger, but hurt did play and part in it, I'll admit that.

 

Exposure to everyone and anyone was actually part of my fog busting plan. I knew the only thing to bring back reality was if her fantacy world of the loving, committed wife and mother came crashing down, and the truth was exposed. She was feeding her friends and family a load of sh%t. Once they learned the truth, and started distancing themselves from her, she soon learned she was all alone in this mess and no one approved of what she was doing.

Didn't take long for the WTFAID 2x4 to strike. Bam, fog lifted.

 

Everyone is different, some work well with limited or no exposure, but in my case I knew there was no way my WW would admit to being wrong and end her A, without my scorched earth approach.

 

Don't recommend it for everyone, but it worked well for me.

[Owl]

I don't believe that you can build a true, strong relationship on a foundation of hidden information/lies by ommission.

 

And how do you heal, how do you move on without forgiveness?

 

You can't forgive yourself until the person you've harmed/wronged has forgiven you.

 

They can't forgive you if you continue the betrayal by continuing the lies.

 

A lie by ommission is still a lie.

 

By not telling...you're still not being faithful to your spouse. You're avoiding the true consequences of your action...and you're avoiding the responsibility of actually putting forth the hard work needed to rebuild and recover your marriage.

 

You're not TRULY working on rebuilding your marriage of the damage done by your affair if you're still lying to your partner about it.

 

Full disclosure. I would agree that not every marriage survives when it occurs...but I'd say that those that DO survive will eventually become a more healthy, balanced, solid relationship than those in which the truth is never revealed.

[JustJoe]

Sam, I disagree completely with the author, Ms. Kirshenbaum? Her answer is completely contradictory and has no basis of factual evidence. Her "experiences', only reflect her bias. Totally subjective without even the atempt at even-handed, objective research. I believe in telling the truth, but I don't believe in telling the truth, WTF is that? She is a waste of time.

[Samantha0905]

Sam, I disagree completely with the author, Ms. Kirshenbaum? Her answer is completely contradictory and has no basis of factual evidence. Her "experiences', only reflect her bias. Totally subjective without even the atempt at even-handed, objective research. I believe in telling the truth, but I don't believe in telling the truth, WTF is that? She is a waste of time.

 

I haven't read her book (s?) yet, however, I do enjoy reading a variety of opinions. There's probably something to be learned in all of them.

[crazycatlady]

crazycatlady--You can't have it both ways. First you say, keep me in the dark. Then you say--lying to me insulted my intelligence.

So which way do you want it? Respecting your intelligence, or insulting it? Because what you say, says that you want both of those simultaneously.

 

The lying insulted my intelligence because I KNEW something was up. I knew he was lying to me. If he had been acting like before, going on as usual, sex remained as frequent, he wasn't sick from the deception and a load of other things, then I would rather have never found out...I think.

 

That said....We are in a better place now. Our marriage even a month out of dday is far better. There is an openness that is now here that wasn't there before. I have a greater understand of him and his needs. He has a greater understanding of me and my needs. And the openness is better.

 

See this is why I'm in two minds over this....one hand, I would rather have not known and been told, and maybe the understanding of each other could have come about a different way.

 

On the other hand, things are better for it. I don't know if they would have been if he came home and confessed immediately. It certainly would have been a harder road to travel. This is why I don't have a hard and fast rule on what should be done and how it should be handled. Every situation is different.

 

CCL

[Owl]

This is why I don't have a hard and fast rule on what should be done and how it should be handled. Every situation is different.

 

CCL

 

Can you give an example of where you feel it's clearly, absolutely obvious that telling shouldn't occur, but the marriage should still continue?

 

The only time I advocate not telling is when the marriage is over anyway. Or, if the BS is so abusive that telling is life-threatening...but the marriage should end in that case anyway, because the danger of it happening at any point later is the same as telling up front.

 

When else is not telling good for everyone in the marriage?

[Spark1111]

I believe full disclosure is the only way to heal a marriage from infidelity and here is why:

 

When DDay strikes, a BS has two options; to try and forgive, or not. If the marriage, on the whole, was solid and loving, a BS's wants to forgive initially, WANTS to work on the marriage IF the WS is truly remorseful.

 

If over time, the WS omits, manipulates, minimizes the affair to the BS, the continual destroying of trust will probably be the last nail in the coffin of the marriage, IMHO.

 

It's a one shot deal, and unfortunately, many WSs do not get that; they do not understand that at this crucial point, their shame, guilt, pain, and trying to spare the BS additional pain by withholding info, CANNOT be more important than the BS's pain or the BS's need to know.

 

As for the WS, the burden of holding onto secrets is emotionally distancing and prevents true intimacy with your marital partner, as all secrets do.

 

I told my former WS that every omission he did to spare me additional pain caused me to pack a bag. Why? Because it is a common BS's opinion that the ommission was done to A) selfishly prevent the WS from having to face our pain; or to preserve the wonderful memories of the affair/AP.

 

He was aghast at that. But that's what it feels like when a WS holds onto their secrets.

 

Fess up....quickly and answer any question asked; and answer it patiently again until we can process it in our PTSD state and move on from it.

 

Read. Educate yourself. Get professional guidance through IC and MC. But do it. There is a 2 to 5 year window to successfully reconcile.

 

Image your spouse forgives the affair, but cannot forgive your trickle truthing afterwards?

 

How sad is that to know you blew it.

[crazycatlady]

Can you give an example of where you feel it's clearly, absolutely obvious that telling shouldn't occur, but the marriage should still continue?

 

The only time I advocate not telling is when the marriage is over anyway. Or, if the BS is so abusive that telling is life-threatening...but the marriage should end in that case anyway, because the danger of it happening at any point later is the same as telling up front.

 

When else is not telling good for everyone in the marriage?

 

I can only say from my personal feelings because I won't speak for anyone else. If my H had slept with her, not acted differently afterwards, it was a ONS (which he had been hoping it would be) and what was done was done, then I would rather not be told.

 

But I am conflicted about that too because I like where we are now, as opposed to where we were a year ago. But I knew almost immediately what he had done. I chose to believe the lie for another 8 months before I finally had to snoop due to his behavior. If he hadn't been acting all weird, I probably would have continued to accept the one lie and been fine with it.

 

If the cheater can manage not to let their own guilt ruin what is between them and their spouse, can let go without disclosure, nothing was brought back or sent with (stds and pregnancy), there is no way someone else will find out (that one is harder)....then I think telling might not be the best thing. MIGHT.

 

Like I said, I'm conflicted over this and toss it back and forth in my mind. Its also one of the few pieces of marriage advice I received from my mom. If you have cheat, don't tell simply to ease your guilt. You made the choice, you live with it and learn to deal with it don't hurt the other person because you screwed up and you feel guilty.

 

CCL

[Owl]

I can only say from my personal feelings because I won't speak for anyone else. If my H had slept with her, not acted differently afterwards, it was a ONS (which he had been hoping it would be) and what was done was done, then I would rather not be told.

 

And given the terms of your marriage with him, I can understand that. EXCEPT...the one person that was off limits was HER...and he specifically, intentionally had to go THERE.

 

But I am conflicted about that too because I like where we are now, as opposed to where we were a year ago. But I knew almost immediately what he had done. I chose to believe the lie for another 8 months before I finally had to snoop due to his behavior. If he hadn't been acting all weird, I probably would have continued to accept the one lie and been fine with it.

 

That's not uncommon. I suspected my wife's EA almost before it started, literally. But I waited two months until I took action...because I didn't want to believe that she could actually cheat on me. Many of us BS's go through similar steps. Most can sense that "something" is wrong, but either can't figure out what, or tend to overlook what the cause is.

 

If the cheater can manage not to let their own guilt ruin what is between them and their spouse, can let go without disclosure, nothing was brought back or sent with (stds and pregnancy), there is no way someone else will find out (that one is harder)....then I think telling might not be the best thing. MIGHT.

 

I'd suspect that someone who was capable of this was so emtionally distant from their spouse already that the marriage was already far from healthy...and probably on its way to end anyway. That kind of compartmentalization is typical of someone who is VERY self-centered...and that in itself is a recipe for disaster in marriage.

 

Like I said, I'm conflicted over this and toss it back and forth in my mind. Its also one of the few pieces of marriage advice I received from my mom. If you have cheat, don't tell simply to ease your guilt. You made the choice, you live with it and learn to deal with it don't hurt the other person because you screwed up and you feel guilty.

CCL

 

 

I'd disagree with your mom, because of the reasons I'd stated previously in this thread.

 

Just because one partner made the choice, that doesn't give them the right to have the sole decision in whether or not the marriage should continue given the affair. It's not selfish to tell...it's selfish to withold the information and deny your spouse the opportunity to forgive you, or end the marriage.

 

Selfish is avoiding responsibilty and consequences for your choices...revealing the truth to give your spouse the chance to participate in the choices to be made isn't selfish.

 

My take at least.

[seibert253]

I don't believe that you can build a true, strong relationship on a foundation of hidden information/lies by ommission.

 

And how do you heal, how do you move on without forgiveness?

 

You can't forgive yourself until the person you've harmed/wronged has forgiven you.

 

They can't forgive you if you continue the betrayal by continuing the lies.

 

A lie by ommission is still a lie.

 

By not telling...you're still not being faithful to your spouse. You're avoiding the true consequences of your action...and you're avoiding the responsibility of actually putting forth the hard work needed to rebuild and recover your marriage.

 

You're not TRULY working on rebuilding your marriage of the damage done by your affair if you're still lying to your partner about it.

 

Full disclosure. I would agree that not every marriage survives when it occurs...but I'd say that those that DO survive will eventually become a more healthy, balanced, solid relationship than those in which the truth is never revealed.

 

Once again, Owl shows why he's the wise one.

 

How many times have we read about TT, minimizing, gaslighting, and the devistation they cause. Reopening closed wounds are more painful than the initial cut.

 

It's not the crime, but the coverup.

 

In my instance, I think the lying about the A was more devistating than the original infedelity. I would have healed much quicker if I got the whole truth from the get go. I would probably be farther along with the trust issues if the truth came first.

[silktricks]

Though I could definitely have done without the pain, I don't think a marriage that has suffered an affair can really get "fixed" if both partners aren't aware of all of the situations on both sides.

 

There were obviously some grave issues for an affair to have happened. If the WS doesn't tell the BS about the affair, but only works on the problems that in their opinion led to the affair, then IMO not all of the cards are on the table, and you're not going to truly resolve the problems for both partners.

 

It was my experience that talking about all things that bothered both of us, we managed to resolve the real issues in our marriage. If we had only dealt with the issues that led to his transgression (what I was doing), but didn't ever deal with the issues that led to my problems (what he was doing), we wouldn't have had a fixed marriage at all. Had he not admitted to his infidelity, then he also would have little reason to pay attention to my issues - and I would probably have had little reason to voice them.

 

So... I vote for full disclosure for all transgressions, including a ONS that has zero chance of ever being repeated. (Though my opinion seems to change back and forth, and I believe that I've stated the exact opposite of this stance on more than one occasion... ) Which just goes to show that sometimes the pain of knowing is greater than the joy of a good marriage, and sometimes vice versa...

Edited April 19, 2010 by silktricks

[StoptheDrama]

As a relatively new poster , I've been on many threads that deal with infidelity, and the posts always seem to get back to the subject of whether or not to disclose the affair to the betrayed spouse or SO. In order to clear the air, and give everybody a chance to go on record as to their opinion of this question, I'm starting this thread. I would like any poster, to give their opinion, and the reason for it. I also want everybody to be Civil and respectful, when rebutting another poster's ideas. I think that we can all act like adults, even when opposed in principle. So..... What is your take on this issue. 1) full disclosure 2) partial disclosure 3) delayed disclosure, or 4) Non-disclosure. If you have been involved in an affair as WS, OM/OW, BS, please say so. There is NO wrong answer. Thanks in advance, This would be very helpful to me.

 

Me: xOW

ONS - full disclosure may not be necessary depending on the circumstances. If the WS is truly remorseful, has learned from their mistake and is taking steps to ensure it never happens again, full disclosure may cause the BS unnecessary pain.

LTA - totally different story. Full disclosure is necessary or I firmly believe it will happen again. LTA's require an inordinate amount of lying, betrayal, deceit, and manipulation in order to survive. If the WS has endured no consequences from the LTA, there is nothing to prevent them from doing it again. My xMM is a perfect example of this - it is now several months since I ended the A yet, despite the fact that I have not given him any encouragement, he continues to fish. If he were truly remorseful and working on his issues and M, he would not try to restart an A with me.

[anne1707]

As a former WS who has fully disclosed, I really cannot see how reconciliation would be possible without such disclosure. I could have not told but there would always have been a shadow over us (and that is one hell of an understatement). If I had not told, then I would always be having to watch what I said, implied etc. I would be continuing the affair even if I was no longer seeing the ex-OM. I would also not have been allowing my H to make a fully informed decision. Where would the respect have been if I had restricted his ability to make such a decision?

 

It hurt like hell to tell him. It hurt him a lot more to hear it. But it was the only way we could ever possibly have addressed the problems in our marriage.

[jennie-jennie]

As a relatively new poster , I've been on many threads that deal with infidelity, and the posts always seem to get back to the subject of whether or not to disclose the affair to the betrayed spouse or SO. In order to clear the air, and give everybody a chance to go on record as to their opinion of this question, I'm starting this thread. I would like any poster, to give their opinion, and the reason for it. I also want everybody to be Civil and respectful, when rebutting another poster's ideas. I think that we can all act like adults, even when opposed in principle. So..... What is your take on this issue. 1) full disclosure 2) partial disclosure 3) delayed disclosure, or 4) Non-disclosure. If you have been involved in an affair as WS, OM/OW, BS, please say so. There is NO wrong answer. Thanks in advance, This would be very helpful to me.

 

I should have added 5) immediate disclosure and say that this also goes for ONS, too.

 

I have always believed in immediate and full disclosure, and I have also lived by that my entire life in regard to my SOs.

 

Then I stumble upon my MM. I demand immediate and full disclosure of him too, and he submits to this - when it comes to our relationship, not to his relationship with his wife.

 

I have had to realize that he functions differently than any man I have ever had a relationship with before. In his case I believe in delayed disclosure. Still full disclosure, but delayed. He needs to figure out what he is about first, without the impact of a Dday.

[Owl]

Delayed disclosure?!?! Haven't you been with him for four years???

 

How delayed can you truly accept and honestly believe that this is actually going to happen?

 

If he's not told in four years...what's going to prompt him to tell anytime in the next decade?

 

See, this is an example of a bad compromise of your personal standards to justify continuing the affair.

 

You're SAYING that you'd only accept full, but delayed disclosure.

 

But your ACTIONS tell him (and everyone else) that you're really accepting no disclosure.

 

He's not going to change until something FORCES a change.

 

Not bashing you here...just wanted to say that I don't see things quite adding up. I think you're seeing what you WANT to see...and accepting less than you would to try to hold on to him for as long as you can.

[jennie-jennie]

Delayed disclosure?!?! Haven't you been with him for four years???

 

How delayed can you truly accept and honestly believe that this is actually going to happen?

 

If he's not told in four years...what's going to prompt him to tell anytime in the next decade?

 

See, this is an example of a bad compromise of your personal standards to justify continuing the affair.

 

You're SAYING that you'd only accept full, but delayed disclosure.

 

But your ACTIONS tell him (and everyone else) that you're really accepting no disclosure.

 

He's not going to change until something FORCES a change.

 

Not bashing you here...just wanted to say that I don't see things quite adding up. I think you're seeing what you WANT to see...and accepting less than you would to try to hold on to him for as long as you can.

 

Ah, but I am not the one in a relationship with his wife.

 

What I am telling him is that in his relationship with me I only accept full and immediate disclosure.

[Owl]

Fair enough. I know that we don't agree, but there's no value in going further down the rabbit hole.